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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 1, Episode 16 · 2 years ago

15. You Have My Sword, and my Shield

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

All right, what is up everybody? Welcome back to tag team. I your host, Riley Holmer, joined by my good friend JW, crew while on location. What's up? Aw Hey, how's it going, Riley? Dude? So you're out in Detroit, Michigan Right now. What's going on? I am in the D Detroit city, motown, to help with a diversity conference. There's a yearly conference of Orchestra's musicians that is looking to promote diversity in music and so and was involved about. Well, this is her third year and then I joined in last year and basically I just run, you know, a lot of the production stuff, so making sure that the speakers come on and off. Yeah, super cool, the particular ball rooms, making sure everybody is all miked up for what they need to be, making sure that just the event run smoothly, kind of doing all the behind the scene stuff. So I enjoyed it last year, so I'd come back this year and you know, it pays. They put us up in a little hotel here and it's all pretty nice. Yeah, that is really nice. If longtime listeners right might remember that JW attended this last year as well. So we're actually just talking about that before the cast. I was like, wait, I swear I remember you doing something like yeah, I know, because it's like it just feels, I don't know, it's the weird thing to say, like Hey, I'm a sending a diversity conference. That not that that's weird necessarily, it's just no, it's just like a distinct thing that you would remember someone saying. So right, or like that you wouldn't hear and enough conversations to like not remember upon hearing it again. Right. So, yeah, Super Cool, man. I think it's a noble cause as well. We were talking, I think last year we talked a little bit about like the underrepresentation and how that happens in music. So I appreciate that you're getting involved in that. Yeah, anyways, shift in focus, though, back to Pokemon. Sword and shield is just around the corner. We're recording this on Wednesday, the Fifth Sword and shield officially drops in retail stores that aren't like card stores, on the seventh here. I mean that's pretty insane if you think about it, or entering a whole new era of the game. TCGO is actually already updated with the rule, which is pretty entertaining because it's like this weird format that doesn't exist. Yeah, that's only on TCG. Oh, I've tried it. There was also that one before world's where they had like the free rotation world's format. Yeah, I'm not, I'm blanking on it, but this one is definitely, definitely bizarre. This one is really weird because like the pre rotation world's one is like whatever. I guess technically that's the thing, but like this one is like a rule that doesn't exist in the previous form. But you redically it could kind of help to stabilize the expand in metagame. I feel like there's not as much like shifting of decks in the expand of metagame, but probably not in standard. It just doesn't a lot of CHAOSO. I'm sure I have not played any ladder today, but I almost like I'm tempted to just to like see what's going on. Right, I would guess. Honestly, I would guess that's a lot of horror house meed too. Yeah, probably that's like the most portable deck from sword and shield that's been popular into the current standard. I think it is just a one V one, except there's no quick ball access. Yeah, or Marnie or Marnie, good point. Yeah, so, and I'm sure actually whore house is probably quite making quite a showing and expanded as well. Trev more melodic, probably kind of stuff. Really it's ugly, ugly head back in our lives. So cool. Yeah, I mean that's that's not really the point, though. I mean this format doesn't truly exist the context of any like tournament that you would go to, but it is a fun, little fun, I guess, Little Cork of tcg Oh that you could get your hands on if you play in the next twelve hours, I guess. But sorre shield is dropping and the the cards actually unlock on tcg out tomorrow, I believe, if you have pack codes on the system. JW, we've talked a little bit about sword and shield and what we're thinking going into this format. What it and you've actually played with Andrew as well this week on the tricky dam stream. So if you're interested, you can checked out those vods. What are the decks that you're currently most impressed by or the deck that you know? If you had a tournament this first Saturday of sword and shield, what would be the deck that you snap grab and take to it? Yeah, a hundred percent. I would take atpization. I think that deck is just format defining. Yeah, very, very strong. It can win against, I think, any style of deck. So what I mean by that is, like I think it can win by against one prize decks. I think it has pretty solid, I mean very solid, match up it's against tag team decks and especially...

...when a lot of these decks are needing to use GERACI to set up, they have all these other one prize texts in their decks, like absoll feon that kind of stuff. Marshadow, you can take a couple of easy prizes on one of those and then knock out a tag team and then all of a sudden the game is over. It just really has kind of this slow ramp up speed but a very like outlined definition of how long the game is going to last. You know. So if you attach first turn and then second turn you get your gx off with ATP, then you basically go turn three, knockout, turn for knockout, and then that's that's enough usually. Yeah. So it's like if you're the opposing deck, you have that one turn to gust up the ATP and knock it out. That has a one energy attached or like, you're probably losing unless you choose them with a reset stamp or something like that. But even then there are board positions that they can set up where they have just gx with their ATP and then they've set up to Zophan's and then you just can't do anything from mail. It really provides these almost unwinnable board states from turn, you know, two or three on, and that's very scary. Yeah, I think that's probably my favorite deck in the format, at least heading in as well. It's just it's obvious, I guess, that it's going to be a powerful archetype. You Got Zac in by itself is just a ridiculous card and pretty much every word on that card reads pretty good to me, so can't really complain about that. The attack is insane and with the addition of that ATP, I think is really what pushes that damage to the point where it really needs to be right. Like right. Thirty is good and it knocks out opposing zcn's, barring frying Panshnanigans, but to sixty, and especially in conjunction with like shrine and you know whatever else you could throw in in the mix, that is insane. That's exactly the kind of damage that you want to be doing every game, right, and you know it's got all sorts of acceleration between the metal saucer and Sacien's ability. So it's pretty easy to like. You know, you can focus in those two attachments on the ATP. And the thing about current ATPDX that we have time and time again we've criticized ATP and in current format, yeah, is that you can you throw up that to prize or three prize ATP with two energy you gx, and you say, well, don't knock this out because I need to use the attack. Well, I need to use the other attack, you know, to continue playing the game. So please don't knock this guy out. Right. The thing with the Zcen is you have all sorts of ways to recover your energy state, even if that ATP gets immediately knocked down. So you get all the benefits of ATP while still having these really powerful attackers, not to mention their two prize attackers. See, if you have to knock out two of them, well right, and that's that's it. Too. is like with the old ATP that played Keldo and your I mean you're bringing this point up exactly right. I mean it tried to. We saw like Xander's list was a little bit innovative because he played the counter gain as a way to just basically be that extra energy attachment. Now we have metal saucers, so it's really and the ability, so it's like really not out of the question to be able to build up to a zations very easily, very quickly, you know, and that is just something that ATP didn't have. It didn't really have a one shot potential either. So you were able to give the deck it was facing. You know, when you're playing it with the Keltial version last format, you are able to give them some time to like figure out routes to win or fide something. You know, you gave them at least a turn to like figure out, okay, can I get a plant down or can I get, you know, something? They had a turn to do something. Now it's all just like in your face. The man from the answer immediately right. And also like not to mention like you could power up is a seen in one turn, whereas counter gain is one colorless energy, which, yeah, you know that's good, but it's not too metal saucers and an attachment. I don't know, man that. And not to mention I think the thing that really pushes atps acent over the edge is I think no deck better like exemplifies how to take advantage of the first turn rule that currently exists better than ATPS acn. So, like all they really want is to attach and then they can use the aciensability draw three cards and maybe attached again, which that's a fantastic turn and with the way that turn one goes right now. So, yeah, it's just crazy, man like the benefit it gets from going first. The overall like Checkmate Board Scenarios, the prize trade that like quickly, quickly get out of hand if left on checked. I mean that's mentioned likes a seen one shots of peak aroun, even through resistance. I know it's greatly end like right. We a few other damage modifiers. There's that. There's that one tool card that gives you like ten extra...

...buff which is very vitality band is definitely relevanting us mew too. Like then you're hitting too said, I think shrine might just be the better card because it's a counter stadium. Yeah, but like if the if swell super popular, you could pull right, but if tells right. So so that's that's the other thing that I'm kind of getting to with the deck is that there's a lot of space to work with in terms of adding your own tex in and kind of making the list your own. That's another real reason that I like the deck. There are some lists out there that are kind of I would say, like Mewtwo is kind of this way where you pretty much have to play the same maybe like fifty six cards or so, and then maybe the last four cards you can mess with. But I think at deck, like ATPS option, you can play, you know, forty five cards that are pretty much there and then the last fifteen cards are pretty up to each individual player. So I think there are some things that you can do that, you know with that deck that can, you know, adapt to your local metagame right a lot more easily. So you call out like you can kind of customize ATPS AC in and make it your own and make it powerful in your own ways. What are some of the ways that you like to power up that deck and make it strong? What's the JW twist on Atpez as well? You saw it with Andrews, like we were thinking of you know one prize attackers. That would be good because we he originally started with a list that had to two of the Aurora Energy and one water energy to kind of take take advantage of like maybe a rooting force I gets played or something like that. But then I switched over to a four Aurora Energy version with, you know, the eight or nine metals. I forget the exact count. But then we are thinking, okay, we just need one, one energy attacker at the end of the game to like clean up a GERACI. We're thinking maybe, you know, Zaptos was our ultimate answer. I think you could probably go with something like the spear tomb would be good. You could play things like criagonal. So, like you know, it just kind of depends on how the metagame shift. So if you know, let's say, doll stalls very popular, criagonal makes a lot of sense. Let's say, you know, I don't know, that you're trying to hit bigger numbers than spirit to makes a lot of sense. Let's say you just want to consistent. One hundred and ten. Then I think you know is Aptos is always there for you. And then there's a lot of stuff that can still be explored. Then I'm very excited to explore. I think about things like Niiligo would be another one that comes to mind. Is just a one prize attacker. You know that that can do some pretty heavy damage. It takes a little bit more finagling with that, but that just goes to show that there are just things that we didn't think about out there. Another tech that I like for at psation that gets around probably its worst just general threat is channeler to get rid of any lot of oats shenanigans that could occur. I'm thinking a lot of os in like mew two might be a bit of an issue. A LOT EOS in any type of stall deck definitely is an issue. So we'll kind of see how the metagame forms at the Manta game of shapes and look for channel or to make its way into ATP I mean it's like a one card inclusion that just completely swings any deck that plays audios. Even the mewtwo lists are playing audios. I presume you know that that they have been for you. You what's that? What I mean? They have been forever, right, right, no, exactly exactly. But even heading into this new format, you know, a lot eos still is a fairly big threat and you know you have an answer for it, right. So, I I mean I never really really thought about playing Channeler, but as a card, as an option. How do you make the best use to as out of channeler when it's hard to find the supporters in this format, like at least one of particular supporters? How do you make the best use of channel or when it's hard to find one of supporters? I mean you have Geraci, right. So, like that's kind of the catch all for for that type of thing. So I would just say, you know, you got GERACI. Don't think too hard about it, I supprise. Suppose. I'm I'm not one to consider GERRACI an instant out to any one us. You don't. You don't need it the first turn. You just needed the turn that you want to ATP and which is the second year. Well, you can always zation. So, like you know, it's just it's tough to because if you're playing against a stall deck and they have a Loutios, then you have really a fairly long time. Like you, you have more turns to do things. So right, yeah, I mean I think there's like a mixture of things. I think it's probably best against all when you can afford to not use ATPGGX attack immediately. Again, stuff like mewtwo. I'm I'm not sure you'll be able to get it off in the way that you need to, at least very consistently. So I don't know. I have like mixed dealings on on like cards Le Channeler that are so...

...just unition on the purpose, I mean. And again, like if, if it does end up being a huge threat, like, let's say stalls, you know, an str archetype. It's your one archetype that a lot of people player and it's all over your local metagame. You can play too. You know, that's like. That's not like. It's not there were ATPIG ATPDX in this format that did play to channeler and the deck just has that space. Like sure. Again, those last like I'd say about fifteen cards. Literally play anything you want. Let them rip, man, let those channelers fly. That's what I'm saying. So, you know, I think we could go on about ATPS AC in for a long time. It's clearly a good deck. We don't need to sell it to anyone and we obviously both like it. Another deck that I think has gotten a lot of hype and also a little bit of controversy, is this mewtube Malamar archetype. Some people say it's like too inconsistent or not that powerful overall. Other people say that, you know, the combination of Marni and Horror House and Trevor Ores attack is just way too much for things to deal with. What is your opinion on the MEWTUBE Malamar archetype? It feels kind of good. I'm not going to lie. I think it's I think it's a valid deck. Is it something that I would play? Probably not. I would lean against it, but there are a lot of things that make me understand why somebody would play it. And if somebody comes up to me and says, Hey, I'm thinking about playing this deck for, you know, my challenge, my cup or even my regional, I wouldn't say not to it's not the deck that I love and ran it. I don't think the list that I played with Andrew was, you know, the way I would I would build the deck. That's not like a knock on Andrew, because I think his list was basically just the second place list from that foreign regional. But I would say the deck is very valid, has a lot of things going for it. You think of four house do you think of Trevor? You think of the one shot potential of the ULTERN ACROSMA? Those are the three standout performers, I think from the deck. If you can combine all that into one and make it consistent, which you have more consistency outs for the you know, the Malamarre, the incse with a quick ball. I think it's valid. I think it has a spot in the metagame and I honestly would put it somewhere between tier one and tier two. Now, if you saw my tier list video, you'll know, yeah, somewhere between tier one tier two. But I think it's very valid. So then, I guess the question I have for you is you call a valid deck. He wouldn't criticize anyone for playing it, but you also say that it isn't for you. So what would it take for that deck to cross that line and be good enough for you to consider to play it in an event? Um, that's a good question. So I just think that the inherent threat against it via the turn one rule, it's just very serious. You know, you don't get the benefit of extra draw through Zation you're forced to evolve your Malamars, which are just extremely important. So if you don't get enough in ways down on the first turn and you end up going first, like, it can just be kind of tough if your opponent is able to gust up your incas or, you know, snipe them or something. You know, if they're able to take them out before you can really get full effect that, that can be tough. Additionally, there are urns with trevnor that you go in and your opponent you know and Trevnor is your best attacker and you kind of need the TREVN or to stick. But there are times that it just doesn't. You know, you Marny your opponent something and you're like, okay, as long as I hit, you know, two of their cards, so you know they're only two good cards, then then I'll have a chance here. But then they either top deck or they you know, you don't hit the two and they have a draw out. That's very tough, I would say. Also, the strength of the consistency engines is just way better. So trevnoor is also just nerve to buy that. So what do I mean by that? Last format you saw a lot of tag call engines. You saw a lot of just lower in general x and this format now we're just seeing everything beat up. Everything's juiced. You know, it just feels like we hit puberty, like the format hit puberty and now are all gas. You know, it's just's really swell right now, and so the draw supporters are just that much better. So, as opposed to last format, where trevnor might have discarded, you know, your two best cards and then you're left with like a tag call and the tag calls. Best Card that could draw you out of it is getting a Cynthia and Kaitlyn. Well, now, you know, let's say you have another supporter and and it's a Marni or a magnolia or whatever. Either of those two are pretty good options all right, to you know, the best draw option of a tag call back,...

...which is Cynthia and Kaitlyn. So I think Trevnoor is a little bit nerve by just the juice of the format. You know, you could also have just a bunt, like you could have a quick ball on hand and then just we'll get it to denny. The consistency is way better. So trevnor is therefore less useful. Sure I think that's partially valid. I think that not necessarily the consistency is better. The draw cards are probably better. I don't know if like the counts of them are necessarily like higher or I think in some decks I think actually the ways to draw cards might even be lower, because you know tag hall is loosing out. You know where. So you're multiplying your outs if you have, like, for tag calls, bunch of Cyndia Caitlyn's and, you know, regular Synthias or something, whereas now decks are playing like, for for supporter line, and that's an have to get them through the game usually because if you're magnoliing, you're thinning your deck out incredibly quickly. So you know it's supporters is enough. But if you're geting disruptive constantly, how are you going to draw them? You know, poke gear accounts seem to be going down dramatically. Sure, I think there's like given take there, but nevertheless, you know, I I get what you're saying. Where there's a lot of stuff, your opponent can draw it and that makes them fine. I think custom catchers returning is also a big deal for Trevor No air. Yeah, so it's you know before if you trevor more and they have a great catcher in hand, you know they can discard their whole hand and play a great catcher and that's about it. But if they have a custom catcher in hand, they can play whatever other crappy card you them and custom catcher for three and now they have a Mangolia and draw ten cards in turn. So and and that's not I mean obviously the deck has other resources. So we think about whore house. That is very good. I mean not. I don't think like it's too good. People. I've seen a lot of hate for the whole house. I don't think it's like here good because of the inherent like badness of, you know, having to evolve Mount Mart like that like a weakness. But hore house is strength. I think they kind of even out and in a deck or in a format that's focused on big basics, I just feel like the whore house into a doc strategy isn't really going to work, you know, against Zatian decks or against ATPDX, like you're really asking for a lot there. I think to like having the altern acrossmas very good. However, again you're kind of countering yourself because you have to use de Dni's to set up. You may not be able to get three Malamar out, which is, I think, about optimal for being able to ont shot anything in the format via attachment and and attachment with the Malamars as well. So there are some good things, but they're like countered by the innate bad things for that. So it's kind of a given take. That's why I do feel like it is a valid choice. I don't like want to say to people that the DEX stocks. I just don't think it's the play for me because while there are strengths, they're counted out by the inherent weaknesses. Yeah, for sure. So one last big deck I want to hit on is actually another ZEC and deck. Some people are opting for a Lucario Mel metal route with your Sacans, where, instead of going for aggression and higher damage output, they try to slow their opponent down and remove energy from their board with the gxtack on the car me metal reduce the damage on the acns compound with the frying pan. What do you think about that as a as a strategy and is it valid? Is that optimal, or or is it just inferior? To an ATP version of zecan. I think it's good. I mean I just think Zatians so strong as a card and ATP does. I mean that's a very like Al gx attack. Taking thirty less damages is pretty good generally speaking. Lucari Membo, you mean? Or Yeah, Lukariam model? Yeah, exactly, but I like to have a little bit more control of my games. I feel like the Lucariam metal deck with Zation is just a little bit on the back foot. You kind of lose you can lose your footing if your opponent brings out something that you don't expect. So if they're able to one shot you out of nowhere, then that can be really bad for you because you're kind of relying on this tanking strategy right you know, if your opponent does something that you don't expect, then it can just be a little awkward. So I would prefer to be a little bit more in control. Being able to set up the checkmates scenarios is a lot easier with the atpzation deck than it is with the Lucario Mel Metal Deck and for that reason I think the ATP version is superior. Yeah, I think that's fair. I more or less agree. I think there are definitely situations where the car my metal really shines. But also I think one of the major weaknesses of Lukarim metal is if you don't have the frying pan down alongside Lucaro gex attack, then...

...just one of those gets nullified by the ATP JEX attack. Right. So if you only have one of those things, you're still getting Oh coode by ATP and they're taking more prizes. So that seems like a pretty big flaw, whereas even if Lucaro is better in some other matchups, I would hate to be losing in that mirror match, at least in theory in my mind. So right, yeah, I think you would lose the mirror match. I mean, we didn't get a chance to play it out, but it just seems like, you know, it's an unstoppable force against a movable object, but I just think over time, you know the the limitations of the card game and the limitations of the decks and the amount of healing or no healing that you can play like. I just think the unstoppable force is going to win that battle. Right. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. So make sure to buy her Puis aciens in your atps if you haven't already. As what we're saying, I wouldn't. I would. The other deck that I think is not as good but definitely in kind of the upper echelon the highest echelon of decks, is peak rom. Now I think it's like sket here is atpzation and I think like str light is peak rom, and I don't mean that in I don't know, like a any kind of negative way towards peak ram. Not that I don't like the deck. I think the list that we were playing on stream were like almost perfect basically where they needed to be, maybe within one or two cards of what I would take to a regional and it just always came up short. It always felt like it was on that back foot. But it kind of wrecked a lot of the other decks harder than the ATP station deck did in some ways. So it can. It has a little bit better outs to to some stall. You know, you have a snipe attack, you just get going a lot faster, right so you can get the turn one full blitz. You know, the turn one attack is very reasonable to do with peak ram and I I like it a lot. It just feels like kind of red and blue. Like wanted to you know, one of them really that much better than the other, but it is. They're a little bit different in terms of ATP Zaan and peak rum. I like them both, but peak ram is definitely one of the one of the top tier decks. Yeah, I mean topic up O v as well, allowing you to kind of break through some damage barriers that you struggled to get outside of a gx attack before. I think is actually really, really strong and probably one of the biggest benefits it gets, alongside Magnolia and clickball, both being fantastic cards in P m. So yeah, only a couple changes really needed to play P KRAAM in this format. If you're a pickerrom stand from the past. I actually am a little bit excited for Peak Ram. It's a deck that I've criticized a lot in the past ye and the past night year. But like six months or so I haven't really liked peak around post rotation, but I am starting to warm up to the idea of it again because it's getting that fast game state that I like with the gram. So I'm excited to get my hands on it shifting gears a little bit here. We talked a lot about sword and shield and we talked a lot about Zacian. Let's not forget this shield in Zamba Zenta, and we're giving away both of those cards to a day on street. So earlier today I drew the winner of our twitter giveaway. So, if you haven't followed US already, we do do giveaways on our twitter. It's TAG team pokemon. On twitter you can get all sorts of updates giveaways and we're going to be using it more for like decklist and stuff like that, advice and being kind of open to questions ahead of time. So I do the give away while was watching Industrym earlier and I am excited to reveal I'll slide it over in front of JW's face here. I doesn't actually capture like that because it's the window capture. So I let me. That's kind of a bummer, but hold on now, it's not even worth trying. So the winner of our giveaway is atrocious jakes. So on twitter. On twitter it's a Churchius Jake, I think. On twitch his user name is atrocious gameplay. He's a streamer here on twitch as well, so be sure to check out his streams. He has a really fun high production Value Stream, I've noticed. So be sure to DM US on twitter with your information and we will get that shipped out to you right away and actually a fun little surprise, I think, is in store for you when those arrived. So be on look at for that. yeahlations shifting gears again, though I want to talk about kind of like the long term impact of sword and shield. So in the immediate future, we've talked a lot about the good decks. I think there's things we haven't hit on and we certainly probably will hit on those in the future. I think just stopping at the staples is probably good for at this point in time because we don't really know how things are going to pan out right it's almost impossible to say. But what I would be interested in is what cards do you think in sword and shield will rise...

...to greatness down the road? What kind of things are hidden gems in the set that might later on become something great? I think there's some obvious answers here, but what do you personally think our cards that are just waiting to be good right now? Yeah, I mean Snorrelack v feels like a card that should be good eat probably more so an expanded that feels like a good expanded card. I think the real a boom is probably going to be good at some point in the future. I mean it's basically just vehic volt reprint. So I think as like maybe post rotation, that could be, you know, like heading into the next world's format, like that would be something that I would look into. Just being able to accelerate energy like that is generally pretty strong. Like from the deck that's generally pretty strong. I would say another card just that I think is good and has been good in the past is Zigzagoon, and I don't quite know how you play it and I think it was the first card I was thinking of when I am okay a and I mean it kind of like it's hard to put into like a deck right now or say it's greatness right now, because there's not really you know, it's all kind of center around these big basics that have like literally so much hp that putting ten damage on on them is that they just shrug it off, you know. But I do think Zigzagoon, you know, should have some place. Should have some place in the future. I just don't quite know where I'm trying to find, you know, the viability, where the viability lies with that card. I just feel like one day of the math for Zigxu and was appear in a deck and, yeah, you know, imagine one day they make like a galley and poke turn or something. You know. Yeah, I could totally see that happening to like it's not at all outside like the wrong possibility, like at tl pok a turn or something. Yeah, you know, something lacky like that. Like I could totally see Zig Zagoon rising the greatness. Another card immediately think of when I think of future potential is is frostmoth and frostmoth, if you've been paying attention to the news, and Poke beach actually just got a gold seeker are so clearly pokemon has like some kind of land ruined for Frost Moonth. Yeah, I I don't know, man. I mean that's like that's one of the most beautiful cards I've seen in a while. Yeah, frost smoth is like a really cool looking pokemon to so I definitely has a very like gent too vibe me. Yeah, if feels very much like a pokemon we were talking about in a previous podcast. How there's just some of these new pokemon that that's a Digimon for sure. But the frost moth, yeah, feels pretty good. It's going to be kind of cool to see it get that secret rare and right now I think it's viability is very questionable. I don't believe that questionable. I believe it has a good deck right now, but it kind of feels like a real a boom to me where they're printing these carts for like the future, the future rotation, and I feel like in the future it's going to be very good, but just right now it's really a class by tag teams. It's just really a class by any type of like the consistency of other decks is just way better. So I think it's hard to look out for in the future, probably post rotation. I think right now it's a tear three deck in this current format, but maybe in the future it can rise. Honestly, to me it seems like Pokemon wants frost moth to be good at some point, because not only are they printing this gold car but there's also like the water bucket, which that card is literally only exists to be played in frost moth and standard right, like there's no other reason to print it. You know, we're all we all agree on that right chat. You're with me here. So so, I don't know, like maybe the next stet they finally release a good water attacker that isn't laughers, vmax or Keldy OB. Yeah, who knows? Who knows? I think it only takes one really good like for energy, water energy attacker to really push it over the limit. So I'm curious when that will happen, if it ever does. And of course, like Frostmouth, could make an appearance and expanded as well. I know Wambolt has been brewing away and his his genius brains, tears are turning, the mechanisms are creaking back to life as he tries to cook up a frost moth and threw. So who knows, man, who knows? There? There's got to be something cool out there. I'm right. It definitely feels like a car that has that potential. You know, the formats always seemed a little be kind to rain dance decks and I do think that water has, as opposed to like the magna zones of the past, water has some pretty viable attacks that are just better than whatever Magnusonna has had. So I I think it's waiting, it's...

...ready to emerge, but I don't think it's ready to emerge in this format. Hey, man, I was a big magazone fan. I love ZORC magnuzone. That deck was crazy. Sure, yeah, I mean it wasn't good, but it was crazy. Right, it was crazy. It's great. It was Super Fun. There was one day when I like actually thought it might be a viable deck and a yeah, it was one day and I was that Andrew's apartment that day and we literally played like buzz garb versus those our magzom so, like I could beat your bows garb any day, man, and we played like a best of nine, five, I am or something. was that the was that the double supporter, Magnus? Oh No, this is the acceleration metal one, the metalcceleration cool and standard and standard. Oh my gosh. or I've like I was thinking of a totally different deck than that. Now we're talking about buzzle, like Max likes a arvad or Versas Gotch, Gotcha, is your metal tail ocean, Magnus, I'm kind of like crunching already. Know it was you, just had to field blower and timeless of them. You and kill a buzzle and then you win that folks well, because he played DC's as well, you know. So you just need to get three metals and DC. That's like an ord fold format match up that you should, you know, make into decks and that we can always have those, we can see those, you know. Yeah, we've already played the the only nine games that will ever happen with that matchup. So maybe it's best to leave it that way. So that way those will historically be the only nine games in that matchup ever played. Right. Maybe you're right. So I don't know, I'm just like thinking that might be a kind of historic in its own right. Yeah, so, yeah, but I like energy acceleration. WHO Doesn't? It's Super Fun. I would love to see frost mooth be good. I'd love to see really be good, because Greeky freaking rules man. That guy's awesome, and I want to say that they're could be potential in the Entelli online just because their abilities are so good. Yeah, like I could see a world where there's a deck that plays that. It could be a great thing. In like Stage two decks, you just play like a one jasile line and you can grab the rare candy. I don't know, it's like you can evolutionary and you can pokemon search for rare candy, which seems right, right, it could be okay. I mean sure, absolutely. Like all those seemed again, like they seem like they were printed for a new format. It kind of reminds me of like this format with the new set Sword Shield coming out, reminds me a lot of two thousand and ten, when you had, you know, all these primes that just really weren't playable because there were all these good you know, that's why as peace. Yeah, I'm I was like thinking Cyrus, Pokemon, and that's kind of true. But they're all these good sps. They spoke them. Yeah, well, everything like they body the primes. But then all of a sudden, like the rotation happens and now these primes are just insanely good. You know, the Yon Mega prime that just got destroyed by the luxury level x now is a very, you know, very, very valuable card and so intensive to very expensive. Yes, it feels to me like that. You know, if you do have an inkling of a card that you think is good, frost moth, real a boom, basically all the starter trio final evolutions, frost moth. Maybe pick those up now, before you know, rotation happens. Yeah, you never know what might come up down the line, the line. So I think we've had on a lot of interesting points about sword and shield. The last thing I'd want to ask you about is I know you were trying out some kind of rogue strategies to you know, maybe just to Prank Andrew a little bit and maybe to get the juice is just flowing creatively in your mind. What are you liking as a rogue archetype going into Sword Shield? For the people who don't like to play those top metaw decks, what is the deck for them? Well, we were playing a lot of WHIMSICOTT. That's kind of Andrew's favorite deck and I think it does have a lot of merits. I don't think it's the worst s in the format. It's definitely far from the best deck in the format, but you can really choose a lot of a lot of decks with whims of Cot and it's very fun to play. It's very cool. It gains a lot of new consistency cards, namely is Amaz Nten quick ball and you know it sets better than it did in the past. Whether or not that the way you phrase that's kind of what's up. The way you phrase that definitely made it sound like it wasn't necessarily high praise. Well, it's just the problem with that deck is like you want, you want like seven bench spots, but you only have five, and so you run out of space very quickly when you need to play things like the then a, I think Zation is very good in the...

...deck. You need to play like a Blitzel ours up strike a line, and so all of a sudden you're running out of you know, you had to choose like okay, do I want one poorrigon or do I want one whims a cot? And then when you're making those kinds of choices, like that's definitely not where you want to be with the set up deck. And so yeah, it's very good. Yeah, very fun. Yeah, I think so. How was the Shit injay deck that you try it out? Should injure deck was very good, very, very strong. We really enjoyed it and I feel like stalls are very viable arch type. Yeah, for the people who can't are coming from a tricky jym stream. Frank actually got second at the Little League tournament they had today with a rogue kind of stall mill deck featuring the cargo gx to finish off the opponent's deck at the end of the game. So kind of cool strategy. They are props to frank. So cool. Yeah, I would. I think should in Jay and whims of coot are both pretty awesome. Rowe Strategy's jolly flying man calls out a cargo gx as an awesome strategy as well. Super Cool. And then baby blound, such a Rachi I think is probably not even tea. It's teetering off the rogue line to me, where it's like people are playing baby blonds a lot. Sure, and I think now we're good anything, in good point where we can start taking some chat questions. So let's just dive right into that millennial three ass. have either of US looked at libarrow cinder race, the brew look there. I think it's Liberro because it's like I borrow or something right, like you like bro it's like volleyball. It's that. I think that's a term in right a sports. So I don't do this, man. Yeah, right. Well, you wouldn't know about sports, right. Yeah, it's in rights. I mean, yeah, it's cool. I don't think it's maybe as good as real a boom or or intellian even, but it may have its own deck at some point. I mean it's kind of a cool ability that we haven't really seen before and just any time that you're able to get energy back like you gotta gotta have that kind of there's a validity to that. So probably not in this format. Again, I think it's a little bit too slow. You're relying on a stage two and in a format that isn't that kind of Stage two is. So I don't love it for this format, but looking ahead could be good. Yeah, I'm kind of with you there. Well, asking here, I asked what do you think of the new energy designs? I personally think they're really, really sick. I Love Them. Just can we all just agree as a collective that the tag team energies were awful. They looked horrible, not that good, not like they might be the worst energies. I don't think worst energy because like the X era energies looked so but like they were so plain that I don't know, man, that tag team border just was so ugly on the energy. Yeah, but made sense, though, is the problem. This is the problem. It made a ton of sense. Is Very on brand of them to do that. So I think it had its I think it had its time. I don't know. I like the sun and moon just normal like his. Heck, anyone's look crispy sack they do. Yeah, well, it's Walla says here. Will Collinsville Metta be shaken up or do you think people will stay with the rouble, with the reliables? I think a mixture of both. I think we're going to see a shift in people's Meta game. I think they're also is going to be some definite new inclusions. Snore x vmax has been talked about and she no kind of stalled decks have been talked about, but I think we're also going to see kind of a rise of decks that kind of benefit from the way the format is played now. So egg row is a great example where it going second gets a huge advantage over as opponent because they can't play half their cards going one turn and can't play the support guards the next turn. So it's just it gets or flip that they can't play their support cards the first turn and can't play half their deck, which item card is, the second turn. So just gets really rough really fast. And but of course, like old reliables like dark and zoo arc will probably stay around. Yeah, yeah, I mean I just think like the zorcarnage decks, the turbo dark stuff probably stays and and honestly it should get a lot better. I would say that one car that you're playing that you can immediately swap out and do like a oneudred for one is the trainer's mails with quick balls. So I think the decks will become ultraball and quickball maxed, because I feel like every time you go in with Shayman or every time you go in with the trainer's mail, you you're just looking for that next ultrabold to like chain,...

...and you know that's actually a huge deal. So having more outs to draw is going to be big and I think the decks, the turbo dark decks, just get like an insane amount of draw potential with with quick ball in addition to ultrabl so look for the TURBODEX to move in that direction where they're playing higher counts of you know, instead of just having the for ultrabald. Look for them to play like four, six to eight in combination of total counts of the quick ball and ultraball and then higher accounts of Shaman and the dennate to be able to, you know, overcome prizing one so that they can get that explosive turn one start, even with the new rules right. So we got a couple questions related to obstacleon. First, what do we think about obstacon? Will have any impact on the Meta? And then in conjunction we see the Light v what are continued thoughts on that kind of archetype? I guess that is beginning to rise up. JW. have any thoughts? And Obstacle, I mean obstruct, is a pretty strong attack right now. Yeah, it's good. I just worried that, because people are playing feon for a lot of very good reasons, that it just obstacle is caught in the crossfire. So if you just fe on a way they're active, then you can knock out anything on their bench and like. So then you're an obstacle player and you at the force yourself and trying to get out only an obstacon and play. Then that just feels tough. With the stage two to only get the stage stoom right. It just feels good brecked to try to do that. So I feel like obstacon. Yes, it has kind of a cool attack that we've seen before. That's very strong, but I don't know that it has the juice to to do what it needs to do. And I, you know, I didn't watch the tricky jym stream today. Was Was it represented at all? I don't think so. Yeah, I worried that it's waiting to have its power unlocked. I don't know that the good list is out that a good list is out there yet. A deck to watch, for sure, but I you know, the bold prediction would be that it doesn't have a place in this metagame, primarily for the reason of custom catchers being back indeck and the feon right. I definitely think it suffers a lot from crossfire. Also, setting up a stage two in the current format doesn't seem recommended to me, I gotta say. Um, and you know, there's a lot of things that can go wrong when you play a deck that relies on blocking off the opponent. That being said, though, what are your thoughts on kind of a stable IV spread into body archetype stable life be spread into what until just body them with insane damage. Oh, I see. Maybe is there a ways? There a good way to like accelerate energy on to sable? I not really that I can think of. which is the hardest part of the deck. I would imagine that just seems like the the limiting factor there, because if you're not able to get up as a backup attacker, then you should just kind of get blown through right Tommy boy, says Bete. Yeah, that's not a good option, though. Feel correct to me. But you know, again, maybe it's a deck to watch out for in the future. I just think that the two attachments are just so huge. So I wouldn't mind bet a if you didn't have to also evolve a stage to right. So like you have to be able to draw like your Beata, like with Geragi. Getting a bete off isn't inconceivable, but then also evolving a stage to and getting another energy and then doing that like a second turn in a row. That's not happening, you know, that's crazy. So I think that's where the deck starts to fall apart a little bit. That being said, though, I did hear that evel tall gx with the the knockout gx attack has been bought out, which is very funny because that card is kind of crappy outside of like very specific use cases like this. So it's US interesting. I don't know what. I don't know if that's pure just like speculation or if someone has like some crazy save alive thing going on. But problem is, like you would need to have all four of your Zig Zagoon down without pricing one right, but one zigzagoon into one obstacon knocks out. Yeah, I guess that just doesn't what's of one energy, right? So like you can go with the one sable like knock out a tag team. And then it all fell. One other thing. It feels like a lot of wishful thinking. It feels like a lot of wish. Look, man, it's not sometimes you gotta wish, you know, that's right. Wish. You just Save...

Ivy. Awesome. So I haven't thought in my head, but you honestly just kind of like pulverized it with your singing. Oh good fair. If if it couldn't, you know, cut through the singing, then I don't think it was worth saying. I had like a plan, but doubts. It's just a completely a race from my mind. Great. So, you know, I guess I'm just not going to ask that question. That sounds like a good end to the cast. Had like something I thought was a great idea and that's gone. Oh what a shame, man, that's a shame that was that was probably the deck, you know, the tournament winning deck. Idea that you were ready. It wasn't like a deck I don't think goes. There's just a good question, you know. Sometimes you have a good one and you're like ready, yeah, you know, marinated in your brain and or bring it back next time. You know what, I think it's just gone forever. I think that portion of my brain just melted. It's gonna like fall out of my ear or something. But you know, that's fine. So it's anything else you wanted to make sure we hit on this week with tag tejw. Now I think we have a just a really good overview of kind of how the metagame is going to shape up, what we think of the top decks and what we think of some of the bad decks in the format. Again, there should be a lot of things that we haven't talked about. We didn't really talk about any of the fire decks. So I'm thinking things like restrm and Zec excuaseing peak rom not reck guard. We're just all struggling out here. We didn't touch on, you know, Torquole, MAG cargo. There's one other fire deck that I'm blinking on, but we just haven't you know, we haven't really touched on those. So you know there are that just goes to show that there are still a lot of decks out there that people will after a lot of variations that I think we just haven't quite seen for current decks. You know, metwo is is a deck with kind of, you know, just limited possibilities. But you look at something like ATP, which can have, you know, many different tech attackers or many different alternate attackers that can go with you know, there's just a lot of things that we could see that maybe puts a little spins on the on the current decks. Right. Yeah, I mean there's clearly going to be all sorts of carry over from this format. I'm excited to see where things go. We deliberately left some things out this week because we don't really know and we want to we want to hit on things as they come up as well so I think that brings us to a healthy clothes here for this week. Make sure you check us out on twitter at tag team Pokemon for the podcast twitter, and then at smiles trials and at the real John Walter for all of our personals. And also be sure to go on Google and vote for the Pokemon of the year if you haven't already. If you just Google search that you can vote for every generation. Make Sure You vote for pee chew and Gin too, because peach is the goat, so right. And then, other than that, make sure you check out full grip games and full grip Codescom for your card and code needs. They will hook you up with that good good and with that I think we're about ready to piece out. See you later everyone. Thank you, guys, for listening. I will catch you next time.

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