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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 1 · 1 year ago

2-1. How do you pronounce Zacian?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Everyone this will be officiallykinging off our season to of tag team. Really this shouldn't mean any changesfor the average listener. It's just a way to better synchronize theexperience between twitch youtube and all the podcasting platforms and letthe episode numbers be more insinc and stuff like that. So thank you all for your continuedsupport or, if you're listening for the first time. I hope you enjoy all right. What is that? Everybodywelcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games, premer podcasting,do my name is Riley Holbert and I'm joined by my good good friend, JWcreewall JW, how you doing today, Briley I'm doing EXCELLENC. Thank youfor asking. I did a lot of musical things today. This morning I went to alibrary played for the kids. This afternoon I went to a university played with their orchestra.Well, no, not the Orcstra, their band and I'm doing a clinic there on Fridayteaching band directors like how to play bassoon and things like that. SoI'm excited it's been a very musical week for me and then I'm heading overto connecticuts Hartford, Connecticut on the weekends to play an audition onMonday for the Simao. That is a very very musical week. How was playing music for the kids? Isthat fun? It was a good time. There was one kid.He was very cute, very smart. It just took him a while to answer. You knowhe'd like raise his hand. He was a little bit shy about it and then he'dget called on and and then he'd, like, you know, put his hand down d. He djust like scratch, his Chin a little bit and then say Elan Cool Yeah, andthen you like Hart and then n Hen, Thik Gi, woul like yes, that starts with theletter. H, that's our that's our letter of the day and then Yo get to go. Youget to go, put it up on the board and yeah. It was cool so and then therewere just he. The person that I worked with I'vedone a few. They Call Them Story Times that I worked with for this one. I wasjust very engaging with the kids. Obviously knew you know knew them right. He knew theirnames, you know they seem to come back. I don't know every day or every week orwhatever it is, and so he had a relationship with them and it was justvery exciting because he was very energetic about everything whichsometimes isn't always the case. I think just people are better at workingwith kids than others, and he was definitely very good at that. For surethat sounds really fun. Man Yeah, it was really fun so steering back towards Pokemon. We justhad the winnicase tournament at full grip this past week and I think a lot of people's minds arelooking forward to the SORD and shield metagame and how it's developing wevekind of given some preliminary thoughts over the last two weeks. I'm curiousnow that we've reached you know a more developed state. I would say where morepeople are playing at their hands in the cards, and I mean you can only getso much when you're, just playing with your testing group ahead of time, rightlike when there's so many more people and ideas coming together. That's whenthe MEDA game truly develops. So I'm curious what your thoughts are in this kind of developing Lsh, develop, sortand shield medagame whate. The best ex are looking like what Dex youpersonally. Like I mean, I think the first thing we have to hit on has to bee. The mill deck right, it's kind of, came out of nowhere a little bit. Ithink it made a showing in Japan before, but people in America didn seen toreally be talking about it right all of t a sudden. Now it's taking the worldby storm, it's all over the ladder, it's all over, like local tournaments.What is going on with this nill dcktw I mean it has like, is just a crazy milllike it's not mill that we've ever seen before, where a lot of mill in the pasthas been kind of reactive. I think back to one of the original maildecks of themodern era: Ind Wale Ord, where you know you're just looking TAT tank hids.You know you do have some aggression with the team rocket, handy work andtrick shovel and stuff like that. But for the most part you were just lookingto survive as long as possible, and that's almost not really the case withthis deck. It has just a lot more aggressive options. You can mill up toth up to eleven cards in a single turn if you're able to get a double Bullalbaand the Mutu gx attack off the mad cargoso, it's a lot more aggressivethan any other Meldick that we've seen in the past and that has led to its. You know significant successes in this.In this short time yeah it feels more remnistient to me of a Derante than itdoes of a like, a Wale, Lord or a Pitgy, or anything like that or yea. Justtrying to aggressively plough through the opponent teck. As supposed to youknow, Ha'me going to like stall your hand out or now move your energy dothis that the other thing survive your attacks right most of the POKMONS thatget Kay. I don't want hit so allright kind of interesting how that isdeveloped. What do you think has led to it rising up in the metagame? What werethe factors that contributed to mill being a strong force in the SORTOFshield metal? Well, that's kind of the...

...problem, because I don't know thatthere are any strong counters like for there to be. You know there aren't anyinherent counters that people are already playing in their decks to be.The millback here are things that you can play in retrospect, but theredefinitely wasn't anything just inherent in the top teer decks that wasgoing to beat the milldeck and that's kind of what makes it so scary is thatyou just have a strategy. That's almost uncounterableand just runs through a ton of the field yeah, and I think part of the reasonthat it's so hard to counter is the presence of the dolls right like not.Every deck can deal with gusting around, so many dolls right, yeah right being able to have you know four,eight twelve, you know almost infinite. Dolls is pretty crazy and you know youdo have some things that can kind of get you there. I think maybe the theone deck that was just kind of the best I think at maybe positioningitself to beat a deck like Senchino mill was, was the Mutu Malamar? You maybe able to snipe around it. You can kind of disrupt the hand with thetrevnor that might have been the one deck that kind of could have handled it, but I the otherdecks as they were built before the full grip tournament. Just had no realanswers to the Sentino Mill. Now I will say that ATP can be built in a way that you knowmakes the matchup a little bit more favorable. We were talking about thatbefore the cast. We saw Kevin Baxter's list, he gotsecond and a list that was shown off on the tricker gym channel by AndrewMahone was played, like I think, three Pokemoncatcher and a great catcher M. I think if you just op for the for Catcher,that matchup becomes a lot better just because you have one more out to beable to Goss something up on the bench, but I do see you know that Sintino meldeck runningthrough just about everything else, besides those two decks that I justmentioned, with almost no resistance. Yeah I mean, like abilities, areprobably as a fair matchup, but how many people are playing? UBILITIES areright now whal right and that that's kind of the interesting and maybe coolthing is that the menagame that we thought about heading into the sord andshield format is maybe cycling back on itself, I was saying- and I think a lotof other creators were kind of saying abilities are maybe not so good. Youknow, maybe not where it doesn't just have. You know itdoesn't, have the juice abilities ar can't Besatian, which is bizarre,because it's a metal type and let's just table that you know put it down.You know maybe tea, R, two and all of a sudden that might be a reasonable play,which is crazy to think crazy. How metows develop int such away that decks can loop around from being bad to good to bad, justdepending on what's showing up on a particular weekend? So you' talkedabout before how you said that there are some things in retrospect thatdecks could do to deal better with the Chincino deck. I'm sure there's a lotof people out there who are wondering what those things might be. What wouldyou do? Ind some of those non ACAN deck to to better deal with a Chincina,that's in front of you sure. So I think the POKMON catches are bigdeal for me at least I view them as a big deal over the custom catchers. Nowthere are some people that would argue well custom catchers, guaranteed topokemock catchers on a flip, but you'll have more opportunities to gust andespecially against a milldeck where they might, you know, just get rid ofone custom Cetcher if they just hit one custom catcher or you prize one an aninopportunity time, then Youl only have one ability to gust and that's notenough against the Sentino deck, because they're just going to bepushing up the dolls for as long as they can to try to get around it.Another thing that you could do is you could play Stinger in your list andlike a baby, Bullo Sefalon. That was a popular inclusion, last format to dealwith piggy and you know, still maintains its relevancy. You kind ofhave to build your deck or choose your deck around that Combo and be kind ofdifficult. Nothing. I don't know you could try toadd criogonal. I think the the one deck that comes to mind with crag andallthough is ATP. I'm curious as to your thoughts about non ATP text forSincino Yeah, it's a little tough. I do think Pokamin catters are probablybetter, specifically Virtungino, but maybe worse outside of it sure I wasdefinitely a stand for custom catcheries over programin catchers inthis format, just because they're reliable and they have like extrautility on them for the drawing, and I don't think in most matchups. Youprobably don't need to gust more than...

...twice, but I guess the Cincino DekGusting twice forst sop is not really enough and also they can randomly mill. One of the catchers which significantlyreduce is your ability to find two of them at a time so right right, I've hadmultiple games online. That kind of panned out that way. So I think I've come around to the POKMONcatchers, but I don't know if I ging t gat her alone helps enough decks. It's like when I play Pekrom. It justfeels horrible. If they get a mew down feels like there's nothing. I canreally do, and I don't know if there's like a goodway to solve that some things we talked about and our our circles have beengiraffe could be an option. Draft is like okay. In my mind, it doesn'treally pressure them that hard, so they can use rigwer right, but the theory islike they don't have full control over what they mill with telava. So you canperhaps grab some resources. I just think they play enough copies. INETHIN,that's important to them that, like it won't matter, righ like when wouldgiraffe have that impact that you're looking for Soit, I'm not a huge fan ofthat and I thought, like maybe some decks couldfit their own below Bo to try and catch tsome slipping. I think the only deckthat could really deal with that or like actually get that to work would bea Youtubdeck, because then you could do a bl, album ocargo and I don't think that it'srealistically not super easy or even possible necessarily to play aroundeight cards being in your tork sure and other than that. I think Stinger isa good option for decks that can utilize babyle stuffle on just because of the fact that, like Baa teflons a good car, it's verystrongt right. I can take those remaining three prices very quickly, sowe do have dlam ass. What do you think about Dradagon Drodagon is good, I meanthat's. You know we are kind of trying to discuss some ways that nonatpdexcould counter the the mill strategy but yeah. If you're playing, I think,dradagan just slots pretty easily into ATP. I would just be hesitant to play liketoo many tecs. I guess don't even think the Jodagon has a place in ATP. ReallyNo, and the reason is that, like Dragroft does sixty with ATP, if it'snot n Ety ptis thirty, which is useless just to be honest, but in eiy point its doing, sixty, whichdoesn't really Cao anything and so you're spending multiple turnspulling things up to try and Kao them eventually and Tiy'll. Just keptretreating unti like a doll or an Arangeru or whatever, and it cives themlots of turns to just mill you, you know sure you're spending so much time.whereats like it's like. What's the point, I guess ofplaying the Dota Gon,you know because you already can drag stuff up with like catchers and whantit Cao it. If that's your goal- and you only need to realistically do thattwice, you know maybe even less, depending on like how the game pans outfor the Tincina deck. So I don't really see at Beingos stere. I do kind of likethe Criogonol, and I saw someone and Shat was asking and the reason I likeit specifically an ADP is because you can pressure all the dolls off theboard and they can't put any more down so forcees another pokem on nat andwith ATP. Specifically, you only need to Ko a three pokoman that aren't dollsright, thinkyou're, usually going to take that first, one because they'retrying to set up you know and or theyare they're tryingto get back resources or something early in the game. It's often I findharder to you know to get sometimes just pull thedells out of your deck, like the the deck, can sometimes take a little whileto get its motors going, and so you know y. u usually take that one, thenyou might get into the flow of things, be able to get a dollar or two down,but yeah, like you, said, pressuring them off the board with Criacg, and allthis huge and doing the forty damage is very, very relevant right. It, theCargono, without the forty also kind of feels like it, gives them the benefitof time, which is not great but whileit's. Doing forty. You knowyou're, not you're, not even trying to ka or angriers with it. You can justput like an a skateboard on it or something throw it up. Khao some dolls,they promote in Aran Gre, and you retreat knock out the Rangro and all ofa sudden, now You'e Takin a third of your price cards. So I, like that, alot in theory. It doesn't even necessarily feel like a necessary ttechfor ATP. I feels Li AB can definitely beat dolls ORC mill without it, but with it it feels like a super likedoable game state that you can build. For yourself sure I saw another personchasking out, make im pay that previously was like a popular card todeal with some sort of like stall archetypes. I don't think the mildecknecessarily even builds a big enough hand to knock them well with make empay. They play with the decently small hand,sizes a lot of the time, and I generally feel like the things that youwould want to discard in the late game. I think of like Palpad is justsomething that they're going to play. You knowis eally, especially if theyknow that you have the Persian right.

Yes, I just, I don't really see itworking out that well and that what do you think Riley of like a very softcounter like playing your own Arang group? I don't really think of thatworks, because, if you're taking prizes you're going to activate their surge,so I guess, if you're playing your owner, ranger you're, just sayingyou're not going to do anything and try and tie which I guess could work but doesn't seem like it would be thatgood. You know yeah I mean the idea for me would be if you're playing pokemoncatchers. Maybe you get one extra chance to gust, but yeah again, I think if you'replaying a non Atypdeck, even the like, even the turns that you're able to gustyou have to really make the most out of them and a lot of these non atpdexcan't do that because they're only taking you know one price right I meanthe Decki was oasly. Thinking of arangerin would have been Pekaram totry and get capturs back and but just like the deck, the deck takes prizis soslow against the MIDL deck that it doesn't even feel like catchers, necessarily ot the makerbreak, especially if they play hammers and just hammeroff. You know fiveenergy and you just kind of ve done the water right, because you have to use tohave any hope you have to use tag bolt effectively and right at which, whichfeels so bad because like if they play to F mew, it's basically over. If theyplay one, you can hope they like wiff it on te turn, but even then it's lite,that's obviously horrible. So yeah, it's just funny how we went from Pitgy-and you know you could reasonably have, like a I'd, say, a pretty good matchupif you were able to get the zero Ora gx attack off. But then it's a completelydifferent strategy in this formatt. With this mial rare yeah, zero feelsisliss exactly so coo yeah, I mean, I think, there's Ithink it's kind of decx specific, I think Youto decks and ATPDX are thebest x into mill and anything else feels kind of rough, no matter what youdo to it, what what is the strength of Mutu thatthat makes you feel like it's good in the Mil? Are you saying the Mutu,Melimar or eactually? Potentially both I mean both of them could taketheoretically take advantage of Stinger bloud if they wanted to Youtute Malimar specifically has travenor which is potentially helpful and CONJENC with Marni. I canforce them ina weird board states, but I think the Stinger is probably thePrimar tragey use in Yutum Alamar and Youto welder. You can, you can do stufflike spon Deoxis. You can also singer if you care to do that, yeah and youcom or Carga gx and catch them, slipping late game and, like I wassaying earlier, if you really are convinced that the matchup is a problemfor you, you can and Youre playing my cargog CCAU. You can play your ownBelova and I really don't think that the millplayer can play around eight sure sure absolutely coon, all right.Well, Sin Shano, very good deck. Where would you put it on your tiear list like where? Where doyou think it it lies? I mean I think, we're both on agreeance, it's a verygood deck. So now it comes down to. Would you put it as like the deck to be,or would you put it as a ter one selection? I think for Dedec to be I'd stillstaynd of everywere last week and I think eighten AHTP Zausian Zasaan, I'mstill like a little on sure how to pronounce it, but I think I think ATP is probablystill the deck to beat, because it's just pretty freaking good man. It does kindof everything. You'd want out of a deck and takes extra prizes. Does a lot ofdamage accelerates energy like that all seems good to me. It's very consistent. I think Chinchinois probably in the top three to four decks and I think really. I think, if itwasn't for the fact that it struggled against ATP that it would actually beprobably the deck to be Yeah Yeah. It's good that we're. I meanwe're both in agreeance that the Sentino totat does. You know, have anunfavorable matchup into ATP with four cutcher. Okay, just just want to make that likejust clear. So everybody knows that's kind of our stance. I don't think it'sextremely unfavorable, but you know I think, a sixty forty matchup. You knowthere are ways you can fenegl. Obviously, if you're the Sentino playerand you are able to prevent them from getting a turn one to or excuse me turntwo three four gx attackoff is the ATP player, thenyou're in obviously a much better position, but I do just feel like inthat war of atrition that ATP is going to win that Gointo come out on top. Youknow the the sintiokno players going to flip tals a few times on the crushinghammers and eventually overtake...

...overtake the the game. So that's cool. So what would you put asyour other top deck? You say: ATP Ation, you say Sinchino and then you said,there's maybe three to four that you would put in this kind of upper tiear yeah and I looked it up t's. It is Ashiand confirmed so Otcho. Well, I don't Kowthey say t in the anime. Have theyappeared in the Enimat? Yet I don't think that's true. I think you're justmaking that up. Oh sorry, I said too much you've leaked the Anima Gosh. I like lost mye brain for asecond there. I think the other an know I'm gsothe other other decks. I put up.There was Ashian. I would say that moutub variants arekind of all up there. I think Wilder Mutu still is pretty good, being ableto to three hunto turn to being the only deck that can reliablydo three hundred turn. Two Ye is insane still and really shouldn't be slept on.We actually saw that today, map prices on stream at foll grip and justcompletely blue asashiand deck out of the water. By doing three hundred turntwo and knocking out a ATP, and I had a big charm on that Mutu,so it wouldn't be ocoed by Azashian. So I like that, but I still think tha the Malm Armu tohas potential I'm a little less inclined to play it kind of like youwere alluding to last week because of the fact you know it's amElmar Deck. It has a lot of inherent things going on ind it. I guess youcould say it's not necessarily inconsistent, but there's just a lotmore moving parts that you have to get operating as opposed to just like asimple like Tarachi and attach energy kind of tech. That sure the othertopdecs are, I think, pegram is still a top to yeur. Contender is a reallystrong deck. I guess guess the job done versus most things, but it's really badagainst the Milldeck, which yeah and that's kind of right.That's kind of the problem, though, to me also Pikeram, has a as a slightlyunfavorable matchup against atps Ahion and to have a bad and in some cases almost almostunwinnable, matchup against. You know two of the top decks, while beatingeverything else. It just feels like the metagame, isn't correct for Pikaromright now, right, I think Pekeraun could finess Zashiin a little bitharder stuff like big charms, couldpotentially be really helpful. I think big charm actually is a car thi,initially overlooked, but t'so now thay, seeing now I'm seeing like the mathworkout for the ACAN. It makes more and more sense to me to start including itin deck, because it really it messes up thatmath quite a bit, especially against ation, I think, is where you'll noticethat impact the hardest yeah right, also ik in Ikron, to like that's anextra electric power which honestly could be a gate. BEPER, that's hugeyeah, that's T at's, that's massive! Actually, so I don't know like BeyourRobs, like could definitely see trying that out to potentially have a better S,ACI matchup. I don't think it's terrible, though, like I think I thinkit's winnable, whereas the nil matchup feels like a nightmare. Yeah, yes, definiel. Definitely it's just!It's super tough there and yeah going back to the big charm. I think you'rehitting on a really good point here, because big charm does feel kind oflike this. This card that that's on the up and up in the Meta game- and I sayup and up the the metagame really isn't developed. You know we've seen maybe ahandful of o tournaments less than handfull of tournaments, just beingstreamed on twitch of people playing, and then you know whatever results.People are showing in their youtube videos of playing on the ladder, but this gard seems like it's on the up andup just for, like you said, adding a little bit of more difficulty in right numbers yeah and it's definitelya card that it overlooked. When I was buying Cartins to so ycatrhebecausewe've had you know, we've had metal frying Pan, which is a pretty goodinclusion, although some people are taking it out of Aty pusation and we'vehad things like choice helmet in the past. That didn't really see a ton ofplay, but maybe this changes now I don't know the the plus thirty justgeneral HP might just be better than any other. You know damage modifyingtool that we've had in the past. Additionally, we don't see a lot ofliceender labs. That's right! I was actually thinking today because dex areplaying BUFK patding. I could totally see ATP ostion coming to play,liecenter labs and, like you know, instead of getting damage it shine orband like they just play a couple of zigiguns or something yeah. This is where this is the place.My mind is going, it's like. Really,...

...things are messed up. Yeah you'd thinkso crazy gotmy, but for real though I could definitelysee that happening now. Granted you lose utility and, likeyour your metal, Frank Pans, get worse your skateboards get worse, but ifeverybody's playing big charm and that like negatively impacts you I don't seewhy you wouldn't try and beat it sure so, cool okay, so that's kind of like the top O,the top dexk that Aleast ta overview of them. Is there any other one that you'dlike to specifically dive into? Do you have any particular thoughts and like aMutu variant or maybe Pekrom that you want to touch on? Not particularly it kind of almostfeels I don't want to say worthless, but itfeels kind of fruitless. Maybe to talk about a lot of these other decks,because I feel like the good decks, are so good that they they just really bully a lotof these other teer, two or two or three decks out like a lot of thesethings are almost unplayable there are. There is a lot of interest in sable. Igoons, and I see so many people online, and it kind of annoys me becausethey'll ppear at like any time a deck of pears ti'll be like well. This willlose to an obstace. So I do I do feel like we should takesome time a and discuss why sable igoons is a deck. That's on a lot of people'sradare, I mean if we want to discuss why. I think it is a one word answerand it's obstructed. You know, is the deck even remotelypossible to work without abstruct right? No, exactly so, I mean like I just don't like it's ther, I'm sureplenty of games where you don't even get too obstruct, which is problematican of itself right. That being said, UB struct is goodagainst a lot of decks. At least once Yot gets the hoot on. So you don't getfeeowned because you got to get the hood on as well, but even then you have to o probablyhave to rare candy up and obste Gon to get it to work, and you have to get twoattachments on it, which there's no acceleration, so you just kind of haveto get them. I guess you could do some like Weird Coco, prisome kind of thingcome to Oh yeah. I guess you don't even needthe paintperush yeah. You just need one dark with Otse Ga, the sable I needs toTorih yeah, but like it I feel like the Save Lik. Barely it matters, you knowyeah. I don't know what the Sabliyeis doing in these. In these decks, likethe obstage and just feels like they're like if obstructies 't win you the game,I don't think savl. I will either right. So I don't know it's like kind ofentertaining to me, though, because goes definitely has like a group oflike very deni token supplis yeah, which is very entertaining it is reallyentertaining. I don't know if I would't even put it as like a a tear two deck.Unless someone find something that breaks it, yeah, which I don't Ihaven't, found that yet maybe maybe someone's got the secret goon steckthat they're going to bring to OCIC. I mean it should be positioned prettywell. I think the one kind of curiosity in the format wouldprobably be Mutu Malamar, just in the sense thatyou could you know if you play Ditto an that deck, you could evvolve intosomething to knock out something yeah o I mean there's a you know what I meanwell like also any Mutu that could just play a Gret Inj. That's true, WTTHAT's, true yeah, butyou don't Wat shot, though, which is the problem who cares Nja, but then the goonsdeckculd Iq, I'msaying, but what of people la your own selvihood though? Well, then they could play livesanderlance. Then you feeon their good. I think we got to get you probably dohave to play the five card packagers to make sure you have goods on l, it's just the more. We talk, the moreconvoluted the gints. You have like a third of your deck, itsjust to make sure that you beat obsticonsistently the gears are turning yeah. So I guess, if you take awayanything Ron, this episode, it's that you definitely cannot lose the goonsgoing to bext COMPWA. Well, I just think that Fion is such apopular card in a lot of the big archetypes and and guns to me, should just struggle with ADP again wekeep coming back to that, but I do feel like it' solidified itself as thesingle str deck like this deck is a...

...deck that a lot of people could justtake and play. I feel like this entire format and and perform well like it'sone of those decks that you just it's so solid by itself, doesn't really havea good counter and it just go far. You know it should just carry somebody forthe rest of right. I guess if you want a realistic answer for wigoons,probably will never work, even if they have the hood to DotghFione. Eight people almost certainly knock out the first thing before youget an opstage and going with abstract, and then they have to only gust twothings: Til in yeah. So exactly it's crazy, Craz, pretty crazy man, Godgotta, say Taa Little Crazy, O, I love to say, got Ta, say Wat,something absurd after it ats something I've been doing a lot, but I like playleague with my friends, W Gotto, say cool, so yeah we're not a huge goodstal whe theres. Some other, though like decks that you could see on theprecipice of success right now. You did your own tier list, yeah like a weekago. What are the decks that are occupying at like ter, too yeah? It'shere too, I had, I had say blagoons. I had big Blassefhalon. That seems like adeck that could work. I haven't put enough, you know, thought into it inthis format seems like a decent enough deck. You know, maybe you have someways to beat. You know a lot of the other contenders. Obviously the Mutomatchups don't really change all that much I agains would still worry aboutatpzation. With that blesephlon deck I have a whimspot deck seems fine. Youknow not great, not horrible kind of occupying that midsier Gartam Giurotina,another deck seem that seems just decent again. I don't think it has whatit takes to overcome. ATP, that's kind of just the big gatekeeper of thiswarmat, but let's go down into the teer three. What I had in my video here wasRila boom at Tor. Three is starting to gain a little bit of traction. We'reStartin as yeah and well and thit was a card that I initially thought would bepretty good. I think if we go back to some of the previous podcast episodes,I was saying you know it's probably not ter one. You know it's probably not aGreay deck, but it does have some merit to it and we're finally starting to seepeople either build it correctly or you know just just play it. You know we'refinally starting to see a get played and it's doing decently enough. I thinkthe GX attack from the from the Alolan Executir Ralet isamazing and being able to pull that off. Consistently is a huge boon to the deck.You also have things like shamen prism, which is a decent one prize attacker.You can couple that with like the Snivy Venistor, which can gust for free or Imean for an attachment, but withoutenough, it's kind of like it- has some goodparts to it. I don't, I think it's a little bit too lineer, but I mean it's making a case for itself.It's definitely not it's definitely not a deck that is unplayable yeah. I think I thinkrilipin was actually decent. I I it's just like a little bit lackingright now, and it might benefit more in future sets when it gets a better poolof cards to work with what I think is going for it right now,as if it gets a head, it's really easy to stay ahead and so like. If you getthat Sicx Energy Rallet EG attack off a lot of x, like can't do anything aboutthat, you know they just lose. So I always like go back to Pekaron,because that was the first tic I built in this format, and I've been playing alot of online, especially in events to like try and get more packs and stuff, and when Ilse, like Pikram, you know if I have to like burn a bunch of myaccelerations like the Coco in the thunter mountain, typically go prettyearly, so I can try and get full blittes off and then, if they get thatsix hundred yer tacg off, I just lose, because I have to attach three timesout of Bokemo, so yeah and not granted half the games,though they didn't get that attack off, but the other half they did, and I lostright. That's what that's what I think it's like if the Eggra deck can stayahead or get ahead rather it'll stay ahead because it kind of like ippressesyou out of the game, yeah yeah, I mean I would say that Rillaboom is betterthan frostmoth. At this point, I not sure I, U, Hende percent, O G air, butI mean reallyboom has like a seat at the table. I think it might be at thekids table, but it's in the conversation you know, and I think itis just taking like the correct list or...

...the Correcter, because I think thereare a few ways to build it. You know you could obviously build it. A justpure grass type. You could build it with Meu to thereare just different.You know you cun, build it kind of more requasa center, there's just a fewdifferent and even more ways that I'm not saying right now, but there're justa few different ways to play it, and I think the more that that decx getsexplored the more success it you know should have yeah. Ithink frosmoth really suffered as well fromd, just not having good attackersto use with it, the best ones, probably lap. Well, I don't want to say Lapeszuin the best one Kaldo is probably the most ufficient one, but it's hard toget all the damage you need consistently with it and then Laprusdoes more damage, but it gets the three prizes and it speak to peekerom. Sothat's kind of unfortunate thii, right least- and you know that'sall predicate of the fact t you can find your energy quickly, which will bea lot easier next for mat when you have like the buckets the disgusting BucketYeah. Well, we'll see the jury is still out,though I don't know if the bucket is going to be. I don't think the bucketwill break the deck, because there's that attackerist to break the deck yetsure sure, but I love the bucket, like there's yer percent chance, if I'mplaying a like a water type deck that I'll ever play professor's letter overthe Bucket- oh no wock it for sure, and the bucket is a way better gard. Another DAC that I think we do deserveto hit on, though, and we were bigger, Ond this deck inthe past. I think, and we h've kind of like faded out of our brains. A littlebit is the Babyople Sefflon deck. Sothatteck was looking huge, lucky egg and either Greens or ability both werelooking like viale options. I think we both kind of aired towards ability justbecause it could play mew and Pekro was looking like deedeck to beat that's so much anymore. I don't thinkThegran is Bdxtiby, but still a toptic. What are your current thoughts on thebaby? SUFPLAN DX? Are they still attopped her contender? Are they kindof just resting just below the topdecs? Are they worse than that? What are yourthoughts? It's just a deck that I need. Some more testing with I've been seeinga zool play the list. A lot on the ladder seems like it's doing prettydecently. I like his inclusion of the Orcoreo gx. I think, or that's what itwas right. ORCARYOGX, that's a draw you extra cards that seems very good inkind of in place of the lucky eggs. I think the deck is fine. It's just likea deck that I need a lot more, a lot more testing with you know it'sone deck, that's on my radar for sure, as being, I think, just under the toptier, but could get there because a lot of the top tears focused around youknow gx or V. Two prize or three prize attackersyeah I'm kind of a fan of the deck. At least it's very fun to play. I know. One thing you mentioned is Wollthat as alwas trying out and maybe the surviginated from elsewhere was the bspringer, and so with that, if you against ADP, Acian or Zashian, I'mstill getting used to it is you can take that first knockout onthe ATP and then you've taken four prizes now so knocking up the Zashianactually wouldn't see the game at that point, so that seems like a kind of acool development and that could potentially be useful in other matchupsas well, but definitely a good idea for the ATPmatchup. I think the deck is still pretty good, though I think it might struggle in some areas, just like consistency, wise, it's notalways easyto get up and running and if decks play more stamps in the future.That could also be rough, but I think right now, it's actually decentlypoised to do well in the metagame. You know the price trades pretty crazy,so right, right, t least against bag team decks, and you know ATP and youtwo are both seeing probably the most play in the farmat right now, so yeah seems viable enough to meabsolutely absolutely hit on some good points there. So I think that's that's a good! That's a good wrapup, Olasaphlon and really a good overview of the decks in incontention right now for Ocic, Ithink than just about covers it. I don't know of anything kind of rogue or that we haven't seenyet I mean I think the biggest like rogue deck to come out was obviouslythe Sancino mill which wasn't really a rogue because it was played in Japanand we basically already have a lift, but I just got to ignored it like yeah,yeah, right idigress. I think that everything that we've that Wev talkedabout is is already out there. I think we're going to see some variation ofwhat we've already seen in the next few weeks and the next big tournaments yeah.I'm definitely excited to see what comes out of it. So I we don't have to spend a ton of time ofit, but I know people are asking- and I know you've done. Testing andColnsville is actually the first regional that we're going to and thisfarmat and that is expanded so to w you're a classic ex this year, you'velike basically just been the expandic...

Gos, that's all Youve Gon to which is really like odd yeah. I don't know it's just whateverit just like worked out that way that that's all I can go to its expectedevense. So I know ouul experience eperimenting with expanded. What aresome decks that you're liking right now, and why do you like those tecxs inparticular? Well, I'm going to say I think right now. The deck that I wouldjust tell anyone to play is turbosahian. That thing is just filthy, because it's more energy efficient thandark rye but- and it also doesn't need anythinglike it- also has the inherent drawpower that kind of overcomes thatturn one barrier of not being able to play a supporter. It's just ridiculously strong. I'veplayed maybe an hour or two of that on ladder. Both on my stream and off mystream and it's been solidly beating almost anything that I bring it. Idon't know that I've had selfinflicted losses, let's just say that, buteverything that I've played smart against I've beaten, and so it feelsvery, very strong. I mean obviously I'm not playing against like the highestTOR calber players on the ladder, but it just goes to show the inherentstrength of the deck that it's just running over. What we thought was goodlast format and one of the best things about the Zatian deck is that going toswing right back to it? Is that it's almost unaffected by this turn one rulear more so unaffected than any other deck ecause roken ability you have theinherent draw, so you're going to be able to, at the very least, try toaccelerate, try to draw a few cards you're, not as stuck in dead hands asyou would be with some other decks. I will say if you're looking to you know, go toCollinsville ar you have an expanded thing coming up, just look to thebiggest change that I've made in all my decks is cutting trainers, mail forquick ball and in some time, in some cases, even cutting ultrabal for quickball, and that's just because it's a littlebit more efficient way to search out your basics, often times I'll have anultra ball and I'm just going to try to go. For you know a draw PokamonaDedenna, a shame in alately and in a lot of cases too whenh. You have trainers, mail, you're,just going to look for the ultra ball. So why not just cut the trainers? Mailcut the crap and just play more. You know basiright, and so I think like if you're lookingto build lists, really takeinto effect, Quick Ball, because I think it is oneof the best boons for consistency in expanded right now that we got fromsort and shield, I would say: turbodark probably staysgood. I don't know if it's as good as Zosshan in expanded, just because you need moreenergy to do things, but you have a little bit more tricks that you can do.You know you have things like Savali tranitar. You have things like Guz,Lord. You have things like guys. Lord gx There's a few more spooky things thatyou can do. You have an automatic inclusion of an evolution if you decideto play the wevioline so that maybe helps ye get around things like vile plume. I think dark is probably good, although I just I can't say with confidence thatit's better or as good as tation and then agrow probably stays up there in asimilar list to what we saw from Dallas and there's one other day. Oh, we weretalking a little bit about snorelacks, that's another deck that I really wantto get on the ladder and test, because that feels like another strongcontender just having that HIGHHP. If younowization struggles to hi is understatement, yeah sation CA struggle, sayt, those numbersso being able to do that is huge. Being able to hit for one shots while notgetting one shot and return is huge yeah. I personally was definitely a astarlak Stan before even diving into the EXPANDOF farmat at all. Yep justseems Super Fun and super good. It kind of reminds me of ZAREDEC. The onlything that is kind of annoying about it is the draw pokemon and the attackingbook. Fon Aren't the same Pok Mont anymore, but I guess the strogs hadtrade. That would probably be you know it be like a little bit much. I thinkso. It's like it's cool like I get it right right right, but yeah I mean Thee's, Acian, OrzashianSaushian the x seems pretty efficient. It does a lot of damage very quickly.Has the draw ability, which is super valuable right now in the expandedformat being it it lets. You go first, the less of a panalty. So I think that's pretty good. So doyou have any he two questions. Wil, ask you first off: Do you play anyevolution cards to deal with vio, plume...

...and second off? Do you prefer it to bea more straightforward version? Olready prefer a counter energy version. I think that that you would want to play at leastone stealthyhood, potentially two stealthyhood,potentially one stealthy hood and adousing machine. I think if you justplay the one you should be able to because you can one shot, the the elolen executor ralet pretty easily.You know all you need is the choice band and one delmies down assuming youplay, you know one or two: You know you just need one dewmis or you need onezigzagoon. If you decide to play that or you know, I don't know one shrine tick,I guets you know they're just la their ways to place the damage. That's likenot plus power hypnotoxic laser, but if you can one shot Lis Baer. I know rightthat could be, but if you can once shot the Ralit eggbefore they get too much of a board state, and I think the too much of aboard state is like getting up to of the basic vioblumes, then you should bepretty good from there and they might not even have enough of a board state to the point wherethey can lock you out of the getting the stelthyhood attached to abench station. So I think just the one is probably going to be enough to swingthat matchup in your favor and that's where I would look to go with thisationin terms of playingzation straight or wit, COC, and I looked it up. Remember I'm leaking again: You're littllyLeakin in terms of Zashan straight ORSAHIAN,counter energy, I'm leaning more towards the Zahan counter energy feelslike I have a few more options. The PSEUDOWUDO is an insane card right nowyou hit dark for weakness. You hit, you know, potentially snorelak Lax Max forWax Max for weakness. That seems just so strong as well aspotentially you know doing other cool. You know tricky that I don't know youwould hit Zorac for weakness. I don't know if that's really relevant anymore,butfor s. Why now right, but the Sudowudos et so good and thenyou're already playing the counter. So I just say: Hey why not Playan Entethat can kind of help you swing the mirror matchup, and so I prefer thecounter energy version. I could see somebody just going straight and thatbeing perfectly acceptable as well, but I do think Sudo Wido is too good andthen the other cool thing is that counter energy works on the Zatians. Tolike what the heck faction, I let it slide for a little, but I'mjust GOIT TA correct you every time all right, Zomshei, Goshian! Next episodeis just going to be me pronouncing xaution over in an hour yeah, maybewe'll make that a bonus episode es, try an talk about Zoshi Andex foran our and every time. No s something wrong. You get like Kni. Somehow, O yeaink be fun. I have that. I have the collar or something and I got shot Coo thatas, pretty awesome. I gotta Say Yeah. So I don't know so that that's mythoughts on the on that version of the deck cool so yeah, I think, there's alot to be uncovered in expanding, but it seems like fasttex are in a goodspot right now, like being able to PLO or your deck with football. They kind of condraw a lot of cardswithout a juniper term one and they can attack turn to for a lot of energy,regardless of whether they go first or second so seems ki like theyre in good spot. Wesaw you know: Roxy Chomp, Win Dallas, despite there being a lot of thingslike shoklock, despite ther, being decent stall decks out there. I thinkof like that Redgie Rock doll stall, despite despite things like that, wesaw just a big attacking deck win and that would leave me to believe that youknow the mill archetype didn't really gain anything from sort and shield thatI can that I can think of immediately. You know that just is like an autoinclusion and any type of mill or Staldeck, and so I'm focusing right now on just all thebig attacking decks, and I think that's probably where, where I would suggest alot of people go right. I think you start there. I think, there's potential.If, if there is potential for like a millor Staldeck, I think Chinchino cankind of open the door to that a little Geh or I mean even stuff, like a walltype of deck. The ohe problem is these v Pokemon Justyeah. Ah, no right now,that's the huge problem with you know: Hoopo was amazing. Last format, Whubowas so criminally underrated in the PRESORD and shield expanded format, butnow that we have Pokemon v, that card...

...is just worthless yeah. I agree man, so I think you start with the attackingdecks. If there's some kind of like energy removal control deck, I thinkChinchino opens the door to that, but that will take like more developedunderstanding of what the metigane will look like to really get an idea ofwhere to go with it. Would you agree? I would agree yeah cool, so that's ourview into expanded right now, Jo flaman calls out Diaga gx in Zashian. I coulddefinitely see that being an option. Timeless gx is pretty good good, butAndi think it rains to be seen how these dexwel pan out. So now we'll openthe floor to chat. I think there are already some comments or questions thatwe can get to in here will answer. You know about four to five questions andthen we'll sign up for the day. Thank you all so much for for tuning in yeahand guys. Thank you so much for the viewership. I want to say here we justhad in the last month, with our last four episodes, we had a total of elevenhundred plus downloags, which is just insane how much it's grown in the justreally these last few months, it's been really great to have this support. Sothank you guys for supporting this podcast. It makes us feel wanted, andit makes us feel that we're producing content that people want to hear wantto have want to listen to. So thank you for that. Yeah I mean the support has beenamazing, especially in the last month or so. I think, we've really kind ofblown up a little bit and you know we recognize that and appreciate everysingle one of you, hother you've been here for the past year or whetheryou've been here for a day. So thank you all so much maccarb asking h. One is OCIC. That isgoing to be this next weekend here and actually I saw earlier someonew's asking topthree decks for OCIC for both of us. I think we're probably more or less anagreeance, ut I'll, say mine. First, I think ADP Zashian is going to be thenumber one for both of us right now. We both like that deck for at least twoweeks now and nothing is really changed to make us dislike it. In fact, somethings may have even made us like it more Yeahi. Think MOU to decks are probablymy second pick. I think I like the Walder versions a lot right now, but Icould see some merit in the Mallei versions and then I do think Cincino isgood enough to make it like a third pick for me. I would say I would agree with yourfirst to there and then I would put blasephlon as like the third deck, butI just need a lot more testing with it. It's not like I don't know. I couldn'ttell you. Oh you know, what's your list that you would take, I don't know thatquite yet, but it's a deck that I would look into for OCIC. So I guess you knowa top pick, meaning a top pick for me to test heading into the tournament. Yeah and they're kin o asking aboutPikarom Pikram is definitely a top tier deck. I think it struggles a little toomuch against the mill deck for me to want to take it to a large tournamentat the moment, although it's like definitely possiblethat mill fades out over time at the moment, I think it's very, very popularyeah, so whe ye I can now yeah. We were discussing this in the group Shat. Wethink that the MILLDECK is very popular because it's pretty easy compared toother, like Mille staldecks, and you know that that's that's huge. Youknow, that's your consideration there. So Pok Mon breeteris asking another interesting question. If you're goingto Collnsville, which we both are, what is one deck that you don't want to takea loss to man? It's tough, because I don't. I don'tknow what beats Zohian and expanded, but I guess Iwould just say, like I wouldn't want to take a loss to EG row. Yeah, I think, taking a hard loss toegero would be a bad idea. I don't think you like want to have aterribly bad boss against t e Ashian either, because I think people are evenoutside of the GW and I world that we live in people are catching on to thefact that card is pretty good. So you know R. I would at least try andtake the fififty Tesashan. I think right, exact wite me just playn exation,but you know I mean it might yeah, that's a good ray to get a FI, fifty splay, the exact six cool, any other things that we wanted to hiton this week. Andother questions from chat or comments that you wanted tomake about sort and shield developing JW. I just feel like this format is veryfresh, even though it feels like we have this defined stere deck in ATPAhian. I do still feel like there's a lot to discover about the format. Again,we ware talking about this kind of...

...cyclical nature of things where you know something like Reshram.CHARZARD welder could make its way back if being a veryrelevant deck, afo sure after kind of looking like it, maybe couldn't hold acandle to some of these other decks and that's just kind of interesting. It'sfun to see how it'll unfold, I'm not going to OCIC Riley you're not going toOCIC, so we'll be able to watch these and really kind of dissect. Whatplayers are bringig to the table? I'm excited to see like any unique text,unique decks. Maybe someone will finally make goons work and that'll beon dudes, feeno CISEE. That could be the headline I would look forward toand I'm sure there are plenty of other people who would as well so thay'llbring us to a close this week. Thank you all again for your viewership andsupport and we will catch you all next week same place same time, peace.

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