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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 1 · 2 years ago

2-1. How do you pronounce Zacian?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Everyone. This will be officially king off our season two of tag team. Really, they shouldn't mean any changes for the average listener. It's just a way to better synchronize the experience between twitch, Youtube and all the podcasting platforms and let the episode numbers be more in seeing and stuff like that. So thank you all for your continued support. Or if you're listening for the first time, I hope you enjoy all right. What is that? Everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games from me or podcasting to my name is Riley Hobart and I'm joined by my good, good friend JW Cree Wall Gw how you doing today, Riley? I'm doing excellence. Thank you for asking. I did a lot of musical things today. This morning I went to a library played for the kids. This afternoon I went to a university played with their orchestra. Well, no, not the orchestra, their brands, and I'm doing a clinic there on Friday teaching band directors like how to play bassoon and things like that. So I'm excited. It's been a very musical week for me and then I'm heading over to Connecticut, Hartford Connecticut, on the weekend to play an audition on Monday for the simple wow, that is a very, very musical week. How is playing music for the kids? That fun? It was a good time. There was one kid. He's very cute, very smart. It just took him a while to answer, you know, he'd like raises handy, was a little bit shy about it, and then he'd get called on and and then he'd like, you know, put his hand down and just like scratch his Chin a little bit and then say the laying. Cool, yeah, and then he like heart and like I was like yes, that starts. That the letter H. that's our that's our letter of the day. And and then he get to go, you get to go put it up on the board and yeah, it was cool. So and then there were just the person that I worked with. I've done a few they calmed story times and I worked with for this one. was just very engaging with the kids. Obviously new, you know, knew them right, he knew their names. You know, they seem to come back, I don't know, every day or every week or whatever it is, and so he had a relationship with them and it was just very exciting because he was very energetic about everything, which sometimes isn't always the case. I think just people are better at working with kids than others, and he was definitely very good at that for sure. That sounds really fun, man. Yeah, it was really fun. So, steering back towards Pokemon, we just had the winn a case tournament at full grip this past week and I think a lot of people's minds are looking forward to the sword and shield metagame and how it's developing. We kind of given some preliminary thoughts over the last two weeks. I'm curious now that we've reached, you know, a more developed state, I would say we're more people are playing at their hands in the cards and I mean you can only get so much when you're just playing with your testing group ahead of time, right, like when there's so many more people and ideas coming together, that's when the metagame true really develops. So I'm curious about your thoughts are in this kind of develop being Flash Developed Sword Shield met a game, what the best decks are looking like? What decks you personally like? I mean, I think the first thing we have to hit on has to be the the mill deck. Right. It's kind of came out of nowhere a little bit. I think it made a showing in Japan before, but people in America didn't seem to really be talking about it right all of a sudden, now it's taking the world by storm. It's all over the ladder, it's all over like local tournaments. What is going on with this mill deck tow I mean it has like it's just a crazy mill like. It's not mill that we've ever seen before, where a lot of mill in the past has been kind of reactive. I think back to one of the original mal decks of the modern era and whale Lord, where you know you're just looking to tank hits. You know you do have some aggression with the team rockets handywork and trickshovel and stuff like that, but for the most part you were just looking to survive as long as possible, and that's almost not really the case with this deck. It has just a lot more aggressive options. You can mill up to third, up to eleven cards in a single turn if you're able to get a double Bowl Elba and the Mewtwo gx attack off the mad cargo right. So it's a lot more aggressive than any other mill deck. That we've seen in the past and that has led to its, you know, significant successes in this in this short time. Yeah, it feels more amission to me of a De rant than it does of a like a way a lord or a pigey or anything like that. Or, yeah, just trying to aggressively plow through the opponent's deck as opposed to, you know, I'm gonna like stall your hand out or movie your energy to this. That the other thing. Survive your attacks. Right. Most of the pokemons that get Ko don't want hit. So right. Kind of interesting how that is developed. What do you think is led to it rising up in the metagame? What were the factors that contributed to mill being a strong force in the sword and Shield Meta? Well, that's kind of the problem, because I don't...

...know that there are any strong counters like for there to be. You know, there aren't any inherent counters that people are already playing in their decks to be the mill deck. There are things that you can play in retrospect, but there definitely wasn't anything just inherent in the top tier decks that was going to beat the mill deck, and that's kind of what makes it so scary. Is that you just have a strategy that's almost uncounterable and just runs through a ton of the field. Yeah, and I think part of the reason that it's so hard to counter is the presence of the dolls, right, like not every deck can deal with gusting around so many dolls, right. Yeah, all right, being able to have, you know, for a twelve, you know, almost infinite dolls is pretty crazy and you know, you do have some things that can kind of get you there. I think maybe the one deck that was just kind of the best, I think, at maybe positioning itself to beat a deck like since you no mill was was the mew to Malamar. You may be able to snipe around it. You can kind of disrupt the hand with the Trevnoor. That might have been the one deck that kind of could have handled it, but I the other decks, as they were built before the full grip tournament, just had no real answers to the Cincino mill. Now I will say that ATP can be built in a way that, you know, makes the matchup a little bit more favorable. We were talking about that before the cast. We saw Kevin Baxter's list. He got second and a list that was shown off on the Tricky Gym Channel by Andrew Mahone was played like, I think, three Pokemon catcher and a great catcher. Hmm, I think if you just opt for the for Catcher, that matchup becomes a lot better just because you have one more out to be able to Gus something up on the bench. But I do see you know that, since you know mal deck, running through just about everything else besides those two decks that I just mentioned with almost no resistance. Yeah, I mean like abilities are probably as a fair matchup, but how many people are playing abilities are right now? Well, right, and that's kind of the interesting and maybe cool thing is that the metagame that we thought about heading into the sword and shield format is maybe cycling back on itself. I was saying, and I think a lot of other creators were kind of saying, abilities are maybe not so good, you know, maybe not where. It doesn't just have, you know, it doesn't have the juice. Abilities are can't beat Zation, which is bizarre because it's a metal type and let's just table that, you know, put it down. You know, maybe tier two, and all of a sudden that might be a reasonable play, which is crazy to think crazy how metas develop in such a way that decks can loop around from being bad to good to bad, just depending on what's showing up on a particular weekend. So you talked about before how you said that there are some things in retrospect that decks could do to deal better with the Cinchino deck. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who are wondering what those things might be. What would you do in some of those non SEC and decks to to better deal with a Cinchino that's in front of you? Sure so. I think the POKEMON catchers are a big deal. For me at least, I view them as a big deal over the custom catchers. Now there are some people that would argue, well, custom catchers guaranteed and pokemon catches on a flip, but you'll have more opportunities to gust, and especially against a mill deck where they might, you know, just get rid of one custom catcher. If they just hit one custom catcher or are you prize one at an inopportunity of time, then you'll only have one ability to gust and that's not enough against the Sincino deck because they're just going to be pushing up the dolls for as long as they can to try to get around it. Another thing that you could do is you could play Stinger in your list and like a baby blow cephalon. That was a popular inclusion last format to deal with Pidgy and, you know, still maintains its relevancy. You kind of have to build your deck or choose your deck around that Combo and be kind of difficult. Nothing, I don't know. You could try to add criagonal. I think the the one deck that comes to mind with criagonal, though, is ATP. I'm curious as to your thoughts about non ATP text for since you know, yeah, it's it's a little tough. I do think pokemon catchers are probably better specifically for Gincino, but maybe you worse outside of it. Sure I was definitely a stand for custom catchers over pokemon catchers in this format, just because they're reliable and they have like extra utility on them for the drawing and I don't think in most matchups you probably don't need to gust more than twice, but I guess the Chincino...

Deck Gusting twice first off is not really enough, and also they can randomly mill one of the catchers, which significantly reduces your ability to find two of them at a time. So right, I've had multiple games online that kind of pand out that way. So I think I've come around to the POKEMON catchers, but I don't know if Pokmon catcher alone helps enough decks. It's like when I play peak Ram. It just feels horrible if they get him, you down. It feels like there's nothing I can really do and I don't know if there's like a good way to solve that. Some things we talked about in our our circles have been giraffe could be an option. GIRAFFE is like okay, in my mind, it doesn't really pressure them that hard, so they can use a ring grew right, but the theory is like they don't have full control over what they mill with Belova, so you can perhaps grab some resources. I just think they play enough copies of I need. That's important to them. That like it won't matter if right, like when would giraffe have that impact that you're looking for? Se Right? I'm not a huge fan of that and I thought like maybe some decks could fit their own below bow to try and kept some slipping. I think the only deck that could really deal with that or like actually get that to work would be a mewtwo deck, because then you could do a below them, a cargo, and I don't think that it's realistically not super easy or even possible necessarily to play around eight cards being in your direct sure. And other than that, I think Stinger is a good option for decks that can utilize baby bill stuff on just because of the fact that, like baby Steffan's a good car. It's very strong right. It can take those three remaining three prices very quickly. So we do have of D lamb ass. What do you think about drug agon? Drud agon is good. I mean that's you know, we're kind of trying to discuss some ways that non ATP decks could counter the the mill strategy. But yeah, if you're playing, I think Drud Agon just slots pretty easily into ATP. I would just be hesitant to play like too many texts against something to think the druggon has a place in ATP, really know, and the reason is that, like drag off does sixty with ATP. If it's not an ATP, it is thirty, which is useless. Just to be honest. But in ATP it's doing sixty, which doesn't really Ko anything, and so you're spending multiple turns pulling things up to try and Kao them eventually, and they'll just keep retreating until like a doll or a a ranger or whatever, and it gives them lots of turns to just mill you. You know, sure you're spending so much time whereas like so like. What's the point, I guess, of playing the Drudagon, you know, because you already can drag stuff up with like catchers and one hit Koh it if that's your goal, and you only need to realistically do that twice, you know, maybe even less, depending on like how the game pans out for the Cincino deck. So I don't really see it being mystery. I do kind of like the criogonal and I saw someone in chat was asking in the reason I like it a specifically an ATP is because you can pressure all the dolls off the board and they can't put any more down, so forces another pokemon up. And with ATP specifically only need to Ko at three pokemon on that aren't dolls. Right, you're usually going to take that first one because they're trying to set up, you know, and or they are they're trying to get back resources or something early in the game. It's often, I find, harder to you know, to get sometimes just pull the dolls out of your deck, like the the the deck can sometimes take a little while to get its motors going and so, you know, usually take that one. Then you might get into the the flow of things be able to get a dollar or two down. But yeah, like you said, pressuring them off the board with cryagonal is huge and doing the forty damage is very, very relevant right it the car going to without the forty also kind of feels like it gives them the benefit of time, which is not great. But while it's doing forty, you know you're not you're not even trying to Kou angry as with it. You can just put like an eskateboard on it or something, throw it up chaos and dolls. They promote and her anger and you retreat. Knock out the ranger and all of a sudden now you take in a third of your price cards. So I like that a lot. In theory it's doesn't even necessarily feel like a necessary tech for ATP it feels like ATP. Can definitely beat dolls or to mill without it, but with it it feels like a super like doable game state that you can build for yourself. Sure, I saw another person in chast you got make them pay. That previously was like a popular card to deal with some sort of like stall archetypes. I don't think the mill deck necessarily even builds a big enough hand to knock them well with make them pay. They play with a decently small hand size a lot of the time and I generally feel like the things that you would want to discard in the late game, I think of like Pal pad, is just something that they're going to play. You know, it's really especially if they know that you have the Persian right. Yes, I just I don't really see it working out that well.

And then what do you think, Riley, of like a very soft counter, like playing your own rang group? I don't really think that works because if you're taking prizes, you're going to activate their surge. So I guess you're playing your own anger. You're just saying you're not going to do anything and try and tie, which I guess could work, but it doesn't seem like it would be that good, you know. Yeah, I mean the idea for me would be if you're playing pokemon catchers, maybe you get one extra chance to gust. But yeah, again, I think if you're playing a non ATP deck, even the like, even the turns that you're able to gust, you have to really make the most out of them, and a lot of these non ATP decks can't do that because they're only taking, you know, one prize, right. I mean the deck I was really thinking of a ranger and would have been peak ram to try and get catchers back. And but just like the deck, the deck takes price is so slow against the mill deck that it doesn't even feel like catchers necessarily or the maker break, especially if they play hammers and his hammer off, you know, five energy and you just kind of are dead in the water, right, because you have to use to have any hope. You have to use tag bolt effectively in that right at, which which feels so bad because it's like, if they play two of you, it's basically over. If they play one, you could hope they like whip it on a turn, but even then it's like that's obviously horrible. So yeah, it's just funny how we went from Pidgy and you know, you could reasonably have like a I'd say, a pretty good matchup if you were able to get the zero Orra GX attack off. But then it's a completely different strategy in this format, with this mill where, yeah, there are feels usefuls. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean I think there's. I think it's kind of deck specific. I think mewtwo decks and ATPDX are the best x into Mil and anything else feels kind of rough, no matter what you do to it. What what is the strength of mew two that that makes you feel like it's good in the mile? Are you saying the Mewtwo Alamar or potentially, potentially both? I mean both of them could take theoretically take advantage of Stinger blound if they wanted to. Me Too. Alamar specifically has trevor more, which is potentially helpful and conjunction with Marni, I can force them into Weird Board states. But I think the Stinger is probably the primary strategy used in Metuo, Alamar and me too, welder, you can you can use stuff like spondaxs. You can also Stinger if you care to do that. Yeah, and you come our cargo gx and catch them slipping lake game that and, like I was saying earlier, if you really are convinced that the matchup as a problem for you, you can, and you're playing my cargo g acts, you can play your own Belowa, and I really don't think that the mill player can play around eight. Sure, sure, absolutely cool. All right. Well, since you know very good deck, where would you put it on your Tier List? Like where, where do you think it it lies? I mean, I think we're both an agree. It's it's a very good deck. So now it comes down to would you put it as like the deck to beat, or would you put it as a tier one selection? I think for D deck to be I'd still stand of everywhere last week and I think they seen ATP, SAUCI and Sasa, and I'm still like a little UN sure out of pronounce it, but I think I think ATP is probably still the deck to beat because it's just pretty freaking good man. It does kind of everything you'd want out of a deck and takes extra prizes as a lot of damage, acceleries energy like that. All seems good to me. It's very consistent. I think Cinchino is probably in the top three, two, four decks and I think really, I think if it wasn't for the fact that it's struggled against ATP, that it would actually be, you probably the deck to beat. Yeah, yeah, it's good that we're I mean we're both in agreeiance that the Cincino to deck does, you know, have an unfavorable matchup into ATP with four catcher. Okay, just just want to make that like just clear so everybody knows that's kind of our stance. I don't think it's extremely unfavorable, but you know, I think a forty matchup. You know, there are ways you can finagle. Obviously, if you're the Cincino player and you are able to prevent them from getting a turn one, two or Secas me, turn two, three, four gx attack off as the ATP player, then you're in obviously a much better position. But I do just feel like in that war of attrition that ATP is going to win, that going to come out on top. You know, the the Cincino players going to flip tails a few times on the crushing hammers and eventually overtake overtake the the game. So that's cool.

So what would you put as your other top decks? You say a TPSATION, you say cin Chino and then you said there's maybe three to four that you would put in this kind of upper tier. Yeah, and I looked it up. It's a it is Sauchi and confirmed. So well, I don't know how they say in the anime. Have they appeared in the Nime yet? I don't think that's true. I think you're just making that up. Oh, sorry, I said too much. You've leaked the anime. Gosh, I like lost my brain. First I got there, I think the other and no, I'm gonna get so the other other decks I put up. There was a sheen. I would say that mewtwo variants are kind of all up there. I think welderm you two still is pretty good. Being able to three hundred turned to, being the only deck that can reliably do three hundred turn too is insane still and really shouldn't be sleft on. We actually saw that today Matt prices on stream at full grip and just completely blue as ash and deck out of the water by doing three hundred turned too and knocking out a ATP and it had a big charm on that mew too, so it wouldn't be ocoded by his Ashen. So I like that. But I still think the the Amulam arm you two has potential. I'm a little less inclined to play it, kind of like you're alluding to last week, because of the fact you know, it's a Malmar deck. It has a lot of inherent things going on and it I guess you could say it's not necessarily inconsistent, but there's just a lot more moving parts that you have to get operating as opposed to just like a simple, like Gerrachi and attached energy kind of deck. That sure, the other top decks are. I think Peter I'm is still a top to your contender is a really strong deck. It gets gets the job done versus most things, but it's really bad against the mill deck, which, yeah, that's kind of right. That's kind of the problem though, to me. He also peak ROM has a as a slightly unfavorable matchup against atps option and to have a bad and in some cases almost almost unwinnable matchup against, you know, to the top decks while beating everything else, it just feels like the metagame isn't correct for Peek Arram right now. Right, I think Peek Rom could finesse Zash in a little bit harder stuff like big charms could potentially be really helpful. I think big charm actually it's a card I initially overlooked, but so now that they're seeing that, I'm seeing like the math workout for the she and it makes more and more sense to me to start including it in decks because it really it messes up that math quite a bit, especially against as she and I think is where you'll notice that impact the hardest. Yeah, right, also, again, speaker on to like that's an extra electric power which honestly could be a gate pepper. That's huge. Yeah, that's it's a that's massive actually. So I don't know, like Peter Rob's, I could definitely see trying that out to potentially have a better is Aha matchup. I don't think it's terrible, though, like I think I think it's winnable, whereas the mail matchup feels like a nightmare. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. It's just it's super tough there. And Yeah, the going back to the big charm, I think you're hitting on a really good point here, because big charm does feel kind of like this, this card that's that's on the up and up in the metagame, and I say oupen up. The the metagame really isn't developed. You know, we've seen maybe a handful of tournaments, less than a handful of tournaments, just being streamed on twitch of people playing and then, you know, whatever results people are showing in their youtube videos of playing on the ladder. But this card seems like it's on the up and up just for, like you said, adding a little bit of more difficulty in right numbers. Yeah, and it's definitely a card that it overlood when I was buying cards to so catch. Yah, because we've had, you know, we've had metal frying Pan, which is a pretty good inclusion, although some people are taking it out of ATP Station, and we've had things like choice helmet in the past that didn't really see a ton of play, but maybe this changes now. I don't know. The the plus thirty just general HP might just be better than any other, you know, damage modifying tool that we've had in the past. Additionally, we don't see a lot of lysander labs. That's right, because actually thinking today, because decks are playing buck padding I could totally see ATPS option coming to play lysander labs and, like you know, instead of getting damage with shine or band like, they just play a couple of zigzagoons or something. Yeah, this is where this is the place my mind is going. It's like really, things are messed up. Yeah, you'd things are crazy, I do,...

...but for real that I could definitely see that happening. Now. Granted, you lose utility and like your your metal frying pans get worse, your skateboards get worse, but if everybody's playing big charm and I like negatively impacts you, I don't see why you wouldn't try and beat it. Sure, so cool. Okay, so that's kind of like the top of the top decks. They are, at least it overview of them. Is there any other one that you'd like to specifically dive into? Do you have any particular thoughts on like a mute variant or maybe peak rom that you want to touch on? Um, not particularly. It kind of almost feels, I don't want to say worthless, but it feels kind of fruitless maybe to talk about a lot of these other decks, because I I feel like the good decks are so good that they they just really bully a lot of these other tier two or tier three decks out. Like a lot of these things are almost unplayable. There are there is a lot of interest in sable eye goons. I see so many people online and it kind of annoys me because they'll appear like any time I deck appears, they'll be like, well, this will lose to an obstacle. So I do I do feel like we should say sometime and and discuss why. I stable agoons is a deck that's on a lot of people's radar. I mean, if we want to discuss why, I think it is a one word answer and it's obstruct. You know, is the deck even remotely possible to work without obstruct? Right? No, exactly. So I mean, like I just don't like it's there. I'm sure plenty of games were don't even get too obstruct, which is problematic in of itself, right. That being said, obstruct is good against a lot of decks, at least once he gets the hood on. So you don't get fe owned because you got to get the hood on as well. But even then that you have to you probably have to rare candy up and obstacoon to get it to work and you have to get two attachments on it, which there's no acceleration, so you just kind of have to get them. I guess you could do some like weird cocoa for some kind of thing, coca. HMM. Oh, yeah, I guess you don't even need the paint rush. Yeah, you just need one dark with US agon. The sable I needs too dark. Yeah, but like I feel like the same lie barely even matters, you know. Yeah, I don't know what the sable eye is doing in these and these decks, like the obstacleon just feels like they're like if obstruct as it. When you the game. I don't think sable I will either. Right. So I don't know. It's like kind of entertaining to me, though, because Google definitely has like a group of like very daddy outspoken supposers, yeah, which is very entertaining. It is really entertaining. I don't know if I would even put it as like a tier two deck unless someone find something that breaks it, yeah, which I don't. I haven't found that yet. Maybe maybe someone's got the secret goons deck that they're going to bring to O see. I see. I mean it should be position pretty well, I think the one kind of curiosity in the format would probably be mew to Malamar, just in the sense that you could, you know, if you play Ditto in that deck, you could evolve into something to knock out something. Yeah, I mean there's a you know what I mean. Well, like also any mewtwo that could just play a Grinnina. That's true. That's true. Yeah, but you don't want shot, though, which is the problem. Who Cares? Like Greninja, but then the goon's deck could play Mimi Cu. I'm saying, what if you play your ownest Elthy Hood though? Well, well, then they could play lesstander lads. Then you fee on their goons. I think we got to get you. Probably do have to play the five card package to make sure you have goods on. It's just the more we talk, the more Convalu to the gets you have. Like a third of your deck is just to make sure that you beat obstacle consistently. The gears are turning. Yeah, so I guess if you take away anything from this episode, it's that you definitely cannot lose dagons going to rext couple. Well, I just think that Fion is such a popular card in a lot of the big archetypes and and goons to me should just struggle with ATP again, where we keep coming back to that. But I do feel like it's solidified itself as the...

...single steer deck. Like this deck is a deck that a lot of people could just take and play, I feel like this entire format and and perform well, like it's one of those decks that you just it's so solid by itself, doesn't really have a good counter and right it just go far. You know, it should just carry somebody. For the rest of right, I guess, if you want a realistic answer for ygoons probably will never work, even if they have the hood to Dodge Fione. Eight people almost certainly knock out the first thing before you get an obstacle in going with abstract and then they have to only gust two things to win. Yeah, so exact. It's crazy. It's crazy, pretty crazy, man. God, gotta say that's a little crazy. I love to say gotta say was something absurdd after it. That's something I've been doing a lot, but I like play league with my friends like Gott us, not Blah Blah. This is so stid cool. So, yeah, we're not a huge goods they whether some other though, like decks that you could see on the precipice of success right now. You did your own tier list. Yeah, like a week ago. What are the decks that are occupying at like tier to? Yeah, it's here too. I had I had, say lagoons. I had big blow Cephalon. That seems like a deck that could work. I haven't put enough, you know, thought into it in this format. Seems like I'm decent enough deck. You know, maybe you have some ways to beat, you know, a lot of the other contenders. Obviously the mew two matchups don't really change all that much. I against would still worry about ATP Zation with that Bliss cephalon deck. I have a whimscot deck seems fine, you know, not great, not horrible, kind of occupying that mid tier. Guarch on Guillotina, another deck seemed that seems just decent. Again, I don't think it has what it takes to overcome ATP. That's kind of just the big gatekeeper of this format. But let's go down into the tier three. What I had in my video here was real a boom at tier three is started, a gain a little bit of traction. We're started has yeah and well, and it was a card that I initially thought would be pretty good. I think if we go back to some of the previous podcast episodes, I was saying, you know, it's probably not tier one, you know it's probably not a great deck, but it does have some merit to it and we're finally starting to see people either build it correctly or, you know, just just play it. You know, we're finally starting to see it get played and it's doing decently enough. I think the GX attack from the from the aloon on executor Roulett is amazing and being able to pull that off consistently is a huge moon to the deck. You also have things like Shaymin prism, which is a decent one prize attacker. You can couple that with like the Snivey Venosaur, which can gust for free, or I mean for an attachment, but without enough. It's kind of like it has some good parts to it. I don't I think it's a little bit too linear, but I mean it it's making a case for itself. It's definitely not as definitely I'm not a deck that is unplayable. Yeah, I think. I think bill of it is actually decent. I I it's just like a little bit lacking right now and it might benefit more in future sets when it gets a better pool of cards to work with. What he has going for it right now is if it gets a head, it's really easy to stay ahead, and so, like if you get that six energy Ralllett egg attack off a lot of x, I can't do anything about that. You know, they just lose. So I always like go back to gram because that was the first that I built in this format and I've been playing a lot of online, especially in events, to like try and get more packs and stuff. And when I was playing peak ram, you know, if I have to like burn a bunch of my accelerations, like the cocoa and the thunder mountain typically go pretty early so I can try and get full blitz is off and then if they get that six energy attack off, I just lose because I have to attach three times that am pokemon. So yeah, and not granted, half the Games though, they didn't get that attack off, but the other half they did and I lost. Right. That's what that's what I think is like. If the egg row deck can stay ahead or get ahead. Rather it'll stay ahead because it kind of like it presses you out of the game. Yeah, yeah, I mean I would say that real a boom is better than frostmoth at this point. I don't know sure I'm UND presenting Ghir, but I mean real a boom has like a seat at the table. I think it might be at the kids table, but it's in the conversation, you know, and I think it is just taking like the correct list or the correct because I think there are a few ways...

...to build it. You know, you could obviously build it, I just pure grass type. You could build it with mew two. There are just different you know. You could build it kind of more requasa center. There's just a few different and even more ways than I'm not saying right now, but they're just a few different ways to play it and I think the more that that decks gets explored, the more success it, you know, should have. Yeah, I think Frost smoth really suffered as well from just not having good attackers to use with it. The best one is probably lap well, I don't want to say laughter is even the best one. Keldo is probably the most efficient one, but it's hard to get all the damage unique consistently with it. And then laperus does more damage, but it gets the three prizes and it speak to peak rom so that's kind of unfortunate. This right at least. And you know that's all predicated on the fact you can find your energy quickly, which will be a lot easier next format when you have like the buckets, the disgusting bucket. Yeah, well, we'll see. The jury is still out, though. I don't know if the bucket is going to be I don't think the bucket will break the deck because there's that attackers to break the deck. Yet sure, sure, but I love the bucket like there's zero percent chance, if I'm playing it like a water type deck, that I'll ever play professor's letter over the bucket. Oh No, fuck it, for sure, and the bucket is a way better guard. Another deck that I think we do deserve to hit on, though, and we were bigger on this deck in the past, I think, and we have kind of like faded out of our brains a little bit, is the baby Blue Stephal on deck. So that deck was looking huge. Lucky egg and either Greens or ability, both were looking like Bible options. I think we both kind of aired towards ability just because it could play mew and peak ram was looking like the deck to beat. Not so much anymore. I don't think peak ROM is the deck to be, but still a top deck. What your current thoughts on the baby the Stuffalon Deck? Are they still a top tier contender? Are they kind of just resting just below the top decks? Are they worse than that? You know, what are your thoughts? It's just a deck that I need some more testing with. I've been seeing as Zul play the list a lot on the ladder. Seems like it's doing pretty decently. I like his inclusion of the or Choreo Gx, I think, or that's what it was right, or Careo g X. that's a drawer you extra cards. That seems very good in kind of in place of the lucky eggs. I think the deck is fine. It's just like a deck that I need a lot more, a lot more testing with. You know, it's one deck that's on my radar for sure as being, I think, just under the top tier, but could get there because a lot of the top tiers focused around, you know, Gx or the two prize or three prize attackers. Yeah, I think I'm kind of a fan of the deck. I at least it's very fun to play. I know one thing you mentioned is little that as was trying out, and maybe the suraginated from elsewhere was the be springer, and so with that, if you against ATPS ACIEN or Zashi, and I'm still getting used to it, is you can take that first knockout on the ATP and then you've taken four prizes now, so knocking at the Ash and actually winsie the game at that point. So that seems like a kind of cool development and that could potentially be useful in other matchups as well, but definitely a good idea for the ATP match out I think the deck is still pretty good, though I think it might struggle in some areas, just like consistency. Wise it's not always easy get up and running, and if decks play more stamps in the future that could also be rough. But I think right now it's actually decently poised to do well in the metagame. You know, the price rates pretty crazy right right least as tag team decks, and you know ATP and Youtube are both seeing probably the most play in the format right now. So yeah, seems viable enough to me. Absolutely absolutely hit on some good points there. So I think that's that's a good that's a good wrap up of Blis Cephalon and really a good overview of the decks in in contention right now for OC I see. I think that just about covers it. I don't know of anything kind of rogue or that we haven't seen yet. I mean I think the biggest like rogue deck to come out was obviously this sin Chino mill, which wasn't really a rogue because it was played in Japan and we basically already had the list, but I got to ignore it. It like yeah, yeah, right. I digress. I think that everything that we've that we've talked about is is already out there. I think we're going to see some variation of what we've already seen in the next few weeks and the next big tournaments. Yeah, I'm definitely excited to see what comes out of it. So I we don't have to spend a ton of time of it. But I know people are asking and I know you've done testing and Collinsville is actually the first regional that we're going to in this format and that is expanded. So, J W, you're a classic x. This year you've like basicallyly just been the expanded group because it's all you've gone to, which is really...

...like odd. Yeah, I don't know, it's just whatever. It just like worked out that way. That that's all I can good to. It's expected events. So I know you could experiences fermenting with expanded what are some decks that you're liking right now, and why do you like those decks in particular? Well, I'm going to say I think right now the deck that I would just tell anyone to play is turbosastion. That thing is just filthy because it's more energy efficient than dark ry, but and it also doesn't need anything like it also has the inherent draw power that kind of overcomes that turn one barrier of not being able to play a supporter. It's just ridiculously strong. I've played maybe an hour or two of that on ladder, both on my stream and off my stream, and it's been solidly beating almost anything that I bring it. I don't know that I've had self inflicted losses, let's just say that, but everything that I've played smart against I've beaten and so it feels very, very strong. I mean, obviously I'm not playing against like the highest tier caliber players on the ladder, but it just goes to show the inherent strength of the deck that it's just running over what we thought was good last format. And one of the best things about this Zacian deck is that I'm going to swing right back to it, is that it's almost unaffected by this turn one rule, or more so unaffected than any other deck, because we're open ability. You have the inherent draw, so you're going to be able to at the very least try to accelerate, try to draw a few cards. You're not as stuck in dead hands as you would be with some other decks. I will say if you're looking the you know go to Collinsville or you have an expanded thing coming up, just look to the biggest change that I've made in all my decks is cutting trainer's mail for quick ball and in sometimes, in some cases, even cutting ultra ball for quick ball, and that's just because it's a little bit more efficient way to search out your basics. So oftentimes I'll have an ultra ball and I'm just going to try to go for, you know, a draw pokemon at dednn a a shame in a lately and in a lot of cases to when you have trainers mail, you're just going to look for the ultra ball. So why not just cut the trainer's mail, cut the crap and just play more, you know, basic right. And so I think like if you're looking to build lists, really take into effect quick ball, because I think it is one of the best boons for consistency in expanded right now that we got from sword and shield. I would say turbo dark probably stays good. I don't know if it's as good as Ashen and expanded, just because you need more energy to do things. But you have a little bit more tricks that you can do. You know, you have things like save a Liye Tranatar, you have things like Gus Lord, you have things like guys Lord Gx. There's a few more spooky things that you can do. You have an automatic inclusion of an evolution if you decide to play the we vile line, so that maybe helps you get around things like vile plume. I think dark is probably good, although I just I can't say with confidence that it's better or as good as Zytion and then egg grow probably stays up there in a similar list to what we saw from Dallas. And there's one other deck. Oh, we were talking a little bit about snore lax. That's another deck that I really want to get on the ladder and test because that feels like another strong contender, just having that high HP. If you know, zation struggles to hit cope isn't understatement. Yeah, sation to struggles to hit those numbers. So being able to do that is huge. Being able to hit for one shots while not getting one shot in return. It's huge. Yeah, I I personally was definitely a star lack stand before even diving into the expanded format at all. Yeah, just seems Super Fun and super good. It kind of reminds me of Zarch deck. The only thing that is kind of annoying about it is the draw pokemon and the attacking pokemon aren't the same pokemon anymore. But I guess if strokes that trade, that would probably be, you know, be like a little bit much, I think. So it's like it's cool, like I get a right, right, right, but yeah, I mean a's Acien or Zashian. Sashian deck seems pretty efficient. It does a lot of damage very quickly, has the draw ability, which is super valuable right now, and the expanded format being let's you go first, the less of a penalty. So I think that's pretty good. So do you have any there's two questions I'll ask you. First off, do you play any evolution cards to deal with Vio Plume? And second off,...

...do you prefer it to be a more straightforward version or do you prefer a counter energy version? I think that that you would want to play at least one stealthy hood, potentially to stealthy hood, potentially one stealthy hood and a dawsing machine. I think if you just play the one, you should be able to because you can one shot the the a lolan executor roulette pretty easily. You know, all you need is the choice band and one delms down, assuming you play, you know, one or two. You know you just need one Dell Mys or you need one zigzagoon if you decide to play that, or you know, I don't know, one shrine to Dick. I guess you know. They're just place. They are ways to place the damage. That's like not plus power hypnotoxic laser. But if you can one shot plus bear. I know, right, that could be. But if you can one shot the rolet egg before they get too much of a board state, and I think the too much of a board state is like getting up too of the basic bioblums, then you should be pretty good from there, and they might not even have enough of a board state to the point where they can lock you out of the getting the Stealthy Hood attached to a bench station. So I think just the one is probably going to be enough to swing that matchup in your favor, and that's where I would look to go with this Zaan in terms of playing zation straight or with Josh and. I looked it up. Remember. Hey, I'm leaking again. You're literally leaking in terms of Zashen straight ORSASHEN counter energy. I'm leaning more towards the ZASHEN counter energy. Feels like I have a few more options. The Pseudo Wudo isn't insane card right now. You hit dark for weakness, you hit, you know, potentially snore, lax, slax Max for wax, Max for weakness. That seems just so strong, as well as potentially, you know, doing other cool you know tricky that. I don't know. You would hit Zoroark for weakness. I don't know if that's really relevant anymore. But of course why now, right? But the Studo woudos just so good, and then you're already playing the counter. So I just say, hey, why not play an ENTA? That can kind of help you swing the mirror matchup. And so I prefer the counter energy version. I could see somebody just going straight and that being perfectly acceptable as well, but I do think studo widows too good. And then the other cool thing is that counter energy works on the Zaans. So like, what the heck option? I let it slide for a little bit. I was just going to correct you every time. All right, Zob Sheshan, next episode is just going to be me pronouncing Zhashin over and an hour. Yeah, maybe we'll make that a bonus episode. We've tried talk about Zashi and decks for an hour and every time, no, say something wrong, you get like kind of eyes somehow. No, yeah, I could be fun. I have the I have the collar or something and I get a shot color. It's pretty awesome, I gotta say. Yeah, so I don't know. So that's my thoughts on on the that version of the deck. Cool. So, yeah, I think there's a lot to be uncovered and expanded, but it seems like fast decks are any good spot right now, like being able to play through your deck with quickball. They kind end of can draw a lot of cards without a junior per turn one and they can attack turn to for a lot of energy regardless of whether they go first or second. So seems kind of like they're in good spot. We saw, you know, Roxy Chomp Win Dallas despite there being a lot of things like shock lock, despite there being decent stall decks out there. I think of like the Reggie Rock doll stall. Despite despite things like that, we saw just a big attacking deck win, and that would lead me to believe that, you know, the mill archetype didn't really gain anything from sword and shield that I can that I can think of immediately. You know, that just as like an autoinclusion in any type of mill or stall deck. And so I'm focusing right now on just all the big attacking decks and I think that's probably where where I would suggest a lot of people go right I think you start there. I think there's potential. If if there is potential for like a Miller stall deck. I think Shinchino can kind of open the door to that a little bit. or I mean even stuff like a wall type of deck. They'll, I promise, These v Pokmon just like yeah, yeah, no, all right now. That's the huge problem with you know, Hoopo was amazing last format. WHOPA was so criminally underrated in the pre sword and shield expanded format, but now that we have Pokemon v that card is just worthless. Yeah,...

I I agree, man. So I think you start with the attacking decks. If there's some kind of like energy removal control deck, I think Chinchino opens the door to that, but that will take like more developed understanding of what the Meta game will look like to really get an idea of where to go with it. Would you agree? I would agree. Yeah, cool. So that's our view. In two expanded right now, jolly flying man calls out Dialgo Gx in Zashi and I could definitely see that being an option. Timeless gx is pretty good, good, but I think it rains to be seen how these decks will pan out. So now will open the floor to chat. I think there are already some comments or questions that we can get to in here. Will Answer. You know, about four to five questions and then we'll sign up for the day. Thank you all so much for for tuning in. Yeah, and guys, thank you so much for the viewership. I want to say here we just had in the last month with our last four episodes, we had a total of eleven hundred plus downloads, which is just insane how much it's grown in the just really these last few months. It's been really great to have the support. So thank you, guys, for supporting this podcast. It makes this feel wanted and it makes us feel that we're producing content that people want to here, want to have, want to listen to. So thank you for that. Yeah, I mean the support has been amazing, especially in the last month or so. I think we've really kind of blown up a little bit and you know, we recognize that and appreciate every single one of you, whether you've been here for the past year or whether you've been here for a day. So thank you all so much. Matt Crab asking when is oc I see that is going to be this next weekend here and actually I saw earlier someone's asking top three decks for OCC for both of us, I think we're probably more or less an agree as I'll say mine first. I think ATP SASHIAN is going to be the number one for both of us right now. We've both like that deck for at least two weeks now and nothing is really changed to make us dislike it. In fact, some things may have even made us like it more. Yeah, I think mew two decks are probably my second pick. I think I like the welder versions a lot right now, but I could see some merit in the Malley versions. And then I do think Cinchino is good enough to make it like a third pick for me. HMM, I would say I would agree with your first two there, and then I would put blows Cephalon as like the third deck, but I just need a lot more testing with it. It's not like I don't know, I couldn't tell you. Oh, you know, what's your list that you would take? I don't know that quite yet, but it's a deck that I would look into for ocice. So I guess you know, a top pick, meaning a top pick for me to test heading into the tournament. Yeah, America, I've asking about peak ram. Peak Ram is definitely a top tier deck. I think it struggles a little too much against the mill deck for me to want to take it to a large tournament at the moment, although it's like definitely possible that mill fades out over time, at the moment I think it's very, very popular. Yeah, so when? Yes, I can know. Yeah, we were discussing this in the group chat. We think that the mill deck is very popular because it's pretty easy compared to other like mill stall decks, and you know that that's that's huge. You know that's you're consideration there. So pokemon breeders. Asking another interesting question. If you're going to Collinsville, which we both are, what is one deck that you don't want to take a loss to? Man? MMM, it's tough because I don't I don't know what beats Zashen and expanded, but I guess I would just say like I wouldn't want to take a loss to egg row. Yeah, I think taking a hard loss to egg row would be a bad idea. I don't think you, like want to have a terribly bad boss against ash and either, because I think people are even outside of the JW and I world that we live in, people are catching onto the fact that card is pretty good. So, you know, I would at least try and take the fifty sash and I think right exactly, might me just playing Zashi, but you know, I mean it might. Yeah, that's a good way to get a fifty's play the exact sixty. Cool. Any other things that we wanted to hit on this week? anither questions from chat or comments that you wanted to make about sword and field developing JW. I just feel like this format is very fresh. Even though it feels like we have this defined steer deck in atps option, I do still feel like there's a lot to discover about the format. Again, we are talking about...

...this kind of cyclical nature of things where you know, something like Restram charsard welder could make its way back it being a very relevant deck after sure, after kind of looking like it maybe couldn't hold a candle to some of these other decks, and that's just kind of interesting. It's fun to see how it'll unfold. I'm not going to O see, I see, Riley, you're not going to OCIC. So we'll be able to watch these and really kind of dissect what players are bringing to the table. I'm excited to see like any unique text unique decks. Maybe someone will finally make goons work and I'll be off. Dudes, windsocic. That would be the headline that I would look forward to, and I'm sure there are funny of other people who would is well. So that'll bring us to the close this week. Thank you all again for your viewership and support, and we will catch you all next week. Same play, same time piece,.

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