Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 11 · 1 year ago

2-10. Limitless Potential

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Get ready for the Limitless Qualifier 1! The boys break down the expected meta for an unprecedented online event!

What is up, everybody welcome back totag team, the POKMON trading card games, premier podcasting duo. My name isRyley Holbert and I'm joined by my good friend, JW Cree Wall Gw. How are youdoing today Briley doing great? How were you I am doing spectacular, my guyjust thriving and quarantine. You that's right. I mean we got tit, we'rethere right where we're kind of inundated. Now, what was not normalbefore is the new normal. I guess so man, I guess so, have youdone anything cool to pass the time and the past week, or so, let's see my wifeand I have been playing a lot of board games. We checked a few out from thelibrary, which means that we will probably have them for potentially therest of the year, which you know it's you know has itspluses of minuses. I guess but yeah we have this. One game called site anYeathat's I on it is like the most board hardcore board game right thatyou forgokat, isn't it I mean it's it really. I mean it is, but it also isn't.I mean it's it's one of those things where it's like. If you know how toplay these kinds of artisinal board games, then you'll understand what'sgoing on, but I could only imagine for a new player. You know because it'slike and then I move this were and then I do what to this and it unlacks thisability and it just GE convoluted. I you know for a new player, a lot oftexts and things like that. The rulebook actually is funny, so we setit up on day one. It took the whole table, the whole dining room O, and you knowhow big that is, but it took the hold dining room table and then day to weread the rulebook and then day three. We played the game. That was like theson, my God, because Anne was Ann was doing a bunchof stuff at work. It's just like okay, I can only handle so much, and so wespent like an hour putting it together. Our reading the rules San that weplayed on the third day so itwas it was pretty intense, Oh man, so do you endup winning? I did, but I think I had a broken. Ihad a broken team: okay, okay, yeah. I feel that for sure- and I tookadvantage of Anne- you know it was her first time La it was my first timeplaying, but I was like, let's just be really aggressive and try to end thegame really quickly and I think with my faction that ended up being the correctchoice. Interesting. So what's your? What's your favorite board game thatyou've played recently then well, we've been playing a ton and if everybodywho's been listening to my streams, I've been raving about this game, butwe've been playing terroforming Mars right. Have you played this game? Riley? No,but you have lightly told me about it. We will have to play. It is probably myfavorite game of all time- wow like maybe second to Pokemon, but eventhen it's like hard. If I had to get rid of my Gosh Yeah. No, it consumesour life ere. Actually, in the middle of a game right now, RWE were trying toplay one really quickly, and then you know we're doing the cast now. So it'sjust consuming my life, the the. I think. What really does it is likewhen, when the art style of the game, the concept of the game and themechanics of the game all work together in tandem to plaers, just thisbeautiful thought provoking piece of art and it'sa lot of kind of building your resources, but then spending to getthings and then it's kind of territorial with the board and there'sjust a lot of different ways that you can play at a lot of different waysthat you can approach the game and that's what makes it fun and engagingand makes us want to play it over and over. That's awesome, yeah I'll, beexcited to check that out one day and it's definitely one of those gameswhere, like playing it in person, is the one of the biggest joys of it likeyou can do it online is probably fine online, but like just feeling thepieces playing everything down. It's just honestly. I'm like A- I don't knowif I want to say purist, but I like to play board games an in person. You knowyea, it's an experience, design to be a board game. I wanted to be in boardgame form. You know right if it's designed to be a computer game, that'sfine I'll play it on the computer ofh, my friends, but right you know it hasto be built to that audience. I feel like end how about you? What have youbeen up to? I don't think I've had anything asexciting as a Revolutionary World Bending Board Game Experience, but yea I' I've been having fun. I've beenplaying a lot of animal crossing and that's been pretty cool. I alsoplaying a lot of teamfight tactics, which is the most frustrating game ofall time. I'm pretty sure...

I could rat forever about the way thatthey balance and and Buil team by tactics, but I havefun still my friends and I hover around DiamondBrad. You Gotten Masters yesterday and then fell out today, so he's back indiamond with the rest of us. What's the what's the like rankingsystem for TFT, I played a little bit when it first came out, but you knownever put that much time into it to learn all that stuff. It's basically Elo but hidden, and it'shidden, the it's masked in the form of like these leagues and League points, and but basically is Elo and it's teeredoff into different teers. And so it goes from like iron to bronze to allthe way to diamond, and it follows a pretty natural progression, theyre likesilver goal, platinum diamond and there's masters, and then the top twohundred masters Ar Challenger and Chal grop changes every day, depending onwho the top two hundred actually are Gotcha and they actually just announcelike the competitive thing, their planning to do with TFT so that they'regoing to bring the top x amount of players for a qualifier event and sobased on your ladder, ranking you can get invited to that and then you'll play off to go to theworld championship which is pretty cool. I don't think I'm really contention foranything like that, but I think it's a fun game and I'd be interested to watchand see how that hands out is so you say when Brady's an master is he likein contentionor was in masteris he in contention for something like that. Maybe one day I think I think Brady and I and all of ourother friends who play are still a little bit short of reaching that skilllevel. But I guess you could, if you pourt itover from pokevide, where, like the kind of people who like are veryinterested in like learning from mistakes and getting better at thingsand, of course, he's a applied here, an tag team all the time. So so it's likeyou know, I would love to apply that idea that I use in Pokemon to anothersort of competitive outlet. In the meantime, when tournaments are a littlemore sparse, little less parse little more sparssparse is like not so often yes. Well, there are notournaments now right. So it's very spars. It is verypars Wy way say so. Your sentence again Hol San you a little more sparse Wehah, but in reference to what turnvents the tournaments now are very sparse,yeah, they're Sotheyr, more spars, now, whatever whatever I just. I guess I missherd youin context. I don't know what you're Oan wel speaking of Wush, though there isactually a tournament, not a sanctioned one wunt a tournament coming up thisweekend and I think you're on deck to be participating in that JW. So if you haven't familiarized yourselfwith it from the past couple weeks, you've referenced it a couple times,but there's the limitless qualifier, which is an online incredibly largePOKOMON trading card game. Tournament kind of the first of its kind reallyand really ambitious project, really excited to see how it pans out. Butit's going to be in the sorand shield format, kind of the one that weabandoned midway through in favor of quarantinie ourselves in our homes. You know, I'm not sure exactly howit'll pan out but JW. I know you're looking to participate. What are yourinitial thoughts on what this tournamentwill look like? Well, I'm really excited again, likeI've been saying. The last couple weeks participated in the first iteration ofthe tournament that one didn't quite go as planned and they ended up having tomove back a couple weeks, but this Saturday looking to play somewherearound Eightheen to twenty rounds of Pokemon, depending on how many peoplesign up and that should be really fun. I missplaying best of one in such a wide number of rounds. That was the formatfor regionals. When I first started, we would play somewhere around. You know nine to twelve roundsdepending on the size of the tournament, and that was always just fun becauseyou went there, you played one match and then you were done. It wasn't likenow, where you know you kind of have to suffer through a second match if you'rein a bad, matchup you're. Just like okay yeah, you on and like you get outof there and is you know no big deal I feel like it was a little more casualback then now thes two out of three is a little bit more strategic, which alsohas benefits. But I don't know it just it reminds me ofwhen I first started playing and that's...

...kind of a cool thing. Yeah, certainly awholesome, take on it. What are your thoughts on like the nature of best of one, withmore rounds versus best of three? Do you think one is like more eflective of skill or asuperior tournament format, or do you think you know they both have?Obviously they both havein their own merits, but yeah. Do you think one isjust a little bit better and stronger in those regards, or what do you thinkyeah I mean, I think best. Two out of three is pretty standard just for aboutany competitive game. You know. Obviously you would rather have likebest of a hundred, but at some point you have to cut it for time. I think one of themajor issues that were looking to avoid that we kind of saw in the two plusrounds of the original limilist imitational was how long rounds would take. I think maybethe people at you know Limelis whoever Ros running the tournament, maybedidn't anticipate there being you know these issues where they two playerswould go to time and then they need to call in a judge and the judge wouldhave to resolve a dispute, and you know that just takes time and ads to round.So, even though we're on a twenty five thirty minute timer, certainly therewill be some kind of extensions going on between the rounds, whether it'sjust to get things paired or resolve a conflict. I do anticipate the tournament to go on the longer side ofa projected amount of time rather than the shorter sen. so when you say thelonger side, do you have any sense of what that might look like? Well, I mean,if you're thinking you know, there's a twenty five minute timer, like thirtyminutes on each round, whoare saying twenty rounds, I mean then you'relooking at at minimum ten hours, so I would saylike thirteen to fourteen hours, potentially wow yeah, that's definitelya lot of pokomon sit is it is? Would you have preferred it if this waslike a best of three with you know nine rounds into I, you know seven round daytwo or something pottentially. Potentially, I think youjust still get into these disputes like you'll get into, maybe since it's so and again, this is so unprecedented.It's hard to like give specific thoughts on what it will exactly happenwhen these players play these games, but I think you would get into moredisputes on time in time e speeds just because there's so much more on theline with a there's so much more investment,just personal investment, a best two out of three: that's fair, that's fair!It's also, you know two or three and fifty minutes is significantly more difficult tocomplete than one and twenty five to thirty, although, although in in thedefense of best two out of three is that is alnline, so you're not wastingtime shuffling you're not wasting time O, no, even so much as like reachingover the table to grab your opponent's discard or something like that, I meanthere is like physical time save so in a sense Afu. You know in a sense it itcould work, but I'm just excited to see whathappens. I'm willing to go in it for the long hall and try to come out of italive. So you know we talk a lot it about thebet. I want to specifically talk about like a higher level of Meta, likeactual real life like metaganing this tournament. Do you think there ispotentially and I've inspired to ask this by actually a posted chat aboutwhether or not they should bed control for thirteen hours? Do you think thatyou know with the duration that we expect this tournament to last thatmaybe the type of deck that you choose could be informed by that I don't want to say like grind, butthat extended duration of time that you'llbe playing bokmon. I mean it's fine because I think a lotof times, especially in a tournament so big that you're, seeing a lot of maybethe the mid and top level players just not playing in. I think that you willhave like a fairly easy or straightforward. You know maybe firstfive to ten rounds where you're just facing. I don't want to call justpeople random, but just there's going to be a lot of people that normallywouldn't attend a tournament that are going to be playing on this onlineinvitational. So I think you'll have a pretty easy path for the first. Youknow five hours if you play a control matchop, but then beyond that it mightget a lot more difficult. So I think control would be a fine thing to bring,and actually I would recommend it if you are proficient with control. Ithink it's a fine play for this tournament.

Okay, okay! So now we're getting to therealm of actual recommendations. What do you think the medis going to looklike for this tournament? Do you think it's going to be another ATPASHIANdominated format? Do you think other decks are going to finally rise up andpose a challenge? Well, yeah aty deal ATP for sure. Is the Dedeck two beatsand I expect a lot of players to be playing some type of variance of it orsome type of counter to it. I think it would be extremely unwise to play adeck: That's either, not fifty fifty or favorite against ADP or that isn't ATP itself. In fact, that'sthe deck that I'm going to play. I've been pretty open about it. I wasthinking like you know. Maybe I play a control deck. Maybe I play ATP, but I'mpretty sold on ATP just being the Best Dick that is in this current format andpotentially one of the best tecxs that I've ever played. And so with that inmind, I just like the consistency and the power of the deck. So I expect thatto be one of the most played decks for very obvious reasons, and then,following that you know counterthings stall things, but you'll see peopleplaying cards and text specifically four ATP,the biggest that comes to mind, is any type of energy disruption. So thingslike yell grunt things like crushing hammer you already kind of seeingcrushing hammers just go into any deck that can fit them like for the Mirroryou put crushing Amers in in Pikaram, you put crushing hammers in you're,fitting extra yell grunts into stall decks. It's just kind of all four ATPand in response to ATP- and so I you know, I would expect that to be thesame in the invitational. So you expect it to be the same. Do youthink it's the correct choice to play such heavy counsil cars with the solepurpose of improving a ATP matchup? I mean yes, I would imagine that of thelet's just round it out here and call it twenty rounds. I mean it might be,nineteen an might be less more. I don't know but twenty rounds. I would expectat least ten of those to be against ADP, so wow yeah, that's an impressive Metashare. Is there anything that you're doing with your ATP deck? That makes itstand out amongst the rest, ou in the mirror or outside of it? I mean there'snot too much to say that hasn't already been done, but in response to thingslike the hammers and the yell grunts, I would play one or more one or two energyswitch. I think that's a card. That's pretty strong right now in the currentMEDA, given all of this energy disruption. So having the one or twoenergy switch gives you that out in case of a first turn, crushing hammerthat you can still get the next turn gx attack and beyond that you knowthere are even some games where you can get the turn o one gx attack, which isjust huge, yeah, dumb, no kidding than especially in like the tonker going.Second, exactly right right, where you can pull that kind of out of your outof your Butt Watch Youre out there. But I know right. This is a kids show orsure so yeah I would agree. I think ATPreally still remains to be the force to be reckon with it's kind of a deck thatI don't really like to play, not because I don't think it's good,because everybody goes in hating it and it gets very frustrating to run intothe counters. So I would like to aventure a little bit outside of ATP aswell, because I'm sure there are listeners who feel the same. What aresome other decks that you would consider to be in the top tier that areworth playing in spite of ATPC dominance? Sure I really like bleSepalon the baby bill sephelon. I think that's a fine choice. I think it's a little bit too relianton again were the whole metafor me iswarped around ATP, so the counter for Babybl sephlon into ADP is b springer,and I think if you get that card on, you know the turn that you need it.Then you have a pretty decent. You know, even if not favorable matchup, but ifyou don't end up getting it or you're board just kind of clunks up or you o. You can't really get an attackergoing, something like that. Then it becomes a lot more difficult to win. SoI like ble Ethalon, if you are feeling confident with your ADP matchup, if youfeel like confident with you know, having onepotentially to B Springer inthe deck to take down that initial ATP when Theygx, then I think you're ina good spot. I also really like stall. As we mentioned things like just sinchino base tall or Pigiotobased all, I think those are good choices for this tournament yeah and that's it's a it's funny how pigeas kind of come backfrom the ashes as being a potential stall. Archetypt tit felt like the themill had really taken over and all of a...

...sudden, you see people starting owarmback up to more of a pigy, methodical or Rangaru based controllddeck with decks like that. Is there anythingin particular that you would recommend playing in them to improve theirmatches against the field? I'm not too sure I I haven't put mytime into Pitgy Basedall, but I can say for Sinchino. They you know probablywould want to play their for crushing hammer which is very standard and thenat least two to four counts of Skul, grunt or yell. Grat. Excuse me yeah,Yeah Yeah. It's definitely insane the kinds of measures you have to take tomake yourself have a consistent way to keep that atpgx attack from half an AGexactly exactly. I've also seen a lot on the ladder of Malamar and I've beenplaying Malamar a little bit myself and I from what I gathered just justinformation from the last tournament, the last Limita less tournament thatthere was a you know very sizeable contingent o of Malamar, and I think,when we get kind of in our little echo chamber, we kind of dismiss Malamar, atleast I'm not a very big proponent of that deck, and I think that's not the case for manyother players so expect to see you know: Malamar ADP,blasephlon stall. I think those are probably my biggest for that. Youshould be prepared for heading into the tournament yeah, it's funny. It feelslike all the time we talk about Malamar as a deck that will probably be popularand see a lot of play, but it feels like very rarely do we recommend it asa deck that you should play. That's kind O. I feel going into thistournament yeah. I feel like people overestimate the laudios into the ATPmatch. UPI, it doesn't it's, so it doesn't alwayswork out the way you wanted to and then there are a lot o right. There are alot of like there are a lot of issues just just with the laudios. You have tohave four bench pokem on and if ATP you know goes first, then you only have theone turn to get five pokemon out with an energy attached. You know it's justyou need a lot, especially if you don't start with the laudio s, then you needa switch card to get into it. You know there's just a lot ofqualifiers for the laudios and then, if the ATP player plays something like Absol,you know, then it just gets even more difficult to pivot. Out of you know,whatever you started with presuming it's not the laudios and then even ifyou do get the laudious attack off, there's like a very real chance thatyou still don't win the game. So it's you know just because the ATP playercan can gust they could play feone. licender labs is very helpful. Have alot of big charm. You know things like big charm can augment the the math that the Malamarplayers trying to play with so there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Ofcourse, on the flip side you know, malamark can do good things and candefinitely win the matchup and they can definitely get the ladius off beforeyou get an ATP gx attack and you know pretty comfortably win games, but Idon't even know that. That's that's not a risk that I would bewilling to take. I would ave because it's petgree for the most part and partof the reason I've explained this to a couple of my friends. It's like you know. If you only get off Laudofos,let's say fifty percent of the time. Yo get a lot of us off. Maybe it's more!Maybe it's less. Let's say fifty percent of games. Youget the AUDIOC guaranteed in some amount of those. Fifty percentof games that you get the audios off your board is going to be so jinktrying to get that laudios that you're going to lose anyway. Maybe you onlygot an Inka and down or two down and the ATP gusted it, and now you have oneaand. You can't really do anything ye tanother percentage of those games. TheATP will just overrun you anyway, which definitely happens you're sacrificingtwo frises off rip. Basically with that audios and like another percentage of thosegames, you actually win and so yeah like you're, sacrificing it's not likeyou clear vision and you're guarantee to win. If that was true, they'd bemuch more reasonable to say, like okay, you know like let's, let's just shakeim Bak: let's do this Ruta, because you don't win every time you clear vision.It's like it to me. It seems fruitless. I guess like you're. Putting in allthis effort to beat this match up and granted. Mal Mar does have some goodmatchups elsewhere yeah, it's like such a it's such an inherently inconsistentdeck that it's like. I don't know why, like Mawmark, caneven lose on occasion to like Babil, Stepplon and sure when it gets to. Thatpoint is like why a I flay Howar, you...

...know yeah, I mean I guess just that youwould say: Malamar doesn't have any overwhelmingly positive matchups likethat, I'm just thinking of off the top of my head May. Certainly you can buildyour deck in a way. Just I'm talking generic Mamar. Certainly you can buildyour deck in a way to beat certain things. You know better than others,but you know generic Balamar just has adecent shot against the field, so that would probably be why anyone would takea Malamar deck, but again just not the deck. For me, one thing that you weretalking about that I really kind of resonated with. I was doing a coachingthis afternoon and I was playing Malmar and I was in this exact situationagainst ATP, where I wanted to get the laudios off, but to do that, I had tobench a mew and a and like a meastic or what's the what's, the evels, not evEsper Esper and I had habenchd those two and those are just completely deadin the matchup. And so, while I did get the clear vision off, I still lost thegame because I had you know two non factoring pokemon on my bench. Thatkind of clogged it up and prevented me from you know: building up moreMalamars, he was able to gust up some Malamars and take those out and all ofa sudden, I had this extremely weak board state yeah yeah exactly- and Ifeel like. I see that happen all the time with Mam Mar players that aregoing fot, the clear vision. One thing I will say: If you're going to play Malimar, Ithink, having a probably at least one, maybe a two count of the mimic. U isgoing to be very helpful. I really like it to if you're going to be against ifyou're, expecting o fla again slot of atps like just take those duvs and like knock out those Aushians or at leastgive yourself the best chance to because you're not going to wait ifyou're leaning into Guirtina. That gives them so much time to gust andfigure out an alternative game plan right, and you really don't want togive a deck like ATP time to figure out an alternative game plan, becausetheyve right, probably right- and I yeah that's- definitely something thatI like that you hit on here, because there are ways that you can build your deck tobeat certain matchups and Ar beat certain matchups a little bit better,and so one of those ways, inte ATP, that you can improve that match. Op is,of course, to play more things that can one shot a azation exactly so just thethought, just the thought for sure. I would not personally recommend Malmar,but that's something I would consider if I were to put M ar. I sure I'm alsoa big fan of the Bavo Seffon deck. I think it's it's pretty strong. It playsgramarant, which inherently makes it a better deck. I think- and you know, welder is its rocks. ManWho doesn't love playing water, of course, Thatt's fun for try playingwelder. You also open up those games where you don't hit a welder for, likefive turns and do nothing so yeah, but I think of the of the top decksthat are also just very fun to play. I would put blessalon right up there justbecause one shotting in that way, like getting resources to hand, is Super Fun.I'd say like ATP plays off the board really well, but bulistepalon plays outof the hand and, generally speaking, just playing cards from your hand, isgoing to be a little bit more fun. You know, blowing something of for threehundred damage is just more fun to me. So it's just it's the definite it's thedefinite run hod deck for the weekend, but I would expect a lot of players todo really well with the bllusephlon for sure for sure. Do you like Tepan's list?Have you made any modifications to it since that came out? What are yourthoughts on how to Bill BE SIP on? No, I think I think that's a really reallygood start again. We're just talking about minor counts, but I think stafinis done just a great job and I don't think that there's you know, I think alot of other players have kind of followed his lead yeah for Shoud agree.I think Stefan has like fifty nine cards, maybe fifty eight that I wouldjust inherently agree with and a couple that I think, are slightly moredebatable. But what would you? What would you change? rily just like so vary minor things likeattacker counts and like adding one alternative, attack or stuff like that. I think the originalist didn't have avictiniporism and I like having that as an option. Maybe it wasn't Fictini butsome sort of like alternative attacker of that nature, an maybe it was' sureme,I'm like struggling to remember ofti. I think I think his list didn't have aVictini yeah. I liked having it for the mere, mostly yeah, because being ableto recover all those energy in the mirror is insanely good sure, but other than that, I think it's likea pretty good framework to work with right away, so I would definitelyrecommend that list cool. So I think that's that's probablylike the top ish kind of decks. I would I would kind of like to look at theflipside, though so last week we talked about the worst pokenon. What are someof the worst stecks that you coutake to...

...this event? What adecxt that you wouldabsolutely not reckon on to a listener, frosmof frosspoth for sure for sure I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend Pekrom. Oh okay, that's a little more of a hottake so that Wabros, Om, Ahoto, tak on hate realm that you're in right. Now it just well, I don't know I get intothis kind of like it feels to me. You know this is all just big a big artform, but it feels like I just doesn't have the doesn't have the staying power. You know you're, seeing at least I'vebeen seeing a lot of mew come back into decks, and so it's just obviously mew is one thingthat was missing from a lot of these decks thats now coming back. That isjust such a huge hindrance to the PEKARONDIC. If you don't expect people to blame,you I mean, then that would be one more reason to play Pekeron, but I justhaven't found that Pekram even getting the turn to Foblitz, like isn't beatingas much of the things as I wanted to be. So why do you think it's struggles inthat regard? Is it just damage? Output is a consistency. Is it Lis ID inefficient attackers? What'sgoing on with Terond, that's like making it fall short of the mark yeah,I would say the inefficient attackers. I've been finding that just and thenlake game hand desruption, so indevision, attackors and Lakeame hand.Desruption I've been finding are just two of the biggest struggles for the deck interesting.It's interesting called handdestrupting I feel like Pekarom, is one of thedecks that takes best advantage of hand, destruction so, and also, I feel, likeman, desruption in the Meta has kind of fallen, mostly out of favor. So why doyou call it hand? destruption is being one of the major issues. Well, I justthink of like a Marny and just getting stuck with the wrong hand in the midand Lake Games with Pikaram can be really devastating, because you're,relying early on your dedenes for set up as opposed to a decklexation whichwould rely you know, could rely later in the game on their dedanas to findtheir last pieces. I often find with Pekarond that I'm using my dadenes totry to get the full blits off, but then I'm filling my bench and then in theLahe game. I just don't have that extra dig power that I would want that's fair,that's that is definitely true. FIGURUM LOVES TO USE TO DENNA for turn, one inturn to it feels like yeah. I can't help but agree with you there.I was going to say that I think the electric power is probably where itstarts to struggle in the lake game like consistantly cayoing, those Danks austions gets to be tough.Well, especially now that you see, you know two counts of the the frying pan. You know, and a lotof ationlists and just getting over that damage cap that two and fiftydamage cap is just really tough for pekeram in a lot of cases. On the flipside, though, you know, people like Ange are testing out the wait and seehammer and similar such cards like crushing cameras and the like Sur. Thatobviously are very annoying for ATP to deal with, and if they prevent thealtered creation, then it gets a little awkward for ATP, because the mathstarts to get really weird. Do you have any thoughts on a mat and do they provefegarom at all, just because of the ATP matchup getting better, or do you thinkthe deck still kind of lives in this unviable state? I don't think it's unviable, it's justlike not a deck. I would like Ofr the four decks that we said were the bestcalls for the tournament like Pekram is not there for me. I think if you'R wantto play it, you know by all means: do it, but it's just not the deck thatI've been finding has been getting the best results, and even you look at adeck like you know, Little Bllosepalon. I think you can take a really toughmatchup into that again kind of depending on whether or not you can geta full blit off before they can just start. One shouting your things, but Ijust don't think that the field is very favorable and then you think aboutMalmar. That's also like a really tough matchup for you. So even if you're,really confident in your ATP matchup, I think you strugle against those othertwo decks yeah. I think that's fair. I think that's fair! It's tough! It's tough! To balance itout. I think so. Is there anything else that you have aslike a high level thought about the Meta and how you'd approach it can't say that there is. I do feel likethis. Meta has been. You know pretty pretty well thought out pretty pretty just just smartly done in terms of thelist that people are creating and where we've kind of molded this format. Nowas soon as I say that I leave the door open for something to come out ofnowhere, but ithinsation is just such a dominantforce that it kind of blocks out a lot of other ideas from from being viableand even yeah. We were just talking...

...about this earlier in the cast abouthow you have to construct your deck in a way to have. You know a shred of ahope against ATP. It's just amazing how the STECK has has shifted, liss yeah. That's for sure. I think whenYelgrad starts to includd inlist, you know that etyfees maybe yeal for sure, because that's definitely not a carthat cracks like initial thoughts of the top ten car, some sortand shield.THAT'S FOR SURE! No! Not at all you know. One thing I found interestingis the complete falling out of favor of the moutube Ale Ardeck as well yeahthat felt like it was a huge sword, shield archetype that was hyped up andfelt like people thought it had a decent match, ot against ADP, and thenit kind of universally became out of favor. Do you think there's any reasonthat deck isn't a viable play? I couldn't really tell you you know, potentially the uptick in Malamar, from my perspective,potentially figuring out that it wasn't really that good into ATP. You know is another thing, but Icouldn't really tell you interesting yeah. I don't really know either. I was nevera huge fan of that deck, but I thought it was odd how quickly it seemed todisappear after it was introduced when people loved it Suro much ahead of theformhat being released. Sure, absolutely absolutely, I think, just itstruggles with some of these consistency issues and then you just bench so many gxis that the that, even if you're able to kind oflike tank a few hits I mean they can always just go around you and snip offa bunch of things on the bench. You look at things like again, the babyofllcephylon that has a decent. You know shot at just one shouting you onturnd to and it can just get really hairy with muty decks. Now I do likethe Henry Brann version of the MUTU list. Again I wouldn't ever play it.Nor would I like say yes, this is a top ter choice and like one that I wouldsay to everybody to play, I'm not saying that, but if you're comfortablewith it, I don't think it's a bad plan. Sure yeah that takts tough to play aswell. It's just a we now, that's yeah. I think I'd ratherplay stall for twenty rounds than to play. t e the Mutu deck for twentypounds that Mightbe Truean that there's a lot going on in that deck and it'scar, Jack, Mitall, yeah cool. So outside of that, is thereanything that you just like to say about approaching this tournament at aat a higher level than Han playing cards and your recommendations formaybe players who don't go all to a lot or maybe any tournaments to this isgoing to be one of their few experiences yeah. Well, if you do, if you do want to make the most of thistournament, then I would just say: Take it seriously. You know this tournamentis going to feature a lot of good players, a lot of players that do wantto win. Just as much as I mean there will always be people that don't careas much, but you know if you want to do well,just take it seriously and I know I'll be playing my games. I will probablystream them, but during the match, I think I'll be you know, devoting asmuch attention to the match as I possibly can, and if you want to do well, I would justrecommend that you do that as well, because we're just at home, you knowpeople are probably sitting at home on their on their laptops and their pjs.You Know Clicking Away Sea card play card mentality, not really caring. Youknow it's a free entry, but I mean you know thee's, there's money on the lineand, if you're going to devote that kind of time you know. Of course you dowith your time what you wish, but I like to have fun and also win. So yourlike me just take it seriously. I think Wenning's fun. You know yeahyeah, exactly Nice. I think that's a pretty goodoverview of the tournament. So, to recap everything that we said. We thinkthat Malmar is the best deck in the format. Follow Y adps, AhianMorrealistically, though it's AP astions at the front and yeah you knowtrailing behind it. I think this was teffe on and Malamars also a popularchoice of the crowd for sure. Absolutely that sound right to you.That sounds about right, nice. So, unfortunately, I think this Meta hasbeen like pretty well analyzed. So it's like hard to it's hard to have too crazy of a hottake right because it feels like a lot of angles have been hit, and I don't know if that's because of theamount of time that we spent just playing online or...

...if they met it actually whuld wouldhave shifted if there was more real life tournaments, but right ATBdefinitely stands at the top for me by a long shot yeah. I think we're just alot like set in our ways to it does feel like since there's not you knowthere is this limitless tournament, but, and it is bigger than a lot ofregionals, but you know the the importance of it in the grand scheme ofthings. You know it is not quite there. You know there's no championship pointson the line, there's no prizes that could compare to likewinning originals on the line. Really all you're getting is like. If you wintwo hundred bucks in some clouds, so you know which you know cloud is prettynice got. Ta Say Clad is pretty Nice, but it, I think, there's less innovation. Tat that all occur just because people are kind of. I have my deck. I knowthat this works well enough and I'm just going na I'm going to roll with atI'm going to take it seriously, but I'm not going to like invest an insaneamount of time to like try to try to go hard and try to test. So you know I expect kind of more of thathere in this tournament sure sure- and I think you know you can stop me if you thinkI'm wrong, but I think just the nature of an online tournament kind ofinherently will make it feel more casual and make people less interestedin. I don't want to say like trying their vest but like putting forth themaximum effort possible, because there's no longer that that physicalinvestment of like going to a location- and I mean I could just be in my underpants on my couch- you know.Oh this card is glowing, drag it on to the screet and exactly and and justlike, having you know and then maybe you're sending a work email on theother screen or something. You know what I mean it's just like. There'sgoing to be all this stuff that comes at you from multiple different angleswhen you're at home. That just doesn't happen to you at a tournament, and so surely surely that 'll be a factoragain. If you want to do the best thing, you can try as hard as you can to blockthose kind of annoyances out and just focus justfocus for sure I was A. I was kind of thinking that I hope this opens thedoor right for more similar kinds of things to happen in the future, becauseEy feel like we have an opportunity now to cultivate and online kind of gamingculture and Pokemon, and now t trying to really take advantage of that rightand and make that into reality. You Know Pokemon company obviously doesn'treally have a ton of investment into it feels like, but certainly there aretons of other games that rely entirely on grassrus communities. T at I fee,like Pokemon, has a chance to do something really cool here and lemit.Lice is kind of leaving the trail on that yeah. It's very exciting yeah. I I'm excited to see how it goes.I hope you do well appreciate it appreciate it rally. I know you'll, bethere the whole way. Cheering me I'll definitely be cheering you man, Idefinitely Sar you I'll, definitely be hoping that youhave the Stanma ot of survive. Yeaha little bit of a boomer must say wellyeah, you know as soon as it gets about to that like two or three o'clock hour.I start you know looking for my blankie like taking a nap, you know starting tothink about taking a nap, so we can make it on that whole Saturday ot imagine falling asleep like meswetaround or so that was dude yeah and that's another reason to play a quickdeck. Is that you can you yeah? You can just fill yeah if your take a little power now yeah,that's fair Takea, take a walk, maybe you know actually used your physicalbody for something for sure. Well, I have a standing desk now, so I'llprobably play a lot of my matches. Standing. Oh, that's cool! That's cool,yeah yeah, so I'm not just sitting for like twelve hours straight can't dothat at a real puck on tournament. That's true take advantage of it. WhileI can imagine someone just standing andplaying cards, I did that once really yeah like istourament in northeast Ohio. I think it's probably at recess and they likedidn't, have enough chairs ar they had like plenty of room, but there werejust so many people that came that they ended up having to put us on these.Like standing tables that are for, like man Don know, I think like yeah,yeah figures yeah, I know what you're talking about. I know the place you'retalking about to yeah yeah Y, so it was the it was pretty funny. I rememberi remember if you did, if youdid well, you got to sit and then, if you did poorly like, if your record wasbad, then you had the stance lit an extra incentive right, yeah, exactlyexact, that's Honny, that's funny! Yeah! Definitely don't make the players dotrying their hard as te doing their best. Tand right feels tin, correct tome right cool. Well, I don't know. Do you haveany other takes that you'd like to...

...present about the limilist tournamentand what it's going to entail? Did I've just I've just loved it? Limon list isdone, it's very ambitious, very, very ambitious, but if they pull it off,then that is just a huge blessing for the community. So I'm very thankfulthat they have tried at the very least they've, certainly rallied a lot ofpeople around this one cause, and I just wish nothing but the best for thesupcoming tournament in the whole series. Absolutely man absolutely so. Iexpect to see more coverage from us as these tournaments go on and develop. In the meantime, though, we'd love tohear some input from chat, so Wev kind of got over our limitlest TCG qualifiercontent for the day. So if anyone in chat has a question they like topresent well, probably take you know four or five of those and then we'llmove on to JW's after dark stream. I see an question right now that I thinkwould be interesting at twee to ask when you're playing at APDECK. What ise deck you hate to see or what are cards you dread. Seeing your opponentplay yeah. I think the biggest thing is justthe hand or the energy disruption. You know an ideal turn one for ATP is justliterally just getting an attachment down onto an ATP and then beyond thatyou know pretty much. Everything else is gravy, but that's the really theonly thing that you need as an ADP player and so and so any type ofdisruption on that is, is a problem. I wouldn't say that there's necessarily adeck that I would hate to see. I mean there are certainly some conditions ofdex that I would hate to see so again. We're talking about things like babywill stuffle on, with the big hand, things like the you know, Malamar having a bunch ofPokmon at the end of their turn in play. Just things like that, but that'sthat's more kind of in game. I feel very confident heading into heading into the game playing ATPagainst pretty much any dack sure I think that's fair too. That's how Ifelt as well as like, I feel like I have a good shot if that water energysurvives the end of the turn exactly yeah. You know, then my oponentrifts out the waiht and see hammer and just like they always have th. I don't n feellike this anymore. Just like years. I right I'm out ro right. Well, that's another thing too! That isreally advantageous for for the players in this tournament. Isthat we'll all get to see our opponents deckliss so you'll know when that weiht and seamer hammer iscoming down and that can really inform a lot of decisions that you make likeas an ATP ar if I know that my opponent plays crushing hammer or wait and see,then I'll be more prone to try to dig for the Metal Energy Attachment asopposed to the water energy attachment right, and so just you know littlethings like that. But you know you can optimiz your plays that in ways that you normally can't,which I think is very nice. Do you think there are any cards or decks thatare perhaps harms by the fact that you get that preemptive knowledge of youropponents decklist one of the of the decks that we've beentalking about? I think one that has more disadvantage than the others wouldbe a deck like Malmar. You know if they play one count of if they play one count of Mimic versustwo. If they play one ma, lanas fishing rod versus you knowzero or two. How many spelltags they play all these kinds of littledecisions are pretty important for that deck. I think yeah. I agree. So cashran twenty seven and chat. Ask. Can you guys see a surprise deck doing? Well,an attorney I'll leave this one up to you, Riley asurprise deck. I don't know, I guess it depends what you consider a surprise like. I don't see something completelyunheard of doing well, but I could definitely see an underrated archetypedoing well. I remember the other day jet. I mean you're talking a lot aboutthis mill deck that you really liked, and I thought that was really funny. Itdoesn't seem like youas interested in it anymore. I mean it's good, I would say again Iwould say it was. It was the with the Fort Crushing Hammer and the four yellgrunts and I was like hey this: has you know a pretty pretty solid shot againstadpand? By pretty solid, I mean, like maybe fifty five, forty five againstcat piece and like not auto, win by any means, but you know I was pretty hyp about it,hatwas pretty good sure so yeah. I don't know, I don't know, Ithink the metalas gotten pretty far developed,...

...so I don't know if there' be anythinglike truly shocking, like maybe there'd, be something a little bit of a surpriselike yeah like s. The first thing I was thinking oflike yeah obstagoon, maybe like dolstall, could be something that doeswell. I think you know the Metaif people are especially F. People aretaking out the feon from list like dastal guns aresome of the top. You know Middle Tier. That could benefit from something likethat right. Exactly so. Cash Pan specifically calls outrellaboom as a deck that he's been seeing de well online used to be reallyinto relaboom JW. What kind of happened there? Well, I thought it was Super Fun.I think it's a really really fun deck shuffling an all yourponents energy issuper cool, and if you can do that against ap, you have a decent shot,aother, a ways that ATP can play around it. So I haven't played the matchupagainst, like in a testing situation and testingscenario, where we're kind of you know going over the moves and preparing forthat. So normally, when I'm playing rillaboom online inm playing against anATP player that doesn't leave, you know energies in the discard, and so when Ishuffle all their energy back in they can't metal patch back. You know it'sjust things like that that, if you're playing in a in a testing scenarioagainst somebody that you know I is good and profisciont at the game andknows what's going to happen to them, then they would set up their board in away to combat what you're trying to do. But rellyboom, you know fine deck. Imean it's cool, it's fun. Do I think it'll do well? No, but you know it's a fine deg. It'sdefinitely not a deck that I yeah that I hate I mean it's alwaysgoing to be a fun deck, though, for me, do you think rilloboom will get theboost in needs for something like the RELBUMV? Couldn't tell you honestly couldn'ttell you fair enough fair enough. Yeah Wi'mexcited to dig: I'm excited to dig more into more into the sets after after thisweekend, maybe after the next two weekends. Obviously there are some ofthe limitless qualifiers that will be inthe new format and that is very, very exciting to think about, just because that'll be the only tournaments thatwill feature the new cards. Presumably so you know IAM excited to talk on thecast about what is the future of the game with rebel clash and certainly don't immediately think ofRilaboom as being the deck that gets boosted by the V. But at the same time, who knows you know wejust don't know until we can test for sure. So I know that we're trying to say reblclash for like another time is there anything very preliminarily that youthink stands out for mevell clash yeah for me, I I kind of like intellion vmaxthat one seems pretty good, like that's of the things that are maybe not ashyped I kind of like in telling NV yeah. I totally e sad yeah. I obviously you know: bosses orders,SCOOP UPNAD. I'm really excited to see we're talking a little bit before thecast about my initial time that getting into the game where SP's werthing andthese zigzagon plus scoopupnet is exactly Crobadg, pus pokaturn, and soI'm excited to see that Combo come back in conjunction with you know, Lysander, which was a card. Ithink printed around twenty thirteen. You can correct me ifI'm wrong on that one, but again one of my like earlier the one of the earliercards in the game just that bosses orders parallel andto Lisanders, so I'mjust excited to see these concepts be recycled to come back into the game.Let's see, obviously Dragopul to me seems like the the card of the setseems like a very good card seems like ATP retains its power and I don'tnecessarily love taxatricity. So I think what you're saying is, ifyou still have held out on buying your APCAS autions, you should maybe consider rethinkingthat choice yeah. I would imagine that ATP probably won't get any cheaper thanit is now and then Atians are coming out with he tin. So you just like mightas well buy those I think you're right man, I thinkyou're right, yeah ATP, doesn't seem like it's goinganywhere anytime soon, in my absolutely, not very, very good card who would havethought broken guard, it was like ATP, it didn't feel like. It was very goodwhen it came out and then it got the PR literally perfect partner. Is it's allabout context? You know, because I think you can have a lot of people saylike well. You know jd Riley, you said ADP was like average to bed and like itwas when it had the best partner as...

Keldio. You know, which couldn't evento shot a lot of gxes in a lot of cases. So now it has just this obscene absurdmonster insation that it powers up with in the context of it now is waydifferent than it was when it was first released yeah. I totally agree man,it's a it's crazy. How just the partner for acard can completely warp the perception of it. Yeah Zashi has certainly donethat. SASHION has really changed the game for better for worse. I guessremains to be seen, but Sahion is definitely going to be on theforefront of decks for the remainder of its time in our rotation. I think yeahfor sure it's just one of those cards just one of those cards cool, so Ithink that will bring us about to a close for today. Thank you all so muchfor listening. We appreciate Youall Wehelpe. Everybody is staying, stafeand healthy at home during quarantine and feel free to reach out to us ontwitter. If you have any questions or ar looking for us to cover anything onfuture episodes of the PODCAST, that's at Tet pokemon and if you're listeningon any of your podcasting platforms, particularly on Apple Podcast, be sureto rite and review us. So that way we can continue to rise in the recks andbe more viewable and accessible for people looking to get into the book onTrading Card Game, and with that I'm Riley, Hubert, my good friend, JW,acree well and we'll catch you next time base. So Yeah.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (107)