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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 11 · 1 year ago

2-10. Limitless Potential

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Get ready for the Limitless Qualifier 1! The boys break down the expected meta for an unprecedented online event!

What is up everybody? Welcome backto tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. My nameis Riley Hulbert and I'm joined by my good friend jaw curry wall GW.How are you doing today, Riley, doing great. How are you?I am doing spectacular. My Guy just thriving in quarantine. That's right.I mean, we got it. We're there right where. We're kind ofinundated. Now what was not normal before is the new normal. I guessso, man, I guess so. Have you done anything cool to passthe time and the past week er? So, let's see. My wifeand I have been playing a lot of board games. We checked a fewout from the library, which means that we will probably have them for potentiallythe rest of the year, which, you know, it's, you know, has its pluses, of Miss I guess. But yeah, we havethis one game called site and Oh yeah, that's like it is like the mostboard, Hardcore Board Game Right, that you've act, isn't it?I mean it's it really, I mean it is, but it also isn't. I mean it's it's one of those things where it's like, if youknow how to play these kinds of artisanal board games. Then you'll understand what'sgoing on. But I could only imagine for a new player, you know, because it's like and then I move this where and then I do whatto this and it unlocks this ability and it just gets kind of convoluted,like, you know, for a new player. A lot of texts andthings like that. The rule book actually was funny. So we set itup on day one. It took the whole table, the whole dining roomtable, and you know how big that is, but it took the wholedining room table. And then day two we read the rule book and thenday three we played the game. That was like the song my good becauseAnne was and was doing a bunch of stuff at work and she's like,okay, I can only handle so much, and so we spent like an hourputting it together, our reading the rules that we played on the thirdday. So's it was pretty intense. Oh Man, so do you endup winning? I did, but I think I had a broken I hada broken team. Okay, okay, yeah, I feel that for sure, and I took advantage of and you know, it was her first timeplay, it was my first time playing, but I was like, let's justbe really aggressive and try to end the game really quickly, and Ithink with my faction, that ended up being the correct choice. Interesting.So what's your what's your favorite board game that you've played recently? Then?Well, we've been playing a ton of and if everybody's been listening to mystreams, I've been raving about this game. But we've been playing terraforming Mars right. Have you played this game, Riley? No, but you havelightly told me about it. We will have to play it. Is probablymy favorite game of all time. Wow, like maybe second to Pokemon, buteven then it's like hard if I had to get rid of my gosh. Yeah, I know, it consumes our life. We're actually in themiddle of a game right now where we were trying to play one really quicklyand then, you know, we're doing the cast now, so it's justconsuming my life. The the I think what really does it is like whenwhen the art style of the game, the concept of the game and themechanics of the game all work together and tandem to produce just this beautiful,thought provoking piece of art, and it's a lot of kind of building yourresources but then spending to get things, and then it's kind of territorial withthe board and there's just a lot of different ways that you can play it, a lot of different ways that you can approach the game, and that'swhat makes it fun and engaging and makes us want to play it over andover. That's awesome. Yeah, I'll be excited to check that out oneday and it's definitely one of those games where, like, playing it inperson is the one of the biggest joys of it. Like you can doit online. It's probably fine online, but like just feeling the pieces,playing everything down. It's just, honestly, I'm like a I don't know ifI want to see purest, but I like to play board games andin person, you know. Yeah, it's an experience designed to be aboard game. I wanted to be in board game for you know right.If it's designed to be a computer game, that's fine. I'll played on thecomputer of my friends, but right, you know, it has to bebuilt to that audience, I feel like. And how about you,what have you been up to? I don't think I've had anything as excitingas a Revolutionary World Bending Board game experience, but you know, I've I've beenhaving fun. I've been playing a lot of animal crossing and that's beenpretty cool. I also playing a lot of team fight tactics, which isthe most frustrating game of all time. I'm pretty sure I could ran foreverabout the way that they balance and and...

...built team by tactics, but Ihave fun still. My friends and I hover around diamond. Brady, yougotten masters yesterday and then fell out today, so he's back in diamond with therest of us. What's the what's the like ranking system for tft?I played a little bit when it first came out but you know, neverput that much time into it to learn all that stuff. It's basically Elobut hidden and it's hidden the it's masked in the form of like these leaguesand League points and basically it's Elo and it's teered off into different tiers andso it goes from like iron two bronze to all the way to diamond andit follows a pretty natural progression. They're like silver, gold, platinum,diamond and there's masters and then the top two hundred maths stors our challenger andchallenge of changes every day depending on who the top two hundred actually are Gotcha, and they actually just announced like the competitive being their plenty to do withTFT, so that they're going to bring the top x amount of players fora qualifier event and so, based on your ladder ranking, you can getinvited to that and then you'll play off to go to the world championships,which is pretty cool. I don't think I'm really in contention for anything likethat, but I think it's a fun game and I'd be interested to watchand see how that Hans out. Is so you say, when Brady's andmaster, is he like in Contenti or was in masters heat, in contentionfor something like that? Maybe one day, I think. I think Brady andI and all of our other friends who play are still a little bitshort of reaching that skill level. But I guess you could if you pouredit over from Pokemon, where like the kind of people who like are veryinterested in like learning from mistakes and getting better at things, and of coursehe's applied here in tag team all the time. So it's like, youknow, I would love to apply that idea that I use and Pokemon toanother sort of competitive outlet. In the meantime, when tournaments are a littlemore sparse, a little less sparse, little more sparse, sparse is likenot. Well, often, yes, well, there are no tournaments now, right. So it's very spars it is very St Parson, why wait? So say you're sentence again. Hold, I said a little more spars weyeah, but in reference to what tournaments? The tournaments now are verysparse. Yeah, there's so they're more spars now. Whatever. Whatever II just I guess I missheard you in context. I don't know what yourwell, speaking of whish, though, there is actually a tournament, nota sanctioned one, but a tournament, coming up this weekend and I thinkyou're on deck to be participating in that JW. So, if you haven'tfamiliarize yourself with it from the past couple of weeks, we've referenced it acouple times. But there's the limitless qualifier, which is an online, incredibly largepokemon trading card game tournament, kind of the first of its kind,really and really ambitious project. Really excited to see how it pans out.But it's going to be in the sword and shield format, kind of theone that we abandoned midway through in favor of quarantine ourselves and our homes andyou know, I'm not sure exactly how to pan out. But JW,I know you're looking to participate. What are your initial thoughts on what thistournament will look like? Well, I'm really excited again. Like I've beensaying the last couple weeks, I participated in the first iteration of the tournament. That one didn't quite go as planned and they ended up having to moveit back a couple weeks. But the Saturday looking to play somewhere around eighteento twenty rounds of Pokemon, depending on how many people sign up, andthat should be really fun. I miss playing best of one in such awide number of rounds. That was the format for regionals when I first started. We would play somewhere around, you know, nine to twelve rounds,depending on the size of the tournament, and that was always just fun becauseyou went there, you played one match and then you were done. Itwasn't like now where you know you kind of have to suffer through a secondmatch if you're in a bad matchup, you're just like okay, yeah,you won, and like you get out it was a little more casual backthen. Now best two out of three is a little bit more strategic,which also has benefits. But I don't know, it's just it reminds meof when I first started playing and that's...

...kind of a cool thing. Yeah, certainly a wholesome take on it. What are your thoughts on like thenature of best of one with more rounds versus best of three? Do youthink one is like more reflective of skill or a superior tournament format, ordo you think, you know, they both have obviously they both have theirown merits, but yeah, I do think one is just a little bitbetter and the stronger in those regards. Or what do you think? Yeah, I mean I think best two out of three is pretty standard just forabout any competitive game. You know, obviously you would rather have like bestof a hundred, but at some point you have to cut it for atime. I think one of the major issues that we're looking to avoid,that we kind of saw in the two plus rounds of the original limitless invitational, was how long rounds would take. I think maybe the people at,you know, limitless, whoever rose running the tournament, maybe didn't anticipate therebeing, you know, these issues where they two players would go to timeand then they need to call in a judge and the judge would have toresolve a dispute, and you know that just takes time and adds to round. So even though we're on a twenty thirty minute timer, certainly there willbe some kind of extensions going on between the rounds, whether it's just toget things paired or resolve a conflict. I do anticipate the tournament to goon the longer side of a projected amount of time rather than the shorter set. So when you sail the longer side, do you have any sense of whatthat might look like? Well, I mean if you're thinking, youknow, there's a twenty five minute time or like thirty minutes on each round, or saying twenty rounds, I mean then you're looking in at at minimumten hours. So I would say like thirteen to fourteen hours potentially. Wow, yeah, that's definitely a lot of pokemon. So it is it is. Would you have preferred it if this was like a best of three with, you know, nine rounds into it? You know, seven round they twoor something Um potentially, potentially, I think you just still get intothese disputes like you'll get into, maybe, since it's so and again, thisis so unprecedented that it's hard to like give specific thoughts on what itwill exactly happen when these players play these games. But I think you wouldget into more disputes on time. Sure, in time disputes, just because there'sso much more on the line with a there's so much more investment,just personal investment. Right, best two out of three. That's fair.That's fair. It's also, you know, two or three and fifty minutes isa significantly more difficult to complete than one in twenty five to thirty.Although although, in in the defense of best two out of three, isthat it's all online, so you're not wasting time shuffling. You're not wastingtime, you know, even so much as like reaching over the table tograb your opponent's discard or something like that. I mean there is like physical timesaved. So in a sense absolutely, you know, in a sense itit could work, but I'm just excited to see what happens. I'mwilling to go in it for the long haul and try to come out ofit alive. So, you know, we talked a lot at about theMeta. I want to specifically talk about like a higher level of me alike actual real life like metagaming this tournament. Do you think there is potentially,and I'm inspired to ask this by actually a post a chat, whetheror not the ship the control or thirteen hours? Do you think that youknow, with the duration that we expect this tournament to last, that maybethe type of deck that you choose could be informed by that, I don'twant to say like grind, but that extended duration of time that you'll beplaying pokemon. I mean it's fine because I think a lot of times,especially in a tournament so big, that you're seeing a lot of maybe thethe mid and top level players just not playing in I think that you willhave like a fairly easy or straightforward, you know, maybe first five toten rounds where you're just facing I don't want to call just people random,but just there's going to be a lot of people that normally wouldn't attend atournament that are going to be playing on this online invitational. So I thinkyou'll have a pretty easy path for the first you know, five hours ifyou play a control matchup, but then beyond that it might get a lotmore difficult. So I think control would be a fine thing to bring andactually I would recommend it if you are proficient with control. I think it'sa fine play for this tournament. Okay,...

...okay, so now we're getting intothe realm of actual recommendations. What do you think that that is goingto look like for this tournament? Do you think it's going to be anotherATPS OSH in dominated format? Do you think other decks are going to finallyrise up and pose a challenge? Well, yeah, eighty deal ATP for sure. Is that the deck to beat, and I expect a lot of playersto be playing some type of variant of it or some type of counterto it. I think it would be extremely unwise to play a deck that'seither not fifty or favorite against ATP or that isn't ATP itself. In fact, that's the deck that I'm going to play. I've been pretty open aboutit. I was thinking, like you know, maybe I play a controldeck, maybe I play ATP, but I'm pretty sold on ATP just beingthe best deck that is in this current format and potentially one of the bestdecks that I've ever played. And so, with that in mind, I justlike the consistency and the power of the deck. So I expect thatto be one of the most played decks for very obvious reasons. And thenfollowing that, you know, counter things, stall things, but you'll see peopleplaying cards and text specifically for ATP. The biggest that comes to mind isany type of energy disruption. So things like yeah'll grant things like crushinghammer. You already kind of of seeing crushing hammers just go into any deckthat can fit them. Like, for the Mirror, you put crushing hammersin. In Peak Arom you put crushing hammers in. You're fitting extra yellgrunts into stall decks. It's just kind of all for ATP and in responseto ATP, and so I you know, I would expect that to be thesame in the invitational. So you expected to be the same? Doyou think it's the correct choice to play such heavy accounts of cars with thesole purpose of improving an ATP matchup? I mean, yes, I wouldimagine that. Of The let's just round it out here and call it twentyrounds. I mean it might be nineteen, it might be less more, Idon't know, but twenty rounds, I would expect at least ten ofthose to be against ATP. So wow, yeah, that's an impressive Meta share. Is there anything that you're doing with your ATP deck that makes itstand out amongst the rest, even in the mirror outside of it? Imean there's not too much to say that hasn't already been done. But inresponse to things like the hammers and the yell grunts, I would play oneor more one or two energy switch. I think that's a card that's prettystrong right now in the current Meta, given all of this energy disruption.So having the one or two energy switch gives you that out in case ofa first turn crushing Hammer, that you can still get the next turn gxattack and beyond that, you know, there are even some games where youcan get the turn one gx attack, which is just huge. Yeah,no kidding, and especially in like the dumber going second, exactly right rightwhere you can pull that kind of out of your out of your butt.Watch your out there. But I know right this is a kids show forsure. So yeah, I would agree. I think ATP really still remains tobe the force of your reckon with it's kind of a deck that Idon't really like to play, not because I don't think it's good, butbecause everybody goes in hating it and it gets very frustrating to run into thecounters. So I would like to adventure a little outside of ATP as well, because I'm sure there are listeners who feel the same. What are someother decks that you would consider to be in the top tier that are worthplaying in spite of ATP's dominance? Sure, I really like blow Cephalon, thebaby blow cephalon. I think that's a fine choice. I think it'sa little bit too reliant on again, we're the whole Meta for me iswarped around ATP. So the counter for baby blill Cephalon into ATP is bespringer, and I think if you get that card on you know the turnthat you need it, then you have a pretty decent, you know,even if not favorable, matchup. But if you don't end up getting itor your board just kind of clunks up or you can't really get an attackergoing something like that, then it becomes a lot more difficult to win.So I like bliss Cephalon if you are feeling confident with your ATP matchup.If you feel like confident with, you know, having one potentially to bespringer in the deck to take down that initial ATP when they Gx, thenI think you're in a good spot. I also really like stall as wementioned things like just since you know, based all or Piggioto based all.I think those are good choices for this tournament. Yeah, and that's it'sa it's funny how pigey has kind of come back from the ashes is beinga potential stall archetype. It felt like the mill had really taken over andall of a sudden you see people starting...

...to warm back up to more ofa pidgey methodical or wrangler based control deck with dex like that. Is thereanything in particular that you would recommend playing in them to improve their matches againstthe field? I'm not too sure. I haven't put my time into pidgybased all, but I can say for since you know they you know probablywould want to play there for crushing Hammer, which is very standard, and thenat least two to four counts of skull grunt, are Yell Grunt.Excuse me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely insane the kinds of measuresyou have to take to make yourself have a consistent way to keep thatATPGX attack from happening exactly exactly. I've also seen a lot on the ladderof Malamar and I've been playing Malamar a little bit myself and I from whatI gathered, just just information from the last tournament, the last limitless tournament, but there was a, you know, very sizeable contingent of Malamar and Ithink when we get kind of in our little echo chamber, we kindof dismissed Malamar. At least I'm not a very big proponent of that deckand I think that's not the case for many other players. So expect tosee, you know, Malamar ATP Blis cephalon stall. I think those areprobably my biggest for that you should be prepared for heating into the tournament.Yeah, it's funny. It feels like all the time we talked about Malamaras a deck that will probably be popular and see a lot of play,but it feels like very rarely do we recommend it as a deck that youshould play. That's kind I feel going into this tournament. Yeah, Ifeel like people overestimate the Latios into the ATP matchup. It doesn't. It'sso it doesn't always work out the way you wanted to. And then thereare a lot of right. There are a lot of like there are alot of issues just just with a Lotios. You have to have four bench pokmonand if ATP, you know, goes first, then you only havethe one turn to get five pokmon out with an energy attached. You know, it's just you need a lot especially if you don't start with the audios. Then you need a switch card to get into it. You know,there's just a lot of qualifiers for the audios. And then if the ATPplayer plays something like ABS all, you know, then it just gets evenmore difficult to pivot out of, you know, whatever you started with,presuming it's not the Lotios, and then even if you do get the Lutiosattack off, there's like a very real chance that you still don't win thegame. So it's, you know, just because the ATP player can cangust, they could play Fione lysander labs is very helpful. You have alot of big charm. You know, things like big charm can augment thethe math that the Malamar players trying to play with. So there's a lotof things that can go wrong. Of course, on the flip side,you know Malamar can do good things and can definitely win the matchup and theycan definitely get the audios off before you get an ATP gx attack and andyou know, pretty comfortably win games. But I don't even know that that'sthat's not a risk that I would be willing to take. I would itbecause it's pretty gree for the most part, and part of the reason I've explainedthis to a couple of my friends. It's like, you know, ifyou only get off Lotios, let's say fifty percent of the time youget audios off. Maybe it's more, maybe it's less. Let's say fiftypercent of games you get the audios. Guaranteed. In some amount of thosefifty percent of games that get the audios off, your board is going tobe so jank trying to get that loutio. Is that you're going to lose anyway? Maybe you only got an ink gay and down or two down andthe ATP gusted it and now you have one in game. You can't reallydo anything. Yeah, another percentage of those games the ATP will just overrunyou anyway, which definitely happens. You're sacrificing to prizes off rip, basicallywith that Loutias, and like another percentage of those games you actually win.And so, yeah, like you're sacrificing. It's not like you clear vision andyou're guarantee to win. If that was true, it'd be much morereasonable to say like okay, you know, like let's let's just grit, shakethe bag, let's do this right, because you don't win every time youclear fish, and it's like it to me it seems fruitless, Iguess, like you're putting in all this effort to beat this matchup. And, granted, moutmore does have some good matchups elsewhere. Yeah, it's likesuch a it's such an inherently inconsistent deck that it's like, I don't knowwhy, like Malmar can even lose on occasion to like Babi Stephalon, andsure, when it gets to that point, is like why I'm play now.Are you know? Yeah, I...

...mean I guess just that you wouldsay Malamar doesn't have any overwhelmingly positive matchups like that. I'm just thinking ofoff the top of my head. Maybe, certainly, you can build your deckin a way just I'm talking generic Malmar. Certainly you could build yourdeck in a way to beat certain things you know better than others, butyou know, generic Malamar just has a decent shot against the field. Sothat would probably be why anyone would take a Ma Alamar deck, but again, just not the deck for me. One thing that you were talking aboutthat I really kind of resonated with. I was doing a coaching this afternoonand I was playing Malamar and I was in this exact situation against an ATPwhere I wanted to get the ludios off, but to do that I had tobench a mew and a and like a meowstick, or what's the what'sthe evil as not have Esper Esper, and I had a bench those twoand those are just completely dead in the matchup. And so while I didget the clear vision off, I still lost the game because I had,you know, to non factoring pokemon on my bench that kind of clogged itup and prevented me from, you know, building up more malamars. He wasable to gust up some alamars and take those out and all of asudden I had this extremely weak board stage. Yeah, yeah, exactly, andI feel like I see that happen all the time with Malmar players thatare going for the clear vision. One thing I will say if you're goingto play Malamar, I think having them probably at least one, maybe atwo count of the mimic you is going to be very helpful. I reallylike the to if you're going to be against, if you're expecting to playagainst a lot of ATPS, like just take those dubs and like knock outthose auctions or at least hear yoursel off the best chance to, because you'renot going to win if you're leaning into Gearthina. That gives them so muchtime to gust and figure out an alternative game plan, right, and youreally don't want to give a deck like ATP time to figure out an alternativegame plan because they write probably, and I yeah, that's definitely something thatI like that you hit on here, because there are ways that you canbuild your deck to beat certain matchups and are beat certain matchups a little bitbetter, and so one of those ways in the ATP that you can improvethat matchup is, of course, to play more things that can one shota azation exactly. So just the thought, just the thought for sure. Iwould not personally recommend malt more, but that's something I would consider youif I were to put mout Mare, I sure. I'm also a bigban of the babyless on deck. I think it's it's pretty strong. Itplays crammerrant, which inherently makes it a better deck, I think. Andyou know welder is it is rocks man. Who Doesn't love playing welder? Ofcourse there's fun for five playing welder. You also open up those games whereyou don't hit a welder for like five turns and do nothing. Soyeah, but I think of the of the top decks that are also justvery fun to play. I would put blissfl on right up there just becauseone shotting in that way, like getting resources to hand, is Super Fun. I'd say like ATP plays off the board really well, but blow cufflonplays out of the hand and generally speaking, just playing card from your hand isgoing to be a little bit more fun. You know, blowing somethingup for three hundred damage is just more fun to me. So it's justit's the definitely it's the definite run hot deck for the weekend, but Iwould expect a lot of players to do really well with the stuff on?For sure, for sure. Do you like Stefan's list? Have you madeany modifications to it since that came out? What are your thoughts on how tobuild being stuff on? No, I think I think that's a really, really good start. Again, we're just talking about minor counts, butI think Stefan is done just a great job and and I don't think thatthere's you know, I think a lot of other players have kind of followedhis lead. Yeah, for sure would agree. I think Stefan has likefifty nine cards, maybe fifty eight, that I would just inherently agree withand a couple that I think are slightly more debatable. But what would youwhat would you change? Ile, just like so very minor things, likeattacker counts and like adding one alternative attack or stuff like that. Okay,the original list didn't have a Victeini prism and I like having that as anoption. Maybe it wasn't Victini, but some sort of like alternative attacker ofthat nature. And maybe it wasn't. Surely I'm like struggling to remember guy. I think. I think his list didn't have a big Tini. Yeah, I liked having it for the mirror mostly, yeah, because being ableto recover all those energy in the mirror is insanely good. So sure,but other than that, I think it's like a pretty good frame work towork with right away. So I would definitely recommend that list cool. SoI think that's that's probably like the top ish kind of decks. I wouldkind of like to look at the flip side, though. So last weekwe talked about the worst pokemon. What are some of the worst decks thatyou could take to this event? What...

...are decks that you would absolutely notrecommend to a listener? Frost Moth, Frost Mooth, for sure, forsure, I wouldn't. I wouldn't recommend peak rom. Oh, okay,that's a little more of a hot take. So that's what rocks of a hotI take. Aram hate realm that you're in right now. It justwell, I don't know, I get into this kind of like it feelsto me. You know, this is all just big, a big artform, but it feels like it just doesn't have the doesn't have the stayingpower. You know, you're seeing, at least I've been seeing, alot of me come back into decks, and so it's just obviously me isone thing that was missing from a lot of these decks that's now coming back. That is just such a huge hindrance to the peaker on deck. Ifyou don't expect people to play me, you, I mean, then thatwould be one more reason to play pe K Arrom. But I just haven'tfound that. Peak Rom, even getting the turn to full blitz like isn'tbeating as much of the things as I wanted to be. So why doyou think it's struggles in that regard? Is it just damage output? Isa consistency? Is it listed inefficient attackers? What's going on peak on? That'slike making it fall short of the mark. Yeah, I would saythe inefficient attackers. I've been finding that just and then lay game hand disruption. So indefficient attackers and Lake Game Hand Disruption, I've been finding, arejust two of the biggest struggles for the deck. Interesting, it's interesting calledhand disruptions. I feel like peak Ram is one of the decks that takesbest advantage of hand disruption. So and also I feel like thend disruption inthe Meta has kind of fallen mostly out of favors. So why do youcall it hand disruption? Is being one of the major issues. Well,I just think of like a Marnie and just getting stuck with the wrong hand. In the Midden Lake Games with peak a ram can be really devastating becauseyou're relying early on your Dedenne's for set up, as opposed to a decklikexation, which would rely, you know, could rely later in the game ontheir dedonna's to find their last pieces. I often find with peak am thatI'm using my dedennae's to try to get the full blitz off, butthen I'm filling my bench and then in the late game I just don't havethat extra dig power that I would want. That's fair, that's that is definitelytrue. Peeker, I'M LOVES TO USE THE DEN A for turn oneand turn to it feels like, yeah, I can't help but agree with youthere. I was going to say they think the electric power is probablywhere it starts to struggle in the lake game like, okay, prestantly kowingthose danks options gets to be tough. Well, especially now that you see, you know, two counts of the the frying Pan, you know,in a lot of optionless and just getting over that damage cap that to fiftydamage cap is just really tough for Pek Ram in a lot of cases.On the flip side, though, you know, people like Andrew are testingout the wait and see hammer and similar such cards like crushing hammers and thelike. Sure that obviously are very annoying for ATP to deal with, andif they prevent the altered creation, then it gets a little awkward for ATPbecause the math starts to get really weird. Sure, do you have any thoughtson on that? And do they have proof peaker on at all justbecause of the ATP matchup getting better, or do you think the deck stillkind of lives in this unviable state? I don't think it's unviable. It'sjust like not a deck I would like. Of the four decks that we saidwere the best calls for the tournament, like Peak Ram is, for notthere for me. I think if your want to play it, youknow, by all means do it, but it's just not the deck thatI've been finding has been getting the best results. And even you look ata deck like you know little bit of Cephalon, I think you can takea really tough matchup into that. Again, kind of depending on whether or notyou can get a full blitz off before they can just start one,shouting your things, but I just don't think that the field is very favorable. And then you think about Malmar. That's also like a really tough matchupfor you. So even if you're really confident in your ATP matchup, Ithink you struggle against those other two decks. Yeah, I think that's fair.I think that's fair. It's tough. It's tough to balance that out,I think. So is there anything else that you have as like ahigh level thought about the Meta and how you'd approach it? Can't say thatthere is. I do feel like this Meta has been, you know,pretty pretty well thought out, pretty pretty just just smartly done in terms ofthe list that people are creating and where we've kind of molded this format.Now, as soon as I say that, I'll leave the door open for somethingto come out of nowhere. But I think Zatian is just such adominant force that it kind of blocks out a lot of other ideas from frombeing viable and even yeah, we were...

...just talking about this earlier in thecast, about how you have to construct your deck in a way to have, you know, a shred of a hope against ATP. It's just amazinghow this deck has has shifted lists. Yeah, that's for sure. Ithink when Yell Ground starts to include in list, you know that atpe ismaybe I'll for sure, because that's definitely not a car that cracks like initialthoughts of the top ten cards and sort and shield. That's for sure.No, not at all it. The one thing I found interesting is thecomplete falling out of favor of the youtube all of our deck as well.Yeah, that felt like it was a huge Sword Shield archetype that was hypedup. It felt like people thought I had a decent matchup against ATP andthen it kind of universally became out of favor. Do you think there's anyreason that deck isn't a viable play? I couldn't really tell you. Youknow, potentially the uptick in Malamar from my perspective, potentially figuring out thatit wasn't really that good into a tep, you know, is another thing,but I couldn't really tell you interesting. Yeah, I don't really know either. I was never a huge fan of that deck, but I thoughtit was odd how quickly it seemed to disappear after it was introduced, whenpeople loved it. Sure, much ahead of the format being released? Sure, absolutely, absolutely, I think just it. It has struggles with someof these consistency issues and then you just bench so many gx. Has thatthe that, even if you're able to kind of like tank a few hits, I mean they can always just go around you and snipe off a bunchof things on the bench. You look at things like, again, thebaby bliw Cephalon. That has a decent you know, shot at just oneshotting you on turn to and it can just get really hairy with mew twodecks. Now, I do like the Henry Bra and version of the METWOlist. I again, I wouldn't ever play it. Nor would I likesay, yes, this is a top tier choice and like one that Iwould say to everybody to play. I'm not saying that, but if you'recomfortable with it, I don't think it's a bad play. Sure, yeah, that decks tough to play as well. It's just the way now. That'syeah, I think I'd rather play stall for twenty rounds than they playthe me too deck for twenty pounds. True, man, that there's alot going on in that deck and it's Cardia Jack Metal. Yeah, cool. So, outside of that, is there anything that you just like tosay about approaching this tournament at a higher level than and playing cards and yourecommendations for maybe players who don't go all to a lot or maybe any tournaments, to this is going to be one of their few experiences? Yeah,well, if you do, if you do want to make the most ofthis tournament, then I would just say take it seriously. You know,this tournament is going to feature a lot of good players, a lot ofplayers that do want to win just as much as I mean, there willalways be people that don't care as much, but you know, if you wantto do well, just take it seriously and I know I'll be playingmy games. I will probably stream them, but during the match I think I'llbe, you know, devoting as much attention to the match as Ipossibly can, and if you want to do well, I would just recommendthat you do that as well, because we're just at home home. Youknow, people are probably sitting at home on their on their laptops and theirPJ's, you know, clicking away seat card play, Card mentality, notreally caring, you know, it's a free entry, but I mean,you know, there's there's money on the line and if you're going to devotethat kind of time, you know, of course you do with your timewhat you wish, but I like to have fun and also win. Soif you're like me, just take it seriously. I think winning's fun,you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Nice. I think that's a prettygood overview of the tournament. So, to recap everything that we said,we think that Malamar's the best deck in the format, followed by asoption and, more realistically, though, it's at bes options at the frontand yeah, you know, trailing behind it. I think this was Cephalonand Malamars also a popular choice of the crowd, for sure. Absolutely.That sound right to you? That sounds about right. Nice. So,unfortunately, I think this Meta has been like pretty well analyze. So it'slike hard to it's hard to have too crazy of a hot take right becauseit feels like a lot of angles have been hit, and I don't knowif that's because of the amount of time that we spent just playing online orif they've met. It actually would would...

...have shifted if there was more reallife tournaments, but right at definitely stands at the top for me by along shot. Yeah, I think we're just a lot like set in ourways too. It does feel like since there's not, you know, thereis this limitless tournament, but it and it is bigger than a lot ofregionals. But you know, the the importance of it in the grand schemeof things, you know it is not quite there. You know, there'sno championship points on the line, there's no prizes that could compare to likewinning originals on the line. Really all you're getting is like if you wintwo hundred bucks and some clouds. So you know which. You know,cloud is pretty nice. I got to say cloud is pretty nice, butit I think there's less innovation that that all occur just because people are kindof I have my deck, I know that this works well enough and I'mjust going to I'm going to roll with it, I'm going to take itseriously, but I'm not going to like invest in insane amount of time tolike try to try to go hard and try to test. So you know, I expect kind of more of that here in this tournament. Sure,sure, and I think, and you know you can stop me if youthink I'm wrong, but I think I'll just the nature of an online tournamentkind of inherently will make it feel more casual and make people less interested in, I don't want to say like trying their vest but like putting forth themaximum effort possible, because there's no longer that that physical investment of like goingto a location. And I mean I could just be in my underpants onmy couch. You know, Oh this card is glowing, drag it ontothe screen and exactly and and just like having you know, and then maybeyou're sending a work email on the other screen or something. You know whatI mean. It's just like there's going to be all this stuff that comesat you from multiple different angles when you're at home. That just doesn't happento you at a tournament, and so surely, surely that'll be a factor. Again, if you want to do the best that you can, tryas hard as you can to block those kind of annoyances out and just focus, just focus, for sure. I was a I was kind of thinkingthat a I hope this opens the door right for more similar kinds of thingsto happen in the future, because I feel like we have an opportunity nowto cultivate and online kind of gaming culture and Pokemon, and now it's tryingto really take advantage of that right and and make that into reality. No, POKEMON company obviously doesn't really have a ton of investment into it, feelslike, but certainly there are tons of other games that rely entirely on grassrootscommunities that I feel like pokemon has a chance to do something really cool here, and little less is kind of leading the trail on that. Yeah,it's very exciting. Yeah, I'm I'm excited to see how it goes.I hope you do well. Appreciate it. Appreciate a rally. I know you'llbe there the whole way cheering me. I'll definitely be cheering you, man, I'll definitely cheering. I'll definitely be hoping that you have the staminaand survived. Yeah, you're a little bit of a boomer, must say. Well, yeah, you know, as soon as it gets a boutto that like two or three o'clock hour, I start, you know, lookingfor my blankie, like taking a nap, you know, starting tothink about taking a nap. So let's see if we can make it onthat whole Saturday. I imagine falling asleep like betweet a rounder dude. Yeah, and that's another reason to play a quick deck. Is that you can, you know? Yeah, you can just kill. Yeah, if you'retake a little power nap. Yeah, that's fair. Take Oh, takea walk maybe. You know, actually use your physical body for something,for sure. Well, I have a standing desk now, so I'll probablyplay a lot of my matches standing. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, so I'm not just sitting for like twelve hours straight. Can't do that at a real pokemon tournament, that's true. Take advantageof it while I can. I'm askin someone just standing and plank cards.I did that once really. Yeah, like, it's a tournament in northeastOhio. I think it's probably at recess, and they like didn't have enough chairs. Are they had like plenty of room, but there were just somany people that came that they ended up having to put us on these likestanding tables that are for like minute. Don't know. I think like yeah, yeah, figures. Yeah, I know what you're talking I know theplace you're talking about too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it wasthe it was pretty funny. I remember are or if you did, ifyou did well, you got to sit and then if you did poorly,like if your record was bad, then you had the stand little but extraincentive. Right, yeah, exactly, is that? That's funny. That'sfunny. Yeah, definitely. Don't make the players do trying their hard.Is it doing your best, and that right feels incorrect to me. Right, cool. Well, I don't know.

Do you have any other takes thatyou'd like to present about the limitless tournament and what it's going to entail? Did I've just I've just loved a limitless has done. It's very ambitious, very very ambitious, but if they pull it off then that is justa huge blessing for the community. So I'm very thankful that they have tried. At the very least, they've certainly rallied a lot of people around thisone cause and I just wish nothing but the best for this upcoming tournament andthe whole series. Absolutely man, absolutely so. I expect to see morecoverage from us as these tournaments go on and develop. In the meantime,though, we'd love to hear some input from chat. So we've kind ofgone over our limitless tcg qualifier content for the day. So if anyone inchat has a question they like to present, will probably take, you know,four or five of those and then we'll move on to JW's after darkstream. I see one question right now that I think would be interesting attweet to ask. When you're playing an ATP deck, what is it deckyou hate to see or what are cards you've dread seeing your opponent play?Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just the hand does or the energydisruption. You know, an ideal turn one for ATP is just literally justgetting an attachment down onto an ATP and then beyond that, you know,pretty much everything else is gravy. But that's the really the only thing thatyou need as an ATP player for so and so and so any type ofdisruption on that is is a problem. I wouldn't say that there's necessarily adeck that I would hate to see. I mean there are certainly some conditionsof decks that I would hate to see. So again we're talking about things likebaby bill cephalon with a big hand, things like the Malamar having a bunchof Pokemon at the end of their turn in play, just things likethat. But that's that's more kind of in game. I feel very confidentheading into heading into the game playing ATP against pretty much any deck. Sure, I think that's fair too. That's how I felt as well as like, I feel like I have a good shot if that water energy survives theend of the turn. Exactly. Yeah, you know, then my opponent riftsout the wait and see hammer and it's just like they always have that. I don't feel like this anymore, just like here, can see right, I'm out brow right. Yeah, well, that's another thing too thatis really advantageous for for the players in this tournament is that we'll all getto see our opponents decklist. So you'll know when that wait and seemur hammerscoming down, and that can really inform a lot of decisions that you make. Like as an ATP plier, if I know that my opponent plays crushinghammer or wait and see, then I'll be more prone to try to digfor the Metal Energy Attachment as opposed to the water energy attachment, right,and so just you know, little things like that. But you know youcan optimize your plays that in ways that you normally can't, which I thinkis very nice. Do you think there are any cards or decks that areperhaps harmed by the fact that you get that preemptive knowledge of your opponents decklist? One of the of the decks that we've been talking about, I thinkone that has more disadvantage than the others would be a deck like Malamar.You know if they play one count of if they play one count of Mimicyou versus to if they play one mat Lana's fishing rod, versus you know, zero or two, how many spell tags they play? All these kindsof little decisions are pretty important for that deck, I think. Yeah,I agree. So cash man twenty seven and chat ask. Can you guyssee a surprise deck doing well in the attorney? I'll leave this one upto you, Riley. A surprise deck? I don't know. I guess itdepends what you consider a surprise like. I don't see something completely unheard ofdoing well, but I could definitely see an underrated archetype doing well.I remember the other day, Jed of you, you're talking a lot aboutthis mill deck that you really liked. I thought that was really funny.It doesn't seem like you're as interested in it anymore. I mean it's good, I would say again, I would say it was. It was thewith the for crushing hammer and the for yell grounds and I was like hey, this has, you know, a pretty pretty solid shot against ATP,and by pretty solid I mean like maybe five forty five against ADP. Soand like not auto win by any means, but you know, I was prettyhype about it. That's pretty good, sure. So yeah, I don'tknow. I don't know. I think the Metas gotten pretty far developed. So I don't know if there'd be...

...anything like truly shocking, like maybethere'd be something a little bit of a surprise, like yeah, like asthe first thing I was thinking of, like yeah, obstacleon maybe like dollstall could be something that does well. I think you know the the Meta. If people are especially people are taking out the Fion from lists like dollstall goons or some of the top, you know Middle Tier that could benefitfrom something like that, right exactly. So cashman specifically calls that real aboom as a deck that he's been seeing do well online. Used to bereally into reala boom. JW. What kind of happened there? Well,I thought it was Super Fun. I think it's a really, really fundeck. Shuffling and all your opponent's energy is super cool and if you cando that against an ATP you have a decent shot. Now there are waysthat ATP can play around it. So I haven't played the matchup against likein a testing situation and testing scenario where we're kind of, you know,going over the moves and preparing for that. So normally when I'm playing real aboom online, I'm playing against an ATP player that doesn't leave, youknow, energies in the disccard and so when I shovel all their energy backin, they can't metal patch back. You know, it's just things likethat that if you're playing in a in a testing scenario against somebody that youknow is is good and proficient at the game and knows what's going to happento them, then they would set up their board in a way to combatwhat you're trying to do. But real a boom, you know, finedeck. I mean it's cool, it's fun. Do I think it'll dowell? No, but you know, it's a fine deck. It's definitelynot a deck that I yeah, that I hate. I mean it's alwaysgoing to be a fun deck, though for me. Do you think willa boom will get the boost it needs with something like the Real Moov?Couldn't tell you, honestly, couldn't tell you. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah, we're I'm excited to dig I'm excited to dig more into moreinto the sets after after this weekend, maybe after the next two weekends.Obviously there are some of the limitless qualifiers that will be in the new formatand that is very, very exciting to think about, just because that'll bethe only tournaments that will feature the new cards, presumably. So you know, I'm excited to talk on the cast about what is the future of thegame with rebel clash and certainly don't immediately think of real a boom as beingthe deck that gets boosted by the V but at the same time, whoknows? You know, we just don't know until we can test for sure. So I know that we're trying to say rebel clash for like another time. Is there anything very preliminarily that you think stand out for rebel clash?Yeah, for me, I I kind of like in telly on v Max. That one seems pretty good. Like that's a of the things that aremaybe not as hyped. I kind of like in telling on V yeah,I totally he's did. Yeah, I obviously you know boss's orders, scoopup net. I'm really excited to see. We're talking a little bit before thecast about my initial time that getting into the game where SP's were athing and these zigzagoon plus scoop upnet is exactly Crowbad g plus pok a turn, and so I'm excited to see that Combo come back in conjunction with,you know, lysander, which was a hard I think printed around twenty thirteen. You can correct me if I'm wrong on that one. But again,one of my like earlier there, one of the earlier cards in the game, just that boss's orders parallel and to lysanders. So I'm just excited tosee these concepts be recycled to come back into the game. Let's see.Obviously, dragon pult to me seems like the card of the set, seemslike a very good card. Seems like ATP retains its power and I don'tnecessarily love toxatricity. So I think what you're saying is if you still haveheld out on buying your atps and his options. You should maybe consider rethinkingthat show its yeah, I would imagine that ATP probably won't get any cheaperthan it is now, and then Zatians are coming out with a tin,so you just like might as well buy those. I think you're right,man. I think you're right. YEA, ATP doesn't seem like it's going anywhereanytime soon. In my absolutely not very, very good card, whowould have thought broken guard it was like ATP. It didn't feel like itwas very good when it came out and then it got the perfect, literallyperfect partner. Is it's all about context, you know, because I think youcan have a lot of people say like well, you know, JWRiley, you said ATP was like average to bed and like it was whenit had the best partner, as Kelde,...

Oh, you know, which couldn'teven too shot a lot of gx's in a lot of cases. Sonow it has just this obscene, absurd monster inzation that it powers up with. In the context of it now is way different than it was when Iwas first released. Yeah, I totally agree, man. It's a it'scrazy how just the partner for a card can completely warp the perception of it. Yeah, Zosh, it has certainly done. That's Ashen is really changedthe game. For better for worse, I guess remains to be seen,but Zashen is definitely going to be on the forefront of decks for the remainderof its time in our rotation, I think. Yeah, for sure,this is one of those cards, just one of those cards cool. SoI think that will bring us about to a close for today. Thank youall so much for listening. We appreciate you all. We hope everybody isstaying staffe and healthy at home during quarantine, and feel free to reach out tous on twitter if you have any questions or are looking for us tocover anything on future episodes of the podcast. That's at tag team Pokemon, andif you're listening on any of your podcasting platforms, particularly on Apple Podcast, be sure to rate and review us so that way we can continue torise in the ranks and be more viewable and accessible for people looking to getinto the BOOKEMON trading card game. And with that, I'm Riley Hobart,my good friend JW A, Crew Wall and we'll catch you next time.Peace. So, yeah,.

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