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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 11 · 2 years ago

2-10. Limitless Potential

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Get ready for the Limitless Qualifier 1! The boys break down the expected meta for an unprecedented online event!

What is up everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert and I'm joined by my good friend jaw curry wall GW. How are you doing today, Riley, doing great. How are you? I am doing spectacular. My Guy just thriving in quarantine. That's right. I mean, we got it. We're there right where. We're kind of inundated. Now what was not normal before is the new normal. I guess so, man, I guess so. Have you done anything cool to pass the time and the past week er? So, let's see. My wife and I have been playing a lot of board games. We checked a few out from the library, which means that we will probably have them for potentially the rest of the year, which, you know, it's, you know, has its pluses, of Miss I guess. But yeah, we have this one game called site and Oh yeah, that's like it is like the most board, Hardcore Board Game Right, that you've act, isn't it? I mean it's it really, I mean it is, but it also isn't. I mean it's it's one of those things where it's like, if you know how to play these kinds of artisanal board games. Then you'll understand what's going on. But I could only imagine for a new player, you know, because it's like and then I move this where and then I do what to this and it unlocks this ability and it just gets kind of convoluted, like, you know, for a new player. A lot of texts and things like that. The rule book actually was funny. So we set it up on day one. It took the whole table, the whole dining room table, and you know how big that is, but it took the whole dining room table. And then day two we read the rule book and then day three we played the game. That was like the song my good because Anne was and was doing a bunch of stuff at work and she's like, okay, I can only handle so much, and so we spent like an hour putting it together, our reading the rules that we played on the third day. So's it was pretty intense. Oh Man, so do you end up winning? I did, but I think I had a broken I had a broken team. Okay, okay, yeah, I feel that for sure, and I took advantage of and you know, it was her first time play, it was my first time playing, but I was like, let's just be really aggressive and try to end the game really quickly, and I think with my faction, that ended up being the correct choice. Interesting. So what's your what's your favorite board game that you've played recently? Then? Well, we've been playing a ton of and if everybody's been listening to my streams, I've been raving about this game. But we've been playing terraforming Mars right. Have you played this game, Riley? No, but you have lightly told me about it. We will have to play it. Is probably my favorite game of all time. Wow, like maybe second to Pokemon, but even then it's like hard if I had to get rid of my gosh. Yeah, I know, it consumes our life. We're actually in the middle of a game right now where we were trying to play one really quickly and then, you know, we're doing the cast now, so it's just consuming my life. The the I think what really does it is like when when the art style of the game, the concept of the game and the mechanics of the game all work together and tandem to produce just this beautiful, thought provoking piece of art, and it's a lot of kind of building your resources but then spending to get things, and then it's kind of territorial with the board and there's just a lot of different ways that you can play it, a lot of different ways that you can approach the game, and that's what makes it fun and engaging and makes us want to play it over and over. That's awesome. Yeah, I'll be excited to check that out one day and it's definitely one of those games where, like, playing it in person is the one of the biggest joys of it. Like you can do it online. It's probably fine online, but like just feeling the pieces, playing everything down. It's just, honestly, I'm like a I don't know if I want to see purest, but I like to play board games and in person, you know. Yeah, it's an experience designed to be a board game. I wanted to be in board game for you know right. If it's designed to be a computer game, that's fine. I'll played on the computer of my friends, but right, you know, it has to be built to that audience, I feel like. And how about you, what have you been up to? I don't think I've had anything as exciting as a Revolutionary World Bending Board game experience, but you know, I've I've been having fun. I've been playing a lot of animal crossing and that's been pretty cool. I also playing a lot of team fight tactics, which is the most frustrating game of all time. I'm pretty sure I could ran forever about the way that they balance and and...

...built team by tactics, but I have fun still. My friends and I hover around diamond. Brady, you gotten masters yesterday and then fell out today, so he's back in diamond with the rest of us. What's the what's the like ranking system for tft? I played a little bit when it first came out but you know, never put that much time into it to learn all that stuff. It's basically Elo but hidden and it's hidden the it's masked in the form of like these leagues and League points and basically it's Elo and it's teered off into different tiers and so it goes from like iron two bronze to all the way to diamond and it follows a pretty natural progression. They're like silver, gold, platinum, diamond and there's masters and then the top two hundred maths stors our challenger and challenge of changes every day depending on who the top two hundred actually are Gotcha, and they actually just announced like the competitive being their plenty to do with TFT, so that they're going to bring the top x amount of players for a qualifier event and so, based on your ladder ranking, you can get invited to that and then you'll play off to go to the world championships, which is pretty cool. I don't think I'm really in contention for anything like that, but I think it's a fun game and I'd be interested to watch and see how that Hans out. Is so you say, when Brady's and master, is he like in Contenti or was in masters heat, in contention for something like that? Maybe one day, I think. I think Brady and I and all of our other friends who play are still a little bit short of reaching that skill level. But I guess you could if you poured it over from Pokemon, where like the kind of people who like are very interested in like learning from mistakes and getting better at things, and of course he's applied here in tag team all the time. So it's like, you know, I would love to apply that idea that I use and Pokemon to another sort of competitive outlet. In the meantime, when tournaments are a little more sparse, a little less sparse, little more sparse, sparse is like not. Well, often, yes, well, there are no tournaments now, right. So it's very spars it is very St Parson, why wait? So say you're sentence again. Hold, I said a little more spars we yeah, but in reference to what tournaments? The tournaments now are very sparse. Yeah, there's so they're more spars now. Whatever. Whatever I I just I guess I missheard you in context. I don't know what your well, speaking of whish, though, there is actually a tournament, not a sanctioned one, but a tournament, coming up this weekend and I think you're on deck to be participating in that JW. So, if you haven't familiarize yourself with it from the past couple of weeks, we've referenced it a couple times. But there's the limitless qualifier, which is an online, incredibly large pokemon trading card game tournament, kind of the first of its kind, really and really ambitious project. Really excited to see how it pans out. But it's going to be in the sword and shield format, kind of the one that we abandoned midway through in favor of quarantine ourselves and our homes and you know, I'm not sure exactly how to pan out. But JW, I know you're looking to participate. What are your initial thoughts on what this tournament will look like? Well, I'm really excited again. Like I've been saying the last couple weeks, I participated in the first iteration of the tournament. That one didn't quite go as planned and they ended up having to move it back a couple weeks. But the Saturday looking to play somewhere around eighteen to twenty rounds of Pokemon, depending on how many people sign up, and that should be really fun. I miss playing best of one in such a wide number of rounds. That was the format for regionals when I first started. We would play somewhere around, you know, nine to twelve rounds, depending on the size of the tournament, and that was always just fun because you went there, you played one match and then you were done. It wasn't like now where you know you kind of have to suffer through a second match if you're in a bad matchup, you're just like okay, yeah, you won, and like you get out it was a little more casual back then. Now best two out of three is a little bit more strategic, which also has benefits. But I don't know, it's just it reminds me of when I first started playing and that's...

...kind of a cool thing. Yeah, certainly a wholesome take on it. What are your thoughts on like the nature of best of one with more rounds versus best of three? Do you think one is like more reflective of skill or a superior tournament format, or do you think, you know, they both have obviously they both have their own merits, but yeah, I do think one is just a little bit better and the stronger in those regards. Or what do you think? Yeah, I mean I think best two out of three is pretty standard just for about any competitive game. You know, obviously you would rather have like best of a hundred, but at some point you have to cut it for a time. I think one of the major issues that we're looking to avoid, that we kind of saw in the two plus rounds of the original limitless invitational, was how long rounds would take. I think maybe the people at, you know, limitless, whoever rose running the tournament, maybe didn't anticipate there being, you know, these issues where they two players would go to time and then they need to call in a judge and the judge would have to resolve a dispute, and you know that just takes time and adds to round. So even though we're on a twenty thirty minute timer, certainly there will be some kind of extensions going on between the rounds, whether it's just to get things paired or resolve a conflict. I do anticipate the tournament to go on the longer side of a projected amount of time rather than the shorter set. So when you sail the longer side, do you have any sense of what that might look like? Well, I mean if you're thinking, you know, there's a twenty five minute time or like thirty minutes on each round, or saying twenty rounds, I mean then you're looking in at at minimum ten hours. So I would say like thirteen to fourteen hours potentially. Wow, yeah, that's definitely a lot of pokemon. So it is it is. Would you have preferred it if this was like a best of three with, you know, nine rounds into it? You know, seven round they two or something Um potentially, potentially, I think you just still get into these disputes like you'll get into, maybe, since it's so and again, this is so unprecedented that it's hard to like give specific thoughts on what it will exactly happen when these players play these games. But I think you would get into more disputes on time. Sure, in time disputes, just because there's so much more on the line with a there's so much more investment, just personal investment. Right, best two out of three. That's fair. That's fair. It's also, you know, two or three and fifty minutes is a significantly more difficult to complete than one in twenty five to thirty. Although although, in in the defense of best two out of three, is that it's all online, so you're not wasting time shuffling. You're not wasting time, you know, even so much as like reaching over the table to grab your opponent's discard or something like that. I mean there is like physical time saved. So in a sense absolutely, you know, in a sense it it could work, but I'm just excited to see what happens. I'm willing to go in it for the long haul and try to come out of it alive. So, you know, we talked a lot at about the Meta. I want to specifically talk about like a higher level of me a like actual real life like metagaming this tournament. Do you think there is potentially, and I'm inspired to ask this by actually a post a chat, whether or not the ship the control or thirteen hours? Do you think that you know, with the duration that we expect this tournament to last, that maybe the type of deck that you choose could be informed by that, I don't want to say like grind, but that extended duration of time that you'll be playing pokemon. I mean it's fine because I think a lot of times, especially in a tournament so big, that you're seeing a lot of maybe the the mid and top level players just not playing in I think that you will have like a fairly easy or straightforward, you know, maybe first five to ten rounds where you're just facing I don't want to call just people random, but just there's going to be a lot of people that normally wouldn't attend a tournament that are going to be playing on this online invitational. So I think you'll have a pretty easy path for the first you know, five hours if you play a control matchup, but then beyond that it might get a lot more difficult. So I think control would be a fine thing to bring and actually I would recommend it if you are proficient with control. I think it's a fine play for this tournament. Okay,...

...okay, so now we're getting into the realm of actual recommendations. What do you think that that is going to look like for this tournament? Do you think it's going to be another ATPS OSH in dominated format? Do you think other decks are going to finally rise up and pose a challenge? Well, yeah, eighty deal ATP for sure. Is that the deck to beat, and I expect a lot of players to be playing some type of variant of it or some type of counter to it. I think it would be extremely unwise to play a deck that's either not fifty or favorite against ATP or that isn't ATP itself. In fact, that's the deck that I'm going to play. I've been pretty open about it. I was thinking, like you know, maybe I play a control deck, maybe I play ATP, but I'm pretty sold on ATP just being the best deck that is in this current format and potentially one of the best decks that I've ever played. And so, with that in mind, I just like the consistency and the power of the deck. So I expect that to be one of the most played decks for very obvious reasons. And then following that, you know, counter things, stall things, but you'll see people playing cards and text specifically for ATP. The biggest that comes to mind is any type of energy disruption. So things like yeah'll grant things like crushing hammer. You already kind of of seeing crushing hammers just go into any deck that can fit them. Like, for the Mirror, you put crushing hammers in. In Peak Arom you put crushing hammers in. You're fitting extra yell grunts into stall decks. It's just kind of all for ATP and in response to ATP, and so I you know, I would expect that to be the same in the invitational. So you expected to be the same? Do you think it's the correct choice to play such heavy accounts of cars with the sole purpose of improving an ATP matchup? I mean, yes, I would imagine that. Of The let's just round it out here and call it twenty rounds. I mean it might be nineteen, it might be less more, I don't know, but twenty rounds, I would expect at least ten of those to be against ATP. So wow, yeah, that's an impressive Meta share. Is there anything that you're doing with your ATP deck that makes it stand out amongst the rest, even in the mirror outside of it? I mean there's not too much to say that hasn't already been done. But in response to things like the hammers and the yell grunts, I would play one or more one or two energy switch. I think that's a card that's pretty strong right now in the current Meta, given all of this energy disruption. So having the one or two energy switch gives you that out in case of a first turn crushing Hammer, that you can still get the next turn gx attack and beyond that, you know, there are even some games where you can get the turn one gx attack, which is just huge. Yeah, no kidding, and especially in like the dumber going second, exactly right right where you can pull that kind of out of your out of your butt. Watch your out there. But I know right this is a kids show for sure. So yeah, I would agree. I think ATP really still remains to be the force of your reckon with it's kind of a deck that I don't really like to play, not because I don't think it's good, but because everybody goes in hating it and it gets very frustrating to run into the counters. So I would like to adventure a little outside of ATP as well, because I'm sure there are listeners who feel the same. What are some other decks that you would consider to be in the top tier that are worth playing in spite of ATP's dominance? Sure, I really like blow Cephalon, the baby blow cephalon. I think that's a fine choice. I think it's a little bit too reliant on again, we're the whole Meta for me is warped around ATP. So the counter for baby blill Cephalon into ATP is be springer, and I think if you get that card on you know the turn that you need it, then you have a pretty decent, you know, even if not favorable, matchup. But if you don't end up getting it or your board just kind of clunks up or you can't really get an attacker going something like that, then it becomes a lot more difficult to win. So I like bliss Cephalon if you are feeling confident with your ATP matchup. If you feel like confident with, you know, having one potentially to be springer in the deck to take down that initial ATP when they Gx, then I think you're in a good spot. I also really like stall as we mentioned things like just since you know, based all or Piggioto based all. I think those are good choices for this tournament. Yeah, and that's it's a it's funny how pigey has kind of come back from the ashes is being a potential stall archetype. It felt like the mill had really taken over and all of a sudden you see people starting...

...to warm back up to more of a pidgey methodical or wrangler based control deck with dex like that. Is there anything in particular that you would recommend playing in them to improve their matches against the field? I'm not too sure. I haven't put my time into pidgy based all, but I can say for since you know they you know probably would want to play there for crushing Hammer, which is very standard, and then at least two to four counts of skull grunt, are Yell Grunt. Excuse me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely insane the kinds of measures you have to take to make yourself have a consistent way to keep that ATPGX attack from happening exactly exactly. I've also seen a lot on the ladder of Malamar and I've been playing Malamar a little bit myself and I from what I gathered, just just information from the last tournament, the last limitless tournament, but there was a, you know, very sizeable contingent of Malamar and I think when we get kind of in our little echo chamber, we kind of dismissed Malamar. At least I'm not a very big proponent of that deck and I think that's not the case for many other players. So expect to see, you know, Malamar ATP Blis cephalon stall. I think those are probably my biggest for that you should be prepared for heating into the tournament. Yeah, it's funny. It feels like all the time we talked about Malamar as a deck that will probably be popular and see a lot of play, but it feels like very rarely do we recommend it as a deck that you should play. That's kind I feel going into this tournament. Yeah, I feel like people overestimate the Latios into the ATP matchup. It doesn't. It's so it doesn't always work out the way you wanted to. And then there are a lot of right. There are a lot of like there are a lot of issues just just with a Lotios. You have to have four bench pokmon and if ATP, you know, goes first, then you only have the one turn to get five pokmon out with an energy attached. You know, it's just you need a lot especially if you don't start with the audios. Then you need a switch card to get into it. You know, there's just a lot of qualifiers for the audios. And then if the ATP player plays something like ABS all, you know, then it just gets even more difficult to pivot out of, you know, whatever you started with, presuming it's not the Lotios, and then even if you do get the Lutios attack off, there's like a very real chance that you still don't win the game. So it's, you know, just because the ATP player can can gust, they could play Fione lysander labs is very helpful. You have a lot of big charm. You know, things like big charm can augment the the math that the Malamar players trying to play with. So there's a lot of things that can go wrong. Of course, on the flip side, you know Malamar can do good things and can definitely win the matchup and they can definitely get the audios off before you get an ATP gx attack and and you know, pretty comfortably win games. But I don't even know that that's that's not a risk that I would be willing to take. I would it because it's pretty gree for the most part, and part of the reason I've explained this to a couple of my friends. It's like, you know, if you only get off Lotios, let's say fifty percent of the time you get audios off. Maybe it's more, maybe it's less. Let's say fifty percent of games you get the audios. Guaranteed. In some amount of those fifty percent of games that get the audios off, your board is going to be so jank trying to get that loutio. Is that you're going to lose anyway? Maybe you only got an ink gay and down or two down and the ATP gusted it and now you have one in game. You can't really do anything. Yeah, another percentage of those games the ATP will just overrun you anyway, which definitely happens. You're sacrificing to prizes off rip, basically with that Loutias, and like another percentage of those games you actually win. And so, yeah, like you're sacrificing. It's not like you clear vision and you're guarantee to win. If that was true, it'd be much more reasonable to say like okay, you know, like let's let's just grit, shake the bag, let's do this right, because you don't win every time you clear fish, and it's like it to me it seems fruitless, I guess, like you're putting in all this effort to beat this matchup. And, granted, moutmore does have some good matchups elsewhere. Yeah, it's like such a it's such an inherently inconsistent deck that it's like, I don't know why, like Malmar can even lose on occasion to like Babi Stephalon, and sure, when it gets to that point, is like why I'm play now. Are you know? Yeah, I...

...mean I guess just that you would say Malamar doesn't have any overwhelmingly positive matchups like that. I'm just thinking of off the top of my head. Maybe, certainly, you can build your deck in a way just I'm talking generic Malmar. Certainly you could build your deck in a way to beat certain things you know better than others, but you know, generic Malamar just has a decent shot against the field. So that would probably be why anyone would take a Ma Alamar deck, but again, just not the deck for me. One thing that you were talking about that I really kind of resonated with. I was doing a coaching this afternoon and I was playing Malamar and I was in this exact situation against an ATP where I wanted to get the ludios off, but to do that I had to bench a mew and a and like a meowstick, or what's the what's the evil as not have Esper Esper, and I had a bench those two and those are just completely dead in the matchup. And so while I did get the clear vision off, I still lost the game because I had, you know, to non factoring pokemon on my bench that kind of clogged it up and prevented me from, you know, building up more malamars. He was able to gust up some alamars and take those out and all of a sudden I had this extremely weak board stage. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I feel like I see that happen all the time with Malmar players that are going for the clear vision. One thing I will say if you're going to play Malamar, I think having them probably at least one, maybe a two count of the mimic you is going to be very helpful. I really like the to if you're going to be against, if you're expecting to play against a lot of ATPS, like just take those dubs and like knock out those auctions or at least hear yoursel off the best chance to, because you're not going to win if you're leaning into Gearthina. That gives them so much time to gust and figure out an alternative game plan, right, and you really don't want to give a deck like ATP time to figure out an alternative game plan because they write probably, and I yeah, that's definitely something that I like that you hit on here, because there are ways that you can build your deck to beat certain matchups and are beat certain matchups a little bit better, and so one of those ways in the ATP that you can improve that matchup is, of course, to play more things that can one shot a azation exactly. So just the thought, just the thought for sure. I would not personally recommend malt more, but that's something I would consider you if I were to put mout Mare, I sure. I'm also a big ban of the babyless on deck. I think it's it's pretty strong. It plays crammerrant, which inherently makes it a better deck, I think. And you know welder is it is rocks man. Who Doesn't love playing welder? Of course there's fun for five playing welder. You also open up those games where you don't hit a welder for like five turns and do nothing. So yeah, but I think of the of the top decks that are also just very fun to play. I would put blissfl on right up there just because one shotting in that way, like getting resources to hand, is Super Fun. I'd say like ATP plays off the board really well, but blow cufflon plays out of the hand and generally speaking, just playing card from your hand is going to be a little bit more fun. You know, blowing something up for three hundred damage is just more fun to me. So it's just it's the definitely it's the definite run hot deck for the weekend, but I would expect a lot of players to do really well with the stuff on? For sure, for sure. Do you like Stefan's list? Have you made any modifications to it since that came out? What are your thoughts on how to build being stuff on? No, I think I think that's a really, really good start. Again, we're just talking about minor counts, but I think Stefan is done just a great job and and I don't think that there's you know, I think a lot of other players have kind of followed his lead. Yeah, for sure would agree. I think Stefan has like fifty nine cards, maybe fifty eight, that I would just inherently agree with and a couple that I think are slightly more debatable. But what would you what would you change? Ile, just like so very minor things, like attacker counts and like adding one alternative attack or stuff like that. Okay, the original list didn't have a Victeini prism and I like having that as an option. Maybe it wasn't Victini, but some sort of like alternative attacker of that nature. And maybe it wasn't. Surely I'm like struggling to remember guy. I think. I think his list didn't have a big Tini. Yeah, I liked having it for the mirror mostly, yeah, because being able to recover all those energy in the mirror is insanely good. So sure, but other than that, I think it's like a pretty good frame work to work with right away. So I would definitely recommend that list cool. So I think that's that's probably like the top ish kind of decks. I would kind of like to look at the flip side, though. So last week we talked about the worst pokemon. What are some of the worst decks that you could take to this event? What...

...are decks that you would absolutely not recommend to a listener? Frost Moth, Frost Mooth, for sure, for sure, I wouldn't. I wouldn't recommend peak rom. Oh, okay, that's a little more of a hot take. So that's what rocks of a hot I take. Aram hate realm that you're in right now. It just well, I don't know, I get into this kind of like it feels to me. You know, this is all just big, a big art form, but it feels like it just doesn't have the doesn't have the staying power. You know, you're seeing, at least I've been seeing, a lot of me come back into decks, and so it's just obviously me is one thing that was missing from a lot of these decks that's now coming back. That is just such a huge hindrance to the peaker on deck. If you don't expect people to play me, you, I mean, then that would be one more reason to play pe K Arrom. But I just haven't found that. Peak Rom, even getting the turn to full blitz like isn't beating as much of the things as I wanted to be. So why do you think it's struggles in that regard? Is it just damage output? Is a consistency? Is it listed inefficient attackers? What's going on peak on? That's like making it fall short of the mark. Yeah, I would say the inefficient attackers. I've been finding that just and then lay game hand disruption. So indefficient attackers and Lake Game Hand Disruption, I've been finding, are just two of the biggest struggles for the deck. Interesting, it's interesting called hand disruptions. I feel like peak Ram is one of the decks that takes best advantage of hand disruption. So and also I feel like thend disruption in the Meta has kind of fallen mostly out of favors. So why do you call it hand disruption? Is being one of the major issues. Well, I just think of like a Marnie and just getting stuck with the wrong hand. In the Midden Lake Games with peak a ram can be really devastating because you're relying early on your Dedenne's for set up, as opposed to a deck likexation, which would rely, you know, could rely later in the game on their dedonna's to find their last pieces. I often find with peak am that I'm using my dedennae's to try to get the full blitz off, but then I'm filling my bench and then in the late game I just don't have that extra dig power that I would want. That's fair, that's that is definitely true. Peeker, I'M LOVES TO USE THE DEN A for turn one and turn to it feels like, yeah, I can't help but agree with you there. I was going to say they think the electric power is probably where it starts to struggle in the lake game like, okay, prestantly kowing those danks options gets to be tough. Well, especially now that you see, you know, two counts of the the frying Pan, you know, in a lot of optionless and just getting over that damage cap that to fifty damage cap is just really tough for Pek Ram in a lot of cases. On the flip side, though, you know, people like Andrew are testing out the wait and see hammer and similar such cards like crushing hammers and the like. Sure that obviously are very annoying for ATP to deal with, and if they prevent the altered creation, then it gets a little awkward for ATP because the math starts to get really weird. Sure, do you have any thoughts on on that? And do they have proof peaker on at all just because of the ATP matchup getting better, or do you think the deck still kind of lives in this unviable state? I don't think it's unviable. It's just like not a deck I would like. Of the four decks that we said were the best calls for the tournament, like Peak Ram is, for not there for me. I think if your want to play it, you know, by all means do it, but it's just not the deck that I've been finding has been getting the best results. And even you look at a deck like you know little bit of Cephalon, I think you can take a really tough matchup into that. Again, kind of depending on whether or not you can get a full blitz off before they can just start one, shouting your things, but I just don't think that the field is very favorable. And then you think about Malmar. That's also like a really tough matchup for you. So even if you're really confident in your ATP matchup, I think you struggle against those other two decks. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. It's tough. It's tough to balance that out, I think. So is there anything else that you have as like a high level thought about the Meta and how you'd approach it? Can't say that there is. I do feel like this Meta has been, you know, pretty pretty well thought out, pretty pretty just just smartly done in terms of the list that people are creating and where we've kind of molded this format. Now, as soon as I say that, I'll leave the door open for something to come out of nowhere. But I think Zatian is just such a dominant force that it kind of blocks out a lot of other ideas from from being viable and even yeah, we were...

...just talking about this earlier in the cast, about how you have to construct your deck in a way to have, you know, a shred of a hope against ATP. It's just amazing how this deck has has shifted lists. Yeah, that's for sure. I think when Yell Ground starts to include in list, you know that atpe is maybe I'll for sure, because that's definitely not a car that cracks like initial thoughts of the top ten cards and sort and shield. That's for sure. No, not at all it. The one thing I found interesting is the complete falling out of favor of the youtube all of our deck as well. Yeah, that felt like it was a huge Sword Shield archetype that was hyped up. It felt like people thought I had a decent matchup against ATP and then it kind of universally became out of favor. Do you think there's any reason that deck isn't a viable play? I couldn't really tell you. You know, potentially the uptick in Malamar from my perspective, potentially figuring out that it wasn't really that good into a tep, you know, is another thing, but I couldn't really tell you interesting. Yeah, I don't really know either. I was never a huge fan of that deck, but I thought it was odd how quickly it seemed to disappear after it was introduced, when people loved it. Sure, much ahead of the format being released? Sure, absolutely, absolutely, I think just it. It has struggles with some of these consistency issues and then you just bench so many gx. Has that the that, even if you're able to kind of like tank a few hits, I mean they can always just go around you and snipe off a bunch of things on the bench. You look at things like, again, the baby bliw Cephalon. That has a decent you know, shot at just one shotting you on turn to and it can just get really hairy with mew two decks. Now, I do like the Henry Bra and version of the METWO list. I again, I wouldn't ever play it. Nor would I like say, yes, this is a top tier choice and like one that I would say to everybody to play. I'm not saying that, but if you're comfortable with it, I don't think it's a bad play. Sure, yeah, that decks tough to play as well. It's just the way now. That's yeah, I think I'd rather play stall for twenty rounds than they play the me too deck for twenty pounds. True, man, that there's a lot going on in that deck and it's Cardia Jack Metal. Yeah, cool. So, outside of that, is there anything that you just like to say about approaching this tournament at a higher level than and playing cards and you recommendations for maybe players who don't go all to a lot or maybe any tournaments, to this is going to be one of their few experiences? Yeah, well, if you do, if you do want to make the most of this tournament, then I would just say take it seriously. You know, this tournament is going to feature a lot of good players, a lot of players that do want to win just as much as I mean, there will always be people that don't care as much, but you know, if you want to do well, just take it seriously and I know I'll be playing my games. I will probably stream them, but during the match I think I'll be, you know, devoting as much attention to the match as I possibly can, and if you want to do well, I would just recommend that you do that as well, because we're just at home home. You know, people are probably sitting at home on their on their laptops and their PJ's, you know, clicking away seat card play, Card mentality, not really caring, you know, it's a free entry, but I mean, you know, there's there's money on the line and if you're going to devote that kind of time, you know, of course you do with your time what you wish, but I like to have fun and also win. So if you're like me, just take it seriously. I think winning's fun, you know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Nice. I think that's a pretty good overview of the tournament. So, to recap everything that we said, we think that Malamar's the best deck in the format, followed by as option and, more realistically, though, it's at bes options at the front and yeah, you know, trailing behind it. I think this was Cephalon and Malamars also a popular choice of the crowd, for sure. Absolutely. That sound right to you? That sounds about right. Nice. So, unfortunately, I think this Meta has been like pretty well analyze. So it's like hard to it's hard to have too crazy of a hot take right because it feels like a lot of angles have been hit, and I don't know if that's because of the amount of time that we spent just playing online or if they've met. It actually would would...

...have shifted if there was more real life tournaments, but right at definitely stands at the top for me by a long shot. Yeah, I think we're just a lot like set in our ways too. It does feel like since there's not, you know, there is this limitless tournament, but it and it is bigger than a lot of regionals. But you know, the the importance of it in the grand scheme of things, you know it is not quite there. You know, there's no championship points on the line, there's no prizes that could compare to like winning originals on the line. Really all you're getting is like if you win two hundred bucks and some clouds. So you know which. You know, cloud is pretty nice. I got to say cloud is pretty nice, but it I think there's less innovation that that all occur just because people are kind of I have my deck, I know that this works well enough and I'm just going to I'm going to roll with it, I'm going to take it seriously, but I'm not going to like invest in insane amount of time to like try to try to go hard and try to test. So you know, I expect kind of more of that here in this tournament. Sure, sure, and I think, and you know you can stop me if you think I'm wrong, but I think I'll just the nature of an online tournament kind of inherently will make it feel more casual and make people less interested in, I don't want to say like trying their vest but like putting forth the maximum effort possible, because there's no longer that that physical investment of like going to a location. And I mean I could just be in my underpants on my couch. You know, Oh this card is glowing, drag it onto the screen and exactly and and just like having you know, and then maybe you're sending a work email on the other screen or something. You know what I mean. It's just like there's going to be all this stuff that comes at you from multiple different angles when you're at home. That just doesn't happen to you at a tournament, and so surely, surely that'll be a factor. Again, if you want to do the best that you can, try as hard as you can to block those kind of annoyances out and just focus, just focus, for sure. I was a I was kind of thinking that a I hope this opens the door right for more similar kinds of things to happen in the future, because I feel like we have an opportunity now to cultivate and online kind of gaming culture and Pokemon, and now it's trying to really take advantage of that right and and make that into reality. No, POKEMON company obviously doesn't really have a ton of investment into it, feels like, but certainly there are tons of other games that rely entirely on grassroots communities that I feel like pokemon has a chance to do something really cool here, and little less is kind of leading the trail on that. Yeah, it's very exciting. Yeah, I'm I'm excited to see how it goes. I hope you do well. Appreciate it. Appreciate a rally. I know you'll be there the whole way cheering me. I'll definitely be cheering you, man, I'll definitely cheering. I'll definitely be hoping that you have the stamina and survived. Yeah, you're a little bit of a boomer, must say. Well, yeah, you know, as soon as it gets a bout to that like two or three o'clock hour, I start, you know, looking for my blankie, like taking a nap, you know, starting to think about taking a nap. So let's see if we can make it on that whole Saturday. I imagine falling asleep like betweet a rounder dude. Yeah, and that's another reason to play a quick deck. Is that you can, you know? Yeah, you can just kill. Yeah, if you're take a little power nap. Yeah, that's fair. Take Oh, take a walk maybe. You know, actually use your physical body for something, for sure. Well, I have a standing desk now, so I'll probably play a lot of my matches standing. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, so I'm not just sitting for like twelve hours straight. Can't do that at a real pokemon tournament, that's true. Take advantage of it while I can. I'm askin someone just standing and plank cards. I did that once really. Yeah, like, it's a tournament in northeast Ohio. I think it's probably at recess, and they like didn't have enough chairs. Are they had like plenty of room, but there were just so many people that came that they ended up having to put us on these like standing tables that are for like minute. Don't know. I think like yeah, yeah, figures. Yeah, I know what you're talking I know the place you're talking about too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it was the it was pretty funny. I remember are or if you did, if you did well, you got to sit and then if you did poorly, like if your record was bad, then you had the stand little but extra incentive. Right, yeah, exactly, is that? That's funny. That's funny. Yeah, definitely. Don't make the players do trying their hard. Is it doing your best, and that right feels incorrect to me. Right, cool. Well, I don't know.

Do you have any other takes that you'd like to present about the limitless tournament and what it's going to entail? Did I've just I've just loved a limitless has done. It's very ambitious, very very ambitious, but if they pull it off then that is just a huge blessing for the community. So I'm very thankful that they have tried. At the very least, they've certainly rallied a lot of people around this one cause and I just wish nothing but the best for this upcoming tournament and the whole series. Absolutely man, absolutely so. I expect to see more coverage from us as these tournaments go on and develop. In the meantime, though, we'd love to hear some input from chat. So we've kind of gone over our limitless tcg qualifier content for the day. So if anyone in chat has a question they like to present, will probably take, you know, four or five of those and then we'll move on to JW's after dark stream. I see one question right now that I think would be interesting at tweet to ask. When you're playing an ATP deck, what is it deck you hate to see or what are cards you've dread seeing your opponent play? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just the hand does or the energy disruption. You know, an ideal turn one for ATP is just literally just getting an attachment down onto an ATP and then beyond that, you know, pretty much everything else is gravy. But that's the really the only thing that you need as an ATP player for so and so and so any type of disruption on that is is a problem. I wouldn't say that there's necessarily a deck that I would hate to see. I mean there are certainly some conditions of decks that I would hate to see. So again we're talking about things like baby bill cephalon with a big hand, things like the Malamar having a bunch of Pokemon at the end of their turn in play, just things like that. But that's that's more kind of in game. I feel very confident heading into heading into the game playing ATP against pretty much any deck. Sure, I think that's fair too. That's how I felt as well as like, I feel like I have a good shot if that water energy survives the end of the turn. Exactly. Yeah, you know, then my opponent rifts out the wait and see hammer and it's just like they always have that. I don't feel like this anymore, just like here, can see right, I'm out brow right. Yeah, well, that's another thing too that is really advantageous for for the players in this tournament is that we'll all get to see our opponents decklist. So you'll know when that wait and seemur hammers coming down, and that can really inform a lot of decisions that you make. Like as an ATP plier, if I know that my opponent plays crushing hammer or wait and see, then I'll be more prone to try to dig for the Metal Energy Attachment as opposed to the water energy attachment, right, and so just you know, little things like that. But you know you can optimize your plays that in ways that you normally can't, which I think is very nice. Do you think there are any cards or decks that are perhaps harmed by the fact that you get that preemptive knowledge of your opponents decklist? One of the of the decks that we've been talking about, I think one that has more disadvantage than the others would be a deck like Malamar. You know if they play one count of if they play one count of Mimic you versus to if they play one mat Lana's fishing rod, versus you know, zero or two, how many spell tags they play? All these kinds of little decisions are pretty important for that deck, I think. Yeah, I agree. So cash man twenty seven and chat ask. Can you guys see a surprise deck doing well in the attorney? I'll leave this one up to you, Riley. A surprise deck? I don't know. I guess it depends what you consider a surprise like. I don't see something completely unheard of doing well, but I could definitely see an underrated archetype doing well. I remember the other day, Jed of you, you're talking a lot about this mill deck that you really liked. I thought that was really funny. It doesn't seem like you're as interested in it anymore. I mean it's good, I would say again, I would say it was. It was the with the for crushing hammer and the for yell grounds and I was like hey, this has, you know, a pretty pretty solid shot against ATP, and by pretty solid I mean like maybe five forty five against ADP. So and like not auto win by any means, but you know, I was pretty hype about it. That's pretty good, sure. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think the Metas gotten pretty far developed. So I don't know if there'd be...

...anything like truly shocking, like maybe there'd be something a little bit of a surprise, like yeah, like as the first thing I was thinking of, like yeah, obstacleon maybe like doll stall could be something that does well. I think you know the the Meta. If people are especially people are taking out the Fion from lists like doll stall goons or some of the top, you know Middle Tier that could benefit from something like that, right exactly. So cashman specifically calls that real a boom as a deck that he's been seeing do well online. Used to be really into reala boom. JW. What kind of happened there? Well, I thought it was Super Fun. I think it's a really, really fun deck. Shuffling and all your opponent's energy is super cool and if you can do that against an ATP you have a decent shot. Now there are ways that ATP can play around it. So I haven't played the matchup against like in a testing situation and testing scenario where we're kind of, you know, going over the moves and preparing for that. So normally when I'm playing real a boom online, I'm playing against an ATP player that doesn't leave, you know, energies in the disccard and so when I shovel all their energy back in, they can't metal patch back. You know, it's just things like that that if you're playing in a in a testing scenario against somebody that you know is is good and proficient at the game and knows what's going to happen to them, then they would set up their board in a way to combat what you're trying to do. But real a boom, you know, fine deck. I mean it's cool, it's fun. Do I think it'll do well? No, but you know, it's a fine deck. It's definitely not a deck that I yeah, that I hate. I mean it's always going to be a fun deck, though for me. Do you think will a boom will get the boost it needs with something like the Real Moov? Couldn't tell you, honestly, couldn't tell you. Fair enough, fair enough. Yeah, we're I'm excited to dig I'm excited to dig more into more into the sets after after this weekend, maybe after the next two weekends. Obviously there are some of the limitless qualifiers that will be in the new format and that is very, very exciting to think about, just because that'll be the only tournaments that will feature the new cards, presumably. So you know, I'm excited to talk on the cast about what is the future of the game with rebel clash and certainly don't immediately think of real a boom as being the deck that gets boosted by the V but at the same time, who knows? You know, we just don't know until we can test for sure. So I know that we're trying to say rebel clash for like another time. Is there anything very preliminarily that you think stand out for rebel clash? Yeah, for me, I I kind of like in telly on v Max. That one seems pretty good. Like that's a of the things that are maybe not as hyped. I kind of like in telling on V yeah, I totally he's did. Yeah, I obviously you know boss's orders, scoop up net. I'm really excited to see. We're talking a little bit before the cast about my initial time that getting into the game where SP's were a thing and these zigzagoon plus scoop upnet is exactly Crowbad g plus pok a turn, and so I'm excited to see that Combo come back in conjunction with, you know, lysander, which was a hard I think printed around twenty thirteen. You can correct me if I'm wrong on that one. But again, one of my like earlier there, one of the earlier cards in the game, just that boss's orders parallel and to lysanders. So I'm just excited to see these concepts be recycled to come back into the game. Let's see. Obviously, dragon pult to me seems like the card of the set, seems like a very good card. Seems like ATP retains its power and I don't necessarily love toxatricity. So I think what you're saying is if you still have held out on buying your atps and his options. You should maybe consider rethinking that show its yeah, I would imagine that ATP probably won't get any cheaper than it is now, and then Zatians are coming out with a tin, so you just like might as well buy those. I think you're right, man. I think you're right. YEA, ATP doesn't seem like it's going anywhere anytime soon. In my absolutely not very, very good card, who would have thought broken guard it was like ATP. It didn't feel like it was very good when it came out and then it got the perfect, literally perfect partner. Is it's all about context, you know, because I think you can have a lot of people say like well, you know, JW Riley, you said ATP was like average to bed and like it was when it had the best partner, as Kelde,...

Oh, you know, which couldn't even too shot a lot of gx's in a lot of cases. So now it has just this obscene, absurd monster inzation that it powers up with. In the context of it now is way different than it was when I was first released. Yeah, I totally agree, man. It's a it's crazy how just the partner for a card can completely warp the perception of it. Yeah, Zosh, it has certainly done. That's Ashen is really changed the game. For better for worse, I guess remains to be seen, but Zashen is definitely going to be on the forefront of decks for the remainder of its time in our rotation, I think. Yeah, for sure, this is one of those cards, just one of those cards cool. So I think that will bring us about to a close for today. Thank you all so much for listening. We appreciate you all. We hope everybody is staying staffe and healthy at home during quarantine, and feel free to reach out to us on twitter if you have any questions or are looking for us to cover anything on future episodes of the podcast. That's at tag team Pokemon, and if you're listening on any of your podcasting platforms, particularly on Apple Podcast, be sure to rate and review us so that way we can continue to rise in the ranks and be more viewable and accessible for people looking to get into the BOOKEMON trading card game. And with that, I'm Riley Hobart, my good friend JW A, Crew Wall and we'll catch you next time. Peace. So, yeah,.

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