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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 13 · 1 year ago

2-13. Two Rebels in a Pod(cast)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Join the boys in an epic excursion through the new horizons of Rebel Clash! They discuss how good (or not) bosses orders will be, and why you should definitely take part in the Limitless Qualifier #3! Top decks of Rebel Clash and much more discussed in this episode of Tag Team!

What is up, everybody welcome back totag team, ING, quarantine, the POKOMON trading card games for Yer podcastingduo, even through coronavirus. My name is Riley Hulbert and I'm joined by mygood friend, JW T dw. How are you doing today doing great Riley Speen, a goodThursday? What can I say had some small group tonight with my church got tocatch up with them got to do some content creation during the day did alittle bit of work on a special project that I have coming up and yeah. I justgot to hang out with my wife, so Itas a really good thing. Yeah. I think thatsounds pretty satisfying. How about you Riley? What did you get up to today?You know I've been working really long, ships for the last two weeks, Yep so continued that my last day of that istomorrow. So I excited to get back to a normal occadence anything that you'regoing to do with your few days off because, like you said, you've beenworking pretty hard and in the group Shat it's been sounded pretty stressful.It definitely has been stressful, but rewarding all the same EA. I think itwas satisfying. You know. I don't think I would trade the experience that I'vehad, even though there are times that you know you want to rip your hair out.You want to just roll over and never wake up again, but I think at the end of the day it wasgood and on the whole I don't think it waspoorly rand or anything like that. So sure I am excited, though, to get like somerest in so this weekend and I get a recovery de next week to kind of recoopand get back to a normal lifestyle. After you know, hundreds of hours beinglogged and just a two week times fan absolutely that'll, be really nice, Ithink. So. What are you going to do with your timeoff are just like what are you Gointa Tarto do man your gon, to play some poke? Maybe maybe it's Someng to say I washoping I could go for some walks and stuff and it looks like the weather'sactually going on a downturn this weekend. So, okay yeah it was so nice. Last weekend I'vebeen getting really into Pokemongo, that's awesome, yeah yeah and I'm kindof like a typical boomer. You know maybe five years behind the well. No,when it came out four years ago, I'm like three years behind the curve, but it's been really fun. This week hasbeen the Canto Week and they're taking like one week over the next. I don'tknow what two months, or something and they're dedicating it to every regent,yeah, every generation, so canso and then so tomorrow. I think tonight theJodo region ove. So I'm super stoked. I just caught a shiny PINEACO, which isall gold. It looks very cool. That was like my one of my first shinese sincecoming back. I also caught like a shiny Yanma, which is also very nice, is gotthe blue outline instead of the red. So I don't know, I'm just Eni, don'tknow I'm enjoying the completionist aspect of it. I've been having a reallygood time defending my gym, which is this church. That's a six minute walk.Yes, I have timed tit and yeah. It's just been. It's just been kind of youknow that little they say you know, go, take walks right and go take like a tenminute walk in the middle of the day. Just so like get up and get out of yourchair and, like I've, been o just enjoying plang of Pokamango Woll. Doingthat and then just kind of you know chilling at home and like all right,I'll, throw it in its incense up, go catch. Some POKEMON, I've Het, the the weeks for generations are going tobe good for, like catching you back up for all the time you missed as well.Yes, yes, it really will because right now I have enough candy to evolve allthe starters up fully and I've gotten like some very reasonable starters thatwould be...

...powerful enough to use. And then I havea good friend who has been telling me how to use like the lucky eggs yeahoptimal times UAND. So since he's been here, I think I've gone up like a leveland a half utiv been pretty impressive e love, Lar, and then he well I'm atthirty, okay yea! It's the big milestone! Yeah Yeah, I just hit thattoday awesome dude. This feels pretty good man, I feelpretty accomplished the big three. Oh Yeah, a Fuck Abou Guy is honestly sofun. I Like I fall out of it in the winters, usually yeah yeah, but I love just like going doing acommunity day in the summer like yeah. I totally understand the appeal nowbecause I just did my first community day that I can remember I'm sure I dida community day in the in the past, but I wasn't really into the game. So I wasreally just doing it more to you know playcate my friends yeah, but I did theAmber Community Day. That was about a week or two ago, and that was justSuper Fun. You know you just get really excited when you catch the shiny ones,that's the three star or something you know. It's just super cool and EAH. Ihad a great time. That's awesome and that's awesome. Well speaking ofPokamine, though I think we finally hit that MilestoneanPokemmon, where a new stat US comeg out, I feel like people, have got tired of asort of shield kind of quick as fair enough, but before we get into REPA class stuff,how about just a quick overview of how letlets call far T on Yes, LimilisQuaifer to I felt was I'll, say I'll, say it was a success,even though I didn't make day to because I felt like I picked a gooddeck and for the most part played as well as I could given the hands that Igot, and I don't want to put it all on like okay, you know ihad been hands,but there were just some games. I remember there was one game where I youknow my only jross porter was a research and I drew into four of my you know an attacking energy right. Idrew into like three rainbows and a Aurora, and I was playing ATP SpiritTum. So, like basically half my adds to attacking, I just had to discard onlike the second turn of the game, and it just you know it's just things likethat where it's like. Well, you don't lose off of that, but your chances ofwinning go down significantly. I had pretty much throughout the day, wentlet's see against a Rilaboum Sinchino Malli Muto, welder Youtu, another Mailimutune round five and a firebox that constituted my first six rounds and I'msitting at three and three and thinking to myself. You know n. When are wegoing to drop? You know it's kind of getting about that time, but rip off acouple games against a chars, ARD, Brakson deck and a PEEKAROM. So thenI'm five and three and I'm thinking, okay, you know I went. I had a onepoint in the first qualifier nine ano streak, so you never know you canalways just finish it out, but then ended up taking a hard loss to a Pikabeat an ATP and then in the eleventh round I lost to a Sencino mill, whichwas really funny, because I think he didn't tell me this, but I think hislist was just like. He didn't have all the cards on his account and he justthrew together whatever he could and the closest deck that he could get to amedadeck was a milldick and we just he just won the game because he was like.I don't know it was just bizarre because he did better than any othermilldeck at just playing Belelva every single turn because he played, I thinkfour palpad and like four tag call and for Baleba. So he just like Belel witeverything. It was just very funny. You know because his deck was maybeunoptimized in certain ways, but just like did the exact right thing againstmy deck. You know it was just super funny, a friend of mine from MichiganState and yeah. It was, it was really interesting, like he played seven fireenergy in this milldeck and he played a welter and it was basically it was basically Orangaru Sincino withyou know, any kind of mill type card...

...yeu could fit in. So it was prettyfunny but ended up going. Six and five felt like I made a good deck choiceagain. The SPIRITOM ADP deck was the top twoseeds in two of the other pools. So you know I take that as a success. Youknow there are times where you know you don't do particularly well in thetournament, but you can still learn lessons from it and you can still takethings away from it. He thing I took away from it was just that you know Imade a good medical, but it just didn't pan out yeah for sure, and you know youcan play the best steck in the room and not get success. It just happensexactly I mean. That's you see it when you know you have testing groups thatthey take alist to a regional or an IC, or something like that, and you knowone person wins. The tournament and the other person goes: Oh three drop, youknow it just it depends on the matchups and it depends on you know what your opponents are doingso absolutely yeah. Well, I'm glad that you could like compartmentalize thatand take it into like a positive space right yeah a sometime. I feel like it'seasy to get hung up on like not making the dayto or what Havd you, but I think the growth mindset is to sayyou know I did this thing, these things right may I could have done thesethings better, but acknowledging that it's not holp toluck either is yeah exactly and I've just been having a really fun time withthe Stream to I've been finding that there's a lot of people that are prettyinterested in the limilists tournament and credits to limilist for putting onsuch an awesome event. But it's just been fun to you, know, hang out withviewers and have that kind of participation in between rounds andeven during arounds to an extent, but that has been really rewarding for meas well yeah for sure I've noticed that too, like the streaming communityreally is fostering during these these events. So it's pretty exciting to see.If there's still, I guess, vigor and excitement aroundPokemaon at a time when it's the hardest, it's ever been to play in thetraditional sense, yeah. Absolutely absolutely y! U See it from the topstreamers on down that the numbers are just up across the board, and thatmight be something that we coun talk about to in a future episode, but it'sjust been really cool to see just even streamers. At the you know that were atthe bottom of t, the charts, you know they're getting viewers and that'sreally really cool yeah. That's awesome! So any commentsabout like the organizational aspect of it or how that was handled compared tothe first, like two attempts sure this this tournament went pretty well, theyreally didn't have a hick up. I would give it a ten out of ten in terms ofhow it was run. I don't think that it necessarily could have been run muchbetter. They still divided it up into the four pods which made it so thatcertain pods could, you know, start a little bit earlier if all their matchesfinished and then just kind of give that little bit of wigger room towardsthe end of the DA and so that's again really good and yeah thought it was really wellround. Tournament Awso very pleased. Well, I'm glad to hear that man, so letmilis qualifyor to the success. I think we can write that off as being a majorsuccess both for limitless and the TAG team. So absolutely I think now is whateveryone's been waiting for for months and that's for us to start talkingabout revel clash. It's come out on Tcvo people are ready to startexperimenting and certainly have been over the last week JW. I know you havealso been trying out some new things and you anik some of that out on yourYoutube, as all is otreme. What are some of the things that are immediatelysicking out to you is being toppe heur contenders from the Lov rebel class set.Absolutely. I think there are three decks that come to mind as being the cream of the crop from rebel clash,and that's not to say that by any means that the set has been figured out, butthe three that come to mind as being just a tier. You know worthwhileinvestments of your time,...

...our dragonpult, which is a no brainer.I think that is just the biggest card fromthat and then untellion vmax. I've just beenenjoying the heck out of that and I'd love to explore a few new flavors, I'men tellion. There could be a Greens version that I have seen a little biton the ladder and have also heard a little bit about that play. Miss Magiuscould be something cool, but I'm currently running it with frostmoth,and I think it's a very fine deck that handles both dragopult and ATP, therebygiving it you know like immediate yeah cloud, you have areasonable footig in Teveta game. Just from that, exactly exactly you take you.Take a near Autolos to any sort of lightning deck that or any deck thateven like sniffs, a lightning attackrighno you just like you can'tbeat it. There's lighting energy in that deck. It's probably now it'sprobably now yeah, and I don't think that even you know weakness Gard likeis going to be your secret spice to beting. I think you just take a hardoutto that kind of stuff, but that's fine again. You have a really solid ATP, antrag pull matchup and like. If that is the proposed Meta, then I would be ahundred percent comfortable taking in and telling on deck and then the thirddeck, which I think is a little bit of a dark horse. But then I have been so surprised with and so pleased withthat. I want to just put way more testing into it, because I think thelist that I've been seeing are very as well as Milass, but are theyre justvery underdefined, and that is the Bolton v, zero Oradec, so completelybypassing Pikaram or maybe as like a one of attacker. But the focus isshifted from pekaround on the Boltond and the idea would be to attack threetimes. You know with your bolt attack with three bolltons right and- and youknow, take your prices that way, so I've really been enjoying that deck. Ithink the benefit of that deck is that it can. Itcan stand tototo with anything, has a little bit of a rough ATP matchup, justbecause of the prize trade like if they can get the turn one altered creationit's really hard to catch up right because they just have to knock out twoof your attackers. While you still have to attack three times and it's notguaranteed that you're getting knockouts every turn right, but if youcan survive those first few turns really just if you can, if you can geta knockout right, I mean before they alter creation right then that's howyou win, that matchup and then or if you can stick them with a Marny,lad or something you know there. You can still kind of outpace them justbecause your energy acceleration is a little bit more consistent than metalsaucers, although not by much but just you know, you're you're able to get theenergy in the discard and then accelerated with the Zero Oura on toyour bench and then you're setting up for huge damages knockouts withelectric power. But I think it's very solid. I thinkit's the deck that, while we're moving towards VMAX's having such high HP andhealing options such as super scoop up and Mallo and Lana really shiftingtowards like a to hit metagame. I think Bolton has the opportunity to kind ofspin that on its head- and just you know, eradicate all these vmax spokman.I think it has a pretty decent matchup and pretty decent chance to do that.Right and I feel like that's something. We consistently see Throughou POCONright its when metagames become just like slow to shotting format. There'salways that one deck that you know just obliterates those decks by just oneshouting them exactly it'll, have its own weaknesses and o become sort oflike a triangle. kind of scetario feels like exact, exactly cool, so I thinkthe car that people have been most excited about for a while and somepeople who are skeptical about it free rebel clash coming out, but I don'tthink there's much to be said about it...

...now that at least for the haters isdragonpole it was hard to. I think it was hardpreevel flash to like quantify what that hundred and fifty and fifty spreadwould like actually translate to, but ten or une an thirty sorry yea wat thehas what translite to but clearly that's become a staple of the Meta gameand spread. It has consistently been like a good option, but never likesomething that you build a deck around right and I think Dragonpol kind ofpulls it off well by mixing like a lot of tankiness, with a lot of likeadditional damage modifiers to keep bit garing right. So talk about yourexperience with that. What do you like about it? What do you not like about it?What's going on with Jackfol yeah and again I I mean I think dragonpolt issuper awesome. It does have these choke points and he and they're not very bigchoke points and thereare ways to get around them. But all I mean is like theweaknesses and Dragapolt come when you can't get to energy attached right orthey come whin they're. Just one shouting your dude, you know those canbe very big stressers on us, a dragopallplayer, but those are relatively difficult. Things for many decks to dois relatively difficult to one shot, a three hundred and twenty HP pokemon.It's weakness is dark, which is very good right now, tthere's, no dark attackers in my mind that are darkdecks. That kind of would jump out is even like a like a counterpick. Youknow what I mean like: Even the dark decks, don't guarantee wins againstDragapolt, which is Craz if the spear tum is like the only dark attacker thatcomes to mind, but then it's obviously weak to it's. Obviously, we to theSPENI so yeah. So it's just it's such a cool, Dag. It's such a good deck andthen the other thing is like getting the energy attached and there are acouple decent ways that you can do that, where you know you could play bead, youcould play Malamar. You can also just you know, manulate Thach, there's a lotof decks out there that are doing very well. That is just manually attachingone perturn and colon in the day. So I think the deck is well well poised tobe a contender. I would just worry about yeah attaching and getting oneshot. You know attachments, there's always going to be things like crushingHammer, there's always going to think be things like tml grunts, even AnnaPorter, to an extent egud you're playing the special energies rightexactly, but I think that the deck has enough to overcome it sure. So I guess, like you know this attack,isn't anything insane right mean it's a good attack, but what do you think isreally push them Ata game to his State? Where that's you know an acceptable and strongattack to TBE working off of? Is your entire Gameland sure there is a lot ofsetup in the form of DRACI tratches, a very easy prize, the Denna also anothereasy prize, there's a lot of games where they just go. You know threedamage counters on Dedenne and two damage counters on Gerachi and, likethat's three prizes next turn if they hit a boss's orders for the Dragon,pult tick right, because th n Yi can do Hondre and thirty to the active andthen the fifty teench Geraci, it's justalmost like uncounterable with the strategy which is kind of cool rightlike if you think about an inteliondick, and you know MEA would be a card thatwould really hinder its second attack right because you don't get the snipeon the bench, but you f kind of flip that with the Dragon Polt where thedamaged counters are placed and all of a sudden there's really no blockableway to place those dam. I mean you havethings like metal goggles, you know Aler, I guess you know, Ressky pillarsure I mean those are things right. There are some counters, but not reallyany easily. Techt counters that do much...

...in other matchups. So it's it's again. It's kind of uncounterable.It has a great weakness, a ton of health and there's a lot of differentways to build it. So going more towards that, like the waste of Bill dragonpult that I'veseen have varied from putting everything in it to putting notext into it and I think there's a fine balance that we can achieve somewherein the middle. I have been really enjoying scoopup net with Giaritina, and I know a lot of people have beenplaying Zigzagon, but the Guaritine ato me seems like the optimal play, becauseyou can scoop it up and it gives you that additional damage counter. Solet's say, like hypothetically, you were playing Zigzagon like three timesin a game. You know you can double up that whole damage. If you play theGuearitina and are able to get into te the discard, obviously, but sinceyou're already playing mesterious treasure 'r already playing quick ball,I think the Gueuritina might give you a little bit more versatility in terms of piling damagecounters on your oponis bench and should be something that I think peopleshould look towards. Instead of the Zixs agoin sure Malamar in the deck I haven't been lovingpersonally, but I would understand why people play it. I mean it makes senseright again, you you really only need like a one Maltamar up, because you just needto get ahead, usually one time per game, and that's only assuming that youropponent is playing something hyperaggressive that is going to beable to start two shotting. You know turn two or three which again isn'talways the case with current decks, and so you know you could play withMalmar. I don't personally love it. I do think that the deck needs some wayto kind of come back from getting to energy, discarded or picked up to thehand or something like that. So the play that I've been liking is justplaying a bead and just saying that's my out, but to not kind of not to clunkup the deck with too many. You know Malamar lines sure, because I oftenfind like it's more of a liability in the mirror, which is a funny thing to yea. So themirror is really awkward because you're trying not to play all your supportPokamon down right because they can knock out at the Dena and a DRACI. Thenthey only need to kill one drago pult, you know or or anything like that. So it's just very it's kind of. I don't know it'schanging the way that I think dek that you would. I don't know it's just aninteresting way to build that deck. I think there's bles Ephalon that I'vebeen enjoying in that deck the little blassaflon right, because if they knockout your dragopults, then they and that's the first thing that they knockout. Then they go down to three prizes and then you can bring up your blesSeflon and just like wipe their board a lot of the times and that cool thingthat you can do, there's just a lot of different angles and a lot of different.I guess not not theology just ways of thinkingabout it. You know if the Church of dragonballs its not et, I guess theologys, possibly a a way todescribe that yeah as a devout following right right. Soit's very cool, I'm just very excited because it is a deck that has veryclear. Very clear potential is obviously very,very good, and so you know there's going to be somebody that is going to come out with you know the definitivelist that does you know the best at the next limiless qualifier and I'm justexcited to see what that is, because I think that first person that does wellwith the deck is going to just define the deck for the rest of the metagame.Well, I mean I shouldn't say that not for the rest of the Medgates Im gin toset the town, though I're going to set the precident and everyone else is justgoing to copy them for a long time. Yeah. I feel like that's for sure, trueor that's how I feel like it always...

...goes right, even if it's not theperfectly optimal list, that kind of forms the opinion about how the listshould be srure and that's what it oes e around so yeah, I'm definitelyexcited to see not only dragobolt, but what kind of list cove out of e Lilisqualifire and how that'll shape the metagame moving forward. So you talkeda little bit about how Dragon Pole. I don't know if you wanted to say thisexactly, but it's kind of warping the way that you have to play your decks because you're right, you know you haveall these liabilities that are only getting amplified by the fact thatDragon Po can take advantage of multiple pokemon at once. So do youthink, there's going to be a deck building response to that? Do we haveto start cutting down on the support PA COMAND? We have to be just morecognizitive. Our play is scoop up net just going to become a staple, so youcan remove some of these liabilities from your board. What do you think Ithe situation there? Well, it's super interesting because the metagame is soearly right. The metagame is so early. We haven't had a tournament yet andeven like you know, I've run a discord. Tournament like you know, there's notgoing to be like the widespread amount of deck that we would need to actuallyform that good opinion. So we're stuck with you know, ladder play and justwhatever content creators are liking at the time, and so yes, the biggest answer to dragopultthat IV found with you know my intellion deck specifically. That Ithink extend to many other decks is just to find some way of consistenthealing. I think Mallo an Lana is very good, but the best healing that we haveright now is sugret Scopup, and you know for at least for attackers.You know you're thinking of attackers is like tag teams or Pokmon Vio emaxesright right, so that is the best form of healing, because it's the mostefficient- and you know, you're, going to need, generally speaking, to useyour supporter to draw hards because you're trying to set up these big. Youknow evolutions and that need you know certain Andrergy requirements, so SuperScu Bup is the best card. You know and then to I guess a lesser extent. Youhave you know the the fishing net right to pick up your basic non ex or non gxNonvi, whatever your Gerachis and the like right, but the issue with that. It's that you have Mr Min with the ability you knowblockup or SCOOPA block yeah, and so that prevents things like scoop up net and things like superscoop up and so have we been seeing that be played in list. I mean, I thinka lot of people are considering it, but again we just don't have a metagame. Soit's like stuper scupup is clearly very, very good in a two shot Meta. But it's completely negated Bya hard,like Mr Mine, right yeah, taking four cards out of your deck and then havingone card get rid of them. Is I real feels that Yeah Yep exactly exactly so?There are a lot of different supporter out for healing, I think. Probably thebest is going to be Mallo and Lana, but you also have Lana. You also haveGardinia if you're playing a deck that can fit it, but even those like I kindof am shying away from them, because in a lot of these decks, particularly inthe vmax Tex, you need to fish out an evolution. You need to fish out thatenergy because they have you know relatively hig. Your attack costs. Imean you say like okay. Well, it's not that bad with a with a card like Dragapulp, but it's I mean it's still to energy, on an evolution yeah it's toattach sand an evolution like yeah to attach Foth Sen, an evolution exactlyas opposed to a deck like Pikaram, which has both Coco and ThunderMountain. You know so just kind of...

...parallelling those it's just a littlebit more to set up, and so I'm finding that you need your your supporter to go towards drop forthe turn, so you can't often afford to heal. That's just what makes super scboutbetter. In my mind, right yeah. It's always interesting. I feel like whensuper scoop up is a car in the Meta game, not only because of cards likescoop up block, but just like there's so much going on the superscao as afactor the yeah there is there is and then super skibub is good because itallows you to be a little bit more liberal with your dedenes. You knowbecause I Dena earlan, you say: Okay, you know what I got. Four super scupups and the only way I lose this game is like if this dedenni sticks on theon the field, yeah and- and you know so- You'R use in your scoopoups to get thatthing out and yeah. It's just it's interesting thereagain, I think kind of the dark horse. I guess that just was not really a cardin the last format, except for maybe in certain adplist, but that should be amajor player in this wormit is the scoopup again we talk about theridiculous health of the vmaxes, the relatively little amount of oneshouting. You know we thought about Zatian as being this insane one shotmachine last format. That's definitely not the case. Now. That's definitely nocase now, and so the two SHAMETTA is in full force. I think we'll see that inthe next limales qualifier and super scoopup again should be that card. Thatis either everyone plays it or the decks. Th t t e do well are able tocounter it with Mr Mine yeah very interesting. So I guess just you don't have to go toomuch into this, but do you think it'll be better to play a Mr Mind and say y? U Screw the SCOUPUPS, or would yourather lean on to the side of you know people won't play Mr Ryme and I'm goingto consider super SCOOPUP as an option. I think the SCOOPUPS arstill good,because you know, if you there's not really good pokemon recovery, so th Tha, I hath Te. The Mr Mim has tocome down at the right time to so like if it comes down too early, then thatgives you an opportunity to gust it up and knock it out and then very likely. I mean in certain decks.Obviously you play ordinary rod and certain decks. You play Brock Scrit, Isuppose, but like the majority of decks are not putting, you know, are nothaving ways to put Mr Mind back into the deck and so f they drop the wrongtime. Then you just bust it up and knock it out and play kind of goes onas normal. Obviously, it's a little wauky because you had to use youraugusting effects to get the MTERMIME and then you're attacking into a oneprizer, but I think it's very reasonable. I would say that SuperScupup is just so good that I would rather play it than be worried about MrMim, but you just have to kind of know how to play against an opponent thatplays a Mr Mine for sure, and I definitely agree that if it's going tobe the difference between you avoiding knockouts in the future, it'sworthwhile to gust that mind because it, even though you waste a turn killing itin some cases you save yourself potentially many turns in the long runwell, and you may right, and you may even yeah and than may even evenOutanen, some right yeah with the SCOOPUPS. So it's just it's aninteresting thing that we haven't seen really play itself out yet, but shouldbe very kind of very kind of defining. I think of this format. You know: Doesyour opponent play Mr Mime? Do you play Scoopup? You know in that kind ofinteraction, so I think this transition's pretty well into the nextthing I wanted to talk about. You mentioned Gausting, the Mr Mine, and wecannot talk about Rebil clash without talking about bosses. Orders. Lisanderis back and better than ever, maybe I mean we've been missing out onaugusting effect. It feels like we've...

...had a gussing effect for years in theFORMATC and then had this weird little gap where there was nothing besidesthese item cards and we're. Finally, back to having a supporter, how doeshow 's that feeling for you? I am not the biggest fan, but obviouslyit's a little bit more more exciting to me than the healingoptions that we have right like if we're saying, if I'm saying that OkaySup scupup is better than mallow and Lana, because you need to use yoursupporter for turn to draw, I mean I still think that automatic gust is justvery, very strong. However, I don't know that it belongs in every singledeck and that I might this might be a controversial opinion, but it isdefinitely biased by the intellion that I've been playing where I just haven'tbeen finding that I need the gust sure of boss's ordersthat I couldn't just get from. You know a catcher and I think in a lot of time,in a lot of cases, you only really need, like the one gust per game to Wan, especially and like this islooking specifically through the lens of Boltond intellion and DragapoleBulltin you're, trying to one shot the active rigt. You know you do want togust right. There are times so you would play you know at least a fewgusting effects, but like for byind large, your one shouting, the activeyou know, you're not trying to pick off things on the betch in tellion. You have a snipe attack,that's the best snipe attack that we've seenin a long time and then with Dragon Pot. You also have a snipe attack, so likeyou're, putting a lot of pressure on the bench and you can potentially bringthose things up to very high. You know very high amounts of damage and thenknock them out, and then we have kind of a pseudogust with feone. That's likean automatic but searchable, and so I think that takes care of a lot ofthings right. If you're trying to save as many damage counters as possible,that's a big thing with snipe deck sure is trying to maximize the amount ofdamage that you're putting on your opponents field right, because if youhave an opponent's active Fokmon that has ten damage, ten health left you'renot going to want to swing into it. With the you know, main attacks likefull damage. You want to try to bring it to the bench and try to snipe itright so that a new pokemine can take most of the damage, while that benchpokmon can take the auxiliary snipe effect Yep, and so I think you reallyonly need like the one gust per game. That's not on a feon! You know you needone like automaticgust in a lot of case. Maybe two but got ta say cards like Pokemon Catcher. I don't think they'regoing to go away so quickly, like I don't think. Posses bosses orders verygood, very good card like don't don't twist my words and say Jake thinksponses order, suck. No, a that'll, be the click fay tie O for this on forsure, absolutely absolutely quick bay title for sure. That's that's! Whatwe're going for here is Qlickba, but I just don't think you need to you needto. Instead of saying: Oh, yes, spossis orders as automatic inclusion, you needto just stop and think and say well what do I need? You know? What do Iactually need like? How many times am I actually agusting and then, like whe,were talking about these VMAC pokem on they need a little bit more, I would say generally then the tagteams needed, and so you are generally going to have the use your supporter todraw right O. With that in mind, I think that custom catchers areprobably you know, are fine, and I also think that Pokema kitches are fine,yeah and actually that was the point I was going to go back to when you firstbrought up the problem with MEMAC, not really problem, but a subeffect ofvmaxes right is that there's stuff that you need to be doing a lot of the turnse, I think decks like ATP. You know they're a little more passive, don'tnecessarily need to do a lot of drawing...

...in the late game, but right rex, likevmaxis, you know they consistently need to be finding pieces over and overagain to make their whole deck work. That's kind of just how it is when youplay an evolution deck in the first place, and so the side effect of thatis. If you play a draw supporter, it doesn't matter how many bosses ordershe draw into after that you cannot guss that turn exactly and so cards liketook my catcher and custom Getcher, especially if you don't need to gustvery often are are great, no right right and that's that's. The thing, too,is like a lot of the time you're trying to get through like a vmax or whateverthey have active or theyre ATP right and then you're looking to potentiallyknock out one of their auxiliary attackers and then pick off somethingto end the game. So bosses orders again good card, but just you have to reallythink about what you wanted to do and if pokemon catcher or custom catchercould do that same thing, but a little bit better right, yeah and I thinkthat's that's something. Generally speaking, is hard to get the rightbalance of right. It's a ats going to take just experimentation and getting afuel for the engines of these decks, and I don't know if the metagame istruly in the playestate, where we can say objectively what those counts mightlook like, but I think you're on the right track right where it's going,it's not going to be just a blowout or bosses orders Tis, just the only waythat you gust anymore, grum, just the way the metagame is working isdifferent than it was when lysander was a card exactly. I can't really just sitand lie. Sander most turns like you could, with back in the day, exactlyexactly cool yeah. I think that was a really good point. So the only otherthing I think specifically I wanted to hit on was the effect of Eldagoth, andI think aldagos is interesting because it almost feels like it piggy backs offthe power of boss's orders to me right, because it's really only as good as thetext epporters in my pan right right. Yes, yes and there are like I lost to a deck the other day. We'retalking about all this digging that you do with the vmax ticks. I lost to adeck the other day that eldegost for the Belowban brisen man just got rid ofmy last tree Cardo that up that's another thing, though, while I bringthis Belovan Brycon. Man is very, very cool right now, because you can discardyour own bench mmm and so as like another o Hoodo. As another pseudohealing option, you do have Bheloan brisen man. I just want to bring thatup. Make that known to our listeners, that that is something that also can beconsidered. But yes, your a hundred percent correct on your assessment ofEldagosh is only as good as its text supporter so like if you're onlyplaying a deck. That's like you know. You got your four research ind your forMarni, probably not lookingto playing eldegosh, because should you know be able to you knowwith Geracis or dedennias or whatever. You should be able to have thesesupporters whenever you need them, but if you're playing bosses orders ifyou're playing belowbom Bryceonman if you're playing Mallo and Lana those arekind of the three right. Now that jump out to me as being the Texh reportersthat you would want to play, elde gost to just immediately return. It's it's acool card. I like it. I haven't really been finding uses in my in my versions of the list and that'snot to say that it's bad, I just haven't conceptually, been able to find the best uses for it because,again like in the VMAX DEX. It's not really that good to have two prizepokemon down on your bench yeah, because that's just a OOne, moreeasy target right, so they knock ot a DRACHI. They knock out the Dena or eldegosh, and then they not going tof bemax. You know so it's just kind ofshortening the game a little bit right and then I just haven't found incertain other decks that you end up having the bench space at the end ofthe game. You know it's just kind of awkward like an ATP. For instance, youknow you're going to have your two attackers going to have your ATP you're,probably going to have Asatioan if...

...you're playing custom catches, you'relikely going to have in Arangaroo and then that last slot, like is going togo towards your consistency, pokemon like the Denna or something like thator if you needed to play, you know feon or if you needed to play another Gerashi dawn for some reason. You knowso the the bench space is so valuable right now for many different reasonsthat Eldagosto me just hasn't been a card. That's that's been an autoinclude again. You have to really think about how the prize trade is going togo against the matches that you're expected to face and whether or notelust fits into that plan. I think there's some other factors too, that I don't think you necessarily neglecteddimension, but just that are worth thinking about Ye, and I think one of them is that thetext supporter lineup, that we have honestly isn't one of the best wo'veever seen Sur like this, isn't an ero where we have. You know Asarola andGozma, and all this you know probably those are maybe the two biggestoffenders were like those are insanely powerful cards that obviously you'dwant to recycle. It's like you know, Marni's NOK card like these healingcards are okay, but it's not like complete GAM breaking away thatPaceroller can be yeah. I think Estrola is probably one of the best examplesthat, like a tech supporter that can completely flip the game in a seconddumb- and you know, I don't think we havethat same level of of raw power in a tech supporter right now. That's worthrecycling, obviously boss's orders is good, but you could just play Ino theirprosces order and seven held to Gos. I think all the God shines the best whenthere's great multiple options that you can pull from, because otherwise youmight just play a copy right. Exactly and that's. The thing too, is like youknow getting back to the original point that I was talking about it Elde Goson,just kind of expanding on that, like you're playing your for. If you playyour four research and your for Marny, and then you play two bosses orders andyou play an elde goth like it really at that point. Doesn't really matter likejust play the third boss's orders and don't give yourself the possibility tostart such a bad. You know starter or it's to play a town of he lay game likejust play that third cop right yeah, I think Alde gospiwill probablyeventually find its niche. Even if it's not an all start right now,not to say it's not good right now, it's obviously a good car. Like that'sa good effect. You know o matter how youitly play eventually. I don't knowthat, like I can't with certainty, say that itill seplay now, but I mean it,should it's just good, it's yeah good and I think you know there is merit as well toplaying an over a copy of things, because it is, you know, searchablequickball option right to these supporters. I think the decks thatprobably take advantage o that the best are going to be like these wilder decksthat are going to now play welder as often as they can right sure sure andthat's Howtr. That's a great example where, like you want a fifth copy ofsomething, but if you really need a fifth copy of like a you know:professors, research, I'm just wondering like where your game PlangLegenor, that Ta exactly you bring up a good point therewith the wilder deck like, of course, wilther is always wanted more weltheres.That's why we were seeing you know: PALPADS get put into decks right. UThat ut! Yes, you're! A hundred percent riot like if your deck is not basedaround Wellther, doesn't have a ton of texh suporters, then elthe gos justdoesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah yeah, I agree completely. So that's kind of just our general adviceto you. I think that applies it's a more cards than Elde Gos, it'smore of like a wide spread thing right, like you have to. I think you have tothink of the marginal value of every Gardn your deck. In addition, I justlike the upfront value right and so aldegosh is a car thate's. A lot of APfront value like Grabavseker is just a good card. It always has been, but themarginal value of including Elde Gosind, putting it on your bench yaud doing allthis stuff, its not necessarily worth the cost that it you know. Inherentlyhas s right and it I mean I'd, say the...

...same exact thing about Mutu, becausethat is seeing some play. You know Mutu is a little bit worse than Al the Gosp,but a little bit better in that it only gives us a one prize but you're puttingit back on the top of your deck, and then you know you could draw through itwith like acro bike. Youtr draw that card with a rengaroo or something likethat and like same idea applies. I think a lot of people play Mutu in listwhere they have the scoop of net, because it's just fun you now it's afun thing SFN. So let's just play Scopon net with every singlepossibility and again just just think about what you actually want again. Ifyour deck is centered around the three pillar, supporters of research, Marniand bosses orders, then I would shie away from you to or Al The gost justbecause you could just play a third goffee or fourth copy of vossis orders.A forth copy of bosses. Orders like makes a lot of sense too. In my opinion,right now, Ofer like if you're playing three bosses- or I don't know that anydeck is doing this but like if you're playing three bosses orders and a Muttuor something like that- just play the fourth boss's orders. You know I mean no real reason not to esure yeah. Ithink I agree with you for the most part there. So I think those are themain points I wanted to hit on with repo class 's like some of the higher level like deckbuilding. Things like what is actually fundamentally changing about the game,and I think we did a good job talking about some of that stuff. What else issticking out to you about this says? Is there anything that we did cover thatyou really want to speak your mind about? Well, I think it's really fun, becauseit's fresh. I hope that it will remain fun and I have I have a you knowreasonable hope that it will. But you are seeing that the influence of thegame developers is very apparent in that they want to to hit Kao Meta andthey only want, and they also want, like a rock paper scissors Meta where, like we were saying earlier, you knowand Tellyon just loses the lightning and like lightning backs lose to Faling,and you know, and then the the whole circle of of weakness, just kind ofcontinues. Yeah, seeing that just in full force, that's kind of what thegame designers intended when they got rid of Farry typing, and I just I hope that wedon't ever come to regret it. The thing that I'm really missing is like themimic ees of the world, the kind of revenge attackers that can beslaughtered in to any deck to try to get those one shot on like a revenge,and so maybe that I'll come back in the future.I'm not too hopeful. But you know that's kind of the one thingthat I'm missing from this format is just that that auxiliary like backuplike tech for certain matcheps. I don't know that there's a ton of teckingindividual pokemon for matchups, so you're more kind of constructing thedeck to handle certain matchups yeah. If that makes sense like you're,not not adding that one, you know acing the whole pokemond that like okay, ifthis exact you know plan happens, then I can just win this matchup. That'smore kind of you know. Okay, Oh, I know that they're playing a Mr Mim in theirdeck, and I know that I need to heal a few times. So I'm going to add morecopies of you know Mallo and Lana. Like that's my example here, your whole deckhas to be kind of constructed around what they're doing I guess like do youthink that is inherently worse? I mean, I think, almost that it forces you tobe more. I guess active in your decision making,whereas one card text or k less costly choice, so it's not as like harmful. If,even if it's not as useful of at decision, I mean it's something again that I'llhave to. I just have to give the fourmanute to do and see it's just kindof the initial thought: okay, we're losing all these kind of Terer, there'sno real yeah. Surprise. You know...

...attacker like that in this format thatcan one shot vmaxis, and so it's just kind of making me reconsider like how to play the game, and so I guessthat in that an of itself is good and I'm just lamenting the fact that we'rethat were missing. Something like that, but maybe, like you said it's not goingto be a problem in the end yeah. I I don't necessarily think it's a problemor not. I just think, there's a positive element that could be appliedto it, whether or not that pans out in like a positive metagame way. Just moreabout like. I think there is a lot of value in forcing you to be active inyour decision making. There's. I think a really good example of this is playing Guirtina in deck back whengriningerbreak was tha thing sure it was basically a mindless inclusion,you'd cut one silly card included Guiuritina and your matchup now grantedgrenigeit could still bea a lot of deck but played it, but like yeah, yourmatchup was massively improved for almost no cost. There wasn't any likeactual deck building decision making tit's going on in there. It's just like.Do You iys R, plain to see a R Greenija, all right, yeahright solike, I'm gladthey pokeimon a searched away from that kind of yeahering, which I think itactually was doing it for quite a long time. So. Well, yeah, and I mean youlook at cards like wabefit as your as you're bringing that to mind. You knowthat blacks, all the PRISMS, you know- and that's just like a very goodcounter to anything that runs victini or COCO specifically, would say, and soyeah we don't just we just really don't have that yeah right so wthat's, ifthat's good or bad or doesn't matter or what, but you know it'll be interestingto see for sure. So I think now is a good time to start opening up to thechat. I'd be really interested to hear what you are experimenting with, whatkind of things you're liking and what you want to hear for Monts so feel,Freeto leae, you ve comments and then chat. We will get to try get to likethree to five of those surefore we wrapped up for today and so JW. My onlyother question to you is: What is your favorite rogue strategy? That's comeout of rebbll clash, myfavorite rogue strategy. I would give like an honorable mentionto the Caparaja like tanky yeah, because that has been super fun to if,if the deck you're playing is slow enough, then it's just super fun totank like sixty damage, every single pur and to play all the healing. It'sjust not going to work because too many decks do too much damage or just likeyou know, spread or whatever it is. They one shot or spread or anythinglike that and they just mess with your strategy, but if you're playing a as aslow enough dack that's been super fun. The other thing that I've bee reallyliking the best meme deck is just an update on an old mean deck, but that isthe baby triodeck running scubum nets to spe, Shamans andexpanded is unreal. It's Somi saw your video on that today. Yeah did you likeit, it was super, and that was that was like one game, but we had like threegames. I think just like that. One Yeah, and that was funny yeah best one yeahhat- was actually like a concept that we were trying to formulate. Notnecessarily you and me, but like I was talking to some other Ohio playersabout an idea like this before Scu on net was even announced just like trying to Ploug through thedeck and get like turned to baby attack yeah, and so it's funny to like seethat realized right. Exactly it's it's Super Oss I mean that's the most funthing I would say other cards than that. I really like that. Maybe aren't thehighest your competitive, but again fall somewhere on this like circle ofweaknesses, is the failing. Stick that thick is really really cool and kind of it like auto, wins anything thatdoesn't do a certain. You know it has like that certain threshold yeah right.If they can't ever take out the Faylenx vs, then it's almost impossible to win,so I've really just been liking that...

...archetype every time I've playedagainst it. Yeah, that's cool, that's cool for sure. It's very emission oflike the Simian archetypes tot old, but now with this with additional V tospice it up a little bit so yeah and the damage reduction is ridiculous.Yeah Supero puable, it's very very cool. I mean it has his weaknesses and likeplacement of Damn caunters and things like that. It has a place. You know and a lot ofthese things like reelaboom vmax, has a place in the metagame. I don'tknow if it's a you know very viable place at the moment, but like it's verycool and I've even been seen, some welder Mutu decks doing pretty well andso tat ort of very interesting. So a lot of different ways. You can goat this format. I think awesome, so jol fintman at chat ass. Do you think scoopup net will eventually get a band and expanded when tournaments restart seems likely yeah. I got to agree. I think that was a cardthat as soon as that card was written, yeah and presented on it' to like Y, the steering committeeof Hokeman, they have to be like okay, this is fine, but if we're not going towrite ex on this like right right, exactly exactly yeah, I think I thinkit's like clearly meant for this current format and not for past formatsrign. You know, and that's just going to be what it is, so we get to enjoyour time with it well at last, and then I think it probably will be banned. Idon't know when that'll matter, probably you know maybe not for a whilewho knows but yeah probably card that's going to get banned yeah, and I thinkone thing, that's interesting that I think scoopup net kind of signifies ispokemon graduating, I guess from exis Sois they're not like inherently goingto be included and cards moving forward. So you know that doesn't necessarily meananything for like Spanity rotated or what have you, but it's interesting tosee that you know now. Exs are effectively in the Pash for ocome on,whereas they were still kind of inherited into the Gxera sure.Absolutely absolutely. I definitely does feel very fresh with the vs andthe vmaxes. You know just I mean thinking about the concept where youhave a you know, anyx that evolves into anx orgx that have alsome to a gxm. We didn't really have that before now we do inthe form of v. You know two price poke mount efvolving into three price: PokeAmon, that's very, very cool, very fresh and yeah. I mean the Yxis yeah,see you later see late, ime now it's time for Mesterise yeah and who knowswhat they come up with next. So true, Tod Flyrman also says that he's beentrying baby. She go with Dragon Air. Have you tried anything like that? Yet? No I haven't I haven't yet I meandragonair was an archetype in the past that it's our cry, Yep with dark Reyethat was reasonably good. I Dont Wa Rememberi. I thought that that was sobad. You thot the NECKOSOE, like I remember, being like the kind of deckit's kind of like whimsicot from this last format, where it's like people cando well with it and maybe get top a, but it doesn't ever really go past.That and like people are just playning it to have fun yeah, it was fun. It was very fun. That was like a that'sthe kind of Thak I like on Tcgo, you know or you you dragons wish just likewhatever happens after that is not in your hands anymore, exactly exact. We have something here earlier in thechat talking about will. Yes, there are a lot of cards that are flipping SuperScubup, Pogman catcher are the ones that come to mind immediately and socould well see some play. I don't think it's out of the question again. TheSuper Scoopup is so good that it could like on its own, like withoutthe Pogema catcher kind of justifyd.

The inclusion of will again this two hit Meta is is so isgoing to be so prevalent that I wouldn't be surprised to see somebodycome up with a will package, IEE wisu in their deck. I guess like I could seeit, but to me I kind of go back to the point you made earlier and I think thesupplies even more with super scoopups for, like you, have to draw into theSCOOPUPS and the will ahead of time like made that even work- and I just Idon't foresee that being a consistent possibility, and maybe I'm wrong onthat. I would be happy to B wrong about that because I think texh supportersare have been a little choked out recently. I just like it's tough, it's tough,because you have to draw the flot card and the will and decks that already need to be trying alot of cards right. So right, it's I don't know, I'm not a huge fan of willright now. But if someone manages to make well work, I would be ecstatic youknow. That's that card is awesome ever Yeh yeah I mean I think itcould be like will is a supporter that we didn't really talk about with EldeGosh right because, like play elthe Goshs to recycle the will, and then youcould supursuit of yeallthe gos guaranteed and that's what I'm sayingit' a broken limited COMOG for of Ithuh Uhhuh Ha. I mean I would definitelyhave respect for my Hona if they did that. That sounds like a really fun like wayto just lose the game right like a good losing or like you a Tcgo, your justflexing kind of e. It definitely has a snitch there, oh for sure, for sure so,Riley are you going to play in the limitlist qualify number three, I'mthinking about it! Yeah! Obviously, things have been really busyfor me, so I haven't been able to build up my tcgo because I literally haven'tbeen on this computer in two weeks, but I'm excited to really get my handsin this format. I was kind of I don't want to say disillusion, but I was justkind of done with sord and shield format. So if I think, if there's something thatexcites me enough to like get me going, I would love to play a tournament right.Well, we should collab right, yeah, you've been rearing Niccolab for sure Ihave been rering. You want to take advantage of thisgigantic gigantic brain Ich. I don't blame you, that's true, very handsome brain aswell. Yeah, no kidding very wrinkled Yousee, my hairis like starting to getalong like yours. I know the back. You can really tell man Yeah. I don't thinkit's Goonto Goin to stay like like you committed to it, but WELE YOU GOINNA!Are you going to drive down to Georgia and Gettin her cut? No, I don't know it's weird. I don't wantto cut it myself, but E. I think it's fine right now actually kind of like itright now, wher, it's like not a bun yet, but it's like it's cool to likeslick it back and yeah. You feel like a like a ftye like biker Oyes. I worry. Idon't know if I worry, I think, that's probably where I'll end up like I'mtrying both sides of the spectrum. You know I've had short hair in the pastand like now we're going just super long and I might just end up with that.Like slick back, I don't know it's kind of a musician like a classic look. Youknow I want. I notice, like a lot of musicians, do that I don't know what issome kind of style about that, but they just got the slickback hair. It'sthere's something like professional, yet also a little bit dark andmysterious about it. He had there yo go we'll see cool, so Ithink that's about all. We got this week for yeall hope you all enjoyedhearing about revel clash and some of our higher level opinions of it. I'msure that well dig deeper into the metagame as it begins to Devo moreprofoundly and be sure to check us out...

...on social media. We got tag, T POKEMONon Switter smouse with Rias for me like steady rightous for JW, Real JohnWalter on twitter, and we will catch you all next time. Please so yo.

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