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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 13 · 2 years ago

2-13. Two Rebels in a Pod(cast)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Join the boys in an epic excursion through the new horizons of Rebel Clash! They discuss how good (or not) bosses orders will be, and why you should definitely take part in the Limitless Qualifier #3! Top decks of Rebel Clash and much more discussed in this episode of Tag Team!

What is up everybody? Welcome back to tag team and Quarantine, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting to do, oh, even through coronavirus. My name is Riley Hobart and I'm joined by my good friend JW. Crew. All, JW, how you doing today? Doing great, Riley. It's been a good Thursday. What can I say? Had some small group tonight with my church got to catch up with them, got to do some content creation during the day, did a little bit of work on a special project that I have coming up and, yeah, just got to hang out with my wife. So it was a really good thing. Yeah, I think that sounds pretty satisfying. How about you, Riley, what did you get up to today? You know, I've been working really long shifts for the last two weeks. Yeah, so I continued that. My last day of that is tomorrow. So excited to get back to a normal cadence. Anything that you're going to do with your few days off because, like you said, you've been working pretty hard and in the group chat it's been sounded pretty stressful. It definitely has been stressful, but rewarding all the same. Yeah, I think it was satisfying. You know, I don't think I would trade the experience that I've had, even though there were times that, you know, you want to rip your hair out, you want to just roll over and never wake up again, but I think at the end of the day it was good and I on the whole, I don't think it was poorly ran or or anything like that. So sure. I am excited, though, to get like some rest in so this weekend and I get a recovery to the next week to kind of recoup and get back to a normal lifestyle after, you know, hundreds of hours being logged and just a two week times fan. Absolutely that'll be really nice, I think. So what are you gonna do with your time off? Are just like, what are you gonna player to do? Man, you gotta play some poke. Maybe, maybe it's tough to say. I was hoping I could go for some walks and stuff, and it looks like the weather's actually going on a downturn this weekend. So okay. Yeah, it was so nice last weekend. I've been getting really into the pokemon go that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm kind of like a typical boomer, you know, maybe five years behind the well, no, when it came out four years ago. I like three years behind the curve, but it's been really fun. This week has been the Canto Week and they're taking like one week over the next, I don't know what, two months or something, and they're dedicating it to every preaching. Yeah, yeah, every generation. So Canto and then to tomorrow. I think tonight the Jodo region will be nice. So I'm super stoked. I just caught a shiny pine of COE, which is all gold. It looks very cool. That was like one of my one of my first shiny since coming back. I also call like a Shiny Yanma, which is also very nice, as got the blue outline instead of the red. So I don't know, I'm just in I don't know. I'm enjoying the completionist aspect of it. I've been having a really good time defending my gym, which is this church. That's a six minute walk. Yes, I have time that. And Yeah, it's just been a it's just been kind of you know that little they say, you know, go take walks right and go take like a ten minute walk in the middle of the day just to like get up and get out of your chair. And like I've been it just enjoying planks of pokemon go. Well, doing that and then just kind of, you know, chilling at home and like all right, I'll throw it in its incense up and go catch some pokemon. I've at the weeks for generations are going to be good for like catching you back up for all the time you missed as well. Yes, yes, it really will, because right now I have enough candy to evolve all the starters up fully and I've gotten like some very reasonable starters that would be powerful enough to...

...use. And then I have a good friend who has been telling me how to use like the lucky eggs. Yeah, Optimal Times. And so since he's been here, I think I've gone up like a level and a half, which has been pretty impressive. While level and then he well, I'm at thirty. Okay, yes, it's the big milestone. Yeah, yeah, I just hit that today. Awesome, it feels pretty good, man. I feel pretty accomplished. The Big Three hundred. Yeah, Poco go is honestly so fun. I Like I fall out of it in the winters usually. Yeah, but I love just like going doing a community day in the summer. Like, yeah, I totally understand the appeal now because I just did my first community day that I can remember. I'm sure I did a community day in the in the past, but I wasn't really into the game, so I was really just doing it more to, you know, play Kate my friends. Yeah, but I did the Aber Community Day. That was about a week or two ago and that was just Super Fun. You know it, you just get really excited when you catch the shiny one. Yeah, that's the three star or something. You know, it's just super cool and yeah, I had a great time. That's awesome, and that's awesome. Well. Speaking of Pokemon, though, I think we finally hit that milestone pokemon when a new status coming out. I feel like people have got tired of a sort of shield kind of quick that's fair enough. But before we get into revel class stuff, how about just a quick overview of how limless Qui fire two one, yes, slimmerless qualified too, I felt was I'll say. I'll say it was a success, even though I didn't make day too, because I felt like I picked a good deck and, for the most part, played as well as I could given the hands that I got. And I don't want to put it all on like okay, you know, I had been hands, but like there were just I'm games. I remember there was one game where I, you know, my only draw supporter was a research and I drew into four of my you know, and attacking energy right, I drew into like three rainbows and a Aurora and I was playing ATP Spirit Tomb. So like basically half my outs to attacking. I just had a discard on like the second turn of the game and it just, you know, it's just things like that where it's like well, you don't lose off of that, but your chances of winning go down significantly. I had pretty much throughout the day. Went, let's see, against a real a boom since Chin no, Mallie met welder, met another Malie, me tune round five and a fire box. That constituted my first six rounds and I'm sitting at three and three and thinking to myself, you know, when are we going to drop? You know, it's kind of getting about that time. But rip off a couple games against a Charles Arden Braxon deck and a peak ROM. So then I'm five and three and I'm thinking, okay, you know, I went I had at one point in the first qualifier nine and no streak. So you never know. You can always just finish it out. But then ended up taking a hard loss to a Peka beat an ATP and then in the eleventh round I lost to a sin Chino mill, which was really funny because I think he didn't tell me this, but I think his list was just like he didn't have all the cards on his account and he just threw together whatever you could, and the closest deck that he could get to a metadeck was a mill deck and he just he just won the game because he was like, I don't know. It was just bizarre because he did better than any other mill deck at just playing Belowba every single turn, because he played, I think, for Pal pad and like for tag call and for Blowba. So he just like below but with everything. It was just very funny, you know, because his deck was maybe unoptimized in certain ways but just like did the exact right thing against my deck. You know, it was just super funny. A friend of mine from Michigan State and yeah, it was. It was really interesting. Like he played seven fire energy in his mill deck and he played a welder and it was basically it was basically or rang Guru Sin Chino with,...

...you know, any kind of mill type card you could fit in. So it was pretty funny. But ended up going six and five. Felt like I made a good deck choice. Again, the spirit Tom ATP deck was the top two seeds in two of the other pools. So, you know, I take that as a success. You know, there are times where you know you don't do particularly well in the tournament, but you can still learn lessons from it and you can still take things away from it, and thing I took away from it was just that, you know, I made a good medical but it just didn't pan out. Yeah, for sure. And you know, you can play the best dec in the room and not get success. It just happens exactly. I mean that's you see it when you know you have testing groups that they take a list to a regional or an I see or something like that, and you know one person wins the tournament and the other person goes Oh, three drop. You know, it just it depends on the matchups and it depends on, you know, what your opponents are doing. So absolutely, yeah. Well, I'm glad that you could like compartmentalize that and take it into like a positive space, right. Yeah, yeah, sometimes I feel like it's easy get hung up on like not making the day to or what have you, but I think the growth mindset is to say, you know, I did this thing, these things right. Maybe I could have done these things better, but acknowledging that it's not all to lucky either, is it's yeah, exactly, and I've just been having a really fun time with the Stream to. I've been finding that there's a lot of people that are pretty interested in the limitless tournament, and credits to limitless for putting on such an awesome event. But it's just been fun to, you know, hang out with viewers and have that kind of participation in between rounds and and even during rounds to an extent. But that has been really rewarding for me as well. Yeah, for sure, I have noticed that too, like the streaming community really is fostering during these these events. So it's pretty exciting to see if there's still, I guess, bigger and excitement around Pokemon at a time when it's the hardest it's ever been to play in the traditional sense. Yeah, absolutely absolutely see it, from the top streamers on down, that the numbers are just up across the board and that might be something that we can talk about too in a future episode. But it's just been really cool to see just even streamers at the you know, that were at the bottom of the charts. You know, they're getting viewers and that's really, really cool. Yeah, that's awesome. So any comments about like the organizational aspect of it or how that was handled compared to the first like two attempts? Sure this this tournament went pretty well. They really didn't have a hiccup. I would give it a ten out of ten in terms of how it was run. I don't think that it necessarily could have been run much better. They still divided it up into the four pods, which made it so that certain pods could, you know, start a little bit earlier if all their matches finished, and then just kind of give that little bit of wiggle room towards the end of the day. And so that's again really good and yeah, I thought it was really well. We're on tournament. Also very pleased. I'm glad to hear that man so liveless qualified to success. I think we can write that off as being a major success both for limitless and the TAG team. So absolutely, I think now is what everyone's been waiting for four months, and that's for us to start talking about rebel clash. It's come out on TCDO. People are ready to start experimenting, and certainly have been over the last week. JW, I know you have also been trying out some new things and so you can get some of that out on you youtube as all as you stream. What are some of the things that are immediately sticking out to you? Is being topped here? Contenders from the rebel clash set? Absolutely I think there are three decks that come to mind as being the cream of the crop from rebel clash, and that's not to say that by any means that the set has been figured out, but the three that come to mind as being just a tear, you know, worthwhile investments of your time. Our Dragon...

Poult, which is a no brainer. I think that is just the biggest card from that. And then in telly on v Max. I've just been enjoying the heck out of that and I'd love to explore a few new flavors. I'm in telly on. There could be a Greens version that I have seen a little bit on a ladder and have also heard a little bit about that plays Miss Magius. Could be something cool, but I'm currently running it with Frost moth and I think it's a very fine deck that handles both drag a poult and ATP, thereby giving it you know, like immediate yeah, cloud, you have a reasonable footing in the metagame just from that. Exactly exactly you take. You take a near Autolass to any sort of lightning deck that or any deck that even like sniffs a lightning attacker out. You just like you can't beat it. There's a lightning energy in that deck. It's probably well, it's probably no. Yeah, and I don't think that even you know weakness card like is going to be your secret spice to beating. I think you just take the heart out to that kind of stuff. But that's fine. Again, you have a really solid ATP and drag Pul matchup and like, if that is the proposed Meta, then I would be a hundred percent comfortable taking in and telling on deck. And then the third deck, which I think is a little bit of a dark horse but that I have been so surprised with and so pleased with that I want to just put way more testing into it. Because I think the list that I've been seeing are very as well as my list. But are they're just very under defined. And that is the Bolton v zero or a deck so completely bypassing peak a ram or maybe as like a one of attacker, but the focus has shifted from peak a ram on the bolt on and the idea would be to attack three times, you know, with your bolts art attack with three bolt tons right, and and you know, take your prices that way. So I've really been enjoying that deck. I think the benefit of that deck is that it can it can stand tototoe with anything. It has a little bit of a rough ATP matchup just because of the prize trade. Like if they can get the turn one altered creation, that's really hard to catch up, right, because they just have to knock out two of your attackers while you still have to attack three times. And it's not guaranteed that you're getting knockouts every turn, right, but if you can survive those first few turns, really just if you can, if you can get a knockout right, I mean before they alter creation, right, then that's how you win that matchup. And then or if you can stick them with a Marne laid or something. You know there are you can still kind of outpace them just because your energy acceleration is a little bit more consistent than metal saucers, although not by much, but just you know, you're you're able to get the energy in the discard and then accelerated with the zero aura onto your bench and then you're setting up for huge damages knockouts with electric power. But I think it's very solid. I think it's the deck that, while we're moving towards v Max, has having such high HP and healing options such as super scoop up and Malow and Lana, really shifting towards like a to hit metagame. I think bolts on has the opportunity to kind of spin that on its head and just, you know, eradicate all these vmax pokemon. I think it has a pretty decent matchup and pretty decent chance to do that right, and I feel like that's something we consistently see throughout pokemon. Right is when metagames become this like slow two shotting format, there's always that one deck that you know just obliterates those decks by just one shouting them exactly. It'll have its own weaknesses and it becomes sort of like a triangle kind of scenario. It feels exactly exactly cool. So I think the card that people have been most excited about for a while, and some people were skeptical about it, free rebel clash coming out, but I don't think there's much to be said about it now that, at least for the haters, is Dragon Bolt. It was hard...

...to, I think it was hard, pretty revel clash, to like quantify what that one hundred and fifty and fifty spread with like actually translate to the coiner or hundred thirty. Sorry, yeah, what has would translate to. But clearly that's become a staple of the metagame and spread it has consistently been like a good option, but never like something that you build a deck around right, and I think Dragon Pul kind of pulls it off well by mixing like a lot of tankiness with a lot of like additional damage modifiers to keep it going right. So talk about your experience with that deck. What do you like about it? What do you not like about it? What's going on with Drag Pol? Yeah, and again, I mean I think Dragon Pult is super awesome. It does have these choke points and the and they're not very big choke points in their ways to get around them. But all I mean is, like the weaknesses and Dragon Pault come when you can't get to energy attached right or they come when they're just one shot in your dude. You know, those can be very big stressors on you as a dragon ball player, but those are relatively difficult things for many decks to do. Is relatively difficult to one shot a three hundred twenty HP pokemon. It's weakness is dark, which is very good. Right now. There's there's no dark attackers in my mind that or dark decks that kind of would jump out as even like a like a counter pick, you know what I mean. Like even the dark decks don't guarantee wins against Dragon Poult, which is crazy. If the spear too, of is like the only dark attack or that comes to mind, but then it's obviously weak too. It's obviously wait to the speed. Damn. Yeah. So it's just it's such a cool deck, it's such a good deck. And then the other thing is like getting the energy attached, and there are a couple decent ways that you can do that where you know, you could play bead, you could play Malamar. You can also just, you know, manually attached. There's a lot of decks out there that are doing very well that is just manually attaching one per turn and Callin it a day. So I think the deck is well well poised to be a contender. I would just worry about, yeah, attaching and getting one shot, you know, attachments. There's always going to be things like crushing Hammer. There's always going to think, be things like, sure, team Yel grunts even, and a porter to an extent. But you're playing the special energies right, exactly. But I think that the deck has enough to overcome it. Sure, so I guess, like you know, this attack isn't anything insane, right. I mean it's a good attack, but what do you think it's really push the metagame to his state where that's, you know, an acceptable and strong attack to be working off of? Is Your entire game plan? Sure, there is a lot of set up in the former GERACI trash is very easy prize. To Den a also another easy prize. There's a lot of games where they just go, you know, three damage counters on the then a and and too damage counters on Geraci and like that's three prizes next turn if they hit a boss's orders for the Dragon Pul deck, right, because then I can on thirty two the active and then the fifty to bench GERACCI. It's just almost like uncounterable with the strategy, which is kind of cool, right, like if you think about an Intelli on deck and you know mew would be a card that would really hinder it's second attack, right, because you don't get the Snipe on the bench. But you flip, kind of flip that with the Dragon Pul where the damage counters are placed, and all of a sudden there's really no blockable way to place those days. I mean you have things like metal goggles. You know sular. I guess you know Sky Pillar. Sure, I mean those are things, right. There are some counters, but not really any easily techt counters that do much in other matchups. So it's it's again it's...

...kind of uncountable. It has a great weakness, a ton of health and there's a lot of different ways to build it. So going more towards that, like the waste of build drag pult that I've seen have varied from putting everything in it to putting no text into it, and I think there's fine balance that we can achieve somewhere in the middle. I have been really enjoying scoop upnet with gear attina and I know a lot of people have been playing Zigzagoon, but the Guarantina to me seems like the optimal play because you can scoop it up and it gives you that additional damage counter. So let's say, like hypothetically, you're playing Zigzagoon like three times in a game. You know you can double up that whole damage if you play the GUARANTINA and are able to get into the discard, obviously, but since you're already playing mysterious treasure, are already playing quick ball, I think the Guiarantina might give you a little bit more versatility in terms of piling damage counters on your opponents bench and should be something that I think people should look towards instead of the Zigzagoon. Sure, Malamar in the deck I haven't been loving personally, but I would understand why people play it. I mean it makes sense. Right again, you you really only need, like I'll one Malamar up because you just need to get ahead, usually one time per game. And that's only assuming that your opponent is playing something hyper aggressive that is going to be able to start two shotting, you know, turn two or three, which again isn't always the case with current decks. And so, you know, you can play with Malamar. I don't personally love it. I do think that the deck needs some way to kind of come back from getting to energy discarded or picked up to the hand or something like that. So the play that I've been liking is just playing a bead and just saying that's my out, but not kind of not to clunk up the deck with too many, you know, Malamar Lines, sure, because I often find like it's more of a liability in the mirror, which is a funny thing too. So the mirror is really awkward because you're trying not to play all your support pokemon down right, because if they can knock out at the DA A and a Graci, then they only need to kill one dragon pult, you know, or or anything like that. So it's just very it's kind of I don't know, it's changing the way that I think decks that you would I don't know. It's just an interesting way to build that deck. I think there's Bliss Cephalon that I've been enjoying in that deck, the little bliss flon right, because if they knock out your dragon poults, then they and that's the first thing that they knock out, then they go down of three prizes and then you can bring up your bliss fhalon and just like wipe their board a lot of the times, and that cool thing that you can do it. There's just a lot of different angles and a lot of different I guess, not not theology, just ways of thinking about it. You know, if the Church of Dragon Bulls, that's notes. I guess theologies is possibly a way to describe that. Yeah, that says the devout following right, right. So it's very cool. I'm just very excited because it is a deck that has very clear, very clear potential as obviously very, very good, and so you know there's going to be somebody that is going to come out with, you know, the definitive list that does, you know, the best at the next limitless qualifier and I'm just excited to see what that is because I think that first person that does well with the deck is going to just define the deck for the rest of the metagame. Well, I mean I shouldn't say that, not for the rest of the metagames. I'm going to set the tone, though. They're going to set the precedent and everyone else is just going to copy them for a long time. Yeah, I feel like that's for sure true. That's how I feel like it always goes right,...

...even if it's not the perfectly optimal list. That kind of forms the opinion about how the list should be, sure, and that's what it wants around. So yeah, I'm definitely excited to see not only dragon bull but what kind of lists come out of the limitless qualifier and how that'll shape the metagame moving forward. So you talked a little bit about how Dragon Pol I don't know if you wanted to say this exactly, but it's kind of warping the way that you have to play your decks because you you're right. You know you have all these liabilities that are only getting amplified by the fact that Dragon Pola can take advantage of multiple pokemon at once. So do you think there's going to be a deck building response to that? Do we have to start cutting down onto these support pokemon? Do we have to be just more cognizitive of our play. Is Scoop upnet just going to become a staple so you can remove some of these liabilities from your board? What do you think the situation there? Well, it's super interesting because the metagame is so early. Right, the metagame is so early. We haven't had a tournament yet and even, like you know, I've run a discord tournament. Like you know, there's not going to be like the widespread amount of decks that we would need to actually form that good opinion. So we're stuck with, you know, ladder play and just whatever content creators are liking at the time. And so, yes, the biggest answer to drag a poult that I've found with, you know, my Intelli on deck specifically, that I think extends to many other decks, is just to find some way of consistent healing. I think Malowan law is very good, but the best healing that we have right now is super scoop up and you know, for at least four attackers. You know, you're thinking of attackers as like tag teams or Pokemon v or emax's right, right. So that is the best form of healing because it's the most efficient and you know you're going to need, generally speaking, to use your supporter to draw cards because you're trying to set up these big, you know, evolutions and that need, you know, certain energy requirements. So Super Scoop up is the best card, you know. And then to I guess a lesser extent, you have, you know, the fishing net right to pick up your basic non x, are, non gx, Non v whatever, your Geraci's in the like. Right, but the issue with that it's that you have Mr Mime with the ability, you know, block up or SCOOPA block. Yeah, it's so that prevents things like scoop up net and things like super scoop up. And so have we been seeing that be played in lists? I mean, I think a lot of people are considering it, but again, we just don't have a metagame. So it's like super scoop up is clearly very, very good in a two shot Meta, but it's completely negated by a card like Mr Mine. Right, yeah, taking four cards out of your deck and then having one card get rid of them. It's the real feels bad. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So there are a lot of different supporter out for healing. I think probably the best is going to be Malowin Laana, but you also have launa, you also have Guardinia if you're playing a deck that can fit it. But even those, like I kind of I'm shying away from them because in a lot of these decks, particularly in the vmax decks, you need to fish out an evolution, you need to fish out that energy because they have, you know, relatively higher attack costs. I mean you say like okay, well, it's not that bad with a with a card like dragon pulp, but it's I mean it's still to energy on an evolution. Yeah, it's too attached sand and evolution like, yeah, to attach with cent an evolution exactly, as opposed to a deck like peak ram, which has both coke and a thunder mountain, you know. So just kind of paralleling...

...those. It's just a little bit more to set up, and so I'm finding that you need your your supporter to go towards draw for the term, so you can't often afford to heal. That's just what makes super scoop up better in my mind. Right. Yeah, it's always interesting, I feel like when Super Scoop up is a card in the metagame, not only because of cards like scoop up block. But just like there's so much going on with super scoop as a factor. The yeah, there is, there is. And then super scoop up is good because it allows you to be a little bit more liberal with your Dedenne's, you know, because it's an early and you say, okay, you know what, I got four super scoop ups and the only way I lose this game is like if this dedanne sticks on the on the field. Yeah, and and you know, so you're using your scoop ups to get that thing out. And Yeah, it's just it's interesting. There again, I think kind of the dark horse, I guess that just was not really a card in the last format, except for maybe in certain ATP list, but that should be a major player in this format is the scoop up. Again. We talked about the ridiculous health of the vmax has there relatively little amount of one shotting. You know, we thought about Zacian as being this insane one shot machine last format. It's definitely not the case now. That's definitely the case now, and so the two shot Meta is in full force. I think we'll see that in the next limbit less qualifier and super scoop up again should be that card. That is, either everyone plays it or the decks that they do well are able to counter it with Mr Mime. Yeah, very interesting. So I guess just you don't have to go too much into this, but do you think it'll be better to play a Mr Mime and say, you know, screw the scoop ups, or would you rather lean on to the side of you know, people won't play Mr Mime and I'm going to consider super scoop up as an option. Um, I think the scoop ups are still good because you know, if you there's not really good pokemon recovery. So That's from myth to the Mr Mim has to come down at the right time to so like if it comes down too early, then that gives you an opportunity to gust it up and knock it out and then very likely. I mean in certain decks, obviously you play ordinary rod in certain decks you play brocks grit, I suppose. But like the majority of decks are not putting, you know, are not having ways to put Mr Mime back into the deck and so they drop the wrong time. Then you just gust it up and knock it out and play kind of goes on as normal. Obviously it's a little wonky because you have to use your gusting effects to get them Mr Mime, and then you're attacking into a one prizer, but I think it's it's very reasonable. I would say that super scoop up is just so good that I would rather play it than be worried about Mr Mime. But you just have to kind of know how to play against opponent that plays a Mr Mind for sure, and I definitely agree that if it's going to be the difference between you avoiding knockouts in the future, it's worthwhile to gust that mind because even though you waste a turn killing it in some cases you save yourself potentially many turns in the long run. Well, and you may write and you may even yeah, and that may even even out, probably, and then some right yeah with the scoop ups. So it's just it's an interesting thing that we haven't seen really play itself out yet, but should be very kind of, very kind of defining, I think, of this format. Well, you know, does your opponent play Mr Mime? Do you play scoop up? You know, and that kind of interaction. So I think this transitions pretty well into the next thing I wanted to talk about. You mentioned gusting the Mr Mime, and we cannot talk about rebel clash without talking about boss's orders. Lysander is back and better than ever. Maybe I mean time we've been missing out on a gusting effect. It feels like we've had a gusting effect...

...for years in the format and then had this weird little gap where there's nothing besides these item cards and we're finally back to having a supporter. How does how's that feeling for you? I am not the biggest fan, but obviously it's a little bit more more exciting to me than the healing options that we have right like if we're saying, if I'm saying that, okay, soup scoop up is better than Malow and Laana because you need to use your supporter for turn to draw. I mean, I still think that automatic gust is just very, very strong. However, I don't know that it belongs in every single deck and that I might this might be a controversial opinion, but it is definitely biased by the Italian that I've been playing, where I just haven't been finding that I need the gust. Sure of boss's orders that I couldn't just get from you know, a catcher and I think in a lot of time, in a lot of cases, you only really need like the one gust per game to win, especially, and like this is looking specifically through the Lens of Bolton in Telly on and drag a Pul bolt on. You're trying to one shot the active. You know, you do want a gust right. There are times so you would play, you know, at least a few gusting effects, but like, for the by and large, your one shotting the active. You know, you're not trying to pick off things on the bench. In tellion you have a snipe attack. That's the best snipe attack that we've seen in a long time. And then with Dragon Polt you also have a snipe attack. So like you're putting a lot of pressure on the bench and you could potentially bring those things up to very high, you know, very high amounts of damage and then knock him out. And then we have kind of a pseudo gust with fione. That's like an automatic but searchable, and so I think that takes care of a lot of things right, if you're trying to save as many damage counters as possible. That's a big thing with snipe decks, sure, is trying to maximize the amount of damage that you're putting on your opponent's field right, because if you have an opponent's active pokemon that has ten damage ten health left, you're not going to want to swing into it with the you know, main attacks like full damage. You want to try to bring it to the bench and try to snipe it right so that a new pokemon can take most of the damage while that bench pokemon can take the auxiliary snipe effect. Yep. And so I think you really only need like the one gust per game that's not on a feon. You know, you need one like automatic gust in a lot of cases maybe two. But gotta say cards like Pokemon Catcher, I don't think they're going to go away so quickly. Like I don't think boss's boss's orders very good, very good card. Like don't don't twist my words. It's Ay JW. Think spots's order suck. No, I'll be the click bait title for this one, for sure. Absolutely, absolutely click bait title, for sure. That's that's what we're going for here, is Click Bait. But I just don't think you need to. You need to instead of saying, Oh, yes, boss's orders as an automatic inclusion, you need to just stop and think and say, well, what do I need? You know, what do I actually need? Like how many times are my act really gusting? And then, like we were talking about these vmax Pokemon, they need a little bit more, I would say. Generally. Then the tag teams needed, and so you are generally going to have to use your supporter to draw. Right. So, with that in mind, I think that custom catchers are probably, you know, are fine, and I also think that pokemon catchers are fine. Yeah, and actually that was the point I was going to go back to when you first brought up the problem with VMAC. Not really problem, but if a sub effect of v Max is right, is that there's stuff that you need to be doing a lot of the turns. Yeah, I think des like ATP you know, there's a little more passive. Don't necessarily need to do a lot of drawing in the late game. But right dext like v Max is, you know,...

...they consistently need to be finding pieces over and over again to make their whole deck work. That's kind of just how it is. When you play evolution deck in the first place. And so the side effect of that is if you play a draw supporter, it doesn't matter how many bosses orders he draw into after that you cannot guss that turn exactly. And so cards like Pokemon catcher and custom Catcher, especially if you don't need to gust very often, are are great, you know, right, right, and that's that's the thing too, is like a lot of the time you're trying to get through like a vmax or whatever they have active or their ATP right, and then you're looking to potentially knock out one of their auxiliary attackers and then pick off something thing to end the game. So boss's orders again, good card, but just you have to really think about what you wanted to do and if pokemon catcher or custom catcher could do that same thing but a little bit better. Right, yeah, and I think that's that's something, generally speaking, is hard to get the right balance of. Right. It's a asking to take just experimentation and getting a feel for the engines of these decks, and I don't know if the metagame is truly in the place at where we can say objectively what those counts might look like. But I think you're on the right track right where it's going. It's not going to be just a blowout or boss's orders is just the only way that you guessed anymore from just the way the metagame is working is different than it was when lysander was a card. Exactly. Can't really just sit and lysander most terms, like you could with back in the day. Exactly, exactly cool. Yeah, I think that was a really good point. So the only other thing, I think specifically I wanted to hit on was the effect of eldags and I think elder goths is interesting because it almost feels like it piggy backs off the power of boss's orders to me, right, because it's really only as good as the text of orders, in my opinion. Right. Yes, yes, and there are like I lost to a deck the other day. We're talking about all this digging that you do with the vmax decks. I lost to a deck the other day that eldgost for the below Ben Bryson man just got rid of my last three cards. That that's another thing, though, while I bring this up, below B and Bryson man is very, very cool right now because you can discard your own bench. HMM, and so as like another all judo, as another pseudo healing option, you do have below Bun Bryson man. I just want to bring that up make that known to our listeners that that is something that also can be considered. But yes, hundred percent correct on your assessment of Elder Goss is only as good as its text supporters. So, like, if you're only playing a deck, that's like, you know, you got your for research in your for Marni probably not looking to play an elder Goss because I should, you know, be able to, you know, with Geraci's or Dedenny's or whatever. You should be able to have those supporters whenever you need them. But if you're playing boss's orders, if you're playing below bum Bryson man, if you're playing malow and Lana, those are kind of the three right now that jump out to me as being the text supporters that you would want to play Elda Goss to. Just immediately return it's it's a cool card. I like it. I haven't really been finding uses in my in my versions of the list, and that's not to say that it's bad. I just haven't conceptually been able to find the best uses for it because, again, like in the vmax decks, it's not really that good to have to prize pokemon down on your bench. Yeah, because that's just ane one more easy target, right, they knock out a Graci, they knock out the den a or El de Goss and then they not going to be Max, you know. So it's just kind of shortening the game a little bit, right. And then I just haven't found in certain other decks that you end up having the bench space at the an ATP, for instance, you know you're going to have your two attackers, going to have your ATP, you're probably going to have as a shan.

If you're playing custom catches, you're likely going to have and our Ang Guru, and then that last slot like is going to go towards your consistency Pokemon, like the den a or something like that. Or if you needed to play, you know, feon or if you needed to play another dross, you down for some reason. You know. So the the bench space is so valuable right now for many different reasons that eldgost to me just hasn't been a card that's that's been an auto include. Again, you have to really think about how the prize trade is going to go against the matchups that you're expected the face and whether or not want fits into that plan. I think there's some other factors to that. I don't think you necessarily neglected to Mension, but just that are worth thinking about. Yeah, and I think one of them is that the tech supporter lineup that we have, honestly, isn't one of the best we've ever seen. Sure, like this isn't an Arrow where we have, you know, a so Rolla and Goothma and all this. You know, probably those are maybe the two biggest offenders. Were like, Yep, those are insanely powerful cards that obviously you'd want to recycle. It's like, you know, Marnie's no Kake card, like these healing cards are okay, but it's not like completely the game breaking away that Ace Rolla can be. Yeah, I think he's Rolla is probably one of the best examples of like a tech supporter that can completely flip the game in a second. Dumb and you know, I don't think we have that same level of of raw power in a tech supporter right now. That's worth recycling. Obviously boss's orders is good, but you could just play another bross's orders seven, elda Goth. I think all the God shines the best when there's right multiple options that you can pull from, because otherwise you might just play a copy. Right exactly. And that's the thing too, is like, you know it getting back to the original point that I was talking about Elda Goss and just kind of expanding on that. Like you're playing your for if you play your for research and your for Marty and then you play to boss's orders and you play an eldagss like it really at that point doesn't really matter, like just play the third boss's orders and don't give yourself the possibility to start such a bad, you know, starter ors to play it down of the late game. Like just play that third cop right. I think eldags will probably eventually find it's niche, even if it's not at all star right now. Not to say it's not good right now. It's obviously a good card. Like that's a good effect, you know, no matter how it'll be play eventually. I don't know that. I like, I can't with certainty say that it'll see play now, but I mean it should. It's just good. It's just good and I think that, you know, there is merit as well to playing it over a copy of things, because it is, you know, a searchable quick ball option right to these supporters. I think the decks that probably take advantage of that the best are going to be like these welder decks that are gonna, you know, play welders often as they can write. Sure, sure, and so's attery. That's a great example where, like you want a fifth copy of something, but if you really need a fifth copy of like a you know, professor's research. I'm just wondering, like where your game plan led here. THAT TO TA exactly? You bring up a good point there with the wilder decks, like of course, well, there is always wanted more welders. That's why we were seeing, you know, pal pads get put into decks, right. But yes, you're a hundred percent riot. Like, if your deck is not based around welder or doesn't have a ton of tech supporters, then Elda Gos just doesn't make a ton of sense. Yeah, yeah, I agree completely. So that's kind of just our general advice to you. I think that applies to a more cards than elda goths. It's more of like a widespread thing. Right, like you have to, I think, if to think of the marginal value of every card in your deck. In addition, just like the upfront value, right, and so aldacs is a card that has a lot of upfront value, like grab a vs seekers. Just a good card. It always has been. But the marginal value of including an elder Goss and putting it on your bench and doing all this stuff is not necessarily worth the cost that it, you know, inherently has. So right, and it. I mean, I'd say the same exact thing about me two,...

...because that is seeing some play. You know, me two is a little bit worse than all the Goss but a little bit better in that it only gives a one prize, but you're putting it back on the top of your deck and then you know you could draw through it with like acrobike. You draw that card with our Wrang Guru or something like that, and like same idea applies. I think a lot of people play mew two in lists where they have the scoop of that because it's just fun. You know, it's a fun things fun, so let's just play scoop on that with every single possibility. And again, just just think about what you actually want. Again, if your deck is centered around the three pillar, supporters of research, Marni and boss's orders, then I would shy away from you to or El the Goss just because you can just play a third copy or fourth copy of boss's orders. I. A fourth copy of boss's orders like makes a lot of sense too, in my opinion. Right now. Over it, like if you're playing three bosses, or I don't know that any deck is doing this, but like if you're playing three boss's orders and them you two or something like that, just play the fourth boss's orders. You know, I mean, not real reason not to ensure yeah, I think I agree with you. For the most part. They're so I think those are the main points I wanted to hold on with. Rebel clash is like some of the higher level like deck building, things, like what is actually fundamentally changing about the game, and I think we did a good job talking about some of that stuff. What else is sticking out to you about this says there anything that we did cover that you really want to speak your mind about? Well, I think it's really fun because it's fresh. I hope that it will remain fun and I have I have a, you know, reasonable hope that it will. But you are seeing that the influence of the game developers is very apparent in that they want to to hit Kao Meta and they only want and they can also want like a rock, paper scissors Meta where, like we were saying earlier, you know, and Telli on just loses the lightning and like lightning decks, lose two philanx and you know, and then the whole circle of weakness just kind of continues. Yeah, seeing that just in full force. That's kind of what the game designers intended when they got rid of fairy typing, and I just I hope that we don't ever come to regretted either. Thing that I'm really missing is like the mimic use of the world, the kind of revenge attackers that can be slotted into any deck to try to get those one shot on like a revenge, and so maybe that I'll come back in the future. I'm not too hopeful, but you know, that's kind of the one thing that I'm missing from this format. It's just that that auxiliary like back up, like tech for certain matchups. I don't know that there's a ton of teching individual pokemon for matchups. You're more kind of constructing the deck to handle certain matchups. Yeah, if that makes sense, like you're not not adding that one, you know, as in the whole pokemon. That like, okay, if this exact, you know plan happens, then I can just win this matchup. It's more kind of, you know, okay, Oh, I know that they're playing a Mr Mime in their deck and I know that I need to heal a few times, so I'm going to add more copies of you know, Malown Lawa like. That's my example, where your whole deck has to be kind of constructed around what they're doing. I guess, like do you think that is inherently worse? I mean, I think almost that it forces you to be more, I guess, active in your decisionmaking, whereas one card text or, you know, less costly choice. So it's not as like harmful, if even if it's not as useful of a decision. I mean it's something again that I'll have to I just have to give the format it's due and see. It's just kind of the initial thought. Okay, we're losing all these kind of there or there's no real yeah, surprise, you know,...

...attacker like that in this format that can one shot v Maxis, and so it's just kind of making me reconsider like how to play the game, and so I guess that in that and of itself is good and I'm just lamenting the fact that we're that were missing something like that. But maybe, like you said, it's not going to be a problem in the end. Yeah, I I don't necessarily think it's a problem or not. I just think there's a positive element that could be applied to it, whether or not that pans out in like a positive metagame way. Trips more about like I think there is a lot of value in forcing you to be active in your decisionmaking. There's, I think, a really good example of this is playing Guarantina in decks back when Granningja break was a thing. Sure, it was basically a mind list inclusion. You'd cut one silly card, include a Guarotina and your matchup now, granted Granninga could still be a lot of decks that played it, but like, yeah, your matchup was massively improved for almost no cost. There wasn't any like actual deck building, decisionmaking that's going on there. It's just like do I plan to see a Granina? All right, yeah, right, right. It's like I'm glad that Pokemon has searched away from that kind of Yah hountering, at which I think it actually was doing it for quite a long time. So well, yeah, and I mean you look at cards like wabefit, because you're as you're bringing that to mind, you know that blocks all the prisms, you know, and that's just like a very good countered anything that runs victimi or cocoa specifically, I would say. And so, yeah, we don't just we just really don't have that. Yeah, right, so that's if that's good or bad or doesn't matter or what. But you know, it'll be interesting to see for sure. So I think now is a good time to start opening up to the chat. I'd be really interested to hear what you all are experimenting with, what kind of things you're liking and what you want to hear from us. So feel free to leave your comments and then chat. We will get to try and get to like three to five of those. Surefore, we wrap up for today. And so, JW, my only other question to you is what is your favorite rogue strategy that's come out of reble clash. My favorite rogue strategy. Um, I would give like an honorable mention to the COMPARAGA like tanky. Yeah, because that has been super fun to if if the deck you're playing is slow enough, then it's just super fun to tank like sixty damage every single in the play, all the healing. It's just not going to work because too many decks do too much damage or just like you know, spread or whatever it is. They one shot or spread or anything like that and they just mess with your strategy. But if you're playing against a slow enough deck, that's been Super Fun. The other thing that I've really liking the best meme deck is just an update on an old meme deck. That that is the baby trio deck, running scoop up nets, suspired Shaman's and expanded. Is Unreal. It's away. Saw Your video on that today. Yeah, did you like it? It was super and that was that was like one game, but we had like three games, I think, just like that one, and it was funny. Yeah, best one. Yeah, it was actually like a concept that we were trying to formulate, not necessarily and me, but, like I was talking to some other how players about an idea like this before scoop up that was even announced, just like trying to plow through the deck and get like turned to baby attack. Yeah, and so it's funny to like see that realized. Right exactly. It's it's super us I mean that's the most fun thing. I would say other cards that I really like that maybe aren't the highest her competitive, but again, false somewhere on this like circle of weaknesses is the failing stick that take is really, really cool and kind of it like auto wins anything that doesn't do a certain you know, it has like that certain threshold. Yeah, right, if they can't ever take out the Phalanx v's, then it's almost impossible to win. So I've really just been liking that archetype...

...every time I've played against it. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool for sure. It's fair emission of like the Simian archetypes that old, but now at this with additional V to spice it up a little bit. So yeah, and the damage production is ridiculous. Yeah, it's super solvable. It's very, very cool. I mean it has his weaknesses and like placement of damn counters and things like that it has a place, you know, in a lot of these things. Like real boom vmax has a place in the metagame. I don't know if it's a, you know, very viable place at the moment, but like it's very cool and I've even been seeing some welder mewtwo decks doing pretty well, and so that's all very interesting. So a lot of different ways you can go at this format. I think awesome. So jolly fly man and chat to ask. Do you think scoop upnet will eventually get a band and expanded when tournaments restart? Seems likely. Yeah, I got to agree. I think that was a card that as soon as that card was written, yeah, and presented, it still like the steering committee of Pokemon. They have to be like, okay, this is fine, but if we're not going to write x on this, like right, right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I think I think it's like clearly meant for this current format and not for past formats ran, you know, and that's just gonna be what it is. So we get to enjoy our time with it while at last, and then I think it probably will be banned. I don't know when that'll matter. Probably, you know, maybe not for a while, who knows? But yeah, probably card that's going to get banned. Yeah, and I think one thing that's interesting that I think scoop up neet kind of signifies is pokemon graduating. I guess from XS Sass they're not like inherently going to be included in cards moving forward. So, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean anything for like expandity rotated or what have you, but it's interesting to see that. You know, now x's are effectively in the past for Pokemon, whereas they were still kind of inherited into the GX era. Sure, absolutely, absolutely definitely does feel very fresh with the V's and the v Max has, you know, just I mean thinking about the concept where you have a, you know, any x that evolves into an ex or gx that evolves into a gx. Maybe we didn't really have that before. Now we do in the form of v You know, to prize pokemon involving into three price pokemon. That's very, very cool, very fresh. And Yeah, I mean the NE X is. Yeah, see you later, see you later your hand by time. Now it's time for vast rise. Yeah, and who knows that they come up with next. So true jolly fly and also says that he's been trying babyfule with dragon air. Have you tried anything like that yet? Um No, I haven't. I haven't yet. I mean dragon there was an archetype in the past that it's dark cry Yep with dark ry. That was reasonably good. I don't even remember it. I thought that that was so bad. You thought that that goes so but I like I remember being like the kind of deck. It's kind of like whims a cot from this last format where it's like people can do well with it and maybe get top eight, but it doesn't ever really go past that and like people are just playing it to have fun. Yeah, it was fun. It was very fun. That was like a that's the kind of that guy like on tcg Oh, you know, or you you dragons wish it just like whatever happens after that is not in your hands anymore. Exactly exactly. We have something here earlier in the chat talking about will. Yes, there are a lot of cards that are flipping super scoop up, poke my catcher are the ones that come to mind immediately, and so could will see some play. I don't think it's out of the question. Again, the super scoop up is so good that it could, like on its own, like without the POKEMON Catcher, kind...

...of justify the inclusion of will. Again. This too, hit Meta is is so is going to be so prevalent that I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody come up with a will package, you see, with scoop up in their deck. I guess like I could see it. But to me I kind of go back to the point you made earlier, and I think this applies even more with super scoop ups, for like you have to draw into the scoop ups and the will ahead of times. It's like made that even work, and I just I don't foresee that being a consistent possibility, and maybe I'm wrong on that. I've I would be happy to wrong about that, because I think text supporters are have been a little choked out recently. I just like it's tough. It's tough because you have to draw the flip card and the will and decks that already need to be trying a lot of cards right. So right it's I don't know, I'm not a huge fan of will right now, but if someone manages to make will work, I would be ecstatic. You know, that's that card is awesome. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it could be like will is a supporter that we didn't really talk about with Elda Goss, right, because like play Elda Goss to recycle the will and then you could super scoop of y'all the gods guaranteed, and that's what I'm saying. It's broken, limited compos real again, more of it, but uh Huh, uh Huh. I mean I would definitely have respect for my opponent if they did that. That sounds like a really fun like way to just lose the game, right, like a good losing or like you're on tcg oh, you're just flexing kind of it definitely hasn't niche there, oh, for sure, for sure. So, Riley, are you going to play in the limitless qualified number three? I'm thinking about it. Yeah, obviously things have been really busy for me, so I haven't been able to build up my tcg Oh because I literally haven't been on this computer, okay, in two weeks. Yeah, but I'm excited to really get my hands in this format. I was kind of, I don't want to say disillusion but I was just kind of done with sword and shield format. So if I think, if there's something that excites me enough to like get me going, I would love to play in a tournament. Right. Well, we should COLLAB, right. Yeah, you've been rearing Nicolab, for sure, I have been reared. You want to take advantage of this gigantic, gigantic brain, and I don't blame you. That's that's true. Very handsome brain as well. Yeah, no, kid, very wrinkled. You see, my hair is like starting to get along like yours. I know the bad like you can really tell. Man. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna going to stay like you like you've committed to it, but you're gonna. Are you going to drive down to Georgia and get a haircut? No, I don't know. It's weird. I don't want to cut it myself, but I think it's fine right now. Actually kind of like it right now. or It's like not a bun yet, but it's like it's cool to like slick it back and, yeah, you feel like a like a s like biker. Oh, yes, yes, I worry. I don't know if I worry. I think that's probably where I'll end up, like I'm trying both sides of the spectrum. You know, I've had short hair in the past and like now we're going just super long. I might just end up with that like slick back. I don't know. It's kind of a musician cut. It like a classic look, you know I want. I noticed like a lot of musicians do that. I don't know what is some kind of style about that, but they just got the slick back here. It's there's something like professional yet also a little bit dark and mysterious about it. There you go. We'll see cool. So I think that's about all we got this week for y'all. Hope you all enjoyed hearing about rebel clash and some of our higher level opinions of it. I'm sure that will dig deeper into the metagame as it begins to develop more profoundly, and be sure to check us out on social media. We...

...got tag team pokemon on twitter. Smiles with riles for me it's like daddy right, just for JW Real, John Walter, on twitter, and we will catch you all next time piece. So yeah,.

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