Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 16 · 2 years ago

2-16. The Final Qualifier


The boys are here, and so is the final Limitless Series qualifier! Pikarom remains a top contender, but what do JW and Riley think about the meta at large? Only one way to find out.

What's up everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON Trading Card Games Premiere podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert. I'm joined by my good, good friend JW creewall. JW, how you doing this week, Robley, I'm doing great. How are you? I'm doing real swell. Man. I was just telling you earlier I ended up taking one of those accidental naps on the couch and I woke up about an hour ago and when I looked at my phone I thought it was like thirty in the morning. And if you've ever I'm sure you had that moment right. I'm sure everyone listening as to where they wake up from a nap and they think it's the next day. But it's not that moment of this pure panics. That's it. I was there for a little bit. Yeah, that's hilarious. My wife, I mean an actually had kind of a similar thing today. I was walking upstairs, I was working on the computer. She's like, okay, I'm just going to go to bed for like ten minutes, twenty minutes or whatever. I walk up and she's like Fuh, she works, what time is? It was because she had a lesson to teach in my three minutes. And Yeah, I think you guys probably are the kinder spirits of the the sweep today, because she had what's not like? It's a very similar situation. Yeah, it turns out after a long day work, just like taking the taking the blanket to the couch is just a recipe for do yep, Yep, and it was kind of funny, though. I felt like my day you had too much time in it. Today, I mean, I was doing so many different things, like I kept busy, but it's like I transition to all these different things. I'm writing something, I am doing a project for my nephew where we're building a bike. So, well, we're not building it, but we have it. So it's a wooden bike and we're standing it down, Gosh, and then we're going to repaint it and get all the screws and stuff all shiny like and then just I don't know. I was working on different thing, on a coaching session today. I was doing a little bit of testing, I was doing some reed stuff, practicing, and so I was just like doing a lot and cooking and yeah, it was just a lot of things and they all kind of I know, I just felt like I had a lot of time today. For some reason, I really like those kind of days where you like, I don't know, you get a chance to like do a lot of different things. You're always kind of moving. Those are the days I like at work. There's the days I like him, like my own time. It just feels like you're getting a lot that you know. Yeah, and I was. I was awesome. You have to show off that bike when it's finished. I'm curious. So end up looking like it's going to be fresh. We went to pick out the paint tonight at lows and we got a nice, you know, cool mint. I think it's called the mermaids whisper. Oh, wow, something like this. I can't remember exactly. My wife is yelling at me what the name was, but I can't hear her. So mermaids whisper, that's a pretty good name for a color. That's right, it's pretty good. It's a nice little color. We were deciding between that and refresh, but refresh was a little too harsh, and so the mermaids whisper was like fanciful without being childlike. Sure, fansful, but some dud. Yeah, but sophisticated. Yeah, very nice, very nice. That's how I know I'm really old. Is Like I can talk about colors. We went to the paint section. Yeah, that lows, and I had very strong opinions about one hue of mint versus the other. Yeah, once the once the colors section of the home depot in the lows stops being just a place where you look at s watches for fun and you have actual opinions on them, is probably when you graduated to being an adult. Made me feel something. Yeah, and he feels some kind of way. That's right. Cool. Well, you know, I think we we can't ignore this. Upcoming weekend is the limitless qualifier number for the last one before their actual, you know, tournament series proper. So it is going to be a really exciting time, if the second one in the rebel clash on format, and you know, I think a lot of people are excited to see how the Meta has been taken from the infancy stages it was in the first limits qualifier in this format and where it'll evolve coming into this next one. Sure. So I think we just have to start from the top, right, like the very first contender that we think of when we think of this format has to be Peek Rom. You know, it went from nobody really talking about it beside some light mentions, into the deck defining this format, and I don't think it's truly changed in that regard. I think it's still incredibly strong, incredibly fast. It just puts a lot of pressure on really quickly and does exactly what peak ram is always fantasized about doing. So,...

JW, let's start with that. What are your thoughts on peak rom heading into this event? Do you like it? Do you think that it's going to be too heavily represented and therefore countered if they're something that sort of con to playing it? What it what is the current state? Well, and that's the thing is like, yes, I do agree that it will have a target on its back. You know, if we look at the amount of flanks decks that were in quarter one or qualifier three as opposed to qualify for like, I definitely think there will be an increase in that kind of direct counter to peak rom, like just just going off of that very basic stat but additionally, I think you will see more decks just trying to accommodate for Peek Rom in some way, even like a softer soft counter that they maybe didn't play otherwise, something like just stadiums that are good interactions with peak rom. I'm thinking of chaotic swell power plant and and shrine of punishment, all kind of having this yeah, the whole counterplay with what Peak Rama is trying to do all in their own respect good against what peakram was trying to do, and so, you know, you'll see probably some of that. Things like Wab Affett might make their way into some decks as a soft counter to peak ram. And so I think just the way lists are built, are going to try to include a few more little tricks that just make it that much harder for peak rum to overcome. But the problem with that is that they don't always just beat the matchup, which again is a testament to peak around strength. It really just feels like the deck that has, you know that is like a direct counter is the only thing that can really be peak ram. And we look at things like obstacle like that doesn't really even be peak ram, despite peak rom being an all basic deck. Yeah, obstacle and having way more tricks up its sleeve. I mean, it really is the kinds of decks that are going to consistently beat peak gram are the ones that are just all in to beat it and everything else has, you know, a pretty even matchup against it. Yeah, I I think I agree. And it's funny because when we talk about peak arom now, it just feels a lot like the way we talked about atps Osh in last fore yeah, where you used to vote so much to being able to consistently beat it. Yet it almost doesn't feel worth it. That being said, I think there are things that you can do to take a couple percentage points in the right direction. I think mew from a broken bonds will probably be played in higher quantities. I think stuff that you mentioned like Wabba fette and the the shrines and the chaotic wells, and probably even more so power plant, will continue to see play. Power plants, I think, is taking a little bit of a hit just because the way peaker on decks are constructed is more resilient to power plant than they used to be, namely, I'm thinking of the fact that they play a lot more hard draw as a a lot of the post relying on waulkner right, makes you recredibly susceptible to power plant right. So I think we're on the same page. They're. What I'm interested in is what those counters might look like. You mentioned, you know, flanx being a deck. I don't think failings is something that really conceive much large scale success because it, I think it's struggles a lot in the dragon put matchup, and I doubt you disagree on that one. Are there other sort of decks that might hard counter peak rom or have just a generally favorable matchup against it? Outside of that? Some might say Bli Cephalon. I wouldn't necessarily agree on that. I mean I think it's pretty again, it just kind of is coming down to whether or not blow CEF wants. That's up peaker. I'm even then can do some funky tricks, and so nothing that I really see as being like a viable contender has some very pause. I mean you could say eighty pezation. I think that it's still right up there. But now that peak ram has that very like ultra consistent like turn to and a very an even more real chance that the turn one full blitz, it just gets harder and harder for deck like atpzation to play against the peaker on deck. And so I think that you have. Yeah, I'm again, I'm trying to like brass me at straws figure out exactly what can be peak rom. Again, we were talking about these kind of soft counters that will probably make its way to other decks. So the Power Plant Stamp Combo, I think, is a really powerful Combo for the Dragon puled deck and I think it's the way that dragon pulled x will see play in the future, heading heading on into qualifier for and beyond, and so things like that will probably make their way into the other, you know, big decks that can accommodate that. Right. I think those are all fair. We talked a little bit last week, and so you can you can...

...always feel free checked out of as well, about the dynamic of the peak rom versus atps oshtion matchup, and we had, you know, mostly theorized whether or not pe Kuram was still, like you, losing match up there or if it had taken, you know, the lead because of all the things that have been afforded to it from the rebel clash set. Now that we had some more hands on experience, yeah, with peak rum, especially in the last you know week or so, the week doubt, we've had this results in the time to digest that. Do you still feel like that's the case? I feel like ATP's option completely blue peeking round out of the water just a set ago. It has that completely flipped on its head. Is that something that maybe is little more even but still favored? I mean it's just tough with I think, again, the few factors that have came out, like the the speed, lightning energy just increasing your odds of getting the turn one. I think the tag call engine is the way to go. So basically, if you have the stadium and deck, you're guaranteeing yourself a turn to full blitz and then having the bolt on to just continually one shot in that mid to late game is pretty potent for the peak rum deck, and so I think it can be all those things just kind of combined with ATP not really gaining too much in terms of its speed potential, and I think that that that really helps the match up a lot for peak rum. Right for sure. So taking a look then at the way that you're that you should be building atps option. I think stuff like energy switch that can just really sprice up, spruce up your consistency and your turn one potential a little bit further, especially in Games where we're going second might be elevant. We had lightly mentioned stuff like that last week and it seems like that's the way that builds have continued to evolve. I would recommend playing in energy switch or two set. Way You can continue to push and push the limits of of what your deck is looking like right and what it's able to achieve more quickly. Because but what ends up happening, I think, is you need the altered creation. However, you can get that to happen, and then I think it's easier to stream, you know, to you know, two of the DOS oshtions. After that, after you've altered creation, then it is to even get the altar creation off in the first place. Sure, exactly. So what, however, you have to build your deck to achieve that, I think, is going to be. is going to be the money. So let's take a look down at ATPEES option. You talked about that being underplayed. I think I agree after my experiences in the last week or so. So why do you think it was under play? Do you think it was because it was just no longer the star of the show it or do you think it was more of a situation where people are excited to try out new ideas and decks and gravitated towards those concepts instead. Yeah, generally, I just think that people were excited to try out new things. I think that people were looking at like baby blill Cephalon and maybe fearing that matchup a little bit, although I don't necessarily think it needs to be as feared as as maybe some people would. But yeah, I think a combination of those two factors would be a rise of baby bills are re rise. I don't know what are the the cementation of baby bill cephalon has a tier one deck, and then the just kind of new, you know, drag a poults. I kind of feel like the people that were really, really into atps option and really just learn the INS and ous of that deck, we're going to gravitate towards drag a polts. I don't know. For some reason, because I just speak from personal experience, like that was me. I was going to just stand APSATION for all events until it did. Kidding, you know, and then you know that ridiculously. So yeah, and then you know, now we get dragon palled and that really like captures me for whatever reason. And so yeah, I just I see some parallel in those and just like perfect math and I don't know kind of the the consistency of the two. And so, yeah, I just think combination of those factors let a lot of people to play something different. Is there a reason that you see a parallel between the two? Because to me almost I feel like that there's of conflicting strategy between those two decks. Right, if he's a shit, tries to overrun you with overwhelming damage, and you know, I think of Dragon poll, the first thing I think of is not overwhelming damage. Yeah, yeah, well, I don't know, I think just like with the ATP deck, like you're the matchups within ATP was big. Were against things like mewtwo and against things like Pica. We're having this kind of perfect math. Damage was, you know, optimal, like you were trying to fit in just enough damage modifiers to do the perfect math without going too far overboard. And you had the mirror where you're trying to get down shrines to hit perfectly into their ATP and so I just kind of feel... as like you're trying to get everything exactly right with atpsation, or that's how I felt when when it was the big deck in the format. Now things are a little bit more skewed, obviously, because you have things like v Max has, which just up the damage that you need, you know, for one shots, which is just unattainable by ATP Zation now. But just that kind of perfection that you were looking to attain without wasting resources is something that I find dragon pulled also. Does you know you're trying to use and dragon poll every single scoop of net for it's like maximum potential, and you're trying to put the energies at the exact right places and place the damage counters so that you don't waste a single damage, and it's just all these things that remind me of the atpzation deck where you're just like trying to hit the perfect numbers and you're trying to use your metal patches exactly right and, you know, trying to use your gust effects perfectly. In formats passed. Yeah, I kind of see what you're saying there. I also feel like the one caroall I was going to draw was maybe instead of you know, the actual attacks, it was the sort of cadence of gameplay seems familiar to me. Where you're kind of like having a relatively slow turn one, just attaching and then, yeah, turn to, like the whole game transforms relatively quickly around. That's like an attachment and your attack that comes with it, because I think what's key to dragon poll is spreading that damage all over the place as quickly as possible, and that's only thing like achievable literally on turn to, just because of the nature of the evolutions, no matter what kind of crazy exceleration mechanisms you have in there. Right, right, so, right. That's what that's to me. The immediate parallel I draw is like you, yeah, your turn one, sure it up and then turn to it like yeah, blows up and yeah, and right, and that's like, not to say like everyone that played atpsation that like likes dragon pulled. That just say. For me that's kind of where I saw the you know, and my brain is at right now is like I really loved Atpz and then now I really really enjoy dragon poults and I don't know, maybe there's some connection there in my brain. Yeah, maybe you just like the poster child decks. Maybe maybe it was a sucker for the Punkamon sports decks. So where do you see other decks? So we've talked about Pekram, talk a little bit about dragon pulse, but like what are some other things that you would expect to show up in quarter for that you know, have a realistic shot of winning the entire term? Yeah, I think I think the first thing we have to point out, and I'm going to take a free second here, I just want to thank a kill a cuddles and the chat they've they've got a subscription. have been give it out a couple more and we were just I feel like at that point we have to just say it out loud. So thank you so much, killing cuddles for the support. I think there's a couple realistic possibilities for for strong contenders right now in this format, and the subject is really popping off. It's like slightly distractive. So I think Peakhurram is, of course, the big top dog and one the last event. It's it doesn't feel surprising if it would see continued success in this one, even if people try to work against it. Yeah, I think another big contender that we're going to be looking at is baby will cephalon. We lightly mentioned it in our discussion of matchups. Earlier Bible stuff on. What it lacks in raw consistency, it gets back in pure power and output, and that's something I think that really can't be the underestimated. And the thing I've beat the CEFF on it is almost feels like anyone can pick it up and see success. There's certainly a lot of craziness that go there is a lot of there is nuance in the sequencing and stuff like that, but that's almost stuff that you can you just practice that on your own. Like you don't even need to necessarily have an opponent across from you any given time. Right right. It's like very effective to play. It's very effected to play on the ladder and grind on the ladder because and it's not really dependent on what your opponent is doing, right, and so like you gain a fundamental skill when playing that that you can just transfer to a lot of your a lot of your games, and I think that's actually a valuable resource. The fact that the fact that it can be picked up in that sort of way doesn't require like rigorous play testing to to understand the INS and outs of and that's not to that's not undermining like the success that anyone has has seen when playing the deck. It's more along lines of I think it's it's cool that you can pick up the deck, look at it on the ladder and have that as experience, as opposed to some decks I feel like are very nuanced in their gameplay. particularly. A good example is, you know, the Gar Chompire Tina decks a couple formats back. They were incredibly strong, but they had very particular gameplay patterns. They I feel like you can only really really replicate if you're testing them in real, real situations that...'d be in all the time, sure, just because they were so particular about where like damage was placed and all that kind of fun stuff, whereas the flip side of that is something with me, the stuff on where you can just kind of grind it and get the experience. Yep. So yeah, I think I think it'll see success. I think a lot of people will likely play it because of the things that we've just outlined, and so whether it ends up being a numbers game or the power of the deck itself, it'll see it some continued success. Dragon all, honestly, I was never a huge fan of the deck and I was almost a little surprised at how successful it was. And yes, it I don't know, it felt like a mixed bag right where you really struggled to get dragged pulled off the ground and qualifier three. There was also multiple people who made top eight. Yeah, yeah, and I think I was validated in my choice of Dragon Fault for the for or the event because there were so many players that did very well with it. And I think my problem with the concept of the deck was that I tried to be a little too reactive with my Dragon Pultz. I went for a more of a healing route and I think that maybe isn't the way to go with dragon poll I think you do have to be a little bit reactive, but things like, again, this power plant stamp Combo, I think is a perfect partner for Dragon Pult, because you know you're going to probably take a hit. It's just you know, power plant stamp is maybe a stronger, harder combo to come out of than just healing one hundred and twenty. Yeah, and so I think I think you're hitting the kind of like the right direction right where it's like maybe the direction that you took dragon pult was a little too much on the defensive side of things and I think what we need to see is dragonful take more of an offensive stance. So even though power plant stamp is, you know, I would consider that to still be a reactive Combo. Sure, it's a much more offensive reactive combo than, you know, just healing. Yeah, just kind of yeah, obviously, as funny as that sounds, but to just kind of go over that point, you know it the stamp is only really effective when you're down on prizes or, you know, when you're trying to make a comeback, or when you're trying to limit your opponent's hand after they've taken their first knockout or two. And so yes, I just feel the as though that is a card that was underutilized in court qualifier three, but as really shown its potential. And so I think it just makes the perfect partner for dragon pull because they probably your opponent is probably going to knock out, you know, your Geraci. Ideally you have that turn one and then they'll probably knock out of emacs and at that point you know you're looking at a stamp to to stamp two, three and just trying to stick them with the power plant right. Think for one supporter and then you know you're picking off their pivots, their GERACI's on the bench and it just makes it a lot harder for them to get out of the lock right and I think an important aspect of that is sort of picking off the pivots and stuff it. Like pe Kurram like, you really need to disrupt their strategy at some point in the game, at least a little bit, to consistently beat the deck, in my opinion, because what'll happen oftentimes against peak rom in my experience, is they're able to very quickly aggress on your dragon fults, even just the little to price Jag of folts that haven't yet vmax, and that obviously puts you in a compromise situation where they can quickly set up a checkmate and there's a bolt on down the board and yeah, you know you can't immediately knock that out with a dragon folt deck, no matter what you do. And so the the flip side of that becomes trying to disrupt peak ram in turn. So peak ram is disrupting you through your pure aggression, and so you have to respond back by, you know, planning your feet in the ground and saying, well, you know, take this and and you know doing something along the lines of like a plant stamp. So I think that's a good idea. I think we will likely see more things like that in jagged pult and I so I'd like to touch that on that little more though. So you had mentioned when you built in constructed Your Dragon Pul deck, that the main thing that you were worried about was the mirror. And I don't know if you have planted your feet in the ground and saying and are saying this is still like how I play it from your scenarios, but what is caused you to to shift your focus away from dragon pull into other matchups, considering it still did get multiple top eights? Well, I just think that I could, I'll play the opponent. If it's a mirror situation, then I think that just the resource management that I would need or not playing certain pokemon down at certain times would be able to give me just a little bit of an edge. And then there's also other things that you consider that are softer counters, that are just maybe more versatile than something like, I'm Maloen Lana, although Mal Laana is still very good and I would be looking to include it. As you know, it's like one of those last few cards for inclusion or cutting. I would look to also include like crushing Hammer,... know, where has very good use against ADP, has very good use in the mirror, has like a very reasonable use against Peka Ram and maybe Bill Cephalon and all these different decks. So that would be where I would potentially look to go. That's like an option. And so yeah, I just think maybe that softer counter that is a little bit more usable and more matchups is a little bit better than something that is just kind of head headlong for the mirror. Yeah, I think that makes sense. I prefer and approach more along those lines as well, building your deck for the field and taking on the mirrors as they come, right, with the exception of you know, if a deck is overwhelmingly going to be popular, than of course that you'll prepare for those mirrors, right, right. So I think that all makes sense. So looping back, though, to the question of what else I think could potentially see success, I think we've covered a lot of it. Piker on, dragged pult, but Cephalon and I forget what I've already said, Pekurro Saushian, dragon pulte blonde to Shay. Okay, so that is the four. Okay, I feel like I felt like I was missing on with that. Was the four. That was mainly I mean those are probably the top four, I think, just generally speaking, those are what people are saying. You know what, these are good. They prove themselves last qualifier and they should just remain good, whether or not people innovate them at all or just kind of copy the lists. I mean, we now have kind of the lists out there, the kind of I was I was talking last week about how the top performing, you know, dragon pulled deck is going to kind of set the standard for Dragon puled dext moving forward, and so I think we're just going to continue to see that more of the same, but more of these kind of polished lists of the once that were successful in the last term, right and so. But taking that into like the next step, we had talked last week about some of the niche decks that we thought might be either that either were good for court qualifier three or might be good looking into qualifier for I think a couple of them that stood out to me are going to be like a muto focus deck, and the obstacleon styled deck that you were a fan of. So you know, you had mentioned obstacle earlier and the fact that it kind of can struggle against peak ram. Yeah, and I think the main reason that it at least in my mind that it does that, is because of the mixture of, you know, Pika choose, a crow being able to aggress very quickly and threatened, a tag bowlt will at the same time right to and right Che's able to paralyze the obstacons and, yeah, force them. Of that your situation really weird dichotomy there with the matchup, because on the obstacle side, like theoretically your ideal is to just have the one obstacleon now and just be able to attack, an attack, attack, but the problem with doing that, obviously, is that right to ride you can come in to paralyze you and if you don't have a pivot to switch to, then you're screwed. So you have to have to poke one now. But then that in turn threatened you know, your opponent, the opponent playing peek around can threaten the tag bolt and if they just get one gust then they can take out two obstacon targets and so it just gets really funky and really awkward and just you're a stage to so you're going to have the set up and if your opponent plays anything disruption wise, like you're trying to set up this big hand or you're trying to dig out the Rosa and then you get reset stamped or you get marnied or whatever and that rose goes back into the deck and you can't find it on the turn that you need it, then things get really screwy or you pries too many things and it just the consistency is all obviously favoring peak ram and so us, the U, as the goons player, have to overcome that with your lock. It's sometimes your lock isn't even good enough to overcome. Yeah, so let's expand on that idea. Further off, Stagen was a deck that you would called out as being a potentially good pick, at least in qualifier three, and hindsight, I do you think it retains that going into qualifier? For is peak rom too difficult to overcome, or are there tricks that you can include in your bag to improve the peak on matchup? I think I think it's good. I think it's a good matchup for goons. I just don't think it's like an auto win by any means. Like an Autowin for goons would be baby will set for sure, but peak rom is just maybe not that as maybe like a forty five matchup where you have a slight edge. But there are a lot of things that peek around can do. If Pek Ram hits the things they need to in the order that they need them, then they're just going to be able to win kind of no matter what you do. But then on the flip side of that, if goons, you know, hits the things that you need at the right times, then they can counteract that. And so for goons I think a big thing is trying to play some type of you know, I mean you kind of have to play a heavy hitter or two or potentially three, where you can just take a one shot on their big boy.

The turn that they bring it up, like the turn that they tag bolt six energy onto their peak around, like you got to have a response that turn. You know, you got to have your revolt. That's like probably what you would do there. And then as the game progresses, you know, if you can build up and they're trying to go for the paralyzed strategy. Will maybe if you can set up a sable eye, then that's going to kind of take care of the ride shoe, ride chew and the other things that you can kind of include. Well, the one that comes to my mind specifically for Peek Roum, besides something like like a shrine of punishment, would be the mimic you to make it just that much harder to retreat right, the mimic you with the with the gx ability block, and so just make it that much harder to get into the ride, shoe, ride chew and back, and so that would be the one kind of trick that I have found that that does hinder peak around substantially. Yeah, another thing I was thinking of, and I think fews network also tweeted this out, is potentially including an energy switch, and the reason that you could do that is while you're locking, if they go for the paralyzed strategy, you should already have multiple energy on board from your lock and then you could switch them onto the the sable eye to immediately take a knockout and they bring the right you write you up, sure, because my biggest problem with the sable eye. I agree to strong card, but like it's two attachments and you have a to prize you're sitting there that you're attaching to for multiple turns in a goons deck and that just feels completely counter into it, if to how the deck should play in my view. So the veltall feels like a more natural fit than the didn the sable eye to me. Right, and so including something that can, you know, mitigate that, I guess, weirdness with the sable eye to me, seems like a valuable option. It even just as a one of it. You can retrieve off a rose or something. Sure, because you know you do have these this powerful search card that can quickly get you three piece combos. And when you think of something like sable eye, that's an exact three piece come like a folk roond and energy and an item are literally the things that you need to pull it off. So right, right, and I and I guess like a switch or something. But you know, no, I mean I think it's a good deck. I think people that are interested in playing it, like I think generally, will have a good time if they know what they're doing. Again, that goons is a deck where you can help play your opponent. You know, you can put damage counters on certain things. The text that you include are going to flip matchups depending on how you use them. And so I just I like Obstagon, I don't know that it I don't know that it can. Like if you're telling me, okay, your JW, you're going to play Obstacon, but you're going to play against thirteen peak ram like, I don't know that I would be excited to play out right. You know, it certainly can and win the matchups. Yeah, and when that matchup it just I think again, we look at the best deck in the format as being peak rom. It just it doesn't take an auto win against that, even though it like should, and I think it's general kind of inconsistencies are what's going to keep it away from from winning the tournament. Now I think it could absolutely top eight. Could absolutely have a couple place in the top sixteen, but I think just generally speaking, we're not going to see a large influx of you know, goons players converting and making it into the higher, higher rankings of the qualifier for yeah, I think I'm or less agree. Generally. I'm not a huge fan of the lock, certain type of attackers down kind of deck, at least one it's reliant on an attack. So I'm thinking of stuff like like the Joltians, nicklecions of years passed and yeah, I was never a big fan of those kinds of strategies and Rop sagoon is kind of remnission of that. So not I've still not a huge fan of it, except for the fact the obstacleon is like funnier. I guess like that's it's more entertaining. Sure, just from like a high level standpoint it's funnier. So yeah, I like that. I also will say if hopefully not too many people show with obstacuty, because that mirror is just the worst. It reminds you of the grinincher mirror a kind of does yeah, or you just doll. You do like a very minimal amounts of damage, forever, back and forth. You're sniping a little bit, but not really. It's right. It's wild. A while back Fredy and I actually played that mirror against each other and we spent like a solid hour on tcg oh, just like and then you're like well, and then you're scooping up right, and if you play like lannoon are if you played to Lannoon, then you're trying to like a lot. It's like you're scoop up the active and then you know, yeah, I like use the night slash on the LNOON and, like you, it just gets it's too much. Yeah,...

...yeah, so the other deck, though, on my side of the less popular spectrum, Wass the Walter me to deck. I don't think there's a ton we really have to elaborate on with this deck. I think it's basically retained the same core strategy and elements to it, and it's just that strategy is still decently strong. Is there anything you want to hit on specifically for me too, any US Darians? Not, not particularly. I don't see welder mewtwo or the quote unquote ultimate meut really making that big of a splash again at some point. Since there are thirty or so decks in the format and I would qualify like the mew two decks in this very as solid tier to there's just not enough time to test them all, so I couldn't like tell you the INS and outs of the mew too matchup against you know, the I don't know all the new style the dragon pull Matt. Like I can't really tell you the INS and outs, but just from past experience and the results that we saw on quarter three, I just don't really see that deck performing against the other tier one decks. Yeah, I I can kind of see that as well. I think it can choke out a lot of matchups, but I think it's struggles probably against the ones that are going to be most impactful. Well, and then you look at it and I just like when you're thinking about playing for a quarter, for like, I would just want to play a deck that aside for maybe Dragon Paul, but like I would just want to play a deck that I know has a few of those matchups that I can just go in, not unnecessarily autopilot, but just like I'm so confident in that matchup, like going and I just going to am going to beat it. I don't know that welder me two quite has that. Like I'm trying to think of a matchup where it's like yes, Welder Mute two, I want to play into this matchup and I just can't think about one. And that's I don't know. Would be kind of concerning to me if I was thinking about playing a mewtu variant. I just can't really figure out a matchup that I would really enjoy playing against. No, and I think I think that's relevant factor and something I think would even sort of expand on. That is the fact these are long, thirteen round days and it gets exhausting to play a where you're not running into a lot of your favorable matchups. are like heavily favored matchups. But you know when you're when you're working with stuff like, you know, obvious agony, take a free win. That's like refreshing and it makes it even though off sacoon is a very slow cadence of play and like you're often going to be having long games, like some of those matchups are just going to be free wins and you you sit down, you set up and you win and you know once it's after yes, rounds high, it's refreshing, like even when you're in those winning scenarios, even though officing you might take away out a win, it's like not like a lot of brain power goes into it once you have set it up. So you're just like yeah, you know obstructive structure, instruct it. So like you know you could just maybe do it anything in that time. You know, it just like clicking the button every twenty seconds when it comes back to you. Right, that's right. So I understand what you're saying for sure. Where it's I would place even in an above average value on taking those like refreshing sort of matchups because the days are so long in this event. Yeah, and then I would also like to touch on Spear Tumb and mill and I troll. Yeah, I want to say mill and spear two or mill and hand control or probably the big elephants in the room I was talking. Yeah, first yeah, I mean they they always seem to be and we always kind of say that every every cast, or at least for the last couple weeks. But for the Spear Tumb Deck, I think it's fine. I think there's been some talk, I was talking with somebody today, about out the spear tomb beasts deck where it's just no ATP you're just going to go in, you're trying to hit everything for weakness. You got a Buzzwall, you got your for Spear Tomb, for the Dragon poll, you got our Ni Aligo just to you know, kind of hit in that clean up spot. And then you got to like a Billi CE flon gx to take the burst for the game, and so there is been a little bit of talk about that. I've seen that being posted on twitter and things like that. People really seem to enjoy spear tomb just on its own, without the help from ATP. People love that card. Do I love Spirit Tomb? Not Really, because I don't know that it has a favorable I don't know that it has an extremely favorable matchup against dragon pault. It might, in my estimation, take, you know, a forty five matchups drag a poults or whatever. You know, that very fractional improven in the dragon ball matchup. But if you're not beating the deck that you're like really hard countering, I don't again don't know that it would be my choice. I think that Dragon Polk can handle the spirit tuned deck and so for that reason I don't love it as a pick. If people are...

...coming up to me and saying that they want to play it, I mean for sure. Like I would say, it's a deck that you want to be practiced with and I think the more practice than experience players are going to know exactly what to do in every single matchup. And be able to you know, again, I'll play. You're going to know what to do with your damage counters when you're going to know when to drop shrine, you're going to know into jenks and what to Jinks to and when to use your spirit tum ability and things like that. But it's just I don't I'm not a I'm not a huge fan of the deck and so I, you know, got bodied in the quarter to qualifier and of course I might have some bias, but sure, yeah, again, just spirit toumb it's fine. I would never tell you not to play it, but it wouldn't be a deck that I would look to for a quarter for just because the favorable the favorable matchup against dragon polt really isn't that favorable. Yeah, and I think, you know, calling back to the experience factor of spirit tomb, I think it's telling that spirit tum only really has consistently seen success in the hands of Ross coffin, who has played this deck, no doubt a ridiculous amount of that man becomes a fiend for a single deck at a time and test it beyond belief. So I think if if you're not able to replicate, not necessarily that level of it. But if you're not able to sort of simulate that sort of testing dome experience of Spirit Toumb then a lot of the nuance of it is going to be it's going to be difficult to pick up right and I think especially in this format where you have dragon pult that is so much manipulation of the damage on board, it's even more pertinent that you have that kind of experience heading in, whereas before, you know, in the previous format, you know, I don't think it was as necessary because you did have a pretty straightforward game playing against every deck, right, but especially like the fact that spear tous like, Quote Unquote, counter a dragon pull, but you have to really finesse the way that you play it. I think it's very telling. Yeah, especially like when you have dragon ball list that play, you know, the horror energy, right, can just kind of if they have a couple of horror energy attached, then it just goes right back into you as a knockout. Things like giant bomb, if they're playing that in their dragon poult list. Just a lot of things can really go off the rails for you as a spirit tum players right, not to mention the fact that you know, double prize turns or not, you know, not out of the norm for a dragon pull player, and so if you're not able to stream those spear tombs, then it gets really hairy in that mid to late game. I mean you just want to end the game like as soon as possible, as the spirit to player, and if you're giving the Dragon Ball player the time to set up to Dragon Ball vmax is like at that point is pretty much over for you. So it's tough. It's a fine deck, it's it definitely has a place in this metagame, but again, there are some issues with it, not just the dragon pull matchup, but there are just some issues with it that would lead me away from that De Yeah, so let's move into the into what everybody's been waiting for, though, and that's the Mill and control style decks. All, I think, first off, what are you preferring among those kind of decks and, second off, where do you see them landing in the qualifier? For I think mill is fine, but I really have been seeing an influx and I also like the control hand control variants. I think we've been seeing a general lack and if you look at the top performing decks of qualified three. Let's just go off that. But if you look at that, they're they've tended not to include the ranger and so the rang Greu and a handlot against the hand lock. That G is a very good counter because you just get to see one extra random card as supposed to being chip, chip, ICE ACS locked for the entire late game, you know, and so you're getting to see that one extra card with your anger. But if your list doesn't include it, then the hand lock deck becomes that much more powerful. So I think handlock is probably better. Article was very good. Right now. Just generally chip, chip is stronger if people don't include a rang guru. So I think that's a really great choice, a very strong choice, and I think the way that we will see, the way that we will see the stall mild exco. Yeah, yeah, I think for sure, especially harkening back to Articuno, is incredibly good in this format. Just can really shut a deck completely out of the game. Really want it want you declare that cold crush. So yeah, it can be really tough to come back from that. Is there anything that you would include outside of that our anger to potentially improve those matchups? POKEMON says. Any thoughts on a palm? I mean that's a new promo that came out. I don't know that it's legal just yet, but I'm my my people have to get back to me on that one. But let's see. There are things like I've been...

...seeing just skypillar index as like a Dragon Pault answer and if you can get the handlock Combo against the Dragon Paul Deck and, you know, mill out their stadiums, because they generally only play a couple stadiums, so I can get rid of those, then you should have a pretty decent shot. I've been seeing a lot of like the resurgence of Faba in the male control decks, and that's I mean kind of goes without saying. I think special energies are pretty strong right now, with Peka Ram and Dragon Paul seeing a lot of play, and so those are the two that maybe just come to my mind immediately, but obviously there are so many different ways you can go with that deck. Sure, I'm actually trying to see online of the apalm is legal or not. I want to say it is, and I can't see when the actual blister came out, though it's so hard to find like good details on the blisters. Yeah, yeah, I mean again, come on, as it doesn't really surprise me either way. Right, like I wouldn't know either way. Just it's not a card that I've Oh no, actually, I hear it is a palm card. Numbers on a moon. Two hundred forty four legal date, sixty five a perfect so now no, a palm, unfortunately, not legal. But no, I should be a good card. Should be a good card when it is legal for play, but just not for this qualifer. Good news is that Mantine Sword and shield twenty six is legal upon release. So well, I've been waiting. We've been saying it all along on this cast. How we waiting for Mantime, man time twenty started. Seal Twenty six is going to be really big. Bras. So that's huge. That's huge. Actually, can't wait. Well, last time ant I have like a good card. Never Yeah, I want to say that too. I don't think it ever had a good card. I can I'm only picturing the card from heart goold soul silver or that era. There is a man time card. That's the only also a man Tyke. That's true. Well, no, there wasn't one from that. Oh Yeah, you're right. It was from the Diamond Farlier, wasn't it? Yeah, the all the man take ye, for Fanta really got get the short end of this stick with the baby book. I'm on. Well, circling back to the mill stall and we should open up the field to questions from the chat. But just just a question for you, Riley. You know what, what do you think in terms of in its in its rankings of the decks, if we're saying that the big four are like Cephalon, dragon pull, Peka, Ram and ATP Z, what do you think ink is Stall Stall's position in that? In that maybe tier one lisp like? Do you think it hangs with those and what kind of changes would you make going into a field of those four? Yeah, I think when I think of stuff like hand control, I always would take those kind of matchups. Maybe peek around being the question mark amongst those, but you know, stuff like the Cephalon, stuff like obstacle, stuff like ATPS aution, those are all pretty okay matchups. Again, atps options maybe the only one where hand control decks particular can struggle, but it's also relatively easy to just change this plant stamp. It kind of keep them down no matter how many times they they try and use this options ability. So I think actually it's got a decent field set up for stuff like the Cephalon, is a hard win for any sort of stall deck, so that can't really be overlooked either. The only thing that kind of makes me nervous is just being sort of run off the board because the Meta is pretty fast right now and sometimes I find that stall decks will struggle to find their footing before those decks take the aggression necessary to take their prizes. Mainly I'm thinking of peak a ram being very aggressive and then even if you get the cold crus shop, they can zero or gx to recover a huge amount of energy and eighty he's option can very quickly altered creation and if you don't have responses at within the next turn or two after that, then you've basically lost because they're taken so many prizes that you aren't necessarily anticipating. And again, this is specifically for like a hand control style deck, not really a mill style deck. I'm more partial to hand control. I don't the mill deck. I thought it was fun but I never really liked it. I prefer having like more options afforded to you and being able to actually like work against your opponent, whereas, if you like, the mill deck was almost playing like solitaire or just kind of just like doing a thing. And sure I prefer to like more actively do stuff against my opponent. Sure I so I think. I think the field is there.

I think it'll probably be see very little representation, as it typically would. I think mills hey day and stalls hey day was really in the sword and shield set one where that that one and cheat. You know, mill deck really just overwhelmed us at the start of the format. Yeah, you could go to games on the ladder that see. So yeah, I don't think there's even too much you'd have to change to really account for them at a game either. Stuff like Faba can potentially be useful in certain matchups, but I think it's actually relatively smooth sailing. I just think only a dedicated player base is really going to pick it up. We have seen some recent innovations into that style. Ahone was trying out sort of the floorgeous kind of variant on his stream the other day and I think that deck seems okay on paper. It might struggle and practice to get fully up and running. I think there's just floor just, I think asks for a lot really quickly, dumb and if it doesn't get that at struggles. So yeah, I think I think those decks are actually in a fine spot. I think the metagame is is panting well for them. I think mill might have a better foothold in the metaw just because it I think it better deals with stuff like peak around by just like also having its own form of aggression where you sure, you know, aggressively you will start removing cards from their deck while they're also trying to aggressively remove cars from their deck. And especially, you know, I don't think that even like, even like saying it out loud. It's kind of funny that pepe even attaching energy like causes peaker on like self mill. Yeah, you know that. I didn't really think about that till just body you'd peek around. That's just say. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's any like special tricks that you've really thought of. I think the decks are fine. The probably see similar representation. Yeah, yeah, I think they're good. I think they're good. You you kind of hit on all the reasons why you would play it and why you wouldn't. So if you were going to play riling Porto, for you told me before the stream that you're not. I'm very sad no collapse. But if you were going to play, what deck you would you choose and why? I think I would just probably still run with the peak aroun deck, at least at this point in time. If I was going to submit a list, it would be a peeker on deck. I think the deck has all the tools it needs to succeed and that's usually what I like in a day, even if it ends up being the tier one deck that people expect. I think having the tools is more important than, you know, having that surprise factor, and I think p Kram has all the tools. That has a variety of strong attacks that can do all sorts of powerful things like snipe, damage and paralyze and ACCELERAT energy and one shot, like what you say it out loud. There's actually like an absurd amount of things that it can do, but it can and that's sick, and so I like that. Yeah, and I had a love hate relationship with p Kram. I actually really love the card when it first came out, and then everyone started to like it too, and I like hipsterred out of it and said I hate Pekr Im ever since. But I think the dram is just the deck to play for this event and I wouldn't really want to pass that opportunity up. Nice. How about yourself, if to tonight, Wednesday night as a recording, what is the current deck that sticks out to you? I leaned towards dragon pulse. There's just something about it that's really there has to be something about it if you got so bodied and are still loving it. I know, I know, I know, and I, like a lot of me, wants to move off of the deck, like a lot of me really does, and I'm trying, and I'll try on stream tonight to play the deck and play with some other things that I'm considering to just see what happens. But I've been really enjoying the plant stamp in the in the dragon pulled. I want to see how far that can take me. I think that the plant stamp Combo gives you a very reasonable shot against peak ram again taking away the retreat options that it loves with Zero Aura, taking away the dednni options that it loves and in any facet of the game and just removing the hand in the lake game is just so big against that deck that can it can just be the difference. You know, you just need one turn, I feel like, against that deck with Dragon Paul, to just make sure that you're knocking out the thing that has the most energy or the thing that's the biggest threat. And so I think that's just enough and it has enough like mobility in the other matchups to just really kind of solidify and do the things that I wanted to do with the deck and quarter three, it actually does it now and I think it would make her great, great choice. And so I want to see what else the format has. I want to test, notably ATPZ, which I have not put in a ton of time in with in this format. I want to, you know, really kind of boost my opinions on that deck and my matchups on that deck. And...

...the other thing I would consider, you guys, is bigger. I'm not to not to kind of just go with the flow on that, because I think a lot of people will play pre crime, but it's very justified because there's just so many things you can do, so many situations you can get out of, and you know, it can beat a lot of the counter decks. So it does. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, to me the only thing that's to suade me from potentially playing peekerram is the prospect of plying that horrible, Horrible Mirror match. The Mirror is going to be tough. I mean, if you're looking at it and you look at the breakdown of decks and day two, like, it would not surprise me to see peekerm take up a quarter of the day two decks, and so you're you're going to probably be playing two, twenty three, potentially more day one and then and day two. You know, who knows? I think it's a really strung deck. Yeah, I think a lot of people will play it. So either cop on it or you have an answer to it. Yeah, I think it's interesting that you're still sitting on Dragon poled as well. Dragon pold is just a deck that I have not been able to vibe with. I don't know what about it it is, I think just the thing that I personally don't like about Dragon Poult is just you're stuck at that one thirty man and it can feel really bad sometimes if you're getting aggressed on, and you you know, especially by another gx, Pokmon or a V and Yep, you can't immediately respond, like you have to hit it two, three, maybe four times if they heal at some point, you know, potentially four times before you and I just feel so bad to me. True, I think Dragon Pault is the kind of deck that has like these intangibles that can't really like. It's like it's like the Draymond and green of decks. Right, we can't really quality quantify why it's good, but it just is, like it just is good. Like it and it provides such value to you. Like it doesn't have the one shot numbers. You know, okay, let's have Alon's good because it hits insane that numbers, and like Pekurram is good because I had all these tools and the draw energy. But for Dragon poll yeah, it doesn't really do a lot of damage. You know, one hundred and eighty, I mean one hundred and eighty four two is good, but it doesn't, you know, it has no one shot options, like and no realm are you ever one shotting anything? But it takes out like the pivot pokemon like we were talking about. It can tank a hit. It can, you know, do very tricky things with the tech pokemon that you include. It just it all somehow works together to form this cohesive deck and, like I said, it's just the Swiss army knife of decks right now and something, I guess that is gravitating me towards it. Yeah, well, I certainly I can't hate on you for for enjoying the deck and and thinking it's a good choice. It's just that is my personal experience and something that it's made me uncomfortable is the yeah, is the inability to truly and respond to immediate aggression. Right, right, and so I think it's worth keeping in mind for anyone considering dragged pole. Is How you're going to deal with those scenarios, and I think you have started to formulate those plans for yourself and we've talked a lot about how that might look, and I would highly recommend, if for considering Dragon Pole, also investing at time to figure out what your game plan is going to be working in those kinds of situations, because you're going to be putting them for sure. Absolutely, absolutely cool. Well, I think we've about reached our time here. We have a lot of discussion, I think more than we even anticipated. Because we just start. I feel like we do this all the time where we talk before the castle. Oh yeah, we'll do like nothing really good say in the head. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like we're just very hint day to people and we tend to have a lot to say about the things that we want to talk about, which is spreads. I guess it works out for a podcast that a lot to talk about. There's a lot to talk about. Yeah, so I'm excited to see how this limitless qualifier develops. Be sure to check out JW stream this weekend, especially if you're not listening live. I JV does stream his limitless qualifier on twitchtv effects daddy righteous. He has some really awesome gameplay. It's a good attitude about the whole thing. I was tuning in even as he was getting destroyed the last last time. He still had a good attitude and made the stream fun to watch. So I'd recommend checking that out. Thank you all for the support during the Stream. We got a huge influx of subs and gifted stubs and I think that community that we have is one of the best in Pokmon, so you'll really make it special. Be Sure to rate and review on Itunes, if you listen there, helps us get more visible and look get more people interested in the POKEMON trading card game. And with that, we'll see you next time. Peace, see you.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (137)