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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 17 · 1 year ago

2-17. Rebels with a Cause

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/ for more info on BLM causes

The boys are excited to discuss the results of the final Limitless qualifier! What are the top tier threats of Rebel Clash?! And what in the world is going on with the Player's Cup?!

What is up, everybody welcome back totag tea, the POKMON trading card, Gameis Premiere podcasting, do my nameis Rarli Hulbert joined by my good good friend, JW creewall Gw. How are youdoing today? Hey I'm doing good Riley. Thank you for asking. We just yesterdayfinished Avatar the last air bender on Netflix, and what a treat is that your first watchthrough of the show it is my wife- was addicted the whole time she was justlike she was. We went through it in like three days, but it was mostly justher staying up till like two in the morning watching you know you knowmajor parts of the season, wow, so yeah I did fin. You know I watched, Iwatched the big thing I watched enough to like understand the general blot utthere were like car like. I knew none of the jet Ark. Oh No, so I was like so confused when this guypulls up- and you know all the characters. Have you know thisrelationship with him? I don't know it as just itwas, pretty funny hat obutyeah. That was that was the big excitement this week in the CreewallHouse, very nice, very nice. That show is definitely one for the ages. I think that was a aphenomenally done show one of my favorites growing up and it's stillsomething that you can revisit and appreciate. As as a you know, artisticmedium and story well and they didn't overdo it. Three seasons worked outreal nice. Didn't try to. You know, extend it for a long period of time,just kind of night fit nice and snug. Now it takes oe stats, pocom, there'sno depth to the characters, but not being like they weren't trying too hardto just like keep it going. Ow Keep it alive. So I really appreciate it as awhole, really great piece, Art Yeah for sure. What's new with you, Riley I'vejust been working real hard man working real hard, a lot of stuff going on and the youknow employed world, but I'm thudging along it's. It's a taught me a lot of timemanagement to say the least, and but I think another important piece ofthat is knowing when to step away, especially when you're working fromhome right and like the line between your work and your personal life becomeincreasingly blurred, especially, you know now, during like an epidemic whenit's you're not really leaving as much in the first place so lying ges, increased clusingly,implored between your workhours and your home, your relax hours, and to meI think something that I've learned in the last couple weeks is: you knowknowing when it's just the limit for the day right and not for sure yourselfand overworking yourself and being willing to say you know now it's time,for you know to relax to be me and a stepway. Obviously, if there'sobligations like those come first, but like yeah, yeah, of course, but just tosay you know, you know what things need to be done. You do those and thenexactly just at the end of the day. It's your time exactly exactly. I thinkI think that's something that you can take into like all sorts of basses oflife right is like you need to be able to carv out like time for yourself andlike have respect of yourself and that kind of way, absolutely so. Javy o Jana Marer Chattin bfor thepodcast, and we feel like there's lot going on right now, if you're unaware,and we just feel the need to actually say something. granded GW Andi are twowhite men, so you know we're not we're notqualified to speak to any details on these subjects and we're aware of that. But what we do want to say is you know,tag team and our community and Pokemon as a whole is something o built uponinclusivity and that's something that we've harfed on in many episode now andthat obviously extends to not only people of Color in general, butspecifically to the black community, which has been dealt a great deal ofinjustice over. You know the course of American history, so we stand with youtag team is with you all the way our whole community is with you and personally I'm going to be donatingall of my twitch earnings for my most recent twitch payout to black livematter movements. So that's great. I just Wano Wellsidriling, so I t I don't think we need to. You know, stick on it too long, becausewe aren't the platform to consume that information, but I think in thedescription for the podcast this week, a'll include some lengths that you cancheck out. If you want to, you know, dig further into that and find mortways to support those movements. Absolutely yeah. I've been having theseconversations with my wife a lot over the last couple days of what it meansto have privilege and what it means to raise up those that are in a differentsituation. You know systemically- or you know otherwise, just that are in inlow income situations or...

...just are oppressed in many of thevarious ways that one can be oppressed in America today, and so just it's good to have theseconversations again, like you said, I'm not the most qualified. I would pointyou and we will point you to many resources that you know you can takeadvantage to look at to educate yourselves and others and did just want to say that we are infull support of the various movements that are going on right now and we wishthe best for our black brothers and sisters, and we just we stand with you in solidiarity.Absolutely absolutely so again, you know our community is strong. I hopethat you all reflect those values as well, because I think we built up areally inclusive, positive community intact team, even within the niturepokemind, which is you know, has that sort of element of being inclusive stepping into the Pokmon realmof thingsfrom there there's been quite a bit going on inthe frokmon world as well. We've we just came off our limitless qualifierfor JW rocking with he pikarom in there. The final limitliss qualifier beforetheir you know, actual invitational style event. So jbw walk us through thepekaram experience before we get into like the the actual winners of thistournament yeah. Well, I was really confused the night before, as I feellike, I always am, but just really wanting to make a good showing in thelast qualifier I kind of ebeen. You know I'm not not going to put itall up to the lock, but just I had felt like in the last couple of qualifiers,like it just didn't quite go my way, and I was looking for a deck to play.That was just ultra consistent that I felt good about and that had you knowpretty good matcheps against the field, and so I was really between dragopulsorbless sephlon the night before and I was trying to figure out. You know- andI was going on it over on the stream and just playing both decks, and theyreally didn't call to me in any way, and you were actually one of the ones.I was just like hey, you know what play Pekerom like that deck is just so goodand I'm like yes, you're right. The thing that I valued the most aboutPekaron was that I didn't really have unplayable hands when I wasplaying that deck. I could always do something you know I was alwaysattacking turned to. I was always putting some amount of pressure on, andI felt that that wasn't quite what I was getting with the blaseplandeck andin a lot of cases the drago politic was just falling a little bit short incertain matchups, and so I was like okay, you know what I'm going Ta gowith just the most consistent deck that I know a deck that I've played in thepast to success and a deck that I just expect to be a solidcall for the tournament. Nothing very you know spooky in terms of themetagaming. You know I wasn't trying to go for anything unique or unheard of,but the peaker on this I felt was very strong and I'll go over just the rounds veryquickly, so people know, but around one. I lost to a dust toks deck wich. Just wasn't the way that you want tostart the tournament we had. It was just so close like we had. We got itdone to the last prize and we were looking for our mallow and Lana, and itjust didn't happen for us, and it's like you know what that's how it goeslike if we get that Malonlana like were fine, but we don't and we loose andthen the second round we had a Dq or the opponent didn't show up, so he waseliminated from the tournament. It was w. We beat a blonds deck, which I knewgoing in was a pretty unfavorable matchup and I figure I okay. If by hitto and one dead draws, then that's kind of where I want to sit with thatmatchup, and so we did hit one in around three. They did end up dead,drawing took the win there round for we playd Dragon Pole, and I would say thatthis was the one favorable matchup on the day like if I could have played allmy rounds against Dragopole as he peakaron player. I figured I would havemade day to, and so I was looking for the Dragon Paldex for sure that feltlike a very solid winnable, favorable matchup round five,we played he pikaraum. We won around six, we docked a Spiri to him, anotherdeck that I was really concerned about heading into the day, but didn't figurethat I would see too many and again it was kind of like the bloseplon. Likemaybe we'll see two. Maybe if we can dack one then will be living large. You know well,come out of that and feel like. We were successful and then round eight afterthe lunch breaks, I'm sitting at what five and two at this point, roundaeplayed against a blaseflon ended up losing that one round nine Pikram was adub and I'm feeling great, you know sitting at seven and three,...

...but then we face another Peikaram thatgot an unbelievable turn one. It was just like the funkiest turn one. Theyhad four energy switching cards and they use like three of them orsomething it was just very bizarre how they got their turn. One ended up doingit and really in that peak around mirrors like if you, if you get thefirst turn fulblits you're, just in the driverceipt for the whole game and thenended up losing another one to Blos sephlon around eleven. So I just feltlike the matchups weren't really favorable, for me hitting threebleseplon. We did come away with a win against one of them that we donked, butespecially, you know the two spirit thim. We could have easily lost both ofthose really felt like. I only had the one matchup that was that was extfavorable in the dragpoll deck and then you know, got the positive side of variance in thepeakrom. But overall six and five ended up stopping there and not a great day.I still feel very strongly about the ZEC choice. It was the most populardeck in day too, of the Limilis qualifier number four, and so I can'treally hate on the list or the choice that I made for the event, but, likeall three that I was kind of deciding between at the last moment were good.But in the end I just couldn't get therewith the PEGARAUNDIC yeah and Peteri'm even taken that a step further was themost popular deck in the top. Sixteen as well getting a huge amount ofrepresentation relative to some of the other days. So you know, I don't thinkyou made a mistake in your choice and that's part partway me standing myground as well that I thinkwas a good choice e this event. Unfortunately, youknow so the story Goe, like you know only so many pekroms can get the goodside of the marience and make it all the way there, though right it's great,you know there has to be some peak around that that dies for the sins ofthe ones ahead of them. That's right! That's that was you this time. That wasdefinitely me for sure. I definitely fell on the sword. So let's talk about how the tournamentactually panned out. So at the very top we had a mirror matchbetween his cool and a player from Japan. Hi's name isescaping me right now. It is Tocato, Secki, Yep, exactly andso Tocato and is a little. Both rocking the COMPO SASHA DECK- and this was a deckthat was kind of a known quantity through the entire rebelclash format,but only really making an appearance, at least in in the ways that it has nowat this tournament. So you know myself, I kind of underrated,I think convosashiand Jby. I don't know if you feel similarly absolutely, but to me I think what sticks out about it-and I think this is something that you'll hear in like commentary of thesematches and amongst players who evaluate this teck is com. Ofos Acshonreally takes advantage of probably what's thestrongest card that they've frinted a long time and that's the scoopup netand I don't think any any deck really utilizes that card as well ascomposation. You can maybe make some arguments, but I think I think when itcomes down to it like, as far as as a high jow power level, and then it'sfurther supplanted by being able to very effectively use the scoopup neckcard and at Bing toget, your Grashicabo off multiple times or to get someinsane like Graci plays, is just generally a consistency card. So, and to me, I guess that was something Ijust under valued. I thought the damage output would be too low. I inclede thatthat was not the case GW. What are your thoughts in the CONVOS auciondext? Well,I think that first off, I think it's very, very strong. After playing withthe the polished list, I've seen the power of the deck in that it can reallytake a solid matchup to almost anything. If it does, you know as assuming itdraws and things it needs, but it has that builting consistency Watsasian, soit it usually does. I think for me what led me to believeit. Maybe wasn't quite the right deck choice for a tournament likethis would be that it's awfully fragile in a way, and what I mean by this isthat you generally set up like one Zahan on the board at anyone time there aretimes or you can get to down. I mean t that obviously happens, but a lot ofthe times. I find myself with just one zashion on the board powered up youknow attacking, but then I have to save my bench slots for all the supportPokmon that I need to take that extra prize, and so it leaves you in thesevery uncomfortable situations where you could get Marni or reset stamped andthen just kind of not be able to pull the pieces together to get anotherzaction going to take the final attacks, and that's where I was kind of headinginto the tournament, just kind of not...

...feeling that the deck had the strength to go the distance. I think there weresome innovations that I saw from a zools list and Tokatas list that werevery, very cool and added a lot to the deckthat I really hadn't seen before. But overall it is, in my opinion, thestrongest deck of this format. Just like ATP was the strongest deck of lastformat for just being able to put your opponent on a turn clock. This does theexact same thing just in a different way and a slightly faster way, makingit that much better and the prize trade is a lot better than ATP, where youcould take down a three prize, pokemon and then just snipe off. You know aGerashi as well as a dedenarization like this one. You pretty much have togo through three isation. If you just add up the total hip points, there's a significant difference therein terms of you know the meat that you have to go through as the opposing deckto take your six prices yeah, and I think I think you kind of hit on a lot of thethings that that I would say and agree with. For me, I, the damage output wasinitially offputting, because I thought that there would be more of a tag team,centric Meta, I suppose I thought Muto would still be. You know a viableoption. I thought I like these ATPDX and still be a factor. I thought youknow, heamage ves pekeron would be a a relevant number but yeah. What I thinkended up happening is, as the Meta has shifted, in a way thatyou know now: Draga Pul, a Favori deck and you know even Pekeram like you- canstill find that pretty clear routes to win and then in Zashin Mirrors, likethere's, no reason to really power up an ATP and waste two turns when youcould be aggressing on turn to or even turn one if you don't have an explosiveenough start, and I think that's the that's the factor that I underestimatedand I think even damage oup put aside, you have such a an advantage in termsof aggression. Right like you, were able to do so much so quickly asopposed to having this bend at least one turn using alter creation. You know,if you happen to do some anal, rich craziness, that's still a turn whereyou're doing our you know our infamous catch phrase of like sticking and Atyfee and the active and hoping it doesn't die. R. There you go an youknow, grand I think ATP is less likely to die instantly now than it was then, but I think the flip side of that islike there's still a there's, some now guaranteed gust with bosses orders,which was basically lacking besides great catcher. Before you have a lot of sniping now you havetragopole and the Damn jobput becomes less relevant because you're, eitherdealing with very squushy decks that you'll want shot anyway or very ankydeck that you wont one Shot Anyway. Yeah the I mean it's just it's really avery cool case study in pice trading, where the Satian deck you're right.There are decks that you know. Pekarom is a great example. It doesn't wantshout a Peekaron, but it doesn't necessarily need to because the waythat Pekram is constructed, it really relies on having the support pokemonlike Todenna and like the and like the zero aura right to just facilitatetheir strategy, and so you could literally win in two turns against thatdeck. Most of the time you know, assuming that they play a Dadenana orTudadene and a zero Ora, and you know whatever combination there. You couldliterally win the game without ever attacking into their main attackers,and that to me is just the you know: it's it's a massive strengthof the deck. It's a massive strength of the deck where you can just you canscoot around whatever they're trying to set up and then the other thing too islike you look at besephelon. Well, you have the perfect counter to aBllaseplan deck with your Tapuphini. That does exactly the same thing andthen you're forcing them to hit into a one prizor, thereby forcing them takeseven prizes and that's more than enough time to get all your step set up.And then you look at a deck like Spiritum, same kind of idea. Of courseyou struggle a little bit more because they do have that one chop potentialand then drag apall. I mean you're just trading, you know you're trading, two shots, butyour two shot gives you four prizes and ther two shot gives you two right, and so it's just a veryinteresting case study like I said in that prizetrading and kind of setting your board position so that you can take advantageof the just poke mon that you're POINA has out. It doesn't evn have to betheir main attacker like just sniping their bench for two prizes or threeprizes, whatever you can go around their main strategy, entirelly andstill win the game which is wild yeah and I would say even taking thatfurther, like against deck such a...

...speaker on the price. STRADE works outin such a way where you can actually afford to to shot one of the tag teams,because t en once you get that one shot on the Dedena for the extra prize,that's still game, you know and that's three attacks where Pekrom, basically,it's impossible for Pikaram to Oco you three times and so right. You have thatadvantage where you can tank one hit from Pikarom Kao, the Pikaram or youknow, were take the hit whetever in that process. That is, and then Kaowon' support pokmine. So it's just. It builds up a lot of really interestingscenarios and I think that's a that's a cool way to phrase it. It's like it'san interesting case study into how price trade factors into like a dexviability, and so I definitely recommend picking this teck up. It'svery strong. It has solidified itself as one of the best exs in the format ifBBS teck in the format- and it's Super Fun to play and I'll even say this, Ithink it's a good DAC to learn the game on, because it teaches you a lot aboutseeconsideingan about price strat and you Knowsu, and one of te there PAYeahn. One of the things that I've been seeing to on the ladder is just that apeople don't know how to play and be people don't know how to play againstit. I think those are both. Very very you know, just important things to knowlike resource confen. Servation is very important with the deck right. If youonly have one scoop up net left, you really need to decide. You know whatyou're going to use it on. Assuming you know it's various factors. If you endup discarding a Mr Mime early, which is very reasonable to do, then, maybe youhave to scoop up your mind that you had already played down or something likethis. I mean there's just a lot of little intricacies to the deck that are very cool, that I think a lot ofplayers would miss on the first goround and that I've definitely seen playersmiss on the first girlround when I've been playing them on e TLE ladder, soreally interesting deck. I think moving on to some of the other decks that werevery viable, Pikaram Belasephelon was somewhat viable and I think dragon pultwas just a very strong choice for the metagame. We also saw a an ultimate Mutu by piloted by Ilia,Kornilov get sixth place, which was pretty wild and then a deck that I'm not very excited about,but did perform fairly well as the Spiri Tom Deck. I was not reallyexcited about the Dragon Pole match op and just kind of the the one prizingness and there's I'm inconsistencies, there's afew reason that I don't Love Dragon Pou or Spiri Tom, but it did pretty welloverall on the day theyre and qualifier for yeah. I think, and a lot of thesedecks are ones that we discussed and you can check back on some of ourrecent episodes to see our more indepth opinion on these. I think the onlything that really sticks out to me is something maybe worth calling out is the the crushing hammers build Daggopulkind of moving into the spotlight as thei fremier way to play the deck asksomeone tw who plays a lot of dragon pole and is very fond of the deck? Whatare your thoughts on this build? Well, that was what I was going to playheading into the evening like after I had finished stream, and I had to tryto make this choice between well. Do I play both sefleonor doply Draga Paul. Iwas really leaning towards dragopult and just thinking that the crushinghammers were very viable, particularly for the Mirror, I would say that's themost important matchup that you need the hammers for, but also against ADP.You know if, if you ever face that deck and then it does have some pretty solidviability against the Zation d right yeah, and so I and I guess some limited use inPigaron, but they just accelerate and get energy back in a pretty insane way,but yeah. It was really important, I think,for the deck, because you just need to slow your opponents down to your speed.If you can do that, then you have a pretty solid chance and that's why Ithink the stamp plant Combo, like we were talking about last week, is verystrong for the deck just because at the late game you know you've already fedthem a few prizes, probably at this point. But if you can stanp plant theminto the right hand or theyre wrong, and then you can usually overcome themwith picking off their pivots and just hitting into their mainattacker yeahyeah. Definitely it was, it was cool to see that build, see. Success, K Tron,obviously played the ZAMASENTAV which are out of the loop on a that was calwas a joke. It was a bat amongst his friends. So if you see that and wonderwhy it's there, it's not some mysterious like mirror tack or anythinglike that. It is just a joke. Cool Yeah. I think lelest. Thank you somuch for these events. These were awesome. I really hope that we get to see moreevents on this scale going into the future in Pokemon. Evenwhen events start happening again in...

...real life, I would love to see morestuff like this yeah, and I think there have been a lot of grass rootstournaments that have popped up as the limitlests has kind of proven itself towork and that there would be interest in online tournaments. I think we'restarting to see as well or consistently have been seeing over the last month,just these other grassorts tournaments that are drawing pretty viable crowdsfor people that just want to play the game more, and so that's reallyexciting and encouraging that our game is. I don't know if I mean yeah, you knowwhat, let's just say. Our Name is thriving even in this covid nineteencrisis and that's very very encouraging to see it really is. It really is, andso I think that's a great Sega then into our next topic, which is theplayer scut. I know, there's been a lot of swirlaround the Players Cup and you know whatit represents- and we talked aboutthis lately last week- and you know the systems that go into play here, yeah.So I think, let's start at the highest level, as Lorle recently posted a video goingover some of his grievances with the Players Cup, and I think it resonatedwith a lot of people as far as the points that he was trying to drive homeand I think since then, there's even been more things. Thate come up. The first one being the ticketthreshold- and this is something that we talked about just last week and wewished it didn't work out the way that it did yeah. Well, I was hopeful you know. Iwas looking at some of the other things that have happened in onlinetournaments or even happen within the umbrella of Pokmon as a whole, and Iwas saying: Okay Pokemon trading card game has historically been pretty latewith their information. I would say that no one would really disagree thatthey kind of tend to either parcel out things or wait untilyou know very late in the game to announce big changes or big updates, orthings like this, and so I was last week very hopeful that something wouldcome out or that the system would just be updated without us. Knowing where Iwould say, okay, you can participate in. You Know X, number of tournaments a day.That's all you get, you know, maybe put a cap on it, and then everyone gets.You know free entry or you know their ten tickets a day or whatever it ismaking it so that the playing field is even for everyone. Obviously thatdidn't happen, and it's now we're trying to figure out where to we go andwhat is this tournament even mean? If not, everyone has an equal chance toparticipate it an, I think, like you said, as Oul did a very nice job I I'll Beit a bit harsh for my taste butd. He did a nice job of kind of crystallizing and formulating a lot ofthe opinions that a lot of players had, and I think since his videos come out,I feel like there has been a stronger emotional discussion about what itmeans to play an event like this, and it's I I mean it's Misse the mark now thatwe know the full extent. It's definitely missed the mark of wheretournament like this should be and could be yeah so to go over kind of what thatlooks like for the viewers who might not be necessarily in the loop as faras the players cove pokemon is going to be compiling thetop xamount of players for region in America is the top two fifty six ontournament rap, which is a relatively arbitrary score, based on yourperformance in tcg online tournaments. Just those little events that you getthrough the event tab when you hit play and the flaw of this comes in how youenter those tournaments in the first place, the tournaments give tradablepactsas prizes, and so your entry is gated to those tournaments, becauseit's kind of your way to recoup like real real pacts, as opposed to likestorebout ones in the game. So there's a huge incentive to play in them win anew set release right and so your incentivized to play in them. Butteryour entry is limited. You know by those tickets that you get and ticketsare relatively hard to get atleas compared to some of the otherresources. You might get in the game like coins, it take cost actually eat tickets toenter a tournament which is a substantial amount and to actually climb this leader board,because it's only based on your total number of entries for the most part, even if you lose immediately in thetournament you get tournament rapped. The old system of ranking is basicallybased on how many tournaments you play...

...and granted o you accelerate your climbthrough the leader board by performing well, but you could have you know youcould djust as effectively if you have eight times as many tickets, justimmediately drop out of every single tournament and get as many as people who did first inyou know that many tournaments as well I so the hole system is just kind ofmessed up. It's very much gated, because a lot of players have expendedtheir tickets, doing just normal ingame activity with no prior knowledge. Iyou know JW and other streamers liketo participate in tournaments as well, just as it means to connect with theirviewers. I myself like to use the tournaments asit means to get new packs. I actually do have a decent stockbile right now,but that's besides the point: Caleb gettimer participate in a ton oftournaments to use like six hundred tickets s that way he could acquirelike legacy collection stuff, which is like a Nich format and Tcgo. It's justit's tough, it's tough yeah and I yeah I so there's not like a great path tofixing it from here either, because now we're deep enough in you know, grantit's only couple days but we're in the midst of it now, and so you can't justchange the rules now right. That's the biggest issue is thatI just I wonder if, if anything would have been said, if it would havechanged it, because I think now we're seeing that a lot of opinions arecoming out and a lot of people are very openly saying that they despise the waythat the tournament is being run right now, and I wonder if you know probably not probably not, butI wonder if you know more harsher criticism was said that things mighthave been different, although I think there was, I mean I I think there wasenough warning right. I think there was enough warning coming from you know thethe higher ups in the content creation game to kind of, say: Whoa Theyre, youknow poke Mon. Maybe this should be thought out a little bit differently.You know here's some ideas that you can take from us as to what we'd like tosee. But you know it didn't happen. I think a lot of people are going to beupset and there's just going to be a lot of gatekeeping. Like you said, it'sjust sad for a company that does, you know, promote this inclusivity and thiskind of togetherness. You know we're Allin this together that people, just literally there are manymany many top ter players that willwill have no prayer to make it intothis. You know tournament, this. The hope I what I would hope that they viewis prestigious. They just have no way to get in yeah and even digging deeperinto it. People were looking at the systems thatare used on these leader boards and there's a huge amount of country isthat are just excluded from being able to participate in this leader board,particularly in the Oceania regions. O countris such as you know, Malaysia andSingapore just aren't on the leader boards andthey are specifically excluded, and you know granted. My interpretation of thatis, it probably has something to do with, like you know, online gaming lawsor restrictions- I don't know for sure, but the fact of the matter is you know,even even if someone in Malaysia had infinite time to acquire all thetickets in the world, you know they started from zero tickets, but justgrinded their way into a million of them. They still couldn't make it intothe tournament that matter what they did. It's a it's absurd. You know it's tough and itmakes it demoralizing the play because, like there's, obviously a great rewardon the line with the travel rward, that's basically the most prestigiousaward that you can get in Pokemon as far as like getting those type ens toevents, and not just the stypeen but the full trip sure. And but what's the point like what is theactual competitive value of this tournament? If, if t nooceteers playingyeah it'll be very interesting to see howthis progresses, but like we said, the competitive player base is reallysoured on the tournament as a whole, and I I'm generally not going to be asnegative as some and and not I mean, and that's I hope, that's not feelinglike people are being thrown ut of the bus when I say that negative, but Imean I just generally like to think that pokemon. I want to hope that there was somereason that it came out like this. I want to hope that there was somethingthat prevented them from doing it another way or from implementing thesystems that they needed to. I appreciate the idea and the concept Ireally do. I think that in all of this,...

...that aspect is being undercut a littlebit by kind of the missteps that have been made, but I do really appreciatePokemon for putting this event on. I wish it was different yeah and goingback to your points about the underlying concepts. I think you'reright, like having an online tournament, is a fantastic idea and we've seen itdone to great success just in the last month. You know so where's. The disconnect, I think itlives in Pokemon, is using an outdated structureon their client. This is something you've covered and it feels like adozen episodes. Now, at least a half doesn't you know, the TGO client needs somerevamping they're sticking themselves in this system that just isn'tcompatible with the modern structure of how a trading card game should look onn online client and it it's ultimately limiting them longterm. I think so I think so it would be. Idon't know if there's any way we could study this, but just it would beinteresting to know kind of the retention rate of players in this timebecause they had just you know. You never want to say that with this, thiscrisis, this this health crisis, that it would be a golden opportunity forfor improvement, but it does feel that way in a sense. I just wonder how many more people could have beeninvolved with the game and how many more like new faces. We maybe couldhave engaged through this online series that maybe transition over into in reallife playing that we just never would have known about before. I do thinkthat there are going to be those people that we just have never heard aboutbefore and they're going to show up a top. You know in the top for rightbecause they're good players and they had a ton of tournament tickets, butthey never went to like a regionals or anything like that. They never playedcards in real life. They just always playd the ladder. I think we're goingto find some of those people out there thatw'll be kind of interesting. Youknow, I'm personally excited to you know, see those people thatd be kind offunny. If you know some personally've literally never heard of just wins. Thewhole thing o be pretty interesting and kind of cool,and you know certainly would be a story but yeah, it's just a few, a few little missteps thatI think are preventing us from really truly graspming ont to it as acommunity and taking it for for the successful woventet it couldhave been right, and so what I hope is the takeaway from this both for thelisteners and Pokmon company is that you know we have online tournaments aresomething that we can do and that the community clearly desires, and I thinkthat expands beyond our world health crisis. I think online structuredevents would be something that would get a lot of attention, regardless ofif people were selfquarantining. I have truly believe that, and so how can we has a not only as acommunity, but you know how can pokemon take a look at what has been done,reflect on that and build upon it in the future and maybe for Pokemon. Thatinvolves like an actual structure being put in place on their client, and you know if theyre hesitant to you know,run a large scale tournament without the structuring place on the client.That's just something that needs to happen on TAT's Rodblock that they needto overcome, but regardless, like what steps need tobe taken to move into actual competitive online realm, and you knowto me that that looks like having a rank flatder that looks like havingactual tournaments that you can build out and run inside the client, and Ihope that this is the wakeup call that this is something the commuiy reallywants, and would you know, and not just as something that we're interested in,but would certainly make pokemout lots of money, because certainly more peoplewill be interested in participating in the online clut? That's right. I meanthere are ways to do it. I mean I just look at with all my time that I'veinvested in Pokemongo and just to say like how cool would it be to Heavan inat purchase area. I know that. Wouldn't that also would not be the way I wouldwant to go with it, but just to provide an example of a case where you knowthey have an inat purchase system that clearly, you know, transcends like the productthat they're putting out like it's clearly bigger makes them just just alot of money there and how cool it I be to have something like that in our gameand how cool would it be to have just these other systems that pokemonisimplemented throughout their branding throughout their umbrella and hopefully we'll get that I mean we'vebeen praying thing for this years. I played this game for ten years and I amstill waiting for some of these.

They seem like the minors thing imbleeding with Poka. Please help us as players help us as content creators. I have still faith. I still have faith,I believe in you Hokemon, I believe in you. I believe you want to help us. Ibelieve you love us, but every year that just feels like one thing afterthe other, you know I can just go back through the years. I oail, then this is the latest example, but I stilllove Pokmon. Really I still love the company, still love everything I just I just wish it was a little better.Yeah, no agree man. I I've been a little lessinterested in tcgo lately compared to normal, and I feel like if there wasjust a rank ladder that I could grin and see myself at the top of the way Iwould be playing so much. It would be insane. I would be so hype about thatyeah. It's just play that not stop yeah IUS Pe Li all day. Thet would just beso fun if I could see that I was better than you right. Actually, though, rightlike able to clime is such a a fun experience. That's what that's at thecore of what makes so many of these online games so successful right. IsThey not even the online games? Bro, like look at the look at the thehandheld game, like the Gameboy game, Bro like you're, trying to be the champ,that's the whole driving steryline of every Okeman game, like you can'tfinish a game unless you're the champ. So please so true give us that so true,I don't I feel like. We cannot possibly emphasize enough how much we want tosee the online experience or Fokmen trading card game be better. It's something! I'm certainly passionatabout GES fashiond Ahow. I think all content creators are probablypassionate about this because it's literally a huge Fascet of our lives.This is playing this game. So there's some chaos going on and I thinkOh yeah, I don't know somebody. Somebody just did something crazy. Idon't know, but you know we still love the game, but we wouldlove to see it be better and love it more. Yeah, yeah Weye, exactly that's! Wellput. We love the game. You know great game, mechanics wise for sure. Generally, you know we're just we're happy that theyre HAL TI thatoiivAddi likeihappy, that there's Somethinha cubut always going to beways for improvement, and I think that just holds thrue just generallyspeaking, like in my personal life, like I'm happy where I'm at I canalways be better and so yeah hoping that that it gets better andhoping that we can just have these dialogues, and maybe someone willlisten, and maybe we will get the change that we would like to seeabsolutely so, I think we've covered a huge Ri, O opic stacked about decks.We've talked about the players cop and its flaws. Personally, I think you can kind ofjust play whatever you want. If you're in the Players Cup just have fun withit, I think it's more about the quantitiesand the quality of the events that you play in. So if I had to make any recommendation, Iwould just say pick a deck that can win relatively quickly: Andyeah STU OAthere Yo. So that's all! That's really! All Ihave as far as recommendations we ould love to open the floor to you all. Ifyou have a couple questions that you'd like to pose before you wrap up for theday, I think there's a lot of interestingdiscussion that we had so far and if anyone wants to expand on any of that,wed love chat to call some of that out. Petsukan was talking about when I wasdiscussing pekram about adding anything for the blonds matchup or just take itas a rough matchup and yeah. I was playing a few games the night beforequarter, four with Antrew Mahon, and we were playing the blouns against Pikranmatchup and it just felt almost as as irredeemable of a matchup as one couldface, and I mean the closest thing you could come to a tech for that. matchipthat has been played in the past is like an APSOL, but that doesn't quitework. If the Blicephalon player doesn't play, Scoo doesn't play the escateboardinstead just play scoop of nets, which I think a lot have trended towards now,and so that just completely nullifies the apsalt play and then, if they playI you know, and then the blondes can just hard tech for Pikaron by justplaying a mew and then that just really insures the victory I mean you can doother things. I suppose like multiple phenes,...

...multiple Tapoo Phini, but even at thatpoint like all they really need, is one great catcher I feel like, and they canswing the prize trade. So it's definitely a rough match. If you reallyjust have to hope that they did draw for that, one yeah for sure dmmer back says w love to hear yourthoughts on the bdfand. Why you think that is well? What do you think Riley?I think there's a couple decks that are clearly more powerful than the rest. I think the Zashin Combo deck. I don'twant to necessarily say it's the VDAF in such a way, that's like clearlybetter than every other deck, but I think that deck is insane. Iwould put it put that deck pikrom and maybe vagapholin like that one tier of the bast steks. I think JW might lean a little moretowards Josha and be like the actual best, I'm a little more innebulous on mychoice right now, hm yeah. I definitely think that the Zashincambo deck fromjust what I've seen a bit from the Limili pafire and theneverything that I've played with it. It's just felt very consistent. I meanI think we talked about last week, the intantioals of a deck like Dragonpolt,and I think Zahian has those intangibles as well. Just the things of being able to accelerate the prize trade. You know you only need twoturns to win against certain decks, which is just kind of wild like youonly need to attacks to win if they drop Intodenni and they have a you knowa v or something that you can kill, or you know whatever it is like. You onlyneed to turns that's insane. It has that kind of raw draw power. That'sreally nice to see that you know obviously ATP ation decks had in thepast. But just is you know, kind of almost amplified more here in this case, and it just has exact numbers oncertain things. You know has enough damage enough numbers for the rightprice that it all works together in harmony to form. This really reallystrong. I wouldn't say that it's that it's you know headed shoulders above the way that ATPwas in past formats, but I would say that it is tstere deck. That is it's in my opinion. You know verydifficult to counter unless you're playing a straight firedeck orsomething like obstagoon, which are just like bad against a lot ofeverything of other things and only really good against that one deck. Andthen those can be countered. Two by you know, metal, frying, pan and thingslike that. But you know it's just so impossible tocounter from my perspective and then Pekeram, Bulla, Sephelon and Dragapollkind of Occupi that tier one Meta game that you know have a decent shotagainst the Satian deck, but are all kind of struggling with. You know eachother ind the tears lower to you know to succeed in a tournament forsure yeah. I think it's a a great way to put it cashma asking UF, there's anypoint of going the APS austion route when the Sasha DRACI has been proven soeffective. I think we touched on this a lot earlier. Ithink, to delve into more specifics. The jrashi route is just so streamlindand consistent and more aggressive, and I think that's going to benefit it morein this metod than the ADPF necessarily will. The only case I could see likeATP really serving You well is, if you're in, like you to heavy medaws orsomething where you know getting that twod, seventy will just win you, thegame. Sure sure I mean just think about theprize exchanges, though with ATP you have to wait for turns, I meansometimes you can get an energy switch like Cambo off, but with ATP generally,traditionally, you know you're waiting for terms right. You have your firsttern attachment. Your second turn attachment in attack and thenpresumably two attacks finish the game, but sometimes that gets really awkwardif they have a one price oftackord. On average, you know you're spending likefour terns and then potentially more depending on what you're poining tobring up yeah, but then, with this Atian deck you have like. I said that that tot you could,you could literally win the game in two attacks to Turens yeah, two tarns rightto turns, and so that is just where that that differs right. The two dexs differin that one. It is very consistent with that four term clock, but the other onehas the potential to do it in two turns what Egty people do infor right, rightand thepoint that I would just keep coming back to is like the what made ATP really work. Was itcleaned up the math on the tag teams and that isn't as necessary in thecurrent metagame yeah? And that's a good point too you're looking at themetagame right now and the vmaxes are just out of range ATP or not they're, just out of range,so that makes that math kind of negligible. You have things likePikarom, which that's maybe your one,...

...and where you wish that you had an ATPattack but and not super necessary because they play those their ors andthose dedenes on the bench, thereby making it. So you can gust around theirmain attacker and then you have the rise of the NONGIA eteckers. So thingslike spiritune things like blisephlon, really kind of round out the upper tierdecks viable decks in this format, and so those are just it. You know you'reone shouting them with a very average amount of damage anyway, that you getby with having the totw and actually, I would say, against those deck, it'sprobably better to have the Combo, because yourenot going to have to spendtwo turns preparing, which is exactly what the one prize Dex one right right,because I also sometimes need those extra turns to prepare, especially likebaby te Cepelon. I like, if against Babiy stuff fiing particular you have apretty clear route where you can Combo twice and then Chao Oricorio and he winand that's as faster faster than they can win the game right. We got a Steven TES, hey guys, I'vebeen lorking in the background, while cleaning dishes. Well, I'm glad you area very sanitary man, Stephen just wondering, if either of you can giveany hope to stage to's becoming more viable. Any time soon played somemyself recently and while as o fun, they just get bodied and, I would saythe viable Stateyhou right now is obstagon. I don't see that ther beingtoo many others. I think there are some road concepts things like dust stocks I mean dusttox is a stageto that has very very limited viability, but just there aren't enough stageshoes that can achieve any sort of like massive pressure on the opponent. Youcould look to something like a Chandalur deck, but unfortunately,again you're plagued by these inconsistency issues in the stage to, and so obstagun only really works, because itputs on such a hard lock against certain decks that that justimmediately makes a viable and then yeah I haven't. I haven'treally seen many stage tos work out that well we have grim snarl in thechat here. Things like dragohults, the non vmaxI've seen on the ladder doesn't really feel that great but Riley. Maybe youhave more thoughts on stage tos think stage. Toos are in a honestly apretty bad spot right now, there's just like not a not of Tinegoing for them right like they. They have kind of low HP. Honestly theyrrelatively will have expensive attack costs and are hard to set up. It's unfortunate, I think, the mostrecent time when Stage Tues had any sort of metagane presence was eitherlike in the nine tails, decks and lost thunder or in you know, the early SunanMoon days when you have like Guardof, orgx and decidual igx running the show, I think, without giving stage tos likean equalizer and power level, and I think obstgon is probably the closestthing to that, where it like hard, lock, tecks withhout, getting at somethinglike that, the stage choos. Unfortunately, I just don't think ourar viable it the way that the games currently built ind play yeah. It's unfortunate, I think, with thelevel of effort it takes to get out of stage to you have to really be able tobreak the game when you get it out yeah, it has to do something very strong for it to matter, and so when will theybe viable? I mean we are looking ahead to you know at some point in the future,like a rotation where we will lose a significant amount of these. You know just insanely strong basic attackers,and so perhaps, as the format shifts more towards these vmaxes, that alsoare evolutions that also afford your deck. You know a turn or two to set upas well. Maybe then the stage tos will be more viable right and I thinkpokemon you know I think, generally basics will always be the resoundingdecks, with the way that you know the game is built right now and likedesigned, I think pokmon tends to shift around.You know our stage ones viable at attacking options are stage tos, evenplayable yeah. I think we're kind of an an eraright now or stage ones are, are like the premiere or what they pokamon isgearing towards being thif. Fren Ier Way to play like Tagteanes, weredefinitely a move towards basics. VMAXES are moved towards stage, one askthings yeah and I mean May, and it might be some grand. You know strategythat we just don't quite know yet, because I mean we are seeing very, veryviable evolutions in the form of Vemaxs,...

...and so it might be something wherewe've gone from this basic Meta. To this you know potential stage, one Metato potentially you know a stage to focus metagame in just the card designthat I'm not. You know. I have no inside information on this, but justyou know you kind of look historically, it's like the vmaxes will take over atsome point. You know they're already almost arguably taken over at thispoint and the form of Drago Bolt D, maxjerst being a very high ter deck,and so you know just looking into the future. I would expect things to comeback around because we've had in the past. You know where stage tos werelike almost the only dex that you could play and then moving into a basic medonand so on and so forth with like SPS, I would say it was the real kind ofturning point where it was stage tos and Gardenbor Gallad against the SPstuff, and then you know moving on from that and now it's basic and then westage ones so then, maybe in the future stage to so hoping that they come backyeah, I would love to see stage. Tos have have their next aday. I think theydeserve it to me to me like the stage one and twosare more representative, I guess of likewhat Pokemon is than just having big basics ram at each other. You knowcause like evolution, man, it's like it's talk about, that's tright right, so sure you knowufortunately, you don't have a hand in the designer pool to be able to saythat not yet not yet yeawell everyone. This has been an awesome episode. Thankyou all so much for listening. We really appreciate every single one ofyou be sure to check out some of the movements that we will be linking inthe description of the podcast and the Youtube video s. That way you cancontinue to contribute in positive wavs to our communities. Thank you so mucheveryone and we'll see you next time. Pease. Do You.

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