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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 6 · 2 years ago

2-5. Health over Pokemon

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys discuss the effects of COVID-19 on organized play. Strong recommendations against attending large events. To all the listeners: stay safe and healthy.

All right, what is up everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON Trading Card Games Premiere podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert and I'm joined by my good and Harry friend JW Crew Wall Jw, how you doing today? I'm very hairy. You are your hairs for the people are listening. His hairs exploding in many directions at the moment as well. I can finally really attained by a headhand put it. I can finally put it in a Bun. I mean it's not a big Bun. This has been it is used of Laura and I have cast. I feel like I know this is what I've been working towards for the last what would you say, Riley? Five months? Something like it is like right after. is either right before right after. Rohno, right, that's a probably about right. So I guess four months. So this is this is pretty good. Yeah, it's finally coming around and it's really filling out. You know, it's kind of I feel like I'm kind of just starting to reach like the puberty stage of my hair. Yeah, of my man Bun, where it's just kind of things are getting bigger. You know, it's noticeable? Yeah, definitely. There's definitely a difference even from like a month ago. So yeah, Nice. I mean, Hey, you know, soon we'll have some flowing locks that will rival even Fabio. Even Fabio. That's a that's a tall order, man. But honestly, we always say you gotta set your goals high, you know, you gotta for the top. Right are you're never going to get anywhere. So I'm for it. I'm for it for sure. Anything else for going on in the world? JW. Well, I was supposed to have a gig tonight, so I was thinking that we would have to record the podcast a little later. Turns out things are growing crazy in the world right now and it was canceled, and so here I am. Yeah, and I know will have plenty to say about that. For sure. Absolutely are. You know, honestly, I feel like this everything is going to eventually lead to that point, so we might just all just start right we got to talk about covid nineteen and it's an effect up Pokemon, because this is crazy. We're intended talk about this last week even, and it just we did get chances. You're interviewing Gean, but this is really blowing up and the just the fasketball days. Well, and it's just like and you know, we're laughing about it, but I feel like that's like the only response that I can even write. It's not even laughing because it's funny, it's just like it was laughing wild. It's so on say any else that I've experienced ever. And my wife is trying to say, like well, do you remember SARS or like n One? But I was like significantly younger back then. I still don't remember just things getting canceled, like the NBA just never got canceled. Right for saws, you know that just I mean insiders, what end one? I felt like, what's not that big of a deal, you know, in the end, yeah, that's too that too. It's just really it's scary, it's interesting, it's unique, it's just kind of wild and I'm very shocked that we're seeing this massive response. I mean, I hope that it's kind of an over kill, right. I hope that that it's actually not just insanely widespread, but just that all these, you know, colleges and Sports Leagues and things like this are just taking extra precautionary measures right. But I don't know when we'll know, and it's it's hard to say because it has such a long incubation period and it clearly spreads quickly. It's a it's been wild, you know, like I mean, I work in the medical industry and so we kind of get our own perspective into this and we're developing software to keep up with the what's going on. But, for example, there's a huge medical conference that was supposed to happen this week and we had tons of people trying to get ready for it and just gets canceled like the day before. Yep and...

Yep, that's just the way things are right now. All sorts of hospitals that I work with are all like restricting their travel, like nobody can leave the area and they all have to work remote on their it teams. It's a it's been a wild ride for sure, and sure I think what really kicked off it, really setting in how crazy it was getting for me was, honestly, when you see got canceled, right and so right, because that's that's our bout right right. Yeah, you know, the other things, okay, whatever. You know, they're just, you know, maybe going a little off the deep end or or, you know, they don't you know, or maybe it's like in a different country, you know, it's a little closer to the epidemic or something like that. But but to have a major pokemon tournament canceled was, yeah, very eye opening to me as well. Right, and I mean now, in the past couple days we've had more things which were also serving that kind of purpose, like the NBA getting canceled for the season. That's pretty, I open. You know, like well, you haven't been canceled, it's been suspended, in the NBA's defense, but suspended indefinitely. So I could just be canceled. It's probably just canceled at this point. Still like, and again kind of echoing what you said, I hope. In my eye, it's not saying that I think it is, because I think we're doing the right things, but I hope that this ends up being an overreaction in the sense that I hope that things aren't as severe as they could be. I like, I don't want people getting hurt or dying and I'm glad that we're taking the measures. I would rather overshoot something like this than undershoot it. That's for exactly exactly I think we've seen a little bit of a miscalculation by maybe the highest up, you know, the government people, that could maybe have put preventive measures in place, you know, a month or two ago. And you know, obviously hindsight is two thousand and twenty, but you know, still having just testing kids and more affordable healthcare for this in particular. But then you look at the response from, you know, the colleges, you look at the response from the Performing Arts Sector, which I'm very heavily involved in, which is again just like canceling pretty much everything. My GIG got canceled. You know, a bunch of things from orchestras around the country have been canceled. So they're like very aware. And then Pokemon as well. I just hope that they do a little bit more. You know, we have some regionals that are coming up in Charlotte and Toronto and, to be honest, at this point I really really would suggest that they do not happen and if you are planning on going, or if you were planning on going, I would suggest that you do not go. I, and we were talking about this pretty extensively beforehand, I would agree we're getting to the point where things just need to be canceled, like, for Charlotte, is in the hotbed right now. It's not a great place to be, not to mention the organizers just got technically banned from entering the United States because the organizers are from Europe, so that's also a thing. Yeah, but regardless, I think. I think both of these regionals have recently announced a refund policy if they don't get formally canceled. I would take advantage of that. I really would recommend putting not only your own health, but you are no doubt surrounded by a lot of people who could potentially be impacted if you were a carrier for, you know, x amount of weeks, and so think of it as more. It doesn't necessarily have to be you if you're young and fit and likely to be okay from something like this. There are tons of people, even people who are like invisible to you, not necessarily because you don't notice them or they're not a part of your life, but they their immuno compromise aspect of their life might not be obvious on first sight. Right an obvious example that comes to mind that's relates her on personal lives. As our friend Otto. He's very fit young man but he is immuno compromised because he has chromeos disease and he takes bills that suppresses immune system. So he's kind of an adverse population. You would never guess that by looking at him. So...

...exactly. So I guess the point of driving home is like think about the people around you, be cognizant of that and just I would really recommend staying away from these large gatherings at this point in time. If we're seeing to the point where all these other things are being canceled, even in other card games like magic and you you have suspended everything and definitely like we got to take the same attitude, if it's not officially implemented, although I would not be surprised if we see a statement in the next week from pokemon. Right. I would. I would agree with that. It's just it's interesting too, because normally I would be a little bit more like, you know, it's not that big of a deal, or like you know, we can, we can still have this and as long as we take precautionary measures. But just the fact that all these other places have canceled, like I trust that, but I really trust for the NBA to say that you know, probably arguably the best American Sports League right now, you know, at least in terms of trajectory. Maybe not, you know, earnings as much as the national football league, but in you know, they've been on a huge upward true directory for the last couple decades. And for them to just say, like, you know what, we're forging all profits, you know, to have these big companies just say, you know what, no, this is more important. Like that to me. I trust that a lot when a company can say I value a person over a prod. Yeah, definitely. I mean we're to the point where medical conferences are being canceled when that's exactly the kind of thing you would want to discuss. These kinds of happening. So if that's any education, I don't know what is. Also, we just lost an entire country, basically like it at least just gone effectively from planet earth for the time being. Yeah, yeah, it's blacked out. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that was that was pretty sobering to to hear that. Maybe what a week ago where they were just like suspending pretty much all non essential operations, and now even more restrictive right they've reshected today to only banks grocery stores and pharmaceutical companies. Everything else is closed, like Ivan, come on, like we're dealing with something serious for sure. So again, our recommendation is snaps, go to events and any Meta discussion that we have is just for your own personal tcg o enjoyment at the moment, as we really want to stick to our guns on this, I personally want be going on events right now. I'm sure dwys the same. Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about going to cut this weekend. And even then, I mean it's kind of tough too, because you don't want to let something like this turn into so much of a panic that that your entire life is just, you know zero, like your flatlining from doing anything and you're like scared to you know, breathe. Like that's that's a little excessive. So, like, I think you could get away with local events. But even that said, like I I am not going to local cups, you know, I am not gonna be the one that could potentially, I don't know, be that carrier, be that that harm right for Yall. So, you know, you kind of have to weigh your way. You're pros and cons a little bit. I think locally, you can kind of get away with, you know, meeting up with your friends, obviously, you know, doing small event gatherings, but a thing as large as a regional, so you just you just never know, and I would I would stay away from something like that. Yeah, I mean to be honest, and I'm going to get a little critical here. The Charlotte regional. Now, this granted, this was before the travel band for Europe into the United States. They release a statement earlier today that I thought was, frankly, just kind of irresponsible about the regional still being going on. And the reason I say that is it just kind of read like, you know, if you're sick, just don't come, like please, don't come. We at we ask you pretty please. It's just like, you know, you see you're it's kind of like acknowledging there's a problem but ref using to do anything about it. You know. Well, they had laid out, you know,...

...so at the point they laid out there's going to be hand sanitizer and they'll have like their staff will be trained. But like, this isn't meant to be rude, but like judges make mistakes, even just with pokemon cards, you know. And now we're also putting the owners of responsibility with onto them for like managing a pandemic outbreak like that's that's not fair to the judges or the players, you know, and I think in their defense, in their defense, I don't know if it was categorized as a pandemic, because I believe that was done today, so they had a hold of it. I don't know. I'm just saying I'm not I'm not, you know, defending necessarily. I'm just providing more you know why? See, you know why the TEO or why the head organizer would you know why they would release a statement like that? You know, because if you if you don't have these kind of official measures taken, then I think it can be pretty easy like it's a little bit overblown. And if you don't see the the I don't know, carnage, if you don't see the effects, you know, in your home country, then it's going to be like, all right, think things are going to blow over, it's not really that big of a deal. But now that it is, you know, classified as a pandemic by the World Health Organization, that that's just a really big step and I hope pokemon follows, follow step with a lot of these other organization and cancels their tournaments. I mean, the president's definitely been set with other card games. So and I you know, if you gets to the point where you US canceling tournaments, the most money grubbing of them all, I think they think we're good man. I think it's good to call it quits for so then I think we have to talk about like one of the consequences of this, you know, and this was something I was initially thinking of, when you I see got canceled. You know, like that is the big tournament in Europe. A lot of our listeners are from North America, but we have a lot that are also from in Australia, Europe, South America, and so you know, losing your I see is a big deal. Like that is where a large amount of your entire regions points will come from. If you think about it, for the NA listeners, every year we have a huge amount of people who put their invite onto an a see saying I need to get a top six, top one hundred and twenty eight x amount at an I see to actually get my invite for worlds this year and a lot of them that's how they get their invite. You know, it's very, very common for people to just clean up that last eighty points to an. I see absolutely, and I think it would be on a fairly large order of magnitude to that that would happen. So then, sure, you know, this is completely ignoring any discussions of like what would happen any I see though. What do we think pokemon should do about Europe under the assumption that world still happens? Yeah, I mean this is again, this is all just saying that, okay, we're controlling the virus. We understand the implications of canceling these events and kind of keeping people away from large gatherings and just saying, okay, we'll have the virus under control until we can get, you know, the testing supplies, the doctors necessary, the hospitals ready to go, etcetera, etc. So that world's can happen. So, okay, assuming all that is taken care of, right, I mean, they'll have the lower the CP requirement. You know, it kind of feels a little like to me I'm saying this out loud and it feels a little stupid to say just because of how how much this is gone from like zero to a hundred in America. But it's you know, yeah, they'll have to lower the CEP requirement. They'll have to maybe potentially add like a tournament or two spe type event where you know, they can position them strategically, where you know, people could get to them and Garner a few more points that they would otherwise need. Yeah, I think that's kind of the situation where, and although I will say like finding a stuff planning something like a IC, and I mean I see like a special event out or even...

...a regional that's a lot of effort and manpower that's to go into that, a lot of planning ahead of time, you know, just to secure these venues. Is something that has to have in a while out. So then I think another question that could potentially be interesting is what is the metric there? You know, what is a fair amount to award back to the players in the event of something like an IC being canceled? I mean, it's tough. I think you would probably the biggest thing would probably just be to lower the the CP bar. So if you're saying that, you know per quarter, you know you expect turn x amount of CP and then if you have lost what this is quarter three now. So if you lose a quarter, then you lower the CP by that amount. I mean that would be probably the first way to go. The other thing that you could maybe do in terms of adding new tournaments that wouldn't quite be the manpower necessary to add like another regional RSPE, would be to potentially add more local tournaments. And I know that's not the best answer, but if you gave every store, you know a cap of, I don't know, two cups or three cups even in the work for then maybe that can assuage some of the difficulty that people have in occurring their points. I I kind of agree. Those are all things I've kind of thought about. I think for Europe, probably lowering about fifty ish CP would be appropriate as it stands currently. If thinks continue to get canceled, that would needs to be looked at further. I think you're kind of right. You kind of have to judge it. If you lose a large portion of a quarter, that would translate to how much CP should probably get like back to you. So yeah, I think like on average you probably have about fifty in Europe that you would need to account for, assuming nothing else really happens. If more stuff continues to happen, we be looking more like a hundred or even more than that potentially. Sure, and it really just depends on the scope of things that happen. Sure. The only problem is, like also, quarter four is very short typically, and so if it gets to the point where we're good to go and quarter for we only have so much time to make up, I mean, and it's and it's not going to be fair, right, and there's not. There's no fair solution. I guess. You know, there's no perfect there's no perfect solution in like you know. And then it doesn't even take into the fact that, like, maybe people plan their whole season around having, you know, quarter three open in Europe, right, and they're saying, okay, I'm going to go to Malmo, I'm going to go to the European championships and I'm going to just grind, I'm going to start from nothing and then go to invite then. So, like it's not going to be fair, right, you just have to cancel things and and that's very unfortunate, but it's just a reality of the situation. Yeah, I think that's kind of the unfortunate truth is there's no perfect solution to something completely out of our control right right it pokemon didn't decide for this to happen, they're just reacting to it and it's kind of where we are right now. My Hope, my sincere hope, is that things get to the point where we can still have a world championship and it includes as many people who would have otherwise gone as possible. But I guess that this all remains to be seen. Sure, yeah, absolutely so. We're twenty minutes in. We've talked out coronavirus for twenty minutes. COVID nineteen again. We'll say this one last time. Our recommendation is to not go to large events right now and we sincerely hope that pokemon listens to the world community at this point and postpones were cancels events as necessary. Particularly Toronto and Charlotte are the mediate ones on a radar, probably Salt Lake City as well. Yeah, shifting gears a little bit, I don't want to completely not talk about the mets because I am kind of enjoying where it is right now. I would restrict it to tcg oh.

That's where I'm playing right now and it's gram. It's great. Yeah, like tcg Oh is a great small place to be. That's right, GW. I know you also want to cut this last weekend with, yeah, ATP's option. I know it was so broken they canceled all events afterwards. That was just such a definitive win they had to stop the season. So a lot of you talk to us about that a little bit. Yeah, so I I played just a tag call version of ATP. I thought it was, you know, the best deck and I had been laboring a lot to try to find a deck that would win. I was I you know, before the weekend I was a hundred points basically away from the invites, and so I was just looking for, you know, ways to get those few finishes for Cups and just saying, okay, what's the best deck in the format? Let me just build that and and so I did. So I accrued the cards for for a tip's option and, you know, hen played a tournament in this format yet. So I was curious to see how it would go and ended up going pretty well. I just found throughout the day that I was significantly more consistent than my opponent and I'm happy that I built the ATP Zoshtion deck because from what we've been talking about on the cast for like the entirety of the last month, we've been saying it's the best second form. So that's a good really. Yeah, and and it's finally like broke through on the international level. Two, and I felt very validated, not only with my choice at the cup but just seeing toward and you know, his his teammates just do very, very well with it in Melmo. And so, you know, as just like of course, this deck is so busted, ended up playing a lot of mew two. There were three. Now I played to mew two decks in the finals and top four and ended up two owing both and I played a peak ram that I beat and I think my only loss on the day was to a mirror that I had to play at to Dennie down. And so, yeah, that's catch party gether or sometimes. And well, and then it was like I played at Annie down and I was like, okay, I win the game if he doesn't have great catcher that turn or a gust that turn, because he was a little bit behind. He had like missed a step at some point and as long as he doesn't have a catcher that turn, but he did it and then he was able to you know, steam roll it from there. So it was it was actually a really intense game because I was able to you know, he got the catcher and then so I'm like, okay, if I can just knock out his Zauscian, he only has the one built up with three energy on it. If I can knock that out, then he has to come up with another's ass and, you know, with two metal patches and, you know, and and return knockout for the win. And he ends up doing that, which was just insane. I like Marnie him and he's able to get as Asyan from nothing built, which is just I mean, that's a testament to how good the deck is. So that was my one loss. I ended up playing against in round, for I played against a Mewt Malamar, which was pretty tough. I think my opponent maybe made a few miss steps along the way. He used his Pale Moon gx hmm from which, yeah, Trevnor, which was I think, just a mistake. I think he wanted to earlier use clear vision or, you know, maybe just disrupt my hand at that's good. The matchup for sure instead of using the GX attack, but he ended up doing that. So I think maybe just not. He is a little bit of a newer players, I think, just maybe not as familiar with how the matchup would go. But squeaked away with that one and finished it out, obviously, in top eight, with a win against a Czarard a charzard green's deck, which is very stressful, I gotta say, very very stressful, and then to me too to finish out the day. So I felt very comfortable with deck. There was really not a deck in the room that I was scared of and I'm just happy that that the deck proved it's worth it.

It was something that I was really struggling with trying to find ways to beat it or, you know, should I play this deck? And I was testing and it like wasn't really doing that well on the ladder, but I ended up going forward in a paid off. Yeah, so one thing that I'm interested in, and especially now that you've got a chance to play the get cards in real life, what are your thoughts on kind of the too feel there's, I guess, to two point five schools of thought with ATP's option. Right now, there's the tag call engine and there's the more toward turbo energy spinner variant. Yeah, and then, of course, like within both of those, there's like varying amounts of catcher cards that you play in the deck. So which of those variants do you prefer? Just between the spinner versus the goose? Muhalla, sure, I think that. I think that towards version is just the corners are a little rounded. I think it's like a better tag call version. I felt with tag call I was never really missing a beat, but I would also feel that way about towards version and also have like extra draw like extra power, and so, you know, if I had to, if I had to categorize the two lists, towards is just, yeah, the corners are a little bit around it. So you have this like block, that was the list that I played this this tag call version, that was, I think, very straightforward, and then you have towards list, which was just like the the cards in the deck or a little bit more versatile. So I'll give the example of the tag calls versus the cherish balls. Well, tag calls, you know, you want to tag all on your first turn so that you get your atp down, but you could also have cherish balls, you know, and towards version, which would get you not only the ATP but also the Dednni. So it's a little bit that little bit more versatile. Additionally, the only way in the tag call version to you know, bring out your energy and specifically your Aurora or unit energy, would be with Goosemahalla. So if you have the you know, energy spinners, then you're able to draw those out with a GERACI and not need to use your supporter for turn. So again just like smoothing out the corners, and then the energy spinners can be useful in the late game to dig out the the Metal Energy and by playing basic energy you don't have the discard things. It's just it's just a little bit. It's like marginally better, right, you know, if you have to put like a percentage on it, like I would say it's like four percent fighters a better. Going to say very, you know, very tiny compared to the whole, but it is I think his version is better. Yeah, it's it's like kind of funny. I'm multiple levels, I guess. Like first off, both variants for the finals, right, like yeah, clearly there is. It's not like a clear, obvious choice because it's really the finals is very close. You know it was. It wasn't like toward was like boom, boom, blow in this game out, like it was. All is always close. Yeah, besides the situation where Brian deadrew, but even beyond that, I was actually experimenting with Cherish Fall just because I was playing to Todnne and actually heard of the limitless podcast. Was Robin talking about like playing Multiple Dedn A. I'm like, I like that idea, but I want to search them out. So I started playing chairs falls. I didn't fully catch on to the energy is finished water, though, and that was the piece that I think really pushed it to like the next level. And sure, sure, and obviously having the customer and having the acrobikes is also very good. I do just want to say in terms of building the ATPS ASEEN list, there are a few things that I just whatever version you go with, there are few things that I think are like permanence, that I would never go lower then and those are the two Dedenne. I...

...think those are just so good, no matter if you play the tag call or to day. Is really good towards towards version it's just it's so good. It's such a good crutch and consistency card. It's so just I can't I can't fathom playing the deck with one too just feels correct because there are turns at the end of the game where you just want to dig through your deck and then also a supporter, and so having that is so huge. And then the other thing that I would say is having for Zausian is massive because it's it's a deck that the game plan turn one is so simple, where you want to get an ATP down with an energy and you want to get an energy on yours Asian like that. If you do that, I think you know the win percentage for that board state must be, you know, astronomically higher than if you didn't get an energy on the Zascian and obviously, like if you don't get it first turn attachment. So it's just that's like the perfect board state and so having the for Zascian so that you start with it or draw into it, is just is very clutch. I've found it to be just a huge boon. I was playing with for Geraci in three Zausian, but that wasn't that good because for two reasons. One is that you set me head for Zashi, though it's just not finally, no, no, I'm saying I was like testing, I had been testing, had for and then the one that I sent you was the one that I played at that but starting as austeen isn't so bad, right, because it just has a lot of HP. So the GERACI doesn't get knocked out by things like jumping balloon or so Galio in the mew two decks and yeah, it's just something that you know, can take a hit or two, which I really liked throughout the day. So fores asking is definitely the way to go, and Gerangi is almost a pivot. You like to start with it. It's definitely a good card to start with, but it's not a card you need to start with where I'll start trashy man, like it has in some other decks. I mean I would look at, I don't know, like something like Pe Khurram is, like, yeah, you just really loved to start Gerashi and you'll treat, you'll retreat into it. Yeah, Malamar, like you'll retreat into GERACI. I don't often find myself like needing to retreat in GERACCI with with Zaskian. So it's great deck and I would just say those two things too to Dann a for Zascian. And then really the the wrest of the list is is kind of however. You prefer it for switch? For Switch, okay, for sure. Or switch. I heard you can't play that. That for switch. I don't think. Okay, I think for swearing is a higher priority that for Isash. Now, Dude, no, it's for ZAS. I will take all. I'll if I had to choose the to be my forsash, my force, which I will play that for switch. Well, yeah, but you're not making that choice now. No, yeah, you should, but I'm just saying, if I had to, that's what right. You know, some horrible thing was happening to me and I was forced to choose. Yes, yes, yes, so, yeah, I think. I think overall we kind of have similar thoughts, like toward kind of push the deck to the next level. I I am kind of still a fan of the decks that play more than four catchers, like three to four pokemon catchers. Sure, yeah, you were taught that a little bit as well. Yeah, I talked about that a lot in our group chats. I still really like that, and part of the reason I like that is in the mirror getting that gust is if you can get the gusts before them, it kind of puts you in the exact state you need to win, especially if they're pont it. Played it at did Annie Down and you can, what is it called? ATP attack it. Sure, if you can ultimate ray a Dedenne with ATP you basically win every time with Yeppe's option in the mirror. So that's why I like...

...having a lot of catchers. That being said, they're not necessary, they're definitely a boon and you can kind of way for yourself whether you'd rather play acro bikes or, you know, more tech cards or whatever. Sure, definitely a preference through. One thing that I didn't love from towards listed, and I hope I'm remembering correctly, but I don't think he played a Feon, which I found was not mentally owned or Resetsan. Yeah, I found the feon to be just immensely useful in every, basically every game I played, even as just a disruption but also that little extra insurance against something like stall or obstagon. Right. You know, I did play en up playing a stall deck I won very easily on Saturday. But the you know, playing against obstacle. I feel like you would want that that gust, and then it can also just disrupt against things like specifically mew two. If they started me two and then bench one to DNA with no other cards, then just using the feon is like you're forcing them to burn a resource or to attach an escateboard or something, and that's not always something that they have in hand. I actually had that happen and I think my top for match where I just use the use the feon just to try to provide, you know, a little bit of disruption and make him waste a resource, and it turns out he never had that resource to begin with. So it bought me an extra turn and with that kind of matchup, just that extra turn is basically going from okay, we'll see how it plays out to I have in firm control of this game from start to finish. So yeah, so, and shout out to the tricky gym raiders who are just coming in. I think we've talked a lot about sation. It's very clear that we love zoption on tag team. We think it's the best Dec we have thought it's the best deck for a month now and that's probably not going to change in the foreseeable future. Right. But there are other decks out there and I think the ones that are rising to the top for me are the less cephalon decks, both the baby and the adult. But honestly, I think I'm really liking with Cephal on gx right now a surprising amount, which is something I never thought I would say. We're right like it. Brading and I have been talking a lot about with Cephalon. We've just literally net deck the list from almo that played the four Marny's and it's just been so good. It's I've been dealing with ATPS very well. I've been, you know, rolling over all sorts of other gx decks right and it's been a blast. Have you got a chance to test out any of those fire decks? I have played a little bit of the baby will cephalon deck and I found that to be just extremely fun. More than anything, I often find that that is of well, I lose I lose the you know, just the consistency, like when you go from a deck like ATP, which is like for me, has never really with you know, I never really with that turn to alter creation and you know, unless they play something like crushing Hammer, but you know, you just it's so consistent. And then you go to something like we's Felon, where you like well, I need a welder here and hope I hit another pokemon or else I you know, it's like that kind of thing. You're always kind of that early game where you're on the edge of your seat. I don't love that. But obviously the late game, where you're one shotting, one shotting, one shotting everything in your path is so strong that you can't really discount the deck. Yeah, I've honestly, my favorite partist finds list just for the fun of it has been the the crammer at the Crammer va is so fun to use. Like, if you're desperate, you could beat catch, which that rocks. I love that. And then the the what is it like? The beak shot? Is that what it's called? Like shot, just like hitting it to de a or a Gracchi or an obstacle or something just that is amazing, so broke whatever.

I'm on discord with Brady. We call it creamy lad in honor of Mark Daily Spit Shot. That's what it is not be shot. So yeah, cravy lad has been insanely clutch for me. I've loved that, but honestly I do like the step on Gx more right now for exactly the kind of things that you're calling out that you didn't like about Babel Stufflon, where if you don't you're offering these weird situations where like I have to hit a pokemon off this molder, or I have to hit two fires in a crystal off this welder right, right, all sorts of crazy stuff like that. Yeah, you just put yourself in these situations where you're like just clenching. You know, you're just clenched the whole time time. It reminds me of like Malmar. You know where you're just, you know, hope I hit it. You know, Cynthia for six son and I hope it hits like energy in a right. It just you know, it's like you're just clenching the whole time with will stefflon. So it never gives me enough confidence to play it in a tournament, but I just love rolling it on the ladder because you pretty much no one's so fun to play out as both of us. Stuff on deck are great for ladder just because they're like, they're quick, they're fun, you have a great time playing them. But honestly, like if if I was going to a tournament, which again I recommend not doing, I think we'll CEPHON's one of my top picks right now. Gx. It does, in my opinion, does really well into ATP because you can sure what someone want to. ATP's biggest boons is that you can force the ATP up and then forced to zoshtions and that's three knockouts. The dre kind of hard to get individually. All of them stuff. One can offset that just by bursting. You know, you burst one turn and then they're still attaching to their ATP and immediately you offset that trade right. It can knock out atps the turn that they gx. But even if you whip it's not the end of the world because the island challenge, amulet, the thick marning line can actually just affect any deck. Make rems randomly with one thing and that's all it really takes. I just I think the deck really strong right now and also the draw power is insane. Like it's so fun to draw three cards at a time four different times in a turn. We see each factory or Choreo, the Nugana Bell and well, yes, Oh, and welder, right, and you could like all twice. So I guess you could draw it five times. But yeah, yeah, it's just like the drawing three over and over is just hilarious to me. I have a great time doing that. It's like playing a how repeated yeah, it's like something is more exciting about drug three, four times that or like drawing three twice is more excit writing, the drawing six ones and my yep, yeah, do all these ridiculous actions. To draw three, like I'm gonna describe this fire energy. Then are going to start the ultier beast. And then, because when my pokemon was knocked out, I'm going to draw three more just because. And then I'm attached to energy and draw three boards. Is like what is going on over there? So would, I mean would you feel confident to take Blis Cephalon gx to, you know, let hypothetically, I mean Toronto shouldn't happen. We expect them to cancel that tournament, but if Toronto was happening and you were going, would you be comfortable taking bull stuff on Gx? Oh, yeah, actually, I've I've been playing a lot of POKON TCG out the last couple days. I kind of we talked about this a lot, you and I individually, but we always talk about how like people like toward always managed to find like the next step, you know, and I was on talking to Brady the other day and we're like, you know, how does this keep happening? And I don't think there's having so they obviously have a lot of innate talent, but toward plays more pokemon than probably anyone in the world. That guy is on the ladder and...

...you see, you'll see him there too. I've played toward tons of times on the ladder and I'm just like, you know what, I just got to play more pokemon. So I've been playing a lot and a lot of that time has been devoted to bill stuff long because it just keeps winning. And sure, I'm about that. Let's go down that rabbit hole for a little bit, because we were talking about this, you know, over the last week. But just saying like the EU is doing very well. Were we always kind of not not US specifically, but I think Americans in general just kind of rag on Europe as being maybe a lesser region or, you know, not as skilled have on average, and I would just wonder your thoughts on that. You know, I think there is like this kind of American dominance type but if we look at you know, the EU winners are the ice winner. Excuse me, since it's happened. I mean it's a majority of European players. So just given that, like how would you address somebody that says America's better than Europe? You know, I think it's you can never really make a sweeping statement like that, but I think there has been a huge stigma with Europe and I think part of it is they have a smaller player base, so it kind of seems like just these couple players are the only ones that matter, when they probably proportionately have more fantastic players than America does. If I really had to make a reach there, they've won, I think, if you're if I'm doing the math right, they've won over half of the ICS. They've won worlds recently, when I don't think the US can really say that last time we won world's was Jacob Van Wagner in two thousand and fifteen. So yeah, I mean Europe is really making a case for themselves and I don't think the haters are unjustified. And I think even beyond that, I think the US for a long time had a really bad attitude about the game and they didn't really care to get better. They didn't really care to test as extensively as they should have, and this attitude is kind of adjusted over the years, but if you look back on archives from like verbank and Hey Fonte from a couple of years back, you'll see it where people just do not care to test and we're adamant that testing was a waste of time. Right and I would say, Hey, I choose my deck, you know, the day before and the day and this was something we saw a lot of people saying and resonating with and American players. That is yeah and well, and I actually I mean I kind of think back to when I was for starting in like not to buy. No means throwing this legendary American player under the bus, but like you'd have these stories and he'd write articles, but Kyle sukovitch would be like, well, I have two decks and I rolled a Diye the day of and I chose this deck because it was a six, you know, and it's like, Oh, you knows, even as long as I've been playing, like people just in in America have just kind of, yeah, may before gone testing and now we're kind of seeing just what can happen, how the heights you can reach the more that you test, right. And so, like I kind of decided that I want to work on that more and improve more because I want to be and I think, I don't think I'm like a bad player by any means, but I want to be on the top up of the game. You know, I don't want to just I don't want to not win regionals, you know, and I don't want to just got top for with them either, you know, right, I was very happy to get top for last year, but I want to win a regional. So what can I do to take that next step, right? And that's kind of where my mindset is right now, which has led me down this plath of playing with stefal on on ladder a bunch, which, yeah, maybe that isn't the best solution to the problem, but I do think it's a very good deck. I think it's very underrated right now. I think sure we'll are taking it for granted and thinking that it can't be ATP when that's just not true. And I think part of the reason I got inspired even before Brady started talking about the stupid deck was I was playing ATP a...

...lot myself, and you know, ATP mirrors are probably my least favorite mirror ever, or one of them, just because they feel it's either you go first or you gust first and that's what will win you the game right now, as opposed to like really making some outstanding play that they didn't see coming. It just doesn't happen now. Like maybe early on you could surprise people will like Zigzagoon type stuff, but I think that surprise factors kind of gone and also that kind of stuff is slowly getting pased out anyway. Sure. So. So I was playing ATP, though, on the ladder getting to my original thought, and I hit up with Cephalon and, like you know, he's never going to knock out my ATP of the turn Igx, so I'm just going to knock out his less felon with ultimate ray, and then I knock out another will cephalon with brave late and I win and ED. You know, this guy just straight up knocked out by ATP the turn igx without much effort whatsoever. And I'm like, well, you know, I have a frying pan of my Zash in. I'll reset stamp from the three and maybe he won't knock out my Zoshan from zero energy. Yet. You know, Gosh Darny, he did. Look it's like, you know, this is it's a this has step some merit. Sure. So that's what kind of led me down this rabbit hole. I I think the CEP on baby is more fun because you got crany lad you got a Victini prisme stars fun, just as carding energy from your hand is really fun. And like the uncapped damage that you can get her. Yeah, yeah, it's on. And I was on the ladder the other day, if you're watching the stream, and I was like let's just be M and I like fire, fire, yeah, you know, you get like twelve energy and damn, you know, it's like that's so yeah, like doing six hundred damage. That freaking rocks, man. Yeah, and there's like less maintenance. I think. Ultimately, why I think we'LL CEP on gx is better, is it plays better off the board. Yeah, you always have more stuff going for you. And but one term we talked about briefly in general before the podcast, and maybe this is worth exploring and more. Dex is or CAREO GX has been like a real superstar. And those decks, it really is what actually makes them work. Sure, and I mean we were talking about this too. We need to stay we need to stop saying that we were talking about this. We just see to stop talking before the podcast. Well, that's it. What or Koreo is? Is it strictly business relationship from now on? That's true, that's true, that's true. Okay, yeah, no more. No. It's like, okay, I won't even say what, but there's no power plant. Our plant just isn't a card that's in this matter game. And I heard good right now, a very good there's chaotic swells and mewtwo decks, mew to Malamar decks. It's just not a good it doesn't really stop much of anything. I mean Zastian decks can play without Dednn a very easily and I'm just doesn't really perform that well. Maybe against a mewtwo thing, but like the better mew two counters probably mimic you over a stadium. And so, yeah, you have these cards that are just kind of coming out of the woodwork specifically, or Choreo, which is just a nice little extra consistency card. Yeah, yeah, nice is really an understatement. And decks like welder based X as well, because they really need that extra little push, I feel like, to actually get their combos consistently. Sure, and it makes a significant difference. Three cards. You know, who would have thought that? How was so good in the end? Sure, Tier No, charon kicked that poison hop right, right, I mean, but then you have like the flip side, like Marnie is a very good card. So marnie combined with a knockout is a lot...

...of decks. You know, reset stamp to one strategy, right. It's just that's huge insurance against that. Yeah, it just try to get you to whiff that one little turner or, you know, give them that little space where you're not quite able to set up the right rest of your board. And so, I mean we look at towards winning list. It didn't play any reset stamp. So the only way he could disrupt your handles with Marnie and then just getting that extra three cards, like suddenly you start your turn with eight cards instead of five, and that's huge to be able to have a response. Yeah, absolutely is. So I don't know, maybe or Quia might even be worth exploring and other decks. Sure is making a significant impact, in my opinion, in these fire decks. So sure something perhaps worth testing. I don't know. I guess it depends. I think it's probably best in decks that have combos. So Zoshi and could probably Shashi and could almost certainly accommodate it in the list, but it wouldn't be as worthwhile because it plays pretty well off of basically nothing like you don't need a lot to get going well. And I find too that the ZAUSTIAN board I don't want to overfill with things because you usually have, you know, your ATP and if it doesn't get knocked out, that's just a bench sitter for the rest of the game. Usually have to Zassian's usually have a GERACI and our Ang Guru and then you leave your last spot open for like a Dedenn, a feon and that kind of thing. I usually think of it. Does you have like to bench flex spots? You have the ones that you're talking about. A ranger. I don't think it is a given on a particular game it is sure to have for sure I find in probably seventy percent of the games I'm going a ranger. I mean, ranker is good for sure, but I feel like sometimes you play to Danny down. Sometimes you know, you play, I don't know, a second Ratchio. You played a DNA and you need to save it for a Feo and or appshole or something like. Right, it's but it's like about two slots. It's what you have. In my experience, that can go to support. POKEMON, sure, or Coreo. Probably isn't necessarily one of those firstpects, but maybe we're trying. I could definitely see it appearing in other decks, though, like maybe ability Zard could a comedy or Choreo. I could definitely see that working. Mewtwo could maybe use it, you know, simple stuff like that. I think Wilder de x what are really what benefit the most from it, sure, because it lets not get that extra push. Yeah, any other decks that you're looking at that are maybe under the radar that you either have tested in a liked or haven't tested in a want to? Not to a huge extent. I don't not a huge fan of the stall decks right now because they feel exhaustion is a decent matchup against them, unless they really go super hard into the matchup, in which case stuff like stuff on gx or peek wrong because start to pray on them. Yeah, I don't like Peka Ram. I will say that out right. Even though it performs decently, it's just not a deck that I enjoy playing. I would rather play ATP if I was playing a tag team, or I'd rather play but Cephalon if I'm looking to his sweep fast knockouts. Sure, so, sure, I think. I think really my top picks really come down to fired x and Saustion, which is kind of what I've been saying all quarter yeah, absolutely so. I think at this point we can open up the floor. Riley, I think that was pretty good overview of what what we got going on, at least in terms of what we're liking. Again, this is not this is not any recommendation for tournament play, because we wouldn't recommend that you go to any tournaments. I did say earlier in the cast that, you know, maybe there's a local tournament that you could head up. Again, a lot of these statements have have kind of been against like the large gatherings. So in our world that would be a regional or hire. And so, just keeping that in mind, you obviously have to have a little bit of, you know, a life and you have to, you know,...

...have some social aspect to that life, and so playing in a ornament I don't see as like a sin, a crime against humanity in terms of, you know, passing on diseases. Obviously you still can and that in that event, but you know, don't be too crippled by by the virus that you just like shut down completely, because that's just not good for like mental health and right. But large gatherings are no, large gatherings are what, you know, we really really strongly advise against. So, but all that to say that, yeah, these these are ptcge Oh suggestions primarily, which is such a bizarre thing to say, it is it is. So let's see, what do we have in chat here? Do you both think that this format will be like world's two thousand and twelve or twenty two thousand and eight, or the best dext to format, for the best sex and format were Mewtwo, dark rides, racky on Guardi Galaid respectively? Do you see ATPS Austan being that kind of, you know, just just stire deck that really dominates that people either have to play or find a counter. Two I don't know if it's quite in the stire. I would say it's like an the a plus plus tire, because I feel like that. I feel like the best decks can hang with it at least enough of the time that it's not like, you know, you know, you don't ought to win a tournament by showing up. Was Aushan if you if no one else is playing it, you know, sure, turn like you can definitely get overrun by Peka Ram or Mewtube or whatever, and you kind of saw that in your Turner report, like all sorts of decks were hanging with you. But ducin is just like a little more consistent and a little stronger, right, but not so much so like Guardi glad was a perfect example of a deck that was insanely dominant and you just had to play it, or decks that exclusively beat it, and I don't think options like that. Sure, sure, I don't quite agree. I do think of this point it is nest here deck. Now, that being said, there's still more to explore about this format. That should go without being said. So I think the more that we play at the more will find counters and the more will find ways kind of exploit the strategy. I just Sam hesitant to say star or for anything when the other decks in like the Atier, can keep up so well with it. I think star should be incredibly dominant, and it is. The turn like kind of is ashing. kind of is well like in other ways. I think you know, the Paka Rams and the CEPHALON's and the you know whatever else is they all hang fine it they but they don't, though. The thing, you know, like they definitely do, kind of do, but they but they really don't. It's like everything has to go right for Peka Ram to hang with the speaker. Maybe isn't the best example because that that goes to trash. But like I I don't think it's trash. It's just has obviously that trash, but that's just not where ATPS Osten is like everything has to go right for the peak are on player. I guess it's like I think star is just like it has to be on a completely different level for me to call it st here, and I don't think Zashi is on a completely different level. I think it's better. I think it's better, but I don't think it's on a completely different level that like, other decks don't hang. Ok, fair enough, fair enough, do you? I mean you clearly believe that other decks can hang to an extent. Yeah, to an extent, but there are are they're like that one. Like if you play the matchup a hundred times, like ATP is going to win, I feel like every single matchup, at least, you know, sixty times. Like that's seriously how I feel about the deck where,...

...yes, peak rom could win, but just over the course of you know many, many games, like you're just not going to be there. You're just not going to be there that consistently. ATP does what it wants to do every single game and if you can't hang with that, then you just get blown out. Yeah, maybe, I guess it's like stire. I considerly it has to be. And like maybe that's just like my perspective for from seeing other card games, metagames that just completely overrun in a way the ATP has not done in Pokemon. But I think pokemon also, like the dominance isn't as over in Pokemon, I guess because there's usually more viable decks at any given time. Sure I'm so, I don't know. Sure, sure, and I mean again, and this is like yeah, you're coming from other card games. I'm coming from POKEMON. I it's not really that much of a stretch for me to say that this is one of the most dominant decks that I've seen. It's definitely one of the most dominant ones. And like the past year, that's for sure. Oh, for sure, the pass here, but I know I'm thinking ten years, like I can't think of I can think of one other deck that I thought like should have won every single tournament that I was entered into, and that was Chandeler in cities of two thousand and ten. And that's about it. And maybe you know, in two thousand and ten you could say MAG zone. You on mega, though I didn't play in that format, but it just I'm trying. I'm struggling to think of you know, in ten years of playing, I haven't seen a deck that I just gravitate towards that does everything it wants to do every single time and that is impossible to counter for most decks. You know, there's not something that Peek Rom can put in that just says okay, I autoway. You know, our I take a positive matchup now to a t it's it's that kind of deck, like we're it just it's so hard to counter. Yeah, I did think. I did think it's very good, though. I mean I would definitely put it, like a tear above all the other decks. I just like I reserve as to here for like being a certain kind of better than the other decks. You know, fair enough. Maybe it's more of a difference in like verbage, a like diction, that it is like actual opinion on the deck. Sure, to be honest, that's what it actually a sounding like as we're talking. Yeah, right, like we're both in a grant. So we're saying the same thing, but just different ways, you know. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, these will. Those are to say. This has become a semantic debate. It totally has. We're with you there, man. We caught it. We caught up before we saw your message. Good. Any other questions from the chats? We'd love to answer them. Somebody says here that garb in two thousand and seventeen and that was a format that I played. You know, if we're thinking about the naice tournament, that just you know, garb by I think of that tournament when I remember Trash Lanch, Drampa Garb, but I ended up playing Zork Garb, Zorog Drampa in that tournament and I felt like that had the best like matchup spread. I plays for the CHAMPA and Seattle. No, I played it in at an a see in twenty. Okay, so Andrew ended up making top eight with the list and just it was Drampa go our DRAMPA Zor Ark was, I felt, you know, kind of on pace with the trash lanch decks. Yeah, you say that, but like she actually it's also got twenty out of twenty, two out of thirty two or so I think of that day to its Seattle, and it also want all the tournaments. Well, yeah, the people back then didn't test as much as I feel like. I feel like we could enter that safe sabantics debate. We have baby's Ashen with champ of God through. That's true. It's it's true. Although I really did...

...like those are o tack that think was a more fun than trampy. That is an objective truth. Oh for sure. If I was to ever revisit that format, you know, the first thing I was legal, but that's arctack yeah, that's absolutely deck rocked. So orange rabbits ass. What do you do if your opponent in Toronto is visibly sick? Don't go to Toronto to start, and I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation. I don't know. We have any advice? I don't know. Would you publicly shame them for an endangering everyone? I would like request hand sanitizer or gloves or something like. Yeah, I don't know. D It's so it's so weird, right, because you're like it's just tough, we can't. I'll just forget to scoop and leave. Man Like yeah, you was more important. Please, safe guys, if you are gonna go to Toronto and they aren't canceled or Charlotte or whatever this safe guys, like I don't want to hear about, you know, massive outbreak it Pokemon regionals like that just be so horrible. Just please, don't die on us. You're our viewers, are listeners. We need that sweet yours. Katron says, Free K like just start coughing on everybody. No, I don't want to take this lay too lately either, because it is affecting a lot of people, but you know it's obviously fun to like to keep things, you know, a little bit lighthearted as well. So sure, sure, I just want to make it clear, like when we don't make light of the situation, deafings and again, like a part of the reason we're had. Silver pocket brings up a great point in the chat. is like everybody gets safe after regionals already. You know, why do it? Why would you get stick after a regional? Drink a pandemic cap right, right, and that's that's the thing too. Is Like I noticed, you know, I hadn't been to a tournament in a while and going to this going to this local, you know, the Cup on the weekend, I like now I have this little like scratchy in the throat. You know, you just wake up with a little sniffle, but it's like clearly not, you know, the virus, because it's not the same symptoms and it hasn't been prey weak or whatever, but it's just like yeah, you're going to be around around people that you know are different and are going to pass through different things just for the you know, because you're different people. So, you know, being sick after regionals or after events has is always something that happens. But be aware, guys, be safe out there. Yeah, and I think that's probably the perfect Capstann we can make to this episode. It's really just be safe, be cognizant of yourself and others. You know, we all love Pokemon and we're all excited to play, but health and safety should always come multiple steps before playing pokemon cards. So right. So please keep that in mind. We really do recommend not going to these large events right now. Don't notice. Let yourself completely stay in touch with your friends, either like through stuff like discord, or going to like small local things, but but really keep it close and I don't think we can really drive this point home enough. We've said it multiple times over the course of the show and we love you guys, and we love you all for sure. We really we do appreciate you all on your support. Sorry that we won't be at these upcoming tournaments for a little bit here, but we will continue to do the show and if things do end up getting canceled and we have to shift away from metaphorecasting, just feel free to tweeted us. We have some of our own ideas that will start to work on to keep things new and interesting for you guys instead of just talking about the stuff on and ATP every week. But if you have suggestions, feel free to either tweeted US DM US on any...

...of our personal accounts or at tag team pokemon on twitter, and with that we will all talk to you soon. We really appreciate you, guys again. Stay safe, stay healthy and peace.

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