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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 8 · 2 years ago

2-7. Ghost of Card Games Past

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys discuss some of their favorite decks and cards from years past. If you're feeling nostalgic or want to know more about old formats, this is the episode for you!

WHAT DOES UP EVERYBODY? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON Training Card Games Premier podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert, joined by my good friend JW Cree Wall. JW, how you doing today, Riley? I feel like you always ask and I always say very good, and today is no exception. It's like those building up today perhaps of being an exception. Well, things are a little different. Obviously. We were in what is this week one of stay at home for us in Ohio. This is the you know, the governor ordered stay at home, as with many governors in many states, and so we've been let's see, that happened on maybe Monday or yesterday, something like that. So this is the first like official week of literally nobody should leave their house, which is cool, and by cool I mean horrible. But the plus side is that we have a friend over from St Louis, who is a musician so is out of work. You know, his orchestra doesn't play right now, and so he's just chilling with us and we get to hang out. He's really into board games and so we've enjoyed the time with him. Very nice. So he's kind of stuck there now right he's a little bit stock. I mean we don't we don't quite know. I mean he's happy to he's welcome to stay here as long as possible or as long as he needs or as long as this whole thing goes on. But it just thinks are so up in the air that is probably better for him to be here with us then, you know, alone in isolation. I think if you you know, and I'm sure you can speak to this Riley, where this being along, it like you'd ratter just beat with somebody, you know. Yeah, I mean, I get, I find no, sure, no, for sure, and definitely like technology makes it so that you can really interact with friends right away. You just couldn't before. But even so, I think having that human, human contact is pretty important for us this. Humans are just being social beings. Yeah, I will say if it wasn't for a discord, this would be quite the quite the process. That's all I'm saying. Getting on backcord with the lads. That's a it's all you need. Right, I haven't been able to make it out. I saw you guys are playing scribblio. We literally are in discard every night these dings. All right, I need I need to make it out there because I love things like Scribblio, Quip Lash, you know, those kinds of like party games. Oh Yeah, yeah, we started doing more stuff like that to like accommodate all the people that are coming into the voice cord. Okay, because it used to be you know, there's a lot of like legal edges and t fight tactics this stuff. Yeah, which is fine, but not everybody does that. Or that's what because your inquartine, that's all you do. Yeah, the one time I came in, you and Dankts were just playing league. Dangis, is really play league? You're playing team far tactics. Yeah, well, the new thing, new season just started for teeth by tactics. It's like a little height. But you know, you get you get like tired of laytefy tactics. If that's all you do and it days, you gotta you gotta play the Scribblyo, you got to play the Jackbox Games, you gotta pull all those kind of fun things some of my other friends and I have been doing, like Pummel Party, if you ever heard of that? Yeah, yeah, I kind of like the R rated Mario Hardy. Yeah, that's pretty fun. You know, just try to find different ways to entertain ourselves. I've personally been enjoying animal crossing quite a bit. I know you don't have to switch, so you don't get to experience that same joy and fulfillment in life, but well, I don't know. What is the appeal to animal crossing? The appeal to anile crossing? Is You just kind of chilling with you know? Well, that's yes, that's an appeal to me. I like to do things that a goal and end roll. A lot of people, a lot like Gamers, like that kind of style. Right, the more things to do, all right, and it's the same reason that I don't particularly like running as opposed something like basketball, right, or basketball has...

...you know, you try to score running. It's like how long can I go till I pass out, you know, and it's just that that doesn't appeal to me, I guess, and that's a sure for sure. I understand. I understand it's not for everybody. I was watching a like review of it on Youtube today and he's say like yeah, anible cross thing is basically just one gigantic fetch quest I don't like yeah, but you know, you just have fun doing it and it's not a kind of game for this for everybody, but the people who like it really like it, oh for sure. And I know that they do a lot of like detail work, which is always very cool. I can see how somebody would like it because they put in so much like cool you just just cool things, like Natalie was or I saw maybe Natalie was talking about it, or I saw something on twitter where they had like a villager that they thought they had lost from their old game that came back and they were just so happy about it and it was just cool. Things like that can kind of like carry over and there's a lot of like lore in the game as far as I know. And yeah, it seems cool. It seems very deep. Yeah, it's fun. My my old roommate from Columbus just got one of my favorite villagers. So I'm not making it my personal mission to stop by his village every day and slowly sit do some to my village. So how does that? How does that work? Are Their duplicates of these villagers? I assume so, right, because everybody has, everyone has their own instance of the game, right, so you could technically have the same villagers, but villagers also move to your place from other people's villages? Or that's the question. Is, like, are all these animal crossing games? Are they all like pair or alternate universes where they all exist like this? Is this like time splitting? I guess, depending on how the technology of the planes he used to get between islands works, that it might very well be. Like maybe you're in I'm kind of like you know how some movies, like the Ermuda Triangle, you enter like a different time zone or like not. Yeah, like realm and parallel universe, like maybe that's what's happening. Like as you fly through the air on this plane, you like travel between dimensions and stuff. So I'm saying because for every copy of the game sold, there's you know, I heard there's like a million, two million copies sold in Japan. So there's two million Tom Nooks. Right. So that's all. Just this is, you know, the tree branches out, you know, to a credible I could see it. Maybe time duck is also just like an android that's like watching over us. It's like the Matrix. Okay, I could see that. Or it's that it's like that. It's like that show with Jim Carrey where he's in the bubble what's his name? The one where he's like a character on a show, a TV show exactly? I forgot, I can't I remember the name. It's I'M gonna I'M gonna remember it, like immediately the truth and showed the true, true, yeah, that was a good movie. Everyone do but Jim Funny. That's true. It's like your villager is the only one that doesn't know that there's all these multiple reale that. That seems like. You're really accurate. All the store keepers and stuff. They definitely know what's going on. But right, right, for all the same person are like a robot, with the villagers are just like victims. Aang, dude, that's deep. I'm going to have to get on the message boards that theory hasn't already been spoken into existence. We definitely have to get this on the forums fronto. The people still use for of I used to use forms. I think facebook are the new forums. kind of write like groups are forms. That not admitted is lost, though. Stuff like facebook where like before, for I guess, yeah, someone in...

...chats. They read. It's basically afore. I can see that as well, but I don't really use read at all that much. I got bread it's in the same nature. Is like what a forum used to be, though it's like an an equivalent, but I don't know if it's like the same vibe. Yeah, it's fair and speaking of how things used to be, Riley we they are going to get into the meat of the episode, which is talking about some of our favorite things from the past. You know, we've we've done a lot of future looking and today we want to just take a time to reflect on what has been, what we've enjoyed throughout the game in terms of favorite formats, favorite cards, favorite decks and things that we want. You know, we're printed things that we think that would be very good or usable or fun in the current and future formats. Yeah, for sure, and I think there's a there's a lot of good pokemon that's existed before now. Not The pokemon today isn't good, but there's only so many times that we can talk about is option ATP when nobody's even playing standard sanctioned events. So I think this will be an interesting time like take a look back and see what what things we've enjoyed. What things come to mind is being particularly strong formats maybe that we didn't even directly play in the world's kind of open it up a little bit right now. Absolutely cool. So I think you just kick it right off right. So the first thing that we wanted to hit on was some of our favorite past formats. So I think anything is really fair game. It doesn't have to be particularly quote unquote old. It doesn't have to be like a universally beloved format to be one of our favorites. But, Ijaye, let's Gick it off with you. What is prime contender for one of your favorite formats? Well, I don't know whether it's just nostalgia or whether the format really was good, but I first started getting into the game ten years ago when SPS were just finishing. So you had things like blaze can get, things like Lux Ray Gi level x, you had things like dialog, chomp. All these kinds of decks were, you know, the constituency of the SP decks and I loved that kind of methodical pace of play. I would call it methodical pace of play, where you're not really doing anything major, for you're doing just enough every turn to, you know, to win the game over the course of six or seven or eight turns. You know, you like shit of like the two thousand and ten to love it era. Right, right. It's very that methodical Gameplay, that kind of planned out gameplay that I was really gravitated towards coming into the game. That's when I first started going on POKA JAM and hey trainer and I just remember that format being very, very interesting and intriguing as a new player. We kind of flip that coin to the midseason rotation where heart, cold, soul silver became, you know, the only usable set block, and that went from this methodical pace of play to this kind of erratic pace of with babies dominating the format. Tyrogue was like a fair work dog and just, you know, it all felt so, so random. You know, are more random than the SP era. So those were kind of two formats that I look back and think very fondly of. I didn't actually play during those formats, but that when I was when I was starting to get heavily invested in it, into the game, and they just told that special place my heart. Yeah, for sure. So it's kind of funny because those formats definitely contrast how they're played in the card pool...

...as available to them. SP's had insane amounts of like synergy going for them and all sorts of support cars or is. I feel like hss kind of formats didn't have quite as strong of like support cards available to them, but the Pokemon, it felt like the pokemon kind of support themselves a little bit more and the sure that was definitely that was definitely a cool thing about hargold soul silver era versus SP and and it kind of was a double edged sword, right, because you had cards like magnazone which, once you set them up, got, you know, had that built in draw right. So they were like you're saying that support inherent in the card. But the problem with that, the double edged sword, is that, you know, the every deck tried to play Magnusone, basically, you know, if they couldn't, they were trying to counter magnazone. So it kind of warped the format a little bit around just those insanely good cards. I guess that's kind of the you know, same throughout the years. But I think when you have a format like sp there were a lot you know, of course sp was very dominant. I think you had a lot more card selection in that format than you did in the heartcold soulsilver format due to, you know, various factors. Obviously there's more sets available in sp than when they had them a season rotation. You just have, you know, more viable SPS. But Yeah, you look at that and like all these decks, they probably had magnazone in them. They probably had Klefa ty rogue that you could really name, you know, a lot, maybe twenty to thirty cards, and every single deck. That everything late, you know. So you talked about the mid season rotation, which is actually a very interesting time and pokemons history because it's basically the only time they ever done something like that. Talk a little bit about like what actually happened there and what caused the mid season rotation. If I remember correctly, it was because the donking decks got too absurd, and I remember that Sable Eye Donc, for whatever reason, they had released a card, maybe it's like pokemon collector or something that just like broke the deck wide open to the point that Sable Eye Donc, Sable Ie, has this ability where it always goes first if you start so and then that was back in the format where you could attack on the first turn, so you could attach like expert belt to give your guy what a d hp and you just had a really good chance of donking anything because it's first attack. Dis said like it does forty damage if sable eye has more health than the opponent pokemon. So you add some ways to kind of modify your health. You had some ways to modify your damage and it just made it a terror. As far as I remember. I can't quite say like what from heart, cold, soul silver made the deck good, but there was some reason that sable I got just absurdly out of control with things like Crobat and super scoop up. Maybe it's like super scoop up got printed. Yeah, that super scoop up plus the POKA NS. It just got really obtuse and they had to ban is he. That they went through with the midseason rotation not something that people really think of looking back or that I don't think, hopefully, will ever happen again. They don't for see them having the kind of rules that they had vac in asss ever coming back. Well, and I think to the midseason rotation was due to kind of Pokemon's very hesitant nature of banning cards, because obviously they banned sable ie then. I think you know then that mechanic that whole deck just doesn't work. But they really try to avoid banning specific cards. Obviously POKEMON has lightened up on this a little bit, but when you look back on it, wizards of the coast, which was...

...the original creator of the POKEMON card game, they would band cards or had, you know, all these cards that should have been banned and Pokemon just didn't want to do that going forward once they took full rights of the company, and so for the longest time, I mean now was the that was a big deal when the band less came out a few years ago, because Pokemon hadn't done that since they'd own the game, and so going back to that format again, they didn't want to ban anything out right, so they rotated mid season. Yeah, yeah, I think that's as a pretty good summary. I still, I think, but about a still hesitant to ban things, especially especially when it comes to standard format. I feel like that is like the sacred child that cannot be altered in some ways. Like I think besides trump card, what is he even? What do they even ever ban its? It's really nice to have that. Just to go on a little aside. As a as a competitive player for a lot of years and being able to see what happens in, you know, Yugio and magic, obviously the two comparable games, where they're just in Yugio banning cards left and right. So you might buy hard, you might buy a card for a lot of money and then they'd immediately gets banned, you know, before you even have a chance to use in a tournament. To the definitely happens. It's it gets kind of funny. And then magic, of course, has just major cost issues and associated with them not reprinting things or them banning certain thing. You know, it's just it's all kind of wonky there with those two card games. So I like pokemons consistent approach. However, it did lead that one year to very just unusual circumstance. Yeah, so it just it's interesting, to say the least, like how different games approach one of their balance and structure. But I think those are two really awesome formats. So I gotta I gotta agree with you with those. Are Definitely some highlights. Another one of my favorites, going a little bit further back from the modern era, is two thousand and six. Obviously I did not play back then, but I played quite a few decks and games with my friends. Both Natalie is a great resource because she has a quite a few of those two thousand and six decks. We also started putting them at my local league at how state before I moved away, and I just really like how methodical that format is and they array of options that are available to you. So, like Pigiot is just an insane card and it kind of lets any deck have the engine that it needs to function. So then it becomes a matter of like, is the deck actually viable with like the options that you've available to now? So much like can you get it working? Because usually get a lot of things working, but it's just a matter of, you know, is this cart even good in the person place? Kind of thing. And so you have this huge array of options to you. You Have Delta species, you have you have a these crazy attacking pokemon. You have generally a wide array array of pokemon powers that were very cool. Yeah, there's a ton of really interesting abilities like the dwell US ability of the yeah, the the delusion power of the era was a little interesting and how it applied damage. It can only go to certain POKEMON. And then you had you had crazy stuff like Ma cargo, is still played. You had electrode x, which was the exact same kind of idea as the current day electro Gx, and I think actually there's been a quite a few cards from this like two thousand and five and six era that have resurfaced in modern times. So I'm think about the cargo and electrode specifically that have almost identical counterparts actually in today's game, sure, with the only difference being like the HP's usually at. The cargo actually got nerved when it was reprinted it, you know,...

...it lost an attack. Yeah, yeah, which is really funny. It has like the same hp and everything else, but it just has a lot to no attack. I think. Yeah, yeah, that's so funny. That's so wild. The other thing that I liked about that format that got reprinted in that in essence, I mean it's not a one hundred and forty one, but the tag call engine of today was what they had with Hollands transceiver back then. That's a good point where that I mean, that is just so cool to me. I mean it's a little bit different. Obviously tag call can get two things. Transceiver can only get one thing, but you have that kind of synergy there where you can construct your decks so that you don't have to Max out your copies of supporters, where you can get them with a with a trainer, whatever you need in that certain situation. One thing that I did like about twenty two thousand and six, that I would love to see them reprint is something where the pokemon are also energy. I thought that was very, very cool and also a very big part of that format where you could search out, yeah, energy via pokemon search. So there are three instances that I think of. MAGNETON MAGNA zone, I guess, for Voltrb, electrode five, maybe, and then cast form six. So those five were all very big and all had very, you know, well, slightly different uses, just kind of depending on the the engine that you had. But cast form was a huge deal. So cast form allowed you to play it if it already, if the pokemon already had an energy attached, you got to pick that energy back to your hand and attach cast form. And the cool thing about cast form was that it was worth two of any type of energy. So that would really well with the blast ys like you were talking about. You could get up these very, very powerful attacks that cost, you know, other than some energy, other than water and be able to do those really cool things right. And so, for the unfamiliar, that was the entire idea behind the LBS deck of olds. If you ever heard that acronym. The idea is that you can use the blast toys x to put a bunch of water energy onto your board and then you can use cast form to swip them, swap those energy out for different attackers. So you had Luhia, you had a lot of Eos, you had a steelix that sniped. It was you just had a huge ray of options to it's widely considered to be the best stuck of that format just because it was fast, aggressive and it had a ton of useful attacks. The deal with all sorts of situations. So and that to is really fun to play to. It wasn't like some fome sometimes there's a Bedif and it's just like, you know, it kind of a slog to play it, but lbs is a really fun engine. had a lot of crazy things going on and you got to always find the path to victory. It wasn't like victories were just handed to you had to construct that path and I think that's true for a lot of those sixtets. That's why I like it. What's your favorite deck of that format then? My favorite deck has to be at the bomb tar deck. I think that deck is completely insane. So I kind of again explaining for the unfamiliar. There was electrode ex card that was very similar to our current Electro Gx, where you give up two prizes in exchange for attaching a bunch of energy on your board. And back then there was some insane energies available to you, particularly the scramble energy that, when you're behind and it's attached to a stage two, it provides three Rainbow Energies. Wow. So it's very similar in nature to like super boost energy, but it was you can play four of them. So the idea is you have this tyrannatar. It was not a TIRATART Euccess, a regular tyranotar that did ten or damage for every energy attached to it, and then you can use combination of scram energy and darkness energy, which back then was only a...

...special energy and gave additional damage to dark pokemon, to get your damage through the roof very quickly, and then you could disrupt your opponent's hand with team markets Admin, which does the same exact thing as n except you can draw up to that many cards, so you can draw less if you want, and you can use a card called powhand extension, which had two effects and you could choose one of them. The first effect was very similar to countercatcher, where you can just spring up something on the bench, and the second effect was kind of like a kind of kind of like an en aporter for any energy, where you can move an energy around to a different pokmon yeah, with the and you had to be behind and prizes to activate either of those effects. So it kind of all just like synderdize together. You blow up electrodes, you pout you any Straw, a lot of cards with a magma of this card energy and you power up just one or two tyrannotars and you just destroy everything, you know, right disrupting your opponent's board. It was just Super Fun, really cool deck just on the whole. Like those kind of concepts are generally very fun and you can see that kind of replicated if you ever watch Andrews Stream. He plays the LAPPER's electrode deck and it that, honestly, is very, very similar in concepts to the bombed hard deck where you just blow something up reset stamp for your opponent and attack. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's very fun. That's very fun. I would have to say for my favorite deck of that format, it would have been the Joltian abs all deck of that format. What is it called? The the one where you spread with the Joelti on Ja Prick. I honestly know the name off the top of my head. Like it's not going to come to be either. Man, I like had it in my brain and then I and then now I don't, but it's anyway. He's Joel Ti on use. It's ever Lutionary thunderability. You second bite a bunch of stuff, you like scoop it up somehow and just spread a lot of damage on your opponents out of the field. I don't know. Love that deck. I don't remember what I remember it after the cast, immediately after the cast it will come into my brain. That was really fun. One one of the decks that our friend Natalie really likes is the polytoad stall deck. So back then fossils didn't give up prizes, so you'd play like a ton of fossils because there was the root fossil, the cloth fossil and so it's kind of like a don fan dolls deck, because is almost the kind of like equivalent idea where you just swap it to and pollytoad and all of these fossils over and over with the punch and run attack, which is one of my heart attack names. Ever, that's awesome. I've never heard of it. Oh you have it at Onie loves that day. Oh, okay, I'll have to play her. Yeah, it's not like one of the best EGS, but it's it's fun and you get to Say Punch and run, which which I'm going rocks for sure Nice. So I'll pass the Thetan or back to UJW. What are some other things that you have liked in the past? Well, we had one question in the chat here. Did you guys play in the legend Pokemon era, and I did. Now there were a couple of times in the legends series of cards that made them viable, and the legends were very cool mechanics where you needed both halves to play it down. They weren't any single pokemon by themselves, which made them kind of awkward to get into play. So you needed things like pokemon communication to search out a piece, but you couldn't search them out via pokemon collector or, you know, I don't know, other other things that searched out, like basic pokemon or stage ones, because they weren't technically a pokemon. They had to be combined to make one card. So you're playing two cards to...

...get one card, one pokemon on the field, and that was always very cool, like a really good idea. The initial ones, they were very bad. Right you at hope and Lugia occur for hardest and Hoo was, as far as I know, never in any decks. Lugia actually saw some play towards the end of a city's format where it had an ability is like deep dive or something like that, and when you played it you could search the top cards of your deck and find a fire water and electric energy and attach it, and so you could do like two hundred damage or something with its attack that cost fire water and lightning, and then you would play like a super scoop up or something, try to get it back in your hand and Redo the Combo over and over and so that saw a little bit of play in a city's format, but the biggest legend cards that I love to play were in the world's format, specifically quasi deoxis legend and Ray, who ent a legend. So raquasity oxis legend. It has a lot of parallels and got a lot of hate back in the day because it's a lot like ATP where you take an additional prize per knockout. Now, the cool thing about legends was that they also gave out multiple prizes, which, again, back at that time, was a little bit unprecedented. You know, to give up two prizes I was like a really big risk. But you had these things like requasiti axis legend, which could president. It might not be the right or what? What? Yeah, you're right, maybe not unprecedented, but it definitely had. It been out of format for a bit now. Yeah, at that time, maybe not the norm. I guess not the north. That's a good way to put it. Not The the worm. And so you had something like ray cause of the access legend, which could, which could, you know, up the prize race and you could, you know, take four prizes over two turns and just really swing that prize trade. It did like a pretty half the amount of damage and I don't know, one hundred and forty or something like that. I should pull up the card, but in any case that was played and it had the power where that if you took a prize, you could take an extra prize. So it's a really good late game finisher. And then the other card was Ryku ent, a legend which had a too energy snipe attack on all pokemon with poke it powers or pokey bodies. So there were things like sellaby prime, there were things like smear goal and there were things like Shayman that were all these bench sitters that people needed throughout the course of the game that one attack could take, you know, upwards of six prizes, and so that was also just a very, very cool card that I remember from the legend days. Moving ahead, though, beyond the legend cards, I had a great time in two thousand and thirteen with this was like kind of the first iteration, or maybe one or two expansions, of the ex series cards, and landerus was dominating at, you know, unprecedented levels during that time and garbodor was also in the format, the first iteration of garbodor. I remember two thousand and thirteen states that I went to with some friends and we all played the same, you know, landerus deck with Garbodor, you could shut down all your opponent's abilities and just swing at them. Do Thirty, thirty, thirty, you know, Snipe and you'd heal with Max Potion and just like that thing would never die and you just wear them down eventually to the point that you'd win the game. We took the same deck and we made top eight, all three of us, and that was just like a really fun memory. The first printing of x's where or the first like, I don't know, a few tournaments with X L X has really, really fun. Yeah, I did not play personally when big basics carm was kind of like d deck, but historically I have kind of enjoyed those concepts.

More recently, the Buzz Garb deck we played in two thousand and seventeen is a great example of a kind of a exact same counterpart, but in modern day the yeah, the basic the only real difference rather is the addition of Maxi Lixir, which, to be fair, did significantly amp up the power of the deck. Right imaginating playing landers a two thousand and thirteen with Max lixer sounds in same to me. So I could definitely respect those kind of decks. was there anything else? Really in two thousand and thirteen that really jumped out at you? Besides big basic carb, not particular really. I mean that was the year towards the end of that format where Verisi in genes sex really started to see play, and I know that's a that's a favorite of our group. Specifically, I'm thinking of Natalie. Just love to play that deck. Yeah, and so now that was coming on towards the end of that season. Yeah, it's funny because now that those actually talking and are group chat today about how she thinks that virgin was one of the more brainless decks that was ever printed. Can Really Yeah, do you cut? Do agree that sent of it, or do you disagree? I mean to an extent I think it has a lot in common with I don't know it. It does remind me a lot of if we can make a parallel for our current users that didn't play back then. It has a lot of parallels to ATP, where you literally only want one thing, you know, you want that first turn attachment on and then almost nothing else matters. So like you build your whole deck around that one idea and and then it's all very laid out. The whole plan is all kind of laid out for you. Beyond that, right, you get your first turn attachment and then presumably you've played a supporter on the first turn and so you go ahead and attach on the second turn. You can start powering up your versions on the bench and it all kind of like works out there. I wouldn't quite say that that deck is the most brainless I for me, if I had to give she settled on like two thousand and thirteen or two thousand and twelve last sois being the most for you lest if if I had to give my most brainless deck that I've ever played, it probably be buzzble, which which variant of there's quite a few buzzle des. Buzz will just I don't know, Buzz will like and rock, I guess. I see. I feel like buzzle I can rock had some elements of nuance to it, at least, like sequencing. Was Actually, in my opinion, kind of important to pay a buzzle like a rock consistently well, because he played kind of a low energy count relative to your Max looksers especially, I guess, as the years aid of you went on, especially like buzzle will, got even more obviously good, though, stuff like baby buzz will, like you didn't even need to hit Max. Looks there's anymore, you said the string, since like curtasy in the point anymore. Sure. So I feel that. I feel that for sure. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think. I think the the blast oist deck and all of those like attached her one attached her into decks, are kind of in that same realm of brainlessness, though. Or, like you know, version did one thing every game. He attached to the furzy in turn one and two. You Emerald slashed and put them onto either version or genes sect and then you fla one, energeed and GE boosted and continued on with your life, you know, like it was very it was a actually, if you think about it, Virgin really does have a lot in common with joshing UTP, because you just yeah, yeah, it's kind of that same like turn clock. It's kind of that same like first turn play style. I think, yeah, there is a lot of parallels there, but I would say that Versian, genes sec had some things that you could do to it to keep it interesting. I think...

...of they could a chorus machine. I think of the Rosary Line that was put in I think, of course, machine it wasn't the most like I'm not going to sit here and say it is the most exciting, but I think for me it was. There was more nuance to that deck than I that's fair. That's fair. Otto and chat saying that two thousand and eighteen world's format. Rey Quaza was the number one at least I gave. That's fair. Really just slammed out all your equiz and back slickers, you don't even think about. Yeah, it's like, oh, I just start discarded like every use. Look out of my deck, whatever, I don't care. I can swing for two hundred back the sweeper to ten was much more significant than it is now. Right, right, exactly exactly. What about you, Riley? Any any other formats there that you're that you you know, think out in your brain? Are Ones they fondly? I think there are two formats that we both kind of talked about that we really liked and they're both around the time of national else. So I'm thinking nationals of two thousand and seventeen, where you had the garbodor decks, you had the decidual I decks, the Volcanian decks and then my favorite, the store arch decks and this wasn't the archx. This is standing. Zor Arc was the only stark at the time and you played a Rampa and sometimes in an array of other attackers and you just kind of went to town and that was so fun. It was very methodical. All the decks that time were very methodical and like you had to place your damage counters are Sideua. You had to make really smart passiment choices with DRAMPA. Just overall a really fun format and I think honestly, there's still all sorts of really cool games. A lot of the matchups are very close and a great formats or revisit, even though it wasn't that far in the past. I think a lot of people will agree who played in that time that the Zor dampa format was phenomenal. Yes, yeah, well, the decidual I was very underrated. Are Maybe not underrated. I think it saw significant play, but it was definitely not like a go to of a ton of players like at deciety I that year. decidual I was a little underrated, like people thought. It lost a lot harder to the garbodor decks than it did sure, which kind of made it a little underplayed. I think relative to the rest of the year. Sure, sure, so. I mean there's like a very specific type of people that I think of that were like, oh, those were decision I players and they like played that deck forever, you know, for its lifespan of being, you know, a viable card. Yeah, yeah, it was a that was the fun deck to this, a dry vial flume kind of archetype. It was really fun just to get out of the city eyes. Like, honestly, even in viol bloom was a card. It would still be fun to play that deck and it probably would still not be completely awful, right, because getting the getting the extra damage and that and the gigantic hp on the Situa, I was still like a force of your reckon with sure, sure. Speaking of that kind of ZORARC format, I think of Matt's two thousand and seventeen with Zorark Drampa being a deck that Andrew and I and I don't know, did. Did you play it? I can't I did. I wasn't friends with you guys at the time, but I did play that day. That was always a very, very fun deck. I feel like that was a list that probably could have and arguably maybe even should have one that tournament. Just had a decent matchup against the DRAMPA garb deck while also maintaining pretty good matchups against almost everything else, and so I remember that very fondly as well. Any other decks that stick out to you, Riley, over the course of your playing that that you just have love, not...

...maybe we're going past formats, but just specific decks that you've really enjoyed playing. When I think of specific like when I think of my all time favorite decks, I think of that's Ark Deck, at least the ones that I played in like my actual times of player, like ignoring pass formats. I think of that's arc deck. I think of decidual file plume. I think of Zark Glyssa pod that we played at nats and the SPE respectively. That deck was insanely fun and I think we did a really good job constructing that. I think the first iteration auto calls that. And Chat of Wacky smacky, the vile plume deck that we played a console. That was just so fun. It was so memorable, like working with everybody on that too. I've, I don't think before or since I've had a deck that was like such a collaborative effort with my friend group. So that was that was really awesome as well. And, of course, like expanded Zoor Arc for the hex maniac format. You know, obviously I'm biased and I have my sentiments towards it, but that's like was just so insane and so sure. And Riley, yeah, I know it's crazy. You know, we just kind of missed the mark on each other just a little bit. But I think all those kinds of decks and they have a lot in common in the fact that they're like they like try to checkmate their opponents and trap them in board states and capitalize on opponent's mistakes. All of my favorite decks kind of capitalized a lot on mistakes as opposed to just like out aggressing. Sure, that's just some thin I've always really enjoyed and it's very easy to see that like common thread between my favorite decks. Sure, very cool. Anything from the past that you want reprinted? I mean you've played for what three years now, four years, or at least known, you know, started getting to the game maybe four years ago. Any cards that you've seen since you've played past formats that you would like to see come back? To be honest, I would I wouldn't mind like a better baby baby mechanic coming back, or like us to make them or overall just like slowing the format down, making a little more methodical in the way past baby formats have been, but I don't think it's really possible to get back there without at least a couple years of effort put into it. One thing I would kind of like to see back is something like power spray. I think it would need some sort of gating, so power spray was gated behind the SPS and you had to have x amount and play, which could make it sometimes hard to get it on your first turn. But I think some kind of like disruption effect like that could be really fun, or, in general, like more effects like disrupt your opponents, like rampid use of abilities. I think abilities are a little unchecked right now and I would love to see like more things in the game, not to completely shut your opponent out like garbod or can, but to like have a little more, I don't know, interactivity or like thought put into what kind of cards are putting into your deck, because right now you can just kind of go pog wild abilities and nothing can really stop you, especially if it's not on a GX? Yes, of course, of course that's a huge thing. And then even things like you know, the chaotic s well, is kind of that soft counter to power plant, which is what I'm thinking of, is the biggest ability blocker in our current format. Yeah, for sure. What kind of cards in the past do you think of when you think of things you might want to revive? Well, yeah, you talk about ability blocking and for me a card that I've enjoyed playing in my time and past formats is meant cessation crystal, where it just station crystal, is just a card that you know would block the opponents. I don't know ability. I guess back then it would be called power. But...

...let me just read the official text of that card. As long as the Cessation Crystal is attached to the act of Pokemon, each players Pokemon, both the oars and your opponents, can't use any pokey powers or poke body. So that's very cool to me because it has kind of this double edged wording where in order to play cessation crystal you have the negative of not being able to use powers or bodies, now called abilities, and so you know you have the constructor deck around playing Cessation Crystal at the same time, cessation crystal is very good to just shut your opponent out. So if you are able to build your deck and are able to make use of it, it's just a very, very strong mechanic, especially back in the time that it was printed, where there wasn't really that much gusting power. sociation crystal could stick your opponent for a significant portion of the game. Yeah, you know now that I'm thinking about some more another card that I would like to see back, and this might have to have the caveat off once a Wrang Gru rotates, but I think countercatcher was just a phenomenally design card and the only problem is one stuff like a rang gru can like recycle it infinitely and abuse it, sure, but I think just like even throwing counter catcher into like attacking decks that might just happen to fall behind is just so good and it's it's a really fun card to use because you can get built sort of outs that you wouldn't have otherwise where you can like gust while also playing a supporter. especially as boss's orders comes back and you have more supporter based Gust. It was fun to have something like countercatcher that's, you know, a more guaranteed item based Gust but has more work conditions gating it. I really like that card in general. I know you kind of liked it as well, but I've I would be I would be more excited about that card if it was countercatcher but it had even harsher restrictions where it's like you can only play this if you have, you know, three or less prize cards remaining or your opponent only has three less price cards. I think the idea of the spirit of countercatcher is good, right. Yes, yes, I agree, I agree, but the problem with that is, like, you know, you obviously have a stall deck or something where I think it would be a problem if a ranger was gone. But sure, sure. That's why I would definitely say, like, I don't want to back in the context of our ranger exist. Right. So I think the the last card for me that I would want reprinted, and it's not really one specific card, but it's kind of a mechanic of cards. That would just be a boost to the evolution mechanic and we, I think we would both agree that evolving is one of the core tenants to pokemon in general. Yeah, you know, as a series yes, as a serious right. Evolving is always very special, it's always very highly regarded, and so to have a format dominated by basics doesn't really hit the nostalgia button as hard as being able to evolve into these, you know, stage ones and Stage two. So the evolving mechanic, I think of two very specific mechanics where you could get around the way to turn to evolve, which I think is one of the primary gatekeepers for Stage two's but waiting in turn to have to evolve. I think the old rare candy rules, if they were in effect right now, would be totally fine, very balanced and even I'm not really I'm struggling to think of a card that I would say is too too good with the old rare candy rules where you could evolve via rare candy on the turn you played. That basic. The other evolving mechanic that I like is broken time space. That was a stadium card that we saw most recently with forest of giant plants, which orster giant plants only could be used on grass Pokemon, but broken time space could be used on any POKEMON. So like I would think maybe there's like a broken time space that you could nerve slightly where it says, I don't know,...

...like you can only go use this like to evolve one time. What each of your pokemon one time. You know, maybe not all the way up to a stage two, but right they're definitely have to be domine some way that. Yeah, maybe the more like you can only use the effect if you're behind don prizes. I mean that's another you know thing that we were just talking about with counter getcher. There's some way you can maybe make broken time space a little bit more reasonable. But in any case I'd love to see evolving come back into the game and I think those are maybe two possible ways that it could. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's all sorts of ways that evolution could potentially be improved and maybe there's just something new that we haven't thought of yet to write help boost evolution up. But evolution is definitely in a in a grim place right now, if I have to say, with no end in sight. They'll end in sight for the first seeable future. Yeah, IT'S A it's pretty rough out there for evolution decks, which is kind was sad because I think Evelishi ex are really fun. Like it's more fun to me like evolved things up and be methodical with your gameplay and it is to do attach, pass, attach attack kind of thing. But we'll see. We'll definitely see these POKEMON, please. So that is a pretty wide array of stuff. We talked about with these old formats down and actually we we took it a lot longer than I thought it might. I think we had a lot more passion for these formats than we even orisial and it originally realized. So I think that's a perfect time to start opening up to chat questions and you can ask question that old farmats. Can Ask questions about the present day. You can ask questions about how you might adjust the game and thing forward. Really whatever you want. This is your time to play ball with us, and so we'll take probably about five questions from the chat and then we will wrap it up for the night. So thank you all so much for listening. As per usual, we really appreciate it and we're excited to see what you got for us. Yeah, not really question but Audis as and chat evolutions Pokemon. I could do that. I know it's shocking, right, like pokemon that don't draw your cards can actually evolve. It's crazy and it's wild out there. Yeah, I know. Thank you, guys all so much for listening. I just got a message the other day in my inbox that we are the one hundred and ninety nine ranked podcast in the Games division of the should so kind of a very, you know, specific genre. But Hey, I mean I think cavitory more appropriate than division. Let's go. Let's see horse. She had chat asking do you think ATPA or a wranger should be banned anytime soon? I don't. I Hate I hate a Wrang gery. I dislike ATP but I think that they are still within the realm of being not they are gatekeepers, to be sure, but they're not broken in the way that passed cards have been broken. And so, yes, they were strict, a lot of deck building, they cause a lot of headaches and problems and torment, but I think they are going to be able to live their lives out and, you know, come to a to a rotation and just be rotated out naturally. I don't think that they'll be banned anytime especially because for the foreseeable future there's no pokemon tournaments. Or anger is likely lived out its lifespan. A R group was put down a little bit early. So we kind of did get bad, if you think true. That true, that bixtaff and chat chat asking to try to figure out in the expan of format, what is the most damage you think could be done with a single attacks. So this might...

...take some additional thinking, but immediately what comes to mind for me is copying that tyrannatar Agatariannatur gx that does damage for every damage counter against. This is like pretty laborate. But you use the four times weekness BOBLOM. Obviously that's going to be part of it, no matter what. It's not any standard. That's not it's always expanded. So you four times weeks bole bloom, you use mew ex to copy the Nega tyrannatar and then you hit into the the conclder that gets HP for every fighting energy that's on it and then you play a much of plus powers stuff. That's like my initial thought of how to get there. Okay, I could see it, maybe I could. We'll have to run the numbers ourselves and come with our best answer next week. That sounds good. Yeah, we'll do that for sure. It's funny. The only says. I like your Bon yes, it is the source of my power. If you've been listening to any of my streams, you'll know that my power increases my hair gets longer. Is that true? It is, it is. I I'm getting stronger by the day. CONGRATS. Thank you very much, appreciated. Sludge. We're asking and chat any good list for expanded Tina Shop? Honestly, you can probably take Hunter Butler's list not change it a ton and it would still work relatively fine. Maybe I vote a little bit more to being not being able to play support or turn one, but the overall core concept of the list is very solid holds up pretty well. Yeah, all things considered, I don't know that Tina Chop is the best choice, but it's certainly as an archetype, doesn't change all that much. Yeah, speaking of your man Bun, JW, I feel like my hair is getting like kind of log right now because I can't go to the ready. What if we just all get man months? Let's just all make act. Maybe that's just what we gotta do right. Yeah, that's good to me, Bro. How funny would that be? Is like one week you just come back in your hairs in a Bun. That just be so funny. Everyone just has jake acting tears and all our clothes are like torn and tattered. It's like like we had no access to anything, even though that's not how it works. All Right, yeah, I've I was thinking about that last week actually, because my hair was starting to get like a little too big for me last week and I like yeah, yeah, there's no way to deal with this right now. I can mail you are razor. We have an electric razy have an electric razor too, with the adjustable things it, with the blade protectors or whatever. But okay, I taking a razor to my own hair on my actual head, especially in the back, just seems like a dangerous affair to me. Okay, tell you what, fly here to Ohio and then, yeah, should port of lad my way. It might. Honestly, it might be cheaper than getting a haircut, with the caveat that I would have to go through these horrifying airports. Well, I mean, okay, it's a small price to pay. I'm just saying, you get a free haircut. I feel like gas is so cheap I can just drive there and it would be like twenty bucks. That's true. Good Point, good point, let's see it. lets her a chat. Also asking lastly, meat too and expand. It is decent, but I feel that too much is happening in a turney without Trevnar. are in a turney without Trevnar? Is there a list to check allergw? Have you theory Mond mew two in the Sword Shield format at all?...

Yeah, I think the problem with me two is that it just doesn't do enough damage against things like snore las. It obviously gets really hard countered by a deck like Trebnoor and and I'll plan. And so for me me two hasn't been as good as it wasn't in past formats, and especially things like stall that have been showing up pretty consistently at the top tables. I just think, I'm you two is poised to do that. Well, if you're playing attorney, where it has a specific band list, I think. I mean I would say just the most recent cards are are the most recent list are the best. So just take take a look. I think there were a few that got top, thirty two and Dallas. So you know, it sounds, I sound like a broken record, right. Riley's like, well, just take honors list for Tina Chop. But really just the me two lists are all pretty much there. I posted a few really proud of and you could check those on my twitter. Karen and Wagner also made top thirty two in well, I think it was Dallas with me too, and so he would be another good resource to look at. Yeah, for sure. So I see like two more questions in chat. Will probably take those and then wrap up for the evening. So Bob mcdoodle asking rebels at level. Rebel clash set review coming soon? I could definitely see us doing something along those lines in the coming weeks and we're always open to new ideas for what we should be doing, especially during this particularly strange time, unprecedented. Yeah, so I don't know if we'll do a full set review. I could definitely see us doing like a top ten hits and top ten misses. That might be something fun that we could approach. But we'll definitely do something at rebel clash, probably not for at least a couple weeks here, but it's on our radar sure. And then last question here. What are your thoughts about bringing double gusts back? As a supporter as opposed to lie standard reprint? I could definitely see that being an interesting thing. We don't really have a precedent for double guests for quite a while now, but there's a lot of heavy pokemon that could usually now get you punished. So I could definitely see it being a good option. Yeah, that sounds a little more balanced than Gouzma, but still being I could still be exploited. I would be word. I mean, you know, you just play a don wings in a balloon all a sudden, like it doesn't matter if they try to like mess with you. See. Yeah, I'm I would be a little nervous about saying that that is the counter to goose my. I think Goosema was just the best gust effect that we've ever had and probably it will for the foreseeable share, which so I really hope that they don't bring the mechanic back. Even if it is nerved in, even that slight amount, even if it's nerve like that, seems like it might be enough. But I do agree with Riley my. Definitely wouldn't. I hope, I hope that that one doesn't come back. Right. Yeah, I can just definitely see a ton of ways where double gusts with the downside of a double ghost, which just be ignored or just very easily played around. Sure exactly? I don't think it would really be that much different than having lysander and the present day, especially with every deck playing like somebody switches right right, absolutely me. So I want to say one thing, Riley, before you closes out here. Thank you, guys all, so much for listening. If you're listening on a podcasting APP, please make sure to rate our podcast and leave a comment. This will do a couple things. That will make us easier to find for other people and it will just, you know, make me really happy. So if you want to make us easier to find and you want to make me personally happy, please make sure to rate our podcast and bring a smile to both of our faces for sure. Oh it would also bring a s smile to Riley space. So I didn't say you'd say.

I just say to be had, I would smile. Well, I think when I get happy I smile every time. I guess you're right. I did type Lmao today, but I fee type at Lavao, but not laughing. We're just people. People be type in Lmao and not even laughing. In present day we're cracking down on that. We're going to send the police. If you ever send me a text Riley, that says Lmao and you still have your butt attached, then I am going to send the police to your house. I'm going to start Freakin Raful malling. Dude, watch out for that. Dude. I get, you get. Just helped me with that good rawful copper. You ever bring it back? Rafael Copter, for sure, Rafel copper coming well. Thank you all so much for listening. As youw said, we appreciate all of you and we will catch you next week with some more awesome tag team content. Beast out everyone,.

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