Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 4, Episode 48 · 2 months ago

4-48. Urshi? Mally? Caly? Oh my!


The boys are back and trying out some ROGUE decks leading up to the 2022 Pokemon World Championship. Come listen into the wild ideas we are throwing at the wall in addition to a deep dive into Palkia.

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Yo, what is up? Guys? Welcome back to tag team Pokemon, Trading Card Games Premier podcasting duo. My name is Raley Hulbert, joined as always by my good, good friend Mr J W creewall. J W. How's it going today, Roley? It's going pretty well. I'm doing I'm doing good. I'm in a I'm in a centered zone. I'm feeling good with the FAM. I'm like feeling okay at work, not great, feeling okay at Pokemon. On the UP, on the up trend. We want our team challenge last week. M Hm. And just personally feeling good. How about yourself? I'm doing all right. I'm doing alright. I've been pretty stressed out lately. I also had a very weird, like very like you ever have those dreams that are just completely bizarre but you're like in it, you know you're in it for the hall Um. I had one of those the other day. I took some Melotonein and I was just like entrenched in this really like a real feeling dream. That was like also very bizarre. Looking back on it. Um, and I'M NOT gonna be the guy who talks about his dreams, but Um, that was that's like affected me almost. It's like affected my mental state just because it was so stupid and lame, but also stressful. Um, yeah, I've I've been good. I've been good. I'm working on some really cool stuff right now for for work. Um, I'm really excited for the world championships in a month. Got My p two, I proved, got my flights booked at the hotel situation I'll figured out so rare and to go at this point and you know, it's just an exciting time all around. Who Doesn't love the wonders of summer in Madison, Wisconsin? Absolutely, yeah, I really liked Wisconsin all the Times that I've been there. Yeah, I actually just got back from I went to like the concert on the squares, what they call it, and it's the like the Madison Orchestra plays in like the Capitol Square. Um So, me and a couple of friends from work we got a blanket, we sat out on the square. He played just a quick little board game, ate some charcuterie. It was awesome. That sounds so lovely. It was lovely. As a great descriptor, I'd say it's one of those, you know, core memories that you've made it as a young adult, something like that at least. But the gears keep churning in the pokemon world, J W, and there's plenty to talk about today. So we're gonna kick things off by talking about some of the new developments in the competitive pokemon space. We'll dive into after that what we've been working on in this format leading up to the world championship. Then, after the car of the day and ad read, we'll talk more specifically about Palkia, doing a little bit of a deep dive, just like we did with Archias last week. Sounds good. So let's just start from the top man, with the big news. Everyone's been waiting for this and two new star study casts have entered the POKEMON space. That is, the Rare Candy Pokemon team by Leon Hart and the new and revived, or I guess the new, improved shuffle squad. Got A new roster announcement. Some some familiar names and faces joining the shuffle squad. The team seemed to be all the rage right now in the Pokemon Spaceh W. Yeah, they are, and it kind of makes sense right. We had no real reason to have team affiliations because there weren't any I raal tournaments for the last three years and now that we're getting back into kind of a rhythm and a Groove, although monkey pox is doing its best to derail that. But Um, now that we're getting back into reality, now that we're getting back into a groove, it's cool to see that there are movers and shakers trying to Um, you know, increase their influence within the pokemon sphere and create these teams. So, g w what is your like high level thoughts on kind of the the teams in the POKEMON space? I feel like we hear all sorts of different opinions when you go about in the online forums and twitter and facebook and all that stuff. What are your personal thoughts? Well, I think it's good as a whole, because I think pokemon has a lot of opportunity in that space. Right Pokemon doesn't really have a lot of money coming in from, you know, uh, e. sports organizations, so I think that there's a real opportunity for people to kind of maybe get ahead of the market. On the flip side of that, what market is there to get ahead of? You know, because we've seen people try this in the past. Asked two varying degrees of success and you just...

...wonder the you know, the influence behind some of these decisions. Right, in the past we've seen things like Um, you know, the team D D G that played for the store, the Um, you know, for Danny's store, and they were very successful, but I don't necessarily know that they brought any more revenue to the store, right. And then eventually things kind of disbanded. They disbanded, things fell apart Um, and so I wonder for you know, these other teams, Um, for for rare candy, especially being affiliated with the with the rare candy brand, the store Um Um, you know, the Lee and Hart runs. I wonder just how much you know, they can bring Um as an entity, as a competitive content creation team. I wonder how much value they can bring to Um, to a store. So that's kind of the big question in my mind right. It's like what is what is the and I was talking about this on my stream the other night, but what is the benefit for somebody like Leon Hart or for whoever, you know is like taking the primary financial risk in the shovel squad? If there is any money attached to their pro team? Um, what is it bringing to the person that is running that and I'm just not able to say because we've seen these models in the past and they really haven't worked out that well. Um, they've worked out on a maybe an emotional level, like there's a lot of team spirit and there's a lot of good feelings in the community and, you know, people root for their teams or whatever, but in terms of the financials, I just don't quite see the benefits there. Yeah, definitely makes sense. Like maybe I'm not, you know, I think, I think I'm picking up what you're trying to say. At least you know, it's what does the value add to the organizations or, you know, the individuals that are, you know, trying to build this team? Because ultimately you think of, you know, you think of a team solo made, you think of a cloud nine, you think of it. You know, all these other sports organizations that exist in all these other games. What is their endgame? Right? It's to let's make money, right, it's to just to gather sponsorships and raise money. Um, and ultimately the sponsorships are gathered by providing the value to the sponsors, you know, because your products are being driven and sold. Um, and I don't think pokemon quite has that and I think the main reason, if I had to place my finger on it, is, well, maybe one of several reasons rather, but one of the main reasons, I think that you'll struggle to see that in pokemon is because people don't really get super attached to like individual sellers or markets when it comes to trading cards. I don't think Pokemon is unique in that space. You know, people are going to go onto their online marketplaces, find the cheapest copy of the card they can find that has the lowest shipping, add that to their card and by those right, like you're not the market. The market wins generally speaking. Yeah, right, and so, like you don't see a lot of like brand loyalty in things like Pokemon cars because you're getting the same product everywhere. It's just how cheap can you get it for? So I think that's part of the problem. Um, I think another part is it's just not a lot of money flowing in the space. There obviously is like tons of singles and stuff that are moving, but in the grand scheme of things there's not a lot of like big ticket buying and selling in pokemon cards. Um, so the end result is you know these businesses are not getting a ton of value. Inevitably, what we've seen is they ultimately like back out of the team they're unable to financially support it and the players just move on to the next team that will financially support them again temporarily and then back out. Um. And it's it's funny because you see kind of like the same sub steps of people like just bounce between all these different teams and, you know, run them dry then then leave. And I have nothing against those people like get the bag or whatever, but as you've seen it, you know, we see it over the last year. You know, probably like six years that this has really been a thing. Um, we've seen it happen over and over again. Um, from the player perspective, I I also don't think a lot of the teams necessarily like collaborate super heavily when it comes to like deck building it, at least if you're not like already friends going into it. You know, I was on a team with a store for a brief period of time. It's a story I liked, and I still did not like work with my peers on my decks in that team because we just weren't friends. We were like business partners, you know. Um.

So I think DDG was like the only lightning in a bottle that really captured the spirit at least of a team. Um, because they were friends and they were playing the same deck and they were winning every event together and that felt special, even if it wasn't like, obviously it didn't add enough value to like the team itself, because it eventually disbanded. Um, but that at least captured the spirit and like people can get behind that conceptually be like yeah, you know, and I think I was going to say like largely it was, I would say it was successful, even if it didn't withstand the test of time, because it had one, a two, three year run where, you know, everything worked just kind of okay, one and a half years, but but everything was really yeah, it was really high. There's a lot of hype around that. There was there was a lot of just generation of but that felt like interest. To the point where I'm going is that felt like lightning in a bottle and I don't think other teams have been able to recreate that spirit and that energy, and part of it is I don't think you'll be able to recollect that same kind of group in the same way. Uh. Part of it is that the player base has just gotten better over time, uh, and the decks have gotten somewhat simpler. So there's like you're not going to see people come up with these like crazy decks as often and to sweep entire tournaments every single tournament. You know, the closest we really saw that was maybe toward last season and then somewhat Isaiah Bradner's group last season, but even then we were not seeing like the clean sweeps like we do with DDG UM. And part of that like the way the game is evolved, as well as the player base. Um. And then the third part is it just feels like some of that excitement and energy that was around the game at that time it's somewhat diminished as well, and I don't know how to describe it, but Um, if I feel like people aren't as invested into like the stories of players these days as they were like maybe pre covid really? You don't think so? I don't think so. No, interesting, yeah, because that, I mean, that's not really quantifiable. No, it's not. It's like I'm not going and I'm not going out and interviewing people. So maybe it's just completely wrong, but that's just the sense I get. I don't know, man, I feel I feel like the storylines are are pretty high. I feel like maybe they're ramping back up. I feel like it's maybe it needs to ramp up. You know, maybe it's just not. You can't dive back into it. You know, obviously you look at like Azulvers, Isaiah at any I see it was very cool to see that. It was very hyph yum, but I don't know if you're seeing that same energy to like the quite the same degree as during the D D G Era, and maybe it's maybe just a matter of time. More than any things, we're just getting used the season was kind of Wonky. We're getting used to the game being back stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean you just think about all this stuff. I think about it, you know, financially speaking, and maybe it's not an issue for somebody like Leonhardt right who already has a successful brand, who's not looking to really build anything right. He's already established these and I don't want to speak necessarily financially for him because I don't know where he's at. But it feels like these are kind of side projects, you know, where it's like, well, if it doesn't work out, you know, his whole his whole life isn't kind of devoted to the success of rare candy, and so because of that, you know, it's it's kind of just, you know, dreams and doing it for the community and trying to generate hype and trying to get into a new space and seeing what that would do for his brand, right, and if it flops, no big deal, and if it's a success, then you know, hey, he's kind of a leader in the competitive space. So I think I think it's cool right to have somebody like that, because we haven't really had that. If you look at the teams of the past, they're usually card stores that are trying to make a name for themselves, right, and so they're bringing on these players to generate the hype around the store, like we've talked about. But with a team like rare candy and Leonhardt, they're already pretty established in what they do. Trying to branch out a little bit, sure, and build up a name, but it's not to be all end all. You know, if it doesn't work out, it's chill. Now you look at some team like shuffle squad, and that's a team that's really trying to generate some some hype, some interest. And so, yeah, financially, I just don't know what that looks like at all. Like the pro team. Are they paying players? Are They not playing? Like nobody? Well, they know, but I don't know. But like how, how do you generate interest, um, you know there and make it financially profitable? I don't I don't know that that's really here's my perspective and like I almost I almost feel like to find it. You're just throwing you're throwing money into fire when it comes to pokemon teams. Like the finances aren't there period Um, or they haven't been in the past history, and I don't think they're coming anytime soon, to be honest. But Um, and maybe I'm wrong, like please prove me wrong. Yeah, that'd be cool if I'm wrong. Um, but I also want to take the perspective of,... know, what is the value that the teams are adding to the game? You know, I see a lot of people talk about, Oh, you know, we're more e sports now because we have these teams, but like, are we really you know, like what are these teams actually contributing, because sometimes it just feels like, you know, you have these businesses that are coming in. They want to make they want to try and be bigger and make more money and they see Pokemon as a way to do that. Um, and it doesn't work out so they just back out and leave. If we don't have that, if it doesn't have the staying power, I almost feel like don't come in the first place. You know, Um, I don't know, it just it doesn't feel like we're more legitimized just because people are writing jerseys. It feels like if we want to be more legitimized, we want to we want to spread the scene out, we want people to know about it and like accept it, and just having like these local, internalized teams doesn't move that needle. Yeah, and that's what is interesting about the you know, Leon Hart. I think Leon Hart is maybe the first time we've really seen someone kind of like new enter the space who could maybe bring more people to Pokemon. Yeah, and I think, I mean you've seen that. I think like the other parallel that I could make that was kind of like it's kind of like a pseudo parallel because, you know, boo was already somewhat of a competitive player, maybe went to tournaments and, you know, did that, Um, before kind of jumping more so into the competitive space, right. But Frost, to Cariboo would be somebody that I looked to as well as being like okay, they were primarily one type of interaction with pokemon cards, openings and Um, you know, uh, yeah, pack opening, some product openings and then moving, shifting more towards hey, this is how you play the game. Here's you know, tutorials, walkthroughs Um, you know, competitive videos and things like that, and has really garnered interest, taking a lot of her, you know, fan base from pack openings and such and getting them interested in the right song and could have the potential to do that. I'm I'm curious how invested he will be personally and like seeing that succeed because ultimately, like Leonhart's brand is based on himself, right, like he is, he's the guy. So how connected is he going to be to the competitive space, right, because, you know, I love all the guys, Andrea Candy, they're awesome, but I don't think there are the people who are going to pull people in from Leon Heart's channel because they go to his channel for Leon Hart, I think at least you know. Yeah, yeah, that's I mean that's a whole another can of worms that I don't necessarily want to get into. But I think some aspect of this team and like pulling people in is like who you have on the team in their poll, you know, the house. Certainly that's interesting there. You know, like if you're getting people, you know, it's kind of like a pyramid scheme, right, the guy at the top is trying to get more people, to get more people. No, I'm not, I'm not. I'm just saying that it's similar to right, because if you're trying to get into a new spaces funnels stuff. Yeah, but you know what I mean, right, like the cloud is very important, right. Cloud has to kind of trickle out, uh, you know, to get people excited. Right. So, well, I don't. So what I'm saying is I'm curious like how directly investedly in heart, like will he regularly mentioned it on his channel and like you know, or will this just be like a side project that fades away from his main audience, or will it be a side project that explodes in just a different space? Right, and he and he can kind of keep them separate. That that'll be really cool to see. You know, how long it lasts, we don't know. But I wish everyone the best on every team that's out there and everyone that's thinking of, I don't know, joining a team or creating a team or doing something, anyone that puts money into this hobby, I am going to give a big thumbs up and a you know, I'm going to root for you, especially if that line is coming to the TAG team podcast. Well, I was going to say there is one team that has stood the test of time. Teams, Oh, the one team you could always count on to show up. Hey, we haven't. We haven't folded yet. Not yet. All, I get more and more sick of you by the week. Well, that's fair, but you started out pretty high. So I think we have a ways to get I started way up there. Now I'm like, I have a sea level right now. Yeah, so we got we got another like two years at least. We're looking we're trying to like hit the depths of the ocean that that cuts. We're gonna be like, uh, the mythbusters guys, you know, don't they hate each other's they don't hate each other, but they don't talk at all outside of building. Oh, no way. You know we're gonna be those guys, like all right, see it quick way you can save that. If you want to support our ongoing friendship is to Buyo orchandise.

Yeah, continue, I think so. For the unaware, we do actually have our merchandise on the verge the cusp of readiness. So be on the lookout on our twitter social media for updates there. Um, you've probably already seen if you've been involved the design. We're really excited about it. Um, so just keep your eyes out for actual ways to get purchased and involved. Yeah, I would expect sometime in the next week our our distributors able to ship. Not to go on too far the tangent, but our distributors able to ship by next Wednesday. So look to see some sales going up in the next week. I know I said that last week, but for real this time, like we actually we well, it just takes time to produce this stuff, right. So, and I will be repping at worlds. Yes, that will be absolutely true. And if you're going to worlds and you want to shirt, hit us up and we don't have to pay for delivery. To a point. We can't. We can't bring all of this seven carry on Polish shirts and then you can put your world's merchant it. Wait, that's Jes okay. Anyway, I think we beat the we beat the horse about pokemon teeth. The horses like cringing and flailing on the ground. It's not pretty. Um. So let's talk then about the world championships. You know we're going. We're wrapping our merch and what are the ideas that we've kind of been tossing around? So last week we talked about kind of the kings of the format, we talked about the archeuses, we talked about the Palkias. Now I think we're more interested to hear what are some of the more interesting or deeper down ideas that we've been trying. I think first off, something JB and I have both been trying is or she food. The big bear, or she foos has evolved over time. If you haven't been super plugged into or she food, now it's more of a Rita radiant blast joys, set up your Yogol loops kind of deck, as opposed to Um having the slew of one of supporters to do all these crazy different things and you instead have a much more reliable strategy in that Arita to set up quickly in the early game and continue to chain those Italians to get your items Um, and the blast voice, of course, is awesome. Let's you start sniping. That does reduce you to only being able to play water energy, whereas before you would play, you know, maybe darks or grass or fighting Um. So you do have to be more careful about your rapid strike energies because they are needed to use your she foo in many cases. But the deck is really cool. You know it's a it's able to set up some really awesome combos with the blast Oye and the scoop up nets and the yoga loops. You obviously have our sheet food to hit archaeas for weakness, and bear in mind many archias are not playing down sparse right now. They've opted to cut those tech one risers, and you have the ever amazing gmax wrap and flow to get rid of your opponent's sobbles and drisiles off the bench or soften up their multi price pokemon. JW, you were talking a little bit before the cast about what you've been trying. I've been trying or Sheefoo as well. What are some of your preliminary thoughts on that deck? As a rogue pick for the World Championship? I played about ten games with RFU and I was playing about as I don't know. I ripped the list. I was going to say about as straightforward as you can get, but I don't even know that that's true because I was playing Voo with Pulkia, and so you have kind of this dual attacker. Yet Hey, chill, chill Um. I mean in terms of the counts, like, I wasn't I don't know, it was like four of everything, or, you know, very, very streamlined, I guess. So weren't like a lot of texts outside of the yeah, yeah, so, and then you have your radio blast stories trying to set up that damage on the bench. I don't know that it has what it takes, because I do feel like there were enough decks that I was playing on the ladder that either played the man of fee, like the Palky decks generally are playing the man IFEE, not for the Ursh food but more so for the mirror so they don't get too of their sopples sniped by rating Greninja and so that was kind of the biggest thing. I was playing a couple of Palkya decks and and they just went for a man if he early and I found that the deck just lost a lot of power, right because hitting one twenty into an active or like one fifty, it's it's kind of hard to switch that Ursh foo because you're mostly looking to do the snipe down or like move into the active one time and then do the snipe thing and they kind of do that same thing again with a second Ersh fo right, and so if you're not able to do that, then you're not able to utilize the snipe. It gets really awkward. So that's kind of what happened. To give a brief synopsis. As they would get out the man ifee early, I would be stuck trying to...

...switch out my active. I only played about four or five switch cards, so it didn't happen every single time and I would just get my foos knocked out before they could take meaningful knockouts. So it was tough. I didn't really like the deck. It didn't flow very well. The blast toys was pretty mid and I just did not have a very good time with it. That's there's strong words. I'm open to like a new list coming into my life and changing everything. But this Pulkia Ersha Foo list that I had going on, you know, I was thinking, okay, maybe maybe I can swing with an Ersha Foo and then and then I can switch into a Pulkia. But a lot of times it was weird because, like, the hands would get really clunky and you're relying on either a luminion early or you're relying on a crow bat, but sometimes there's just not enough things to discard in your hand to get down to a meaningful crow bat. And then if you don't get water energy in the discard early, then you're really only playing melanie, or at least in my build, to accelerate the energy. So it just there were a lot of things that just weren't happening in my list. The Elis sounds very different than the one I was trying I do kind of agree with some of the core things that you were saying. Even if, however, you're playing the deck because just not well, I wasn't playing an italianline. So if you were playing Intellian, then it's probably the main different. Then that's gonna be very, very different. Yeah, I was playing it kind of more crow bat focused and more Melanie focused. I don't like that for sure. Well, I definitely don't like that. Yeah, no, that was that was definitely a little bit a little bit wild and crazy on your side. I was playing a more familiar, like Arita, Italian version of a deck like that, and it probably felt better than whatever you're describing, if I had to wager, I guess. Um, it still didn't quite feel amazing. Blast always still felt kind of mid even with more direct access to the tools to make it work, I was often like strapped to bench it at the right time, Um, when I needed to also have like my attackers and my drigsiles and stuff and play. Um. So that was sometimes a little bit annoying. I did like the ARETA combination of Arita and octillery. What was really cool, because then you can you get the rumor raids in addition to the sople. We'll get the artillery in addition to the drags Ileum, and that let you have a lot of access to your rapid strike energies without playing a crappy card like peers, which was very nice. Um. So I did enjoy that I did have some of the same problems that you're describing, though, where against the Palkias, if they got a manifee down at the right time and I couldn't really deal with it, and then I would be often be in these awkward situations where I'm just swinging for to hit knock US and they're swinging for two hit knockouts. But my guys were of three prizes. There's is worth two. So the trade doesn't quite work out as you wanted to Um. On the plus side, I had a lot of games that I kind of just want on the spot. By playing Roshifu, you know, against archaist decks that weren't playing. It done spars. You just, you know, even just use the second attack on the Ershifu vie and they're really a hundred furious blows and they're furious, you know, so furious. So that felt really good on the flip side. So I don't know, I'm kind of waffling. I would love to make a deck like that really good because I have always liked Ershifu. You know, ever since battle styles dropped I've really enjoyed playing erschi food DEX. I've played a lot, even though I'm playing Erschifu and tournaments. This season I played a ton of it on the ladder, probably unhealthy amount, and so I wanted to work, I wanted to be good. I think I need like a few more cars to really get there and I don't know how you fit them in addition to everything else that you need. It's just it's hard, hard to build those kinds of decks, honestly. Yeah, one of the cool things that I was able to do once was I had, you know, blast toys that I'd used the turn before and I had pinned a manifee and then I used to scoop up nets, uh, you know, two on a subsequent turn I painted and then to scoop up net and then pined again, pinned again, and so that was kind of cool because I was able to knock out the manifee with the blast toys, especially if he played the Z execute as well. Right, sure, and so that was like, Oh yeah, maybe I can swing the Mat. And I still ended up losing that. I think it was to an archaist deck um that he's had. Yeah, I know, I know. I like pinged the the Dune spars or they prized it or something, and then I was able to pick the manifee and then I sniped for a knockout and put damage on the other and I still ended. Listen, man, this is where I kind of I kind of knew were not playing the tag team. Hot Take of the day is we're not playing or she food by a crow.

Bad. That's my yeah, that was cringe, because if it can't beat the archiest deck after sniping out all their one prizes, then we have a problem. Oh Yeah, we definitely do. Yeah, so, I mean you need to just show me your ways, if you wouldn't mind. Yeah, for sure. With deck, we have to do some testing on that. Absolutely. So, Er fo, we haven't. We've written off one bearing of it, but maybe not too Um, and it's a deck that I kind of like. I don't love it, but I kind of like it. G W, you mentioned that you've also been trying to a deck I haven't touched with a ten foot pull in a while and that's Malamar. It's going pretty bad. I'm running into the same problem where Paul Kia just kind of beats me right because they have a two eighty boy and they can shove three of them match you and then they can intersperse another one prizeer in the middle of that. They can either get an early rating Grennchia and just completely win on the second turn of the game or third turn of the game if you can't find your man ifee. And then they also just have their intelligence, which can take a prize in that midgame and then they're just gonna be faster than you. They're going to kind of take whatever they want on your side of the field. If they're going for, you know, your loan sobble, they can reliably do that on the second turn. If they're going for your loan ink, they can reliably do that. Um, you know. They're just much, a much more easily able to get those attacks off and even if they don't, uh you know, they aren't able to target down something just taking that knockout on the active there's likely not the the strength of the MALMAR DEC like. It's likely not going to be able to take three straight two knockouts. Is What I've found. So it's been tough. That's been just really frustrating because I thought, okay, maybe Malamar could make a resurgence. Obviously we talked about Ross coffin doing pretty well at any I see with the list, but it didn't quite pan out for me and I played about twenty games with it and just was getting awkward hands. Says Malamar does. We talked about that a lot extensively in past formats and just it also feels like to me where it needs to be. When I was trying Malmar early in this format, I guess that the last format, I guess, prior to any I see. Um Rock sand felt really annoying. I don't know if you felt the same way, but that was just a great way to safeguard like the one extra turn for them to take a knock out, so they usually couldn't take a one hit Ko after that and then even with actillery to get like a Carina's. You know you don't want to these Karna sing at that pro in the game, right exactly. Yeah, that's a good point. The Rock sand, I'll have to check my notes, but I don't remember that being a particularly big factor. But it wasn't a huge fact here. It's just like it's one more thing, right. Well, sure, yeah, getting down to like the three prize and being able to Roxanne and yeah, it's just tough. It's just tough. And if you aren't able to draw out of it, then and the crazy thing is like archias decks, especially the Palkia Deck, because you could theoretically attack with the Palkia, then attack with Inalian, then Roxanne, then Palpad, then roxand again, just keep doing it. That's suck. Yeah, so I tried the Alamar deck. Not, not good. Hid reviews are in neither decks of parked. Third idea that we've been thrown at the wall ice rider, Cali rax ice riders, something I've been trying a lot personally. I've tried some of like Frank's kind of variant, you know, more be doof heavy, more a dedicated ice rider kind of deck. I've also tried playing closer to a Palkia deck but with a you know, middling, like three, three, three to type of ice frider. In that Um I think both of them ended up having kind of the same problem and I don't think it's necessarily enough to write the decks off, but the problem I kept having was just them being a little bit inconsistent. You know, when I think of the top two decks, the Palki and the Archaeus, the big selling point for both of them is they're just absurdly consistent, and ice rider didn't quite check that box, but it did check the box of a really high power ceiling. You know, I felt with the ice rider decks, if I hit everything I needed to on the first two turns, I was unbeatable. But I would not hit that at the same frequency of a more straightforward deck like archaeus and Palkia. I will say, though, like the math of two eighties, especially with mew falling further and further further off people's radars, is so good right now it's absurd how good of a damage number to hit two eight is. And often your opponents can't immediately respond to an ice rider, so you're taking double knockouts with that sucker. That's true.

I think one of ice riders main weaknesses from last formats was mew, for a number of reasons. First reason being mew for the most part was going to be a two shot unless you had damaged modifiers like the Ha Lucha or the Leon, but that's just clunking up your deck even more in an already clunky deck. And then the other reason that mew was kind of a bad matchup for you is if they could get a Gena sect, or haven't forbid to Gena sect attacking, then that was just lights out right being able to take a one shot on your big dude, in addition to the one shot, the exactly exactly so um. You know, you think, if well, if if mew is kind of falling off, then maybe there's an opportunity here for ice rider, because I do agree with you that the numbers that ice rider can hit are really enticing. It's just what you want to have and like a first attack that's pretty sasonable, generally low maintenance, you know, two attachments or a melanie or if you're playing a poky line like it gets even easier, and then you're just swinging turn after turn. It's like kind of a brain dead deck, to which I mean it's like a brain deck can't be very good, you know, yeah, you know, you're not going to mess it up unless you're right well, and that's I mean that's something that I talked about with people all the time. It's like if I'm choosing between, you know, Super Heavy Combo deck and brain dead deck, and I feel like they're both going to perform equally well at a tournament, I'm always going to choose a brain dead deck, like it doesn't matter. You know, it's only vanity at that point if you're just trying to jump through a bunch of hoops, right. So I will agree that that. The ice riders just feels Nice for that in that you're just kind of attacking. You know, you're doing your thing. You're trying to hit two eight, like that's your modus operandi. When you go from there. You felt so cool and you said that and then paused, didn't you? I did, I just wanted you to say it. So I think. I think of the three decks that we are talking about today, ice fighter is the one that probably entices me the most, although Ershifu isn't that far behind. I'm not really that interested in Malbar Malamar's fallen off Orsha Fu. I just need more better lists. I need more reps of the better list. But we were kind of saying too before the cast, like we'd feel totally fine going with archaeus or Palkia, like those are just the torch bears and it's very obvious in our testing where those decks are the ones if we're gonna lose it's gonna be to those things. I've been playing a bit more with the chars aard variants. I've been making some switches in my list. Um, I've given the list out to some people. They've had some pretty good success in online and I R L tournaments, so I'm excited about that as well. And I think even straight archias Italian has been working out pretty well for me. So it's just about getting like those final texts, like I've been trying in straight archias, doing two quick shooters, try to get a little bit more damage on the board at quicker m yeah, man, exactly. Yeah, so that's been kind of fun. I've been trying that out, doing things like tool scrapper. I ever heard of it? Yeah, so still some things to decide there. I haven't much to consider list. Well, we'll keep you all posted as we continue through our testing journey up to the world championship just a couple of weeks away now. We're very excited and we're going to brew up something amazing, as we always do. But with that, I think it's a perfect time to transition into our card of the day, and so, j w the card of the day today is one that's very special to me, but you might not know why when you just know the card. So I'm gonna give you a hint as to what the card is. I won't give you a deck entry as time, but a hint. It is a mega pokemon that evolves from an e x that is still used and expanded today. Mm Hmm, it's a good guess or a good clue. Mega Pokemon, I'm trying to think of itself is not used. Yeah, I know, I know. That's the that's the problem, because I'm thinking about all the usable mega pokemon and I'm not considering their basic forms. Oh, the mega is not used, but the basic still is. I feel like there's somebody listening to this that's just screaming right now, just just screaming. They know the answer right off the top of...

...there. It'll feel silly and you know the answer because a little it is silly. It's silly. So I won't feel bad if I don't know it. You might feel bad, but you shouldn't. Okay, then tell me. You gotta give it, you gotta throw something out. I was gonna say Guardivore, but that's yeah. So the base e X is laudios e x one of the few ex is that still actually sees played, expanded for exactly the reasons you don't want it to see play. But the mega pokemon is mega audios e x with the Sonic aSee attack. Water is like a colorless you do damage to want to be your opponents pokemon. Pretty useless attack. It's only ever been used to Snipe Shavens, and even then it's questionable if that was good. But the reason that this card is close to my heart is when I was in my Sophomore Year of college, my friends and I were really into just buying packs just for fun. Uh, and I still really enjoy opening packs, I just don't buy them as often. So we would, you know, I was at school to house states, so we would walk down to the game stop that was just south of the campus and we'd pick up packs and we'd always be feedding for two different packs, the fandom forces packs for the vs seekers and the roaring skies packs for the Shaman e x potential and so and both these packs were kind of like past their prime at this point, so they weren't always like guaranteed to be in stores. We go to the game stop, there's a bunch of roaring skies packs, so we buy them all. There's like nine packs. We distribute the AL amongst the three of us and I pull the Megalotios e x and like Oh, this is sick, this is so cool. It's a mega pokemon. My friend, on the other hand, pulls a Shaman E X and I really wanted that Shaman because I was going to in the process of building a dark right e x deck, as you may have heard, my dark right Hypno deck. I was trying to build that Um and none of my friends really cared to have shaman in their deck. So I traded the megal audios for the shaven. We weren't really caring about the value. It was just to help complete my deck and that was my first ever Shaman e x of my eventual like six, but it was one of two that were pulled from packs. This was a regular art and then later that day we went to a target on the other side of Columbus and I pulled the full art. Let's go. So it's a very successful day for Riley Shaman Adventures and it was all started with the megal audios e X. Beautiful Story, beautiful story shout out to my friend Thomas, who gracefully gave me. He knew it was like a bad trade. We both knew it was about trade, which it was mostly in the spirit of like me being able to complete my deck without proxies. That's so nice. Yeah, I mean we were we lived in the same like room. If you wanted to shave it, I would just given it to him right. But yeah, wholes in story. So that is the card of the day, which means it's time to thank our friends over at Manscape. J W. Why don't you tell us a little bit about our presenting sponsor for the PODCAST and manscaped? Well, it's officially summertime, Riley, and everyone talks about looking good for the warmer months, but few have the balls to do it. Well, it's time to not up or shut up and take the easiest step to looking good and feeling fresh this summer by using man escaped. Manscape products have been in our lives for the better part of the last year, and I can say wholeheartedly I do not regret it. Be Part of the last year. Well, as soon as manscape entered my life, things got a lot cleaner, things got a lot smoother, there were less nicks, there were less cuts, my wife's been happier. I don't that might just be correlation, not necessarily causation, but I digress. A lot of things have improved over the course of our sponsorship with Manscape, all due to their fantastic products. I've loved the ear and nose hair trimmer Riley, massive fan of the underwear. I'm actually wearing the manscape boxers right now. Oh Dude, underweary buddies. Yeah, so, I mean, there you go. You heard it here. So good, so products that we use every single day and can't get enough of. We seriously do enjoy the manscape products, from their shavers to their underwear to their grooming kits. All of it's really awesome high quality stuff,...

...and the great part is that you can take part of it by using our code over at Manscape DOT com. So all you gotta do open up your browser, head on over to Manscape DOT COM, look through some of the items, maybe throw a few of them in your cart, and then when you're at checkout, and this is when things get important, you're gonna want to put in the code tag team. Code Tag team will give you not only off, but also free shipping. And who wants to pay for shipping in the year twenty two? Not Me, that's for sure. So head on over to man escape. Use Our code. It supports the podcast and it supports your health and grooming by making sure that you're looking good and feeling fresh. Yeah, absolutely, turn your a lowland Doug Trios into regular Doug Trios. Go with Manscape Code. TAG team at check out, plus free shipping. That's code tagged. Youma checkout plus free shipping. Awesome. So let's talk, then, for the last few minutes of this episode, about Palkia. Now we all know Palkia. I don't think we have to explain why Pakia is powerful. Pakia has made a name for itself ever since it appeared onto the scene. So I'm more curious than about why you might choose to not play Palkia. Pakia seems to be the front runner in this format. If you're going to worlds, what would dissuade you, J W, from considering this deck? One of the biggest things that would dissuade me. It's not necessarily arise in lightning attackers. I think that while it does have a slightly unfavorable matchup against a deck like Archias, Pikachu or any deck with Raiku, potentially, you know, depending on how the build is laid out. Um, I don't think that an increase in lightning attackers would make me not consider Palky I think it's just that good. But what would make me consider or reconsider Palkia for the World Championships is if I felt that there would be a rise install decks, specifically the Mewtwo v Union stall deck. That really scares me because Paulky is damage is very dependent on the opponent. You know, it's only it's only slight right. You can hit up to, you know, one ninety, maybe two ten, depending on if you have quick shootings or Zigzagoons, to twenty, you know, on your own side of the field, and Leon can even add to that. But with a Pokemon like MEW Two v Union, they can really in a deck like the stall deck that utilizes it, they can really limit their bench and heal every single turn and that's kind of frightening. Yeah, Palkia definitely struggles against those Solo Pokemon, active tanky kind of deck. That also applies to stone as well. That's not quite a stall deck, but it deals with Palkia in a similar way to im YouTube Union of one gigantic Pokemon and the active and your opponent can't deal with it. I think that is a valid case. I would also argue a reason that I would maybe consider not playing PALKIA. It's just the sheer prevalence of palkia itself. Uh. Now, obviously palculists can be teched to beat the mirror a little bit more effectively. You have cards like quick shooting and Leon, heavier inclusions of choice belts, for example, or even tecking in like an ice rider to like maybe make that matchup a little bit better. But I think in practice, when you actually sit down at the table, it often will just be a coin flip of who went first, and that is really, really frustrating. I think that applies even more to Palkia then it did too archaeus, in terms of like the coin flippiness of it, and that would dissuade me from playing it. Now. I don't know if people I don't actually expect to hit that many mirrors if you play Palkia. I just think the field will be diverse enough that you'll maybe hit one or two and then probably hit a bunch of other archaeas text from there, if I had to guess. But if I thought the meadow was heading into a place where, yeah, just nine out of nine rounds are gonna be Palkia, I would not want to play Palkia myself. Yeah, no matter how no matter how tech my list was. Yeah, Paulky is like awesome into anything that's not Paul Kia and archaeas is we found slightly favorable, we would say, from our testing. Slightly favorable, but very even so. It'd be tough to have the face polky and archaeas for nine rounds just because it feels like you maybe don't have a ton of agency, because when we were playing it's really just whoever gets that first attack. So whoever goes first it's gonna have been a really good spot, I think,... our parks archias testing, at least the ones that we did last week. I don't know about the texting you yesterday, but the the Games that we played last week it was every game the person who went who attacked first, necessarily one first, but who attacked first, except for one. I think that person won right, which is that's a lot. You know, that's crazy. Yeah, Um. So I think those would be the two reasons I wouldn't play Pakia is if there were those kind of counters stalled decks or if there was an overwhelming amount of other PALKIA players. Are there any texts in Polkia that you really like? Here's something that I've been playing, rare candy, stormy. I think echoing horn at this point has been a non negotiable in my list. Pal Pad I've cut actually, so I'm curious. You know, that's something that you think goes or stays. Um, I'm sure there's others. I'm not you know, you could play a second shady dealings in Italian. I've seen that kind of floating around as well. Are there any text that you're like very convicted of in your Palky deck that you know you're gonna be playing? And is the only one I feel really strongly about, Um, and even then, like, if someone gave me a convincing enough argument, like I could probably be persuaded against it. The others don't feel too too crazy about. I haven't tried a lot of the rare candy. I'm not a huge fan of it, honestly. Um, it opens up some cool plays, but I don't know if I care enough, um at least, to replace another card for it. I actually do still like the pal pad, mostly for opportunities like Double Roxanne, for example, over the course of the game, or having an extra boss's orders can sometimes be super valuable. Um. So No, I think one of the benefits from Palkia is that you do have a couple of slots to work with and this those. What those slots go to will largely depend on what you think the metal will look like. So if I thought it was a lot of Palkia mirrors, for example, that slot might become a lion and a quick shooting, you know, because if you put those together you can do some really cool stuff in the mirror. If I thought the meadow was heading and maybe a different direction, maybe I'd include a one one ice rider line just to try and, you know, knockout archais a little bit easier or something like that. So I think it's just kind of dependent on where you think the Meta is. I don't think I could say at this stage in the game. Yeah, this is the two or this is the three cards that I think are must have. Absolutely. It's honestly even feel that way about the echoing horror. Like if the meat is heading in a certain direction, do you need thatching hard or something else better? Only time will tell. Only time and testing will tell. Would you consider playing a one, one ice rider in the list like we tried at Nat's? I think I'd prefer like a too too if I was playing ice rider. But it, I mean, I didn't hate. I didn't hate our NASS list. I probably would change it to be more arita engine focused, but the concept of it I didn't hate. No, so I would consider, I guess. To answer your question, yeah, I think we need to put some more time into that. I mean there's just so much, so much we need to put time into and so so little time, actual time. Many sleepless nights ahead, I hope. Sow. To round it out, what is the TAG team spice for Palkio? What is what is something that you think would be a special inclusion we would recommend in your Palky deck? Is that rare candy? Is it the quick shootings? I like more intelliance Um like so potentially even playing three intellian. Having that second shady dealings in Italian has felt really good. Yeah, yeah, it's felt really, really good, so that might I don't know that that's necessarily that I see, but even an Arcius list like having that second Italian has been I've been able to pull off cooler plays in the late game then I thought I might be able to. So that would be my suggestion. Play around with that. Um That's kind of where I'm at. It's like, can I afford to include three in Italian? And Right now I'm trying it. So the answer is yes, but that may change, but that's that's what I'm on right now. Awesome, you heard it here first play three in Italian. Well, everybody. I think that's a great round out to this episode. gave a lot of thoughts about some awesome new decks, UH and some deep dive into Pauchia. So the question now is where can you find us if you're looking for updates about the merch or want to check us out in social media more generally? And the answer is the best place to find us is on twitter and all of J W, my Elf and the podcast have twitters. You...

...can find myself as smiles with rouse GW at Real John Walter and the podcast at tag team pokemon and if you're looking for the merch updates, it will definitely be posted onto the podcast twitter itself. Yeah, absolutely. You can find us over on twitch. We stream every single Wednesday at pm over at twitch dot TV slash Monnor so. If you want to be part of the conversation joining the chat, head on over there, twitch dot TV slash monitor. I also run my own twitch stream, twitch dot TV slash flex daddy righteous. We appreciate all of your listeners at so much. If you enjoyed it or you didn't, be sure to leave a rate and review so we know what to do well, or what we're doing well and what we need to improve on in the future. And with that we will catch you all next time. Bass see you.

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