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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 1 · 1 year ago

3-1. ADPee

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are here for Season 3 and are ready to lay down the law on Arceus Dialga and Palkia. Should they be banned, or are they just another powerful card?

What's up, everybody welcome back totag team, the POKOMON trading card games, fromerpos casting duo now inseason three, the world from ere you're, here, you're, seeing it or hearing itfor the first time and we're so excited to bring it to you so t w. How does it feel? How are youdoing I'm doing grey Riley? We h we justpremiered our newest logo, update which I'm superstoked about. If you guyshaven't seen that I mean you probably would have ifyou're watching it later, if you're watching it live, you may not have seenit even go over to the witter. We've updated it there, but if you'rewatching it later, I mean You'e, probably seen it when you touched onthe logo to download the potcast, but thatfiels really cool got another fewthings in the mixt. Yeare were doing the full grab online series, officiallystarting in two weeks from yesterday, which I'm stoked about and yeah we'restarting a new season of Tang team, which, just all these things are reallyh. big things for celebration, yeah for sure anti clarifyed two weeks fromyesterday, would be the fifteenth that's correct. ISeptember Fifth Selt Yep and that's by weekly on Tuesdays. For now we are limiting it to buyweekly. We want to M, you know, first of all, just just kind of take it slowto start just to make sure, because you know Andrew Values Andrew and I andalso Natali, I mean just for the whole, like Fulgbrand, making sure thateverything is like perfect for the players. You know that there's no stoneleft unturne that it runs smoothly that it's just this great experience forplayers, because that's that's what it's all about it's about! You guysit's about who plays in these tournaments and that they get themaximum experience and so just making sure that we can. You know, don'tpromise too much too soon, because I think there'll be a pretty high demandfor something like this, because they know the quality that you know thatAndrew in I Adalan fullgroup in general, just produces so um taking is low,could increase at some point depending on Um. You know a few different factors,but yeah that'll be by weekly awesome. Well, if you're excited about that theprospect of playing in a fullgrp weekly event, I mean I'm sure a lot of peopleare already excited about the idea who maybe wants play in real life, but it'sjust you know too far away or whatever here's the perfect time to bridge thatgap right a yeahwell. I think one thing that sets this online series, apartfrom other online series I's just that you know we will be doing a cash byinand I think a lot of people like to play for those higher stakesand they like to play for those higher stakes on a regular basis, and you knowfive bucks. You know for a lot of people isn't like a a huge thing. Youknow it's not like going to be cut throat by any means, but you know ifyou have sixty four people, Thage put in five bucks and the winter gets. Youknow a hundred bucks or a couple hundred bucks whatever it is. That'sthat's a great tournament. Yeah, that's a really exciting tournament! So Um youow B it'll be something that I think a lot of players will gravitate towardsjust because they could walk out of the event with a booster boxer, a booterbox and a half and really feel like they. They got their money's worth yeahI mean who doesn't love? WHO DOESN'T LAVE MONEY? I sure do yes, Hav you antenis lover ofmoney. I I have been known to enjoy money. Speaking of money, I have beenaveraging. I've been doing my senseof walks. I so going door to door. I'vebeen averaging over a penny per shift. Incredible. I don't know what it I've been reallycurious as to why that is like. Is it because IAM walking in certain you knoweconomic areas or is it because the houses are just more closely you knowconnected, or is it because, like people pay more with cash in this area?I I don't know it's been really interesting. 'cause. I only findpennies. I find like one dime, but I didn't pick it up because it was onsomebody's front porch and then like one quarter, which I did pick upbecause it was on the sidewalk, but other than that I mean it's been likeeleven pennies, that's insane, it is pretty crazy. I itmakes it eleven pennies. It makes me wonder: What's going to happen when youknow the? U S eventually rotates out the penny and makes thenickel the smallest form of currency that we have do you know how thatprocess works, how they ell they've done it in Canada. So basicallywhat happened? I I I turn them in. No, you don't turn 'em in. You stillcan use them, but, like I think, stores can choose whether or not to implementthis system, where you know they round up orround down. So if you're stuckwith something, that's like, let's say it's point, nine three, then you wouldround it up to point nine five...

...and of its point nine two, you roundeddown to point nine interesting and then you give you know kind of that roundedoff change. But how do you like stop the circulation? You know like how doyou prevent them from continuing to move around? That's a good question. I am not sureabout that. I mean I'm sure, there's some type of like government, maybe notbuyback, but like like a voluntary. You know just turn us in your pennies andwe'll give you the exact value back Um but yeah, I'm not sure how they wouldlike phase out a coin. Yes, a an interesting topic, I'm sure there'slike twenty, you two videos on it, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure I could find thisout with like very little effort so for sure not a juge deal, let's jump right into it, then so talkof the town this week has been one card in Particularhas, really drawna lot of people's attention, and that is our good friend one of the mosthated cards on tag team, Arseus, Daaga and Palkiagx yeah. We used to rag onthis card all the time or how crappy it was in the context of the FRE SORDsield format. Itsfunny. It's funny that it's reached the state that it has yeah.I mean it's not like incredibly illogical or anything. You know here we are and so to givecontext for the unaware RC, Stagopak, otherwise known it. ADPhas the gx attack, altered creation, gx and so for the musly cost of a waterand a metal energy. You can perform the Alta creation gx, with the additionaleffect of performing thirty more damage for therest of the game and all of your attacks, not just OURRC Talin paccioallof your tolk about and taking an aditional price guard and H. Takinadditional price card is really the the kicker there. You know thirty damagesNice, but taking up Ferivecard, maybe hat's Brein Saing, so well. Well, it itreally initially wasn't supposed to be so insane. I mean you think about thecontext in which ADP was printed and the contexts where we were able to justrag on the card. For being, you know, average at best, and you look at theattackers that it had water and metal attackers were not particularly strong.I mean the best attacker that eventually made its way into the ADParchitype in you know what three four mats ago wasthe Celdio Gx and that capped out at one hundred and forty damage, I believe,for its attack. There's a lot of ars say what there's US, the Birto, theBirtrio sure but th. The kind of Nice thing about the Birtrio was that,generally speaking, I I remember like the Victini setting up the the ADPsetting up the birds yeah. You know it was taking way more time. So you againlooking back at that context. You didn't really have those same attackers.kind of that Zasian is, which is something thatjust one shots tag teams blows most things out of the water easily tooshotting a lot of the vmaxes, and the other thing that really well. There aretwo other things that I want. A highlight is helping ADP right now interms of the context of the metagane that maybe wasn't the case prerotationor you know multiple formants ago, Hen atpwas first printed was at ourreliance on set up Hokeman, so you literally cannotplay a deck. I think well, you can play decks, but I ninety percentandex rightnow and certainly the Tiar one dek all play the Denay and Crobat. You justcan't really get around that. You need the speed. You need that you knowaggressive play that DDANA CROBAC can give you and the other thing that helps ADP rightnow and wasn't as much of a factor in formants past was you know the lack ofa fery attacker to key bdpn check. We used to have mimic EU with its. Youknow, retaliate style attack that could hit into an Eigd P, and you knowreasonably one shot it right if they had used um if they had used an attackon the on the previous turn, and we just don't have those farry attackersso you're leaving this thing kind of unchecked in this weird sord, an shieldmadow, where it really wasn't as bad before, because the context around thecard was different yeah. I would actually I'd like to digest the arguments alittle further ecause. I think ADP was still a problem at a card from IC isashuranpoint sure it's ally sure. So the the crucks of the arguments boiled down to the fact that APaccelerates the game inherently by taking exxercise hers, the game isfaster and what that'll do is the the main example people arlpoint to?Although this is not the only affected...

...archetype, is the one fries tax Um, theone prize deck will lose in four turns, basically the Aldergration gxtern anthe Naka subsequently, whereas previously they would have. You knowsix to seven turns to win the game and those terms are honestly crucial,'cause, normally one price deck, with the exception of the EFOT, which ispretty much the only one that remains viable o this day they have to trade, moly, yellowattacks and that's the idea is like you're you're swinging multiple timesyou know. Maybe you got one big knock out in the middle F there, but you'retrading favorably, because the prize exchange is in your favor 'cause you're,using these weaker one prize attackers and t the trade off for that is youknow you have weaker attackers. Inherently you have less consistency.B'cause, you don't play as many like Dropokem on T. your attacks are usuallyike more complicated to use, so you trade off that inconsistency forfavorable priv exchange and that that element is just completely removed withADP. For the most part, I mean, there's not like a realistic way thatmost one prize to Xcan trate into it. That's that's one fault of the card.Another one is like what you pointed out where there's a lot of support.Brokemon Thare are two prizes that nowl lose half the game by themselves, andso, if you playe two of those pokaon down et p attacks twice to win yeah,which I mean that sucks and and part of the e sock is because Av has a plutr ofnon three prize attackers. So, even if you knock out Um, you knock out the ADP, and this e is mycounterargument to your fairy weakness thing sure. Even if you knock out theeighty people instantly as soon as altered creations, they still have twoattackers that you have to go through because they they won't put anotherthree prizes around the board. So the prize math is just very good for ADPand they have a lot of ways to to manipulate the Gamsta in their favor Um, and I would say, the cars like Nimikwouldn't be that big of a deal now, because you know it's it's a responsivecard like you have to show the n Yeah N, like of course, but I think the for me.It's like you're, never really, maybe atternitis. If you have everything, goright like there's, really never a chance for you to gust up in ADP likebef. Even you know, taking out Mimicuo 'cause, of course that's a reactive car,but even so like if they had some kind of fairy archetype or fairy attacker thatcould reliably like gust up and atr before its gx attack. I mean that thatwould give some kind of counter I that would just be in a e Gard right if ecule Suram more eigtyt e to attachments, I mean I alv Playe hukcard anyway sounds pretty good, but you're right, the removal of airies.I obviously removes some weaknesses FOB, but I would also say the addition ofZashian already kind of served, that of fact right where you could not playGardivar anyway, to beat up on eigt ps, because Jachin would tear through themfor Foor prive of each e its like there's, no there's no gods illegal, tht you can play it if you really ought to really the fairy weakness argumentties in for me more to just support the argument that ADP was never ment forthis format. Raegatan, he wasn't eightype wasn't supposed to be here.You know it was the kid that it was the cool kid that got invited tothe NERD party. You know like I really wasn't a card that was designed forSord and shield. On I I mean I kind of agree, but I mean you Mak. You can makethe same arguments for every time we have like a setblock right like this xy cards, weren't meant to be played with the Orgil or h SMO cards and bywhite cards, but you have I mean, but but think about it. Specifically,though, with this right, you have, you have ADP, which does you know water andmetal like that. Those are the two archetypes that it can reasonably gointo. I mean we talked about bird trio and that's you know, kind of a wholedifferent thing, but like most most efficiently, water or metal types arewere this card kind of goes into, and then you release the new game sort andshield, and it's based around metal types and like they're kind of pigeonhold 'cause what they can't make. You know Zashan Inzamazenta, you know anyother typing like they have to be metal types. They get a sor En Alpsychictipes, I I guess but like and then you know you have to make thempretty strong right because they're the freaking faces of the new games, sothey are kind of like they pigeonhold themselves again. Leading me to sayjust that these you could make this argument for a lot of other cards, butparticularly for ADP. These ware, not meant this card was not meant for thisformat. Yeah I mean I would say that I would just say like if we're actuallydigesting what's wrong with ad P. Specifically, you can't look at anargument that also applies to all sorts of other gards. It's like a pacet of it,but it's not like chuts wrong wit, sure, no, no, no, no O, no for sure- andthat's not I'm trying to give like as...

...wholelistic reverview as I possibly cansure, and so, but I guess the kind of argutment I wasmaking was worse, like the very weakness was already removed likeregardless of they're, printing farry types or not, because Sachin is just soeffective against any fairy type attacker Bush ore all weak to metale.By the way you could have a Bahema, a five hundred HP vary Fokavon. That doestwo hundred damage for two energy or something, and it would one shot that eigt pimmediately after alter cration every game and then Zashi would come up anddo five hundred and twenty damage to it and it would't tie so well. I would need some help to do five,twenty, but an altercration than it wouldoh yeah. Of course, yeah H, noyou'rerightyou're does get ome help. Actually, so I don't know it's it's onlucky forvary times. I Guess Don Know House to describe it yeah forsure, but I think I what I'm trying to digest is, I think at P was problematicanyway, free Um, three format shift and it was doing pretty consistently wellin lots of events. It wasn't winning a ton of them, but it was choking outlike pretty large portions of the medagame. Already befores Lordshiel wasever printed and I think that's actually true, likeyeah the attackers one weaker but sower the POK of mine. It was generallyfighting against Um sure, and so I don't know I I I think the card itselfpresents it's it's impossible to make a card like that. Like consistentlybalanced Um, I mean we think of extra prize taking mechanics they're, usuallyon one po Amon and serve themselves. You know you have what is it d, dioxisand Riques Tha Legend? You know that was an awesome like powerful cardin the context that like decks, that could play it but like it could onlyknock out like it could only knock out and take extarcises for itself. Youhave like the Lugia, which you know as an okay card, and it could only takeprizes by itself. You have like the I don now like the Umbryon that tookextraprize n Agup Okaan only took Ark surprises. If you used it sure solike, it's impossible to likeeffectively balance ADB, because there's always going to be other carsthat are around it. Um and just like tacting themselves arealready kind of like ridiculous. So you know where's where's the line, Iguess. Ah Sure. So you know you have all these passes. ADP is just anincredibly powerful card. Should ADPV band it becomes the nextpart of that discussion. Um I'll, give my opinion of what shouldhappen, but I also propise that th, realistically, I don't think Vokmad isgoing to Ba n ADP. I I was actually completely flored whenthey banned Beleva and Riceaman and standard. I was prettylike Gangho thatPokmad doesn't bnd cars and standard, I'm pretty much still of that belief.So I don't know what really inspired the belelva thing. Maybe they justwanted to turn o this to have no, no cowner, no, like quick counter thatyou could throw into a deck 'cause. That was just t that just seems sorandom. To me, I don't Knowyeahbi. I don't see ty P, feeling the same nichethat they would bean instanter. That BELELVA does Um. I think you know they seem to be fine with it. You knowit's and it's tough, because people make these arguments that ADT isn'twinning events, which I think is the wrong take sure, because it doesn'tmatter if hi's winning if it chokes out like forty other dakrom existing yeahyeah, I mean, I think another question that kind of stims off like should ad pband. It's like, should how big should the metagane be like how many decksshould there be in any one medagame and I've had in the past, I've had verysuccessful times where the medigame was very small. You know where you havethree decks: that really just beat everything else, and you know you goback even farther to like when I was first getting into the game where I wasjust like. SP stuff was y. You almost couldn't play anything else, but Sp. Ifyou wanted to try to win that tournament, and so that's a questionthat I ask you is how big should a metagane me? Is it good to ban ADP,because that makes you know twenty more decks? vible like? Is that somethingthat a game designer wants ther game yeah, and I actually, I am definitelynot of the belief that a large medigame is a healthy Meta game Um. That beingsaid- and I there's plenty of reasons why othe case Ilalso just e'll arate- that further as well, that Beso alargrmedigane actually can make it much harder to balance inherently ecausethere's so many extra factors and interactions that you have to accountfor at doesn't mean a large medigame isunhealthy either and large mediganes can be pretty awesome and pretty fin,but it's that's not inherinte to like...

Gaye Balance Ri. That being said, um it's, I don't think it's so much thefact that ADP is like. I don't know how to like phrase this. Idon't know if it's like the reduction of quantity, that like makes adb bad for Medagane, but I think it's morelike the Aff, the net effect, where you know it chokes out an entire facet ofgame play where you cannot play entire swaths of Pokamon at all, basicallybecause eighty people just run them over t and it's not in the it's not in likethe typical way where, like the deck, is just stronger, Um and like you have like an you know, aforty sixty or whatever, but it's like eighty pee really like puts the beatingon these poor decks. You know especially thes one prize and even twoprize Dacx m that just can't keep up with the damage, output or the pricerating. So I would say the the counterpoint ofthat is a small medigaine can be very good and like a mirror, heavy medigamecan be very good, but I don't think any d mirrors are fun or good. I thinkthey're actually yea. So you know that's a point awayfrom AP sure, whereas you compare it to like a mirror like like a luck. ShotMirror is actually very interesting Y. U Yeah! It was like a wholly dominatedMeta, game, Shm, sure, yeah, there's there's not much interplay. I mean y're you're right with like an et p Mer. It's like okay! Well, did you playDedene and did you you know, or did you play Chrobet like okay, you lose orwhat you know. Really it's trying to keep th things off the board andsometimes again like I were saynging way earlier in the cast. It's like it'salmost impossible to not play down the DEA and Crowbat just because they areso good yeah and I kindof Wat my train of thought, but Ias so the other piece of that is eighty P's, also just ridiculouslystraightforward. So I think if you're going to have like a very centeredmedigame, the deck should be thoughtful and like interesting. You know, like Imet Againe, that sendered around Zac is more interesting than a medigainecenter ond ADP, because there's more happening and inherently to any cardgame, the more torrs it takes to win the more opportunities there are forstrategic decisions that be made es trying to shorten the game to us. U,literally, as few turns as possible to the point where it woods gamesfaster than any of the passibliterally, possibly coold so yeah. I I wondered too. I've beenthinking about this. A lot is what is well. Okay. Obviously, I knowthe significance of like six prizes being your kind of six Pokman that youwould take into battle like that is the canonical equivalent in the VGC ofhaving six Pokeman as having six prizes, but ther really is kind of a th. There doesn't seem to be a realnecessary point like to having six prizes like six is kind of an arbitrarynumber, because when you look at competitive dg C, they don'tnecessarily play with six POKMAN. You know the'llthey'll do kind of adrafting type system where they they'll only bring a certain number at any onetime. But six prizes to me doesn't seem you know important. Itdoesn't seem like a valid number like they could go up to seven. They couldgo down onto five, it's just an arbitrary number, and so you look atfrom a game design perspective. Maybe they are, I mean well, obviously theyare like trying to shorten the Games. You know you look at adps attack. Youlook at tag teams. You look at the VMAXES, giving up three prizes ending,like you said, half the game by knocking one of them out and from adesigned perspective int. I think they are really hitting their mark. If that is whatthey're trying to do just shortening these games down, while io they auhtbeen successful, I ap doesn't achieve that in a healthy way. whereare Y, like you, know, t the thing about multiprice poke Mont.As you have the choice, you have the choice to play them down. You have thechoice to play them over a different kind of dack that offers less rizes andthat's that's been something inherent to any time we had multiprizosfolkboni.You have like the winker Pokamon that can trade favorably into larger prizeopponents, and it's a you, don't have that trade withADP in the in the foremat and if, if their net effect is to makeit the only play Acess an at P, then I guess then like they got their roe likethat's what the Neta is: it's Bein axes and ETP yeah. I I don't know if that'slike actually thei goal, though, or if that was their intent with Prentin APUm. So let's, let's actually get to the Crock of this then JW. What do youthink should happen o ATP? Do you think it has a place in the format? Do youthink it should be banned? Do you think it's a bad card but should stay anyway?I think yeah yeah, I think. Ultimately...

...it should be banned. I mean I will takethat stance like I think it should be banned. I think that if you look at thepast bands, particularly the the first bands that Pokman did things likearchiops things like Waley andforced giant plants, those are kind of thethree that I look to in being similar to ADTP, in the sense that they arereally stifle certain archetypes to the point and really all architypes to thepoint that they have to be like constructed in certain way. Um Ad pcecertainly fits that mould. In the same excuse me on the other side of the coin, I am happy to play in I'm happy to playthis game with ADP still in the format. I don't think it. You K, ow th e. There is about fivedecks that we'll get two in a second that I think, all kind of come to like a tier one standing or canall compete with ADP reasonably fine, and I don't necessarily enjoy aMetagane, that's so wide open. I really do like to focus on you know a handfulof dacks and really perfect those lists so m. Yes, I do think a D P should go.However, if they don't choose to ban it. I'll be perfectly contents, 'm sure,and I would largely agree with you there. I think I think the most aftcomparison- and we talked about this actually this morning in our group chat.I think the most apt comparison is arteops. I think forest and WaleyLittleo, it's more like item lock, Chirpsize SM, but definitelyarchieopposite is a very similar Ich to ADP. Where completely makes certaintypes of decks, onviable and like yeah, you can play around it in certain ways.Like you know, versa, GP, you could promote WAV, but, like N, you know, that's not like a real argument andit's it's the same way like yeah, like occasionally likeepron will beat andEghtive Etack, but I dusn' MEA that, like one prize ex aren't completelychoked out of the game, you kN W sure I think arcas is very apt. Comparisonand archafs got band in the end. Yes, it wasn't expanded, but I think the NEeffect is pretty similar Um. I think that's a pretty good peparson AC.Actually that wasn't one I really thought of until you'd brought it up.So do I think Pokomo Bana I'll reimphasize.I think the answer to that question is still no Um and maybe maybe enough people causeenough of the stink t at that they do, but I think their inclination is not toUm. I think they generally want to avoid banning cards and standard and even in expanded they are kind ofnot apt to really ban cards if they don't really have to so I I guess I etyP is here to stay. Do I think it's a Bena card absolutely, and if youcouldn't tell that from e arguments in the town ever the last thirty minutes,then I apologize they sethat dance. I'm kidding I'm kidding, of course, butI I think it is. You know I think the arguments are all there and I thinkthey reaound for Y AP is unhealthy in the Madagame sure sure so so it is so it is so it is, and withthat concluding there, we have our first segments that we've ever done. This is going tobe a recurring thing here on the tag team Po cast where we take just alittle moment of levity and introduce something to to our listenersthat maybe they'd never heard about R or a card that they've never heardbefore. This is the cart of the week here and H. Raley's got it this week,yeah I was actually. I was vouncing between two cards to present this week,Um and so I'm going to go with the morefun one of the two, but I'll jut save the other one for next time. So the carI want to talk about is an expanded card, and it's something that's verynear and dear to me, and if you pay attention to past episodes in thepokest, you might be able to infer what it is Um sugall kind of describe it foryou and you I'll. Let you see if you can come up with it. So 'cause card isa psychic type POKOMON. It has an ability that applies the statuscondition to your opponent. I it was a key component to one of my earliestdacks in my career, oh Hypno, yeah. I have no from Bra y VOFOR beakpoint. Ilove that card man that I still keep my my reverse holifoil ones, my finder allthe time there'r Ta rate man so for the unaware it diver breakpoint was really the corner stone of the dark eyehypnodec, which was perceived to be the best way to play, dark right, e x priorto his race in America. Wish looking Bak is so ridiculous. Thenwe anyone ever thought that so conteptualizing the whole story here,darkgreve from Brakepoinhad, an attack...

...for one darkness and a Doublecoliswhich existed at the time. whow thought M that it's called dark head. I thinkand Yeah Ahty damage and if they poke hem on the OPPOESS PA problem wasasleep at did eighty more damage. So you know one sixty one. Seventy to wasfighting threee bolt one. Eighty was muscle band which pretty much was themath at the time, um believe it or not. One. Eighty used to be a good amount ofdamage to hit so IV. No was the key to that, though,so hipno had an ability on it called good night babies which, to this day Ithink, is probably the vestibility name in Pok Omin and it put both active oin to sleep,which seems really really bad. But then you play the stadium all night party,which is probably the best stadium name in Pokamahistory, and it wakes up youractive Holk, Aon and hels thirty damage from it. So the STEC was justcompletely ridiculous. It was, but it was so much fun and Ypno had this crazyart. It was like almost like draning Frand, a yeah yeah,but I can like Ta right now. That was so awesome and it was drawn in thiswacky style. It was so crazy. Look at there's a bunch of other cars aroundthis time that were drawn in a similar style and they all kind of likeconnected to each other Um. I just love that card man, and it'slike that's just the fondest memories I have of pokomine is just sitting in my dorm room, sofphwoarEr of college, getting my first Batchopovo my cars in the mail andplaying dark eye hip. Now on the floor of my dor, with my roommates hitagainst his like Megagarido Stacg, like endlessly yeah, and that was just somuch fun and I remember I'd be sitting in the room and just plugging away andI'd get like a knock on my door, and it was just like a pretty girl coming toask going if we want to hang out or something or like do homework together.E like od, no like we're we're playing a dark, ran, show over here, actually so bust, such fond memories. Man Like I,I I really love when Potmon put that creative names and things and liteallyevery cardhad to just have like a Hilariousnaattachedyes. This is yournggood night babies. So you could use your all night party stadium anddarkhead your oponent itss ridiculous, unbelievable yeah, a no it! It's crazyto think that that card yeah, like you, said 'cause. I remember that too. Youknow I've been playing for a while at that point, and just like I remember,being skeptical of it, but having friends that were extremely excited aabout probably Yeh, it was Wamble, absolutely so O. I know that. How doyou know that? Because I've got I took the list from as cars our loundery? I changed it a little! Oh, my God. Thatwas the first list I like ever like took any from anywhere itwas. Oh mygosh. I wonder if we could find that I got and alright yeah. I I'll look thatup. I think you might arge all night part Echars, Lo you'll find it but just a hiraculous time. So I think,if I had to distill this cart of the week into into like a phrase or some resentence,I would say, play Boka because you love it and youhave one doing it find the final elments of the game that to you, keepit fun and interesting and make it fun and like no matter whatsituation you're in and for me at the time that was good night badies hat nowith all night party and dark rive, that's amazing! I love it Um. Solooking ahead here into just the general medagame ow do want to give ourlisteners kind of a brief breakdown of what we've been seeing in the format asas it stands right now, rily. What are some of the highlightsof this format in terms of the archetypes of decks that you've beenseeing performing well in the various amount of online tournaments sure so Imean ADP consistently does well alh. It hasn't really consistently on. But youknow it's probably the most represented tack in every event, so you can'treally write it out. Um One DAC that I've see consistently dovery very well. It's actually kind of surprised me, but not so much like themore I think about it, but at the time it definitely did was the UtooWalterdac yeah that has been a huge comeup ste had his sub tournament thatit was like four of the top eight or something absurd like that, really just making itself known Um and as a fan of Mutu myself. That makesme happy I'. I'm excited to take that for aswing Um, some other dacks that have consistentlydone well, I think the Lecario Mel Metalsautian is a pretty viablearchetype. It really thrives in a known metagame, where you can. You know,build your deck around it. So in the...

Players Cup a good example of that youhad a very small player base, and you say you could much easier predict thekinds of decks and bills you would see and they took full anch H. Thi gotfirst and second wit, a car in the MEDL, Um and, of course, yeah mainstays likeatternative. That consistently do a lot of damage stay at the top. I you cannever write off a deck that does to understand any damage onturn to noabsolutely not yeah. That's that's a good overview. We'retalk, talk about me too welder a little bit being kind of that surprised t for mewhere I just died for a format right when we had m a Dragopal B, you knowamong the best tecks Yeah Ael, I told you, two fans literally took me to outof the e equation, not so much for I mean the weakness obviously was veryyou know hard to play around for the music clayer, but particularly when theMimicue was kind of shifting in and out between those lists. It made it reallyreally difficult, because you know they could put the damage. COUNTE Ond yourDurachi. If you happened to play it and then all of a sudden, you were justgetting one shot over and over again, and so that made it really really hard the the welder mutes to becoming more of aviable deck. I think really also stems from a lack of ADPZ counter to that. Sowhen Adpz first was an architype, you had these things to counter theTagipocamon like vitality, band and like trying to punishment, and so thosedid the extra damage counter that you needed that austion couldn't quite getto. You know maxing out at two sixty with the edpgx tech in play right, youmaxed, outotwo, sixty not quite getting it there against Mizu, so you wouldneed to play. You know some kind of damage modifier, and now we come into aformat where you know there aren't really two: Seventy HP, pokemon and allof a sudden Muss wo can thrive. Now, because you know one matchup that ithas edypesation can't hit the numbers and if ADP is the most played deck andyou have a deck that you know, G Canwithstand, a couple of hids, thenyou're in a good position. So I think that's also part of the reason thatMusu has done so well is just that the adpz players really haven't respectedit yeah. I mean, I think, that's a huge part Um, you know calling even part ofthe reason almost seems to not do justice. I think UTOs match up againstATPDEX, as they're built right now has served it incredibly well being able too have three hundred damage on turn, two, the UTO special and Yeah Y. U EhtyP doesn't have a response really as long as you can avoid getting animmediate response, knock out on like a tebrize around your bench, then you'repretty much good Um. So I I think that is the main reason. You do, of course,consistently being Adeckas the most tools available to it. The mostattacking options so obviously tends to do well in a wide open medagame,especially in these like early developing Medaganes, where it can playa lot of attacks and kind of fenagle its way through a lot of differentmatch. UPS, I won't be surprised- and I mean if I was Lin apiwould- do this aswell to especially in the current Medigane,where Cavacis hactal move the stuff like scoop up, nets and switch, I thinkjust including, like is gon or a vitality band, or something like that.I mean sure you know Mutos can play a big charm. I mean you can play. I meanyou can go down the rabbit whole forever, like mewtes are going to playbig charms, then you're going to play like toolscappers or youre going toplay Nimicu or whatever else like it's go, there's going to be some backand forth elements to it, but I think eighty people will have tothink about more actively what it can do against Meu do if it wants to beable to stand a chance, an that matchup consistently sure absolutely absolutely any otherdeck that you lookd too ryly as being near the top of the Mata game, or atleast contenders amongst the the foredecks Ho talked about being weldermee, two, a DP, Z, atternatives and Lukemetal. I think one that's Kindoflike on the fringe is another Walterdack in Santascorce. I don'tthink it's as good as me too, but I think it has some really interestingoptions. The vulcanians really saw one fries attacker Um, especially againstthose like wacky kind of countery decks like Valcanian Rontrain on Deciguyx,for example, sure and I think Sanascorch I've I've talked about. Ithink Saas port is actually better than it was preitation Um. You know I I kind of ragged onsenscoach a little bit peritation, not as much as you, but still a little MITum. I I think it is a little bit better now m if it gets like the hird one balkgoing, ackand, that's really good Um and if it can take a hit, then it'llusually snowball the game pretty hard. So you really have to find quick answers to sentisworch to beable to consistently stay, have a chance in the match up as long asthey're, not whipping true. So I mean I,...

I don't think it's like the the bestdeck in the format. I don't know if it really stands up with the rest of thoseDaks, but I think it's pretty good. You know I wouldn't hate on it. Okay, I am of an opposite opinion. Ijust think cent scorch is pretty stinky yeah I mean if I was going to playWalterdeck that wasn't too. I would rather play Babi Aflon Surem, whichalso lost a very important tool and fiery flint, but I mean it's not likeit doesn't completely wipe it out of the game. The hardest part with Basafonright now is getting those initial attacks off, and so what I've seen mostlist do is sort of air towards like leading with the heat, ran and Victini,and things like that to get energy on the board and the discard pile andstill do damage 'cause, I feel like now. It's actually way easier to get entergyout of the this car than the deck th Wi h, fire, flint, gode yeah, absolutelywell. You still have fire crystal and you still have retrieval so really yeahyou're right, it's all about just digging it out and uh, getting it to the Discard Piel to beable to use it. So it's kind of a shift there with babble. Sufon. Like youalways in the past, you did want it in the discard, Pilas! Well, ecause, firecrystal was just so strong, but you, like you, said you had that firy flant.You could draw it out of the deck that was more of a you could be moreaggressive. Now you kind of have to take a more calculated approach. Yeahand I've been a big Bavi Sefflon fan for the past a little while Um ive flowplaying the deck, it's very fun. It's KINDOF relaxing. You know rjust like tosses Ol, his Ar Bile and IGuess You'r Dad or whatever yeah. If I'm just loging, O se Yo. Ijust want to play a couple of games and I think about it. Thyard I always sayther s up one yea Y, it's Jus it's one of the most satisfying ones. You know'cause, you get in those situations where you're like you're in the game.You got. You know nine energy ind, the DISCARPI got three fiery flints and youyou know, got one prize left to take and you just go yeah you got crystals.You Got Three Crystals! You like Crystal Crystal Crystal. You know, getthose nine energy you just blow 'em up, that's just it's so fun, O Yo! I extraanergy Eeou of the game, especially on like a little Pon pokmon.You know you got like a little scrulp or you know Olisapot or something Idon't know where Hecabalp came to ya illegal. Well, that's just my favorite!That's my favorite Pokaman name: SCROLP is a good name, her comedy yeah, afriend Y. I think you' probably planted this in my mind, but a friend of mine was asking what theyshould name like a kitten they're going to get and what came I foeand stile wasscrulp. I think scral ould actually be a like acool name for a little Kitten, scraup Huh interestingwell I online for my next,my next cat yeah, a EXCAS. That's definitely becoming a SCRILP, oh forsure or like that'll, be like it's official name and then, like Ann Wi'll,have to rename it like, give it a nickname or something yeah. So I'llopose that to you, though, what other kind of Nichteck you have your eyeonyeah. I mean I've always loved Italian, and that seems if you have watched anyconset creator over the last week, it's kind of actually turned into a littlebit of a joke where everyone is playing intellian and you know, Tord goes intotop four of the players cop playing intelion. It's justbeen kind of a mean. It's been kind of pokes fun ad, just because it seemslike everyone is. Oh, my gosh now with rotation, you know an Tellian can beplayed, but you know I was. I was always tha proponant of metalite, thereal ones out. There know that ihave always loved Italion and now that wedon't have bigrum now that we don't really have a viable lightning attack,or that was what I consider to be the biggest thing holding it back. You knowY U're you're, definitely going to struggle with a few of the decks outthere. Um aternatives comes to mind as being just a very difficult match ofthem. Being able towpay Soo in terms of damage. For you know, a relativelycheap cost, an then being able to accelerate to themselves is reallytough. So, but aside from that, I mean you havedecent mattips Um. You know you can beat ad P. I think that's one of thebetter match. UPS for the deck, so you know you look into an ADP heavymetagame and certainly a dek like in tellion canthrive beautiful I mean who doesn't want tothrort out Intella N. I know I do that's what I'm saying: Bro Does n yougot all this fire stuff like people are clinging to their Cento scorches likepraying that they wake up and one day sent the scorches a good deck and h.You jusy eat those people insane. You eat those people any otherdecks on the on the fringe that are coming out to Um. I just I don't know I've beenhaving a lot of fun doing. Thi speedrun challenge, gus haven't seen it on myutube. I've been uploading the vads of some of the most hilarious parts atthem, but I really actually enjoyed...

...playing butterfree Itwa. That was that was a fun one for some reason,like the Um, the status conditions really trick me.They really trick me. I always try to make you know, confusion, work or, likepoisons the WOR, try to make that work and it usually doesn't 'cause. Youthink about the Yo. You think about confusion like I think in my mind, whenI confuse the opponent, I'm like Oh yeah, they definitely cannot attacknext tern, but in reality it's like they have a fifty fifty shot of youknow being able to attack or they could find a switch or they could have birdkeeper or ou. No one of them you to fifty. What's that that's more thanyeah yeah, so well, yeah more than fifty fifty for them to actually get anattack off. But in my brain it's like ive got em now, gothey're done that's so funny yeah Ican. I can relate to that, though o like they would. They would neverattack to this confusion here, yeah and then they do and they knock you O andyou're like well. Well, Dang, they were just stupid. You know t wasn't that myDEC ASS Maer. It was like ainly at least of optable, for them Tothi can't believe they attact te conpusion. Always- and that's that's. When you goto your friends between rons Ar Regil, they always have it many flihets on theCONC and IC hone tailwnwhy. Can't I get warnt tals ta a switch every tireStando, the tody on the Switcho, so butterfree Y. AH I I know that IsraelSosa did perform well in some online tournament. I'm I'm blanking on thename, but h. You know maybe making butter free somewhat viable with hislist, his particular list. So that is a to note that it has performed well onetime ut in reon, ryline Ternar say what buttere's a rising star for sure it isyes, but yes, I am always seduced by the status conditions is batter foryour favorite deck that came out of the the speedrun yeah, I would say so or the Mudek Imean it's always fun when you are one shouting things with Porigon, becausewhen it all works, it's so beautiful. You know when you can get all theenergy on, because then t like your opponent has to make this choice. Wheredo they attack into like a support, POK mind or do they attack into yourattacker? And then you know? Sometimes they maybe make the wrong choice andthen you just body them and you can one shot. That's a lot of fun as well. Ilove the poor, Gon Bays tecks and playing Porgon with mew. Although it isworse than whimsicot. It's still, you know it's still a really fun day. Yeah,I will say um I do like PORIONDEC, but I'm getting a little bit disillusion bythem. Just 'cause. I feel like there's so many variations that I've seen ofPoringon and they all basically are the same, an the laster it lasts like weekand a half two weeks. It's like you know. Maybe this is 'cause. I watchAndrers tream too much play EG Los Forgod, but nothere's the Meractusthere's Lizi, which is now rritateve, thereas, vew, there's Elemanyou, knowyou're S, Lain Port, Gader, recycling, O Shuss, sure tig, a little disillusion, if we're Godo for sure. But I do love. Thepor got tag. COUNTO money says flampel Sabli.He definitely bodied me with his version of that deck, which was very very fin using flample to spreaddamage, counters and sablied to you know, accelerate with turbopatch andjust go in for one shots. That was a very cool deck yeah. It I mean it's. It's been a it'sbeen a fun time exploring and this new format, and I hope that I'll maintainthis kind of joy that that I currently feel playing the game. 'cause I do feellike the game has been fun for me and I don't know. Ithink a lot of people have been really kind of negative towards the forma,particularly in regards to ADP, but I don't quite feel that way. I still feellike there are things that we can explore: r things we can do architipesto create and counters to find so um I do think live. Mormad is more fun thanpreoritation yeah. I I will stand by that M. I I do have one other questionabout the speedrun. Before we completely move away. Do you thinkPedro is going to steal way your world record for darkest O Blae Oroh? I don'tknow man, I don't know if he is. I was watching Toda well, okay, so the thingthe thing that separated me from Pedro was that he started over like two orthree times. You can't remember he's going for it. No, he like he'stryhearding it really like he's tryharting. I G thats respect manrespect, but he did restart a couple of times. That's all I'm saying I meanthat's the arnoted running right, L, Ke! No, I know Y. I guess you can do that.I just I'm just saying I got mine on...

...the first try and UH. I thought it wasa pretty good record. I thought I thought four and a half hours was likepretty good he's, probably going to be to. I think he has me by about tenminutes right now, yeah. Well, I was watching. I was watching one of Yeur Games. II've watched all the AL, the UTU UPLOS so far, Um and some sometimes I think your gameactions themselves were optimized. That's that's the key of e Tedra, Ohyeah, for sure no, no, absolutely ther! Some of the things that I was doingwere like not the best, but at the same time you know it's. It's just got to gofast and sometimes you just don't think about it. Yeah I I just remember. I was watching likender split, just attack Ri. Oh yeah, no for sure, like the bating,how were sinr attack like who cares? Ita, there's. Definitely some drama there, ten. So so that's so P up. I think we,a be've, hid the time so t people watching lie you're free to postquestions. If you got hem well, take three to four questions for wrap uptoday. We really appreciate all your viewership, as we had into the thirdseason of tag team couldn't have made t thi far without all of your support,really can't p exress our appreciation enough. If you're listening on apadcasting platform be sure to leave a review, it makes us easier to discoverbooses up in the hidden ranking systems that they have there. As you interactmore with Har Material, the algorithm the Ouasir were agorithm, that's what we're going to becontrolled by man. People are like. Oh, you know, computers are going tocontrol us well to an extent. I think it's going to be more. The Algorithm isgoing to decide who should be controlled and who should be. Let Freeso just make sure you're in good standing with the Algary than you coulddo that by leaving a review for Y H, yeah make sure that we don't getcontrolled by the computer overloards by leaving a review so yeah, that'sthat's for sure. Exactly owwoly. I had one question that got posed in mydiscord and I'll. Read it here quickly. Sorry I had to. I had anotherscreen open but um talking about just current car dex. Is there anything thatyou haven't tried yet that you want to try that you think maybe could be. Youknow it's your two, or do you have two or three deck or something that youjust think could have some place in the Meta game, but maybe that you haven'ttried yet or that you haven't seen anyone else. Trin Um, there's like two things, I'm thinkingof UH. I want to try every single VMAC because I think they're all similarenough where they have like potential amongst each other yeah. So I kindofwant to mess with all of them and I haven't messed ut very many. Yet I'mreally only played with the main stays, but I want to get down on the weedswith like the stone, journers and elaprises and the and the butter breezeand all those guys yeah the other answered discuestion is Iwant to try some post Rokeegrab man I I know electric power is a shame. ITHOUHT, Aroundis, a shame but Y. maybethere's like some world where eccellering abouch of energy and likewrapping up with a bolt on is like a viable strategy. I don't know what doyou think makes it? What do you think makes it good like? Ijust worry that it struggles to get you know I might V J Naos Iones says: Mahone was playingpostertation Pekram today kind of Ba I'm just picturing like you acceleratewith the full blitz and then Yo yeah. Then you attack like two bowl tuns orsomething okay yeah. So then the prize trades are are oay aaps for ysh yeah I mean, I think, just not beingable to reach up to those high numbers is just gonna. EA IIT's, probably notgreat, but iyou asked what I wanted to try. That's something. I want sor fairenough pair enough mass Dave says I feel, like one vinagsbeing slept on now. That could be that we have a slight more h accelerationoptions, for it could be Va. Malmar vmax haven't seen a single person. Tryit just don't worry when I, when I eventually test VR v Max to hisouthomal potential Malmar will no doubt be a part of that list. I think te axesare kind of cool in the sense that they are. I mean we're at the earliest blockof them. So like they're a little bit more vanilla- and I think you know themore that we see- I think th- you know they're, obviously just getting moretext to added to them. You know the farther in that we go and so yeah itkindof feels cool to play vnaxes in the...

...sense that you could almost choose anyvmax and just kind of like make a deck around it and they all kind of look similar. You know what I mean like it'slike. We were talking about this earlier in our chat wor. It's like doyou want Red Vmax, or do you want L EA? I I will go on record and saying that Ithink all the B baxes are basically the same Pok Amon Gard, but Ers, and I think the vemaxes themselves arelike o occupy similar ISS levels of power. But it's it's the support aroundUm like yeah. That makes them good yeah I'll stay by that. I, I think, that'strue, fair as a antidmax kind of guy, but who still wants to try them allcauseyou want to try them all, but you hate them. Yeah do not like there loveha relation. I don't like tig axes is like car dezign and cards in general,but I mean I wah every every single color sresure. You know H, Leonn, ask when o you think liveevents are going to start p again pine off for another year, man. I knowthe're tr. I know they're trying it in other card games. If I, if I rememberright like magic, is I don't want to Mispeak, but I thought I heardsomewhere that magic is starting an online or in person type events yeah. Ijust don't see anything like sustainably happening until there's avaccine which I don't see at happening until least late, twenty twenty one yepo Yep. So I mean I think there are some local card stores, but I think eventhose won't probably be the norm at least until certainly until next yearand probably not even til like Midwaithrough next year. I would alsojust advise against it like een you're, taking the best precautions foryourself, like you can't guarantee that from every single person, that's goingthose kind of things so resure, but at the same time I mean if you're,unconcerned with that and you're in a group of people that is alsounconcerned. I mean therer athings. I would counterpoint that and say like itdoesn't Taty batter if you're concerned 'cause, like you'R Your Web, extends toother people who might be concern. Yeah Yeah, I mean yes, okay, be responsible,is all we're trying to say, but at the same time I think for mental health forsome people it might be worth the risk. I The mential. How argument to me Ithink th H, I should do, should do it's right for you, but I I would restrictyour gatherings to like very small, like intimate circles yum with peoplewho you know have been similarly responsible to yourself sure th. That's that's probably a goodway to Payo now whe when you're thrusting your card, Gnin Environment,like you, don't actually know like who could be there or you know what theydid an hour before, showing up even sure. So I I would generally adviselike against putting yourselves in those scenarios but Um. You know if youwan, to play with like your very close group of friends who have all beendepossible and social distance and you know, play cards for a couple of hourslike Y. I I can't fault you for that. You know I understand like it's hard,not well and and one of the hardest things to Um just being social. Is thatwhen you get with somebody that you haven't seen in a while or evensomebody that you have seen a while that you just enjoy being around andlike you, you know in your mind that Oh you know I should stay, you know x,number of feet away from them and I should wear my mask and I should do all they take all theseprecautions. Like a lot of times, you just light your guard down around thosetypes of people. You know, and so that's one of the things that Um Thatit's just a in unattendedconsequence, I guess of like getting with other people, is like you're, justgoing to kind of be a little bit more lax around the people that you know som as much as we could say. You know you know that that you could maybe go to anevent or go to a shop if it was socially distanced, andyou know if all these precautions were taken. I think a lot of times and Ifind myself slipping into these- maybe bad habits, but just like when you getwith somebody that you're very comfortable with you can often you knowlet that comfortability, you know open up into into theguidelines that you've set for yourself in terms of anti cobid measures. Yeah I mean I would say, if you're walking away with this fromtoday's episode, an anything I would say you know continue to stay safe andhealthy, and and also express that empathy for for other people Um,because your actions don't just affect yourself in the context of thesituation that we're dealing with Tany last worsw before we take it away. It's been a great week guys thank somuch again for listening to this episode. I've had a lot of fun soappreciate all your guys. Listening Te Ship, O Ay one more time and good night,my babies.

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