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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 1 · 1 year ago

3-1. ADPee

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are here for Season 3 and are ready to lay down the law on Arceus Dialga and Palkia. Should they be banned, or are they just another powerful card?

What's up everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON Trading Card Games from your podcasting duo, now in season three, the world premiere. You're here, you're seeing it or hearing it for the first time and we're so excited to bring it to you. So, JW, how does it feel? How are you doing? I'm doing great, Riley. We we just premiered our newest logo update, which I'm super stoked about it. If you guys haven't seen that, I mean you probably would have if you're watching it later, if you're watching it live, you may not have seen it. You can go over to the twitter we've updated it there, but if you're watching it later, I mean you probably seen it when you touched on the logo to download the podcast. But that feels really cool. Got Another few things in the mix here. We're doing the full grip online series officially starting in two weeks from yesterday, which I'm stoked about. And Yeah, we're starting a new season of tag team, which just all these things are really big things for celebration. Yeah, for sure. And to clarify, two weeks from yesterday would be the fifteen. That's correct. It's remember fifty stuff. Yep, and that's bi weekly on Tuesdays. For now we are limiting it to buy weekly. We want to, you know, first of all, just just kind of take it slow to start, just to make sure, because you know, Andrew Values Andrew and I and also Natalie, I mean just for the whole like full brand, just making sure that everything is like perfect for the players, you know, that there's no stone left unturn, that it runs smoothly, that it's just this great experience for players, because that's that's what it's all about. It's about you guys. It's about who plays in these tournaments and that they get the maximum experience. And so just making sure that we can, you know, don't promise too much too soon, because I think there will be a pretty high demand for something like this because they know the quality that you know that Andrew and and I and Natalie and you full grip in general just produces. So taking it slow. Could increase at some point depending on, you know, a few different factors. But yeah, that'LL BE BI weekly. Awesome. Well, if you're excited about that, the prospect of playing in a full grip weekly event. I mean I'm sure a lot of people are already excited about the idea who maybe wanted to play in real life but it's just, you know, too far away or whatever. Here's the perfect time to bridge that gap, right. Yeah, yeah, well, I think one thing that sets this online series apart from other online series is just that, you know, we will be doing a cash buy it and I think a lot of people like to play for those higher stakes and they like to play for those higher stakes on a regular basis. And you know, five bucks, you know, for a lot of people, isn't like a huge thing. You know, it's not like going to be cutthroat by any means, but you know, if you have sixty four people, they each put in five bucks and the winner gets, you know, a hundred bucks or a couple hundred bucks, whatever it is, that's that's a great tournament. Yeah, that's a really exciting tournament. So, you know, it'll be it'll be something that I think a lot of players will gravitate towards just because they could walk out of the event with a booster box or a booster box and a half and really feel like they they got their money's worth. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love who doesn't love money? Well, I sure do. Yes, as you and this lover of money, I have been known to enjoy money. Speaking of money, I have been averaging. I've been doing my senses walks, all right, so going doortodoor, I've been averaging over a penny per shift. Incredible. I don't know what it is. I've been really curious as to why that is. Like is it because I'm walking in certain, you know, economic areas, or is it because the houses are just more closely, you know, connected, or is it because, like, people pay more with cash in this area? I don't know. It's been really interesting because I only find pennies. I found like one dime, but I didn't pick it up because those on somebody's front porch, and then like one quarter, which I did pick up because it was on the sidewalk. But other than that, I mean it's been like eleven pennies. That's insane. So it is pretty crazy. I'm makes them eleven pennies. It makes me wonder what's going to happen when, you know, the US eventually rotates out the penny and makes the nickel the smallest form of currency that we have. Do you know how that how that process works. How do they? Well, they've got they've done it in Canada. So basically what happens is, like turn them in? No, you don't turn them in. You still can use them. But, like, I think stores can choose whether or not to implement this system where, you know, they round up or round down. So if you're stuck with something that's like, let's say it's point nine three, then you would round it up too, ninety five, and...

...if it's ninety two, you round it down two point nine interesting, and then you give you know, kind of that rounded off change. But how do you like stop the circulation? You know, like how do you prevent them from continuing to move around? That's a good question. I am not sure about that. I mean I'm sure there's some type of like government, maybe not buy back, but like a like a voluntary you know, just turn us in your pennies and we'll give you the exact value back. But yeah, I'm not sure how they would like phase out a coin. Yeah, it's an interesting topic. I'm sure there's like twenty youtube videos on it. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure I could find this out with like very little effort. So for sure not a huge deal. Let's jump right into it then. So talk of the tab this week has been one card in particular is really drawn a lot of people's attention, and that is our good friend, one of the most hated cards on tag team, RCS DALGA and Palkya gx. Yeah, we used to rag on this card all the time for how crappy it was in the context of the Free Sword Shield format. It's funny. It's funny that it's reached the state that it has. Yeah, I mean it's not like incredibly I logical or anything. You know, here we are. And so, to give context for the unaware, RC Staga Pacio, otherwise known as ATP, has the gx attack altered creation gx, and so for the measily cost of a water and a metal energy, you can perform the altar creation gx with the additional effect of performing thirty more damage for the rest of the game at all of your attacks, not just RCRC STAG and Pako, all of your Pokemon, and taking an additional price card. And taking additional price card is really the kicker there. You know, thirty damage is nice, but taking a precise card is maybe that's freaking insane. So well, well, it really initially wasn't supposed to be so insane. I mean, you think about the context in which ATP was printed and the context where we were able to just rag on the card for being, you know, average at best, and you look at the attackers that have had. Water and metal attackers were not particularly strong. I mean, the best attacker that eventually made its way into the ATP archetype in you know what, three formats ago, was the Keldeo Gx, and that capped out at one hundred and forty damage, I believe, for its attack. There's a very say what there's us of the bird. Oh, the bird trio, sure, but the the kind of Nice thing about the bird trio was that, generally speaking, I remember like the Victini setting up the ATP, setting up the birds. Yeah, you know, it was taking way more time. So you again, looking back at that context, you didn't really have those same attackers. kind of that Josh in is, which is something that just one shots tag teams blows most things out of the water easily to shotting a lot of the v Max has and the other thing that really well, there are two other things that I want to highlight. Is helping ATP right now in terms of the context of the metagame. That maybe wasn't the case pre rotation or, you know, multiple formats ago in ATP was first printed. was that our reliance on set up pokemon. So you literally cannot play a deck. I think, well, you can't play Dex, but it's ninety percent of x right now and certainly the tier one decks all play the den and Crobat. You just can't really get around that. You need the speed, you need that you know, aggressive play that did an and Crowback can give you. And the other thing that helps ATP right now and wasn't as much of a factor in formats passed, was, you know, the lack of a fairy attacker to keep ATP in check. We used to have mimic you with its, you know, retaliate style attack that could hit into an ATP and, you know, reasonably one shot at right if they had used if they had used an attack on the fin on the previous turn. And we just don't have those fairy attackers. So you're leaving this thing kind of unchecked in this weird sword and shield meadow where it really wasn't as bad before because the context around the card was different. Yeah, I would actually I'd like to digest the arguments a little further, because I think ATP was still a problem at a card from a design stampoint shirts really sure. So the crux of the arguments boiled down to the fact that ATP accelerates the game inherently by taking extra prize cards. The game is faster, and what that'll do is the the main example people points you, although it this is not the only affected archetype, is the one prize decks. The one...

...prize decks will lose in four turns, basically the ultra creation gx turn and the three knockouts subsequently, whereas previously they would have, you know, six to seven turns to win the game, and those turns are honestly crucial because normally one prize decks, with the exception of baby will Cephalon, which is pretty much the only one that remains viable to this day. They have to trade multiple all attacks, and that's the idea. Is like you're you're swinging multiple times. You know, maybe you get one big knockout in the middle there, but you're trading favorably because the prize exchange is in your favor because you're using these weaker one prize attackers, and the tradeoff for that is, you know, you have weaker and attackers. Inherently you have less consistency because you don't play as many like drop pokemon. Sure your attacks are usually like more complicated to use. So you trade off that inconsistency for favorable prize exchange, and that that element is just completely removed with ATP for the most part. I mean there's not like a realistic way that most one prize decks can trade into it. So that's a that's one fault of the card. Another one was like what you pointed out, where there's a lot of support pokemon that are two prizes that now lose half the game by themselves. And so if you played two of those pokmon down, ATP attacks twice to win. Yeah, which I mean that sucks. And and part of the reason it sucks is because ATP has a plethora of non three prize attackers. So even if you knock out, you knock out the ATP. And this is my counter argument to your fairy weakness thing. Sure so, even if you knock out the ATP instantly as soon as altered creations. They still have two attackers that you have to go through because they they won't put another three prize or on the board. So, like the prize math is just very good for ATP and they have a lot of ways to manipulate the game state in their favor. And I would say the cars like mimic you wouldn't be that big of a deal now because you know it's a responsive card, like you have to choose it and maybe it's yeah and no, no, I like of course, but I think the for me, it's like you're never really maybe a turn. It is if you have everything go right, like there's really never a chance for you to gust up in ATP like before even you know, taking out mimic you, because of course that's a reactive card. But even so, like if they had some kind of fairy archetype or fairy attacker that could reliably like gust up an ATP before it's gx attack, I mean that that would give some kind of counter. That would just be enough. That would card right if it could be sure damage before ATP gets to attachments. I mean, I will play that card anyway. Sounds pretty good, but you're right, the removal of fairy type obviously removes some weaknesses for ATP, but I would also say the addition of Zashan already kind of serve that effect right where you could not play guard of our any way to beat up on ATPS, because option would tear through them for four prizes each. It's just like there's no positional guard of our still legal. You can play it if you really want to. Really the the fairy weakness argument ties in for me more to just support the argument that ATP was never meant for this format. Right at he wasn't. ATP Wasn't supposed to be here. You know, it was the kid that it was the cool kid that got invited to the NERD party. You know, I'd like, really wasn't a card that was designed for sword and shield on. I mean I kind of agree, but I mean you make you can make those same arguments for every time we have like a set block right like this. X Y cards weren't meant to be played with the sword of Gil or the Sunny Moon cards and the black white cards Werena. But you have, I mean, but think, but think about it specifically though, with this right you have, you have ATP which does you know? Water and metal like that, those are the two archetypes that it can reasonably go into. I mean, we talked about bird trio and that's, you know, kind of a whole different thing. But like most most efficiently, water or metal types are where this card kind of goes into. And then you release the new game sword and shield and it's based around metal types and like they're kind of pigeonholed because what they can't make, you know, Zashin and Zombisana, you know, any other're typing, like they have to be metal types. They can sort the get psychic types, I I guess. But like and then you know, you have to make them pretty strong, right, because they're the freaking faces of the new games. So they are kind of like they pigeon hold themselves, again, leading me to say just that these you could make this argument for a lot of other cards, but particularly for ADP. These are not meant. This card was not meant for this format. Yeah, I mean I would say that. I would just say, like, if we're actually digesting what's wrong with ATP specifically, you can't look at an argument that also applies to all sorts of other cards it's like a facet of it. But it's not like what's wrong with supe? No, no, no, no, for sure, and that's not I'm trying to give like a as holistic over view as...

I possibly can. Sure and so, but I guess the kind of argument I was making was more so like the fairy weakness was already removed, like regardless of their printing, fairy types or not, because she is just so effective against any fairy type attacker, which are all weak to metal. By the way, you could have a behemoth, a five hundred HP very pokmon that does two hundred damage, for to energy or something, and it would one shot that ATP immediately after alter creation every game and then Zosh, and would come up and do five hundred twenty damage to it and it would die so well, I would need some help to do five hundred and twenty, but it's altered creation and then it would do five. Oh, yeah, of course, yeah, I know, you're right. You're right, it does get some help actually. So I don't know, it's just it's unlucky for fairy times. I guess out of the House to describe it. Yeah, for sure, but I think I what I'm trying to digest is I think ATP was problematic anyway pre free format shift, and it was doing pretty consistently well in lots of events. It wasn't winning a ton of them, but it was choking out like pretty large portions of the metagame already before Sword Shield was ever printed. And I think that's actually true, like, yeah, the attackers were weaker, but still we're the pokemon it was generally fighting against, sure, and so I don't know, I I think the card itself is presents it. It's impossible to make a card like that like consistently balanced. I mean we think of extra prize taking mechanics through usually on one pokemon and serve themselves. You know, you have, what is it, DARC Deoxysen Riquez, a legend. You know that that was an awesome, like powerful card and the context of like decks that could play it, but like it could only knock out that like it could only knock out and take extra prizes for itself. You have like the Lugio, which you know is an okay card and it could only take prizes by itself. You have like the I don't know, like the umbreon that did it took extra prizes if you're not going to mega. Pokemon only took a trick surprises if you used it. Sure. So, like it's impossible to like effectively balance ATP because there's always going to be other cards that are around it and just like tag teams themselves are already kind of like ridiculous. So you know where's where's the line, I guess. Sure, so you know you have all these facets. ATP is just an incredibly powerful card. Should ATPP band it becomes the next part of that discussion. I'll give my opinion of what should happen, but I'll also preface that realistically, I don't think pokemon is going to be an ATP. I I was actually completely floored when they banned below. But and rice, a man and standard. I was pretty like Gung Ho that Pokemon doesn't be and cars and standard. I'm pretty much still of that belief. So I don't know what really inspired the below the thing. Maybe they just wanted to turn this to have no no counter, no like quick counter that you could throw into it. That because that was just true. That was just seems so random to me. I don't know. Yeah, but I don't see ATP filling the same niche that they would ban in standard that BELOVEA does. I think, you know, they seem to be fine with it. You know, it's and it's tough because people make these arguments the ATP isn't winning events, which I think is the wrong tape. Sure, because it doesn't matter if it's winning if it chokes out like forty other decks from existing. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think another question that kind of stems off like should ATP band is like should how big should the metagame be? Like, how many decks should there be in anyone metagame? And I've had in the past, I've had very successful times where the Meta game was very small, you know, where you have three decks that really just beat everything else. And you know, you go back even farther to like when I was first getting into the game, where I was just like sp stuff was you you almost couldn't play anything else but sp if you wanted to try to win that tournament. And so that's a question that I ask you is, how big should a metagame be? Is it good to ban ATP because that makes, you know, twenty more decks viable, like is that something that a game designer wants sure the game. Yeah, and I actually I am definitely not of the belief that a large Meta game is a healthy metagame. That being said, and I there's plenty of reasons why that's the case. I'll also just elaborate that further as well. That so a larger metagame actually can make it much harder to balance inherently because there's so many extra factors and interactions that you have to account for. That doesn't mean a large Meta game is unhealthy either, and large Meta Games can be pretty awesome and pretty fun, but it's that's not inherent to like gain balance. Right.

That being said, it's I don't think it's so much the fact that ATP is like, I don't know how to like phrase this. I don't know if it's like the reduction of quantity that like makes ATP bad for a Meta game, but I think it's more like the effect, the net effect, where you know, it chokes out an entire facet of Gameplay, where you cannot play entire swaths of Pokemon at all, basically because ATP will just run them over. Sure, and it's not in the it's not unlike the typical way where like the deck is just stronger and like you have like in a you know, a forty sixty or whatever. But it's like ATP really like puts the beating on these four decks, you know, especially these one prize and even to prize decks that just can't keep up with the damage output or the price rating. So I would say the counterpoint to that is a small Meta game can be very good and like a mirror heavy Meta game can be very good, but I don't think ATP mirrors are fun or good at all. I think they're actually quite bad. Yeah, so, you know, that's a point away from ATP. Sure, whereas you compare it to like a mirror, like like a luck shot mirror, is actually very interesting, you know. Yeah, it was like a holy dominated Meta game. Sure, sure, yeah, there's there's not much interplay. I mean you're right. With like an ATP mirror it's like, okay, well, did you play, did Anne, and did you you know? Or did you play Crobat? Like, okay, you lose or what you know? Really it's trying to keep those things off the board and sometimes, again, like we're saying in way earlier in the cast, it's like it's almost impossible to not play down didn a and Cro bad just because they are so good. Yeah, and I like kind of lost my train of thought, but I was here to so the other piece of that is ATP's also just ridiculously straightforward. So I think if you're going to have like a very centered Meta game, the deck should be thoughtful and like interesting. You know, like a Meta game that's centered around Zorark is more interesting than a Meta game at center had ATP because there's more happening and inherently to any card game, the more turns it takes to win, the more opportunities there are for strategic decisions to be made. ATP is trying to shorten the game to his few, literally as few turns as possible, to the point where it was games faster than any of that possible, literally possibly could. So yeah, I wondered too. I've been thinking about this a lot. Is What is well, okay, obviously I know the significance of like six prizes being your kind of six pokemon that you would take into battle like that is the canonical equivalent in the VGC of having six Pokmon is having six prizes, but they're really is kind of there doesn't seem to be a real necessary point like to having six prizes. Like six is kind of an arbitrary number because when you look at competitive VGC, they don't necessarily play with six POKMON. You know, they'll do kind of a drafting type system where there they'll only bring a certain number at any one time. But six prizes to me doesn't seem, you know, important. It doesn't seem like a valid number, like they could go up to seven, they could go down to five. It's just an arbitrary number. And so you look at from a game design perspective, maybe they are. I mean, well, obviously they are like trying to shorten the game. So, you know, you look at ATP's attack, you look at tag teams, you look at the v Max's giving up three prizes and then, you said, half the game by knocking one of them out. And from a design perspective, I and I think they are really hitting their mark if that is what they're trying to do, just shortening these games down. Well, I did. So they are didn't successful and I think ATP doesn't achieve that in a healthy way where, yeah, like you know the thing about multiprice Pokemon is you have the choice. You have the choice to play them down, you have the choice to play them over a different kind of deck that offers less prizes, and that's that's been something inherent to any time we had multi prize pokemon. Is You have like the weaker pokmon that can trade favorably into larger prize opponents, and in this is that you don't have that trade with ATP in the in the format. And if their net effect is to make it so you only play Vmax as an ATP, then I guess then like they got their role, like that's what the Meta is. It's v Max has an ATP. Yeah, I don't know if that's like actually their goal, though, or if that was their intent with printing ATP. So let's let's actually get to the crux of this then, JW. What do you think should happen ATP? Do you think it has a place in the format? Do you think it should be banned? Do you think it's a bad card and but should stay anyway? Well, I think, yeah,...

...yeah, I think ultimately it should be banned. I mean, I will take that stance. Like I think it should be banned. I think that if you look at the past bands, particularly the the first bands that pokemon did, things like archaeops, things like wally and forced giant plants, those are kind of the three that I look to in being similar to ATP in the sense that they really stifle certain archetypes to the point and really all archetypes to the point that they had to be like constructed in certain way. ATP certainly fits that mold. On the same excuse me, on the other side of the coin, I am happy to play in I'm happy to play this game with ATP still in the format. I don't think it. You know, there is about five decks that will get to in a second that I think all kind of come to like a tier one standing or can all compete with ATP reasonably fine, and I don't necessarily enjoy a metagame that's so wide open. I really do like to focus on, you know, a handful of decks and really perfect those lists. So yes, I do think ATP should go. However, if they don't choose to ban it, I'll be perfectly content, sure, and I would largely agree with you there. I think, I think the most apt comparison and we talked about this actually this morning in our group chat. I think the most apt comparison is archeops. I think forest and wally little less oak. That's more like item lock chirps, I'm sure from but definitely archeops is a very similar niche to ATP, where completely makes certain types of decks on viable and like, yeah, you can play around it in certain ways, like, you know, vers archeops, you could promote Wab, but like in you know, that's not like a real argument and it's this. It's the same way. Like yeah, like occasionally, like they supper on will beat an ATP deck, but that doesn't mean that like one prize x aren't completely choked out of the game. You know, sure. So I think archaeops is very apt comparison. And archaeops got banned in the end. Yes, it wasn't expanded, but I think the net effect is pretty similar. I think that's a pretty good comparison. Actually, actually that wasn't what I really thought of until you brought it up. So now do I think pokemon will ban it? I'll re emphasize. I think the answer to that question is still no. And maybe maybe enough people cause enough of the stink that that they do, but I think they're inclination is not to I think they generally want to avoid banning cards and standard and even an expanded they are kind of not apt to really ban cards if they don't really have to. So right, my guess is ATP is here to stay. Do I think it's a battle card? Absolutely, and if you couldn't tell that from the arguments in the town over the last thirty minutes, then I apologize that you're just that dense. Oh, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, of course, but I think it is. You know, I think the arguments are all there and I think there's sound for why ATP is unhealthy in the metagame. Sure, sure, so, so it is. So, it is, so it is. And with that concluding there we have our first segments that we've ever done. This is going to be are occurring thing here on the tag team podcast where we take just a little moment of levity and introduce something to to our listeners that maybe they'd never heard about or a card that they've never heard before. This is the card of the week here and Riley's got it this week. Yeah, I was actually I was bouncing between two cards to present this week, and so I'm going to go with the more fun one of the two, but I'll just save the other one for next time. So the card I want to talk about is an expanded card and it's something that's very near and dear to me, and if you paid attention to past episodes in the podcast, you might be able to infer what it is. So Jwa all kind of describe it for you and you I'll let you see if you can come up with it. So this card is a psychic type POKEMON. It has an ability that applies a status condition to your opponent. It was a key component to one of my earliest decks in my career. Oh hypno, yeah, I have no from brain. Yes, no, from breakpoint. I love that card man. That guy. Still keep my reverse Hallo oil ones and my binder all the time. They're still great man. So, for the unaware, hit do from breakpoint was really the cornerstone of the dark right hit no deck, which was perceived to be the best way to play dark right ex prior to its race in America, which, looking back, is so ridiculous that we anyone ever thought that. So contextualizing the whole story here. Dark Rif, from break point had an attack for one darkness and a double carlist...

...which existed at the time, we would have thought that. It's called dark head, I think. And Yeah, eighty damage and if the POKEMON, the opponents pokemon, was asleep, it did eighty more damage. So you know, on hundred, one hundred and seventy with fighting, about one hundred and eighty with muscle band, which pretty much was the math at the time. Believe it or not, one hundred and eighty used to be a good amount of damage to hit. So hip no was the key to that, though. So hip no had an ability on it called good night babies, which to this day I think is probably the best ability name and Pokemon, and it put both active hookup life to sleep, which seems really, really bad. But then you play the stadium all night party, which is probably the best stadium name and Pokemon history, and it wakes up your active pokemon and heels thirty damage from it. So this deck was just completely ridiculous. It was, but it was so much fun and you have no had this crazy art. It was like almost like drawing Fran and yeah, yeah, but I can like that. Right now. That was so awesome and you know, it was drawn in this wacky style. was so crazy looking. There's a bunch of other cards around this time that were drawn in a similar style and they all kind of like connected to each other. If I just love that card. Man, it's like that's just the fondest memories I have of Pokemon is just sitting in my Dorm Room Sophomore Year of college, getting my first batch of pokemon cards in the mail and playing dark I hypno on the floor of my dorm with my roommates hit against his like mega garradostack like endlessly. Yeah, and that was just so much fun. I remember I'd be sitting in the room and just plugging away and I get like a knock on my door and it was just like a pretty girl coming to ask like if we want to hang out or something or like do homework together. I'm like God, now we're like we're playing a dark hyndower here. Actually, that's so busted. Such fond memories, man, and like I really love Onen pokemon put the creative names and things and literally every card shure that deck just have like a hilarious name attached to yes, I'm sure, good night babies. So you could use your all night party stadium and darkhead your opponents. So ridiculous, unbelievable. Yeah, and so it's crazy to think that that card. Yeah, like you said, because I remember that too. You know, I've been playing for a while at that point and just like I remember being skeptical of it but having friends that were extremely excited and about probably. Yep, it was whambled, absolutely, so I remember. You know. I know that. How do you know that? Because I've gotten I took the list from his chartisard lounge part I changed it a little bit. Oh my God, that was the first list I like ever or like took any for many is. Oh my gosh, I wonder if we could find that. You Do? I got home? All right, yeah, I'll look that up. I think if you searched all night party charts out a lounge, you'll find it. But it just a miraculous time. So I think if I had to distill this card of the week into until like a phrase or a summary Sentence, I would say, you know, play Pokemon because you love it and you have fun doing it. Find the find the elements of the game that to you keep it fun and interesting and make it fun and like no matter what situation you're in, and for me at the time that was good night babies, Hypno with all night party and dark ry. That's amazing. I love it. So looking ahead here into just the general metagame, we do want to give our listeners kind of a brief breakdown of what we've been seeing in the format as it as it stands right now. Riley, what are some of the highlights of this format in terms of the archetypes of decks that you've been seeing performing well in the various amount of online tournaments? Sure so, I mean ATP consistently does well all that. It hasn't really consistently one, but you know, it's probably the most represented deck in every event, so you can't really write it out. One deck that I've seen consistently do very, very well is actually kind of surprised me, but not so much like them more I think about it, but at the time it definitely did, was the mewtwo welder deck. Yeah, that has been a huge come up, as little had his subturnament that it was like four of the top eight or something absurd like that. Really just making itselfknown and as a fan of mewtwo myself, that makes me happy. So yeah, I've excited to take that for a swing. Some other decks that have consistently done well. I think the Lucario me metals Ash Sheen is a pretty viable archetype. It really thrives in a known metagame where you can, you know, build your deck around it. So in the Players Cup...

...a good example of that. You had a very small player base and you so you could much easier predict the kinds of decks and builds you would see, and they took full advantage of that. Got First and second of the CARDIOM metal. And then, of course you have mainstays like a turn of this that consistently do a lot of damage stay at the top. I mean you can never write off at deck that does two hundred seventy damage on turned to. No, absolutely not. Yeah, that's a that's a good overview. We're talking about me too, welder a little bit, being kind of that surprise deck for me. We're just died for a format right when we had drag a poult be, you know, among the best decks. Yeah, that was literally took you to fans literally took me to out of the equation. Not so much for I mean the weakness obviously was very, you know, hard to play around for the music player, but particularly when the mimic you is kind of shifting in and out between those lists. It made it really, really difficult because you know they could put the damage counter on your Geraci if you happen to play it, and then all of a sudden you were just getting one shot over and over again, and so that made it really, really hard. The the welder mewt becoming more of a viable deck, I think really also stems from a lack of ATP Z counter to that. So when ATPZ first was an archetype, you had these things to counter, the tag team Pokemon, like vitality band and like, trying to punishment, and so those did the extra damage counter that you needed. That's option couldn't quite get to, you know, maxing out at two hundred and sixty. With the ATPGXTECH in play right you max out of two hundred and sixty, not quite getting it there against me two. So you would need to play, you know, some kind of damage modifier. And now we come into a format where you know, there aren't really two hundred and seventy HP POKEMON and all of a sudden mutes who can thrive now because you know one matchup that it has atpzation can't hit the numbers, and if ATP is the most played deck and you have a deck that you know get can withstand a couple of hits, then you're in a good position. So I think that's also part of the reason that mew two has done so well. It's just that the ATPC players really haven't respected it. Yeah, I mean I think that's a huge part art, you know, calling even part of the reason almost seems to not do justice. I think you two's match up against ATP decks as they're built right now has served it incredibly well, being able to do that three hundred damage on turn to the mewtwo special and yeah, ATP doesn't have a response. Really, as long as you can avoid getting an immediate response knock out on like a two priser on your bench, then you're pretty much good. So I think that is the the main reason. Me Two, of course, consistently being the deck that has the most tools available to it, the most attacking options, so obviously tends to do well in a wide open metagame, especially in these like early developing Meta Games, where it can play a lot of attacks and kind of finagle its way through a lot of different matchups. I won't be surprised, and I mean if I was playing ATP I would do this as well to especially in the current metagame where Sarachi's has to be moved, the stuff like scoopupnuts and switch, I think just including like a ziggagoon or vitality band or something like that. I mean sure, you know me two's can play big charm. I mean you can play I mean you can go down the rabbit hole forever like beauties. are going to play big charms. Then you're going to play like tool scrappers or you're going to play mimic you or whatever else like it's going to there's going to be some back and fourth elements to it, but I think ATP will have to think about more actively what it can do against me two if it wants to be able to stand a chance in that matchup consistently. Sure, absolutely, absolutely. Any other decks, you look too, Riley, as being near the top of the metagame, or at least contenders amongst the the for decks the talked about being welder me to ATPC eternity is some luke metal. I think one that's kind of like on the fringe is another welter deck in Santa Scorch. I don't think it's as good as Mewtwo, but I think it has some really interesting options. The volcanians really solid one prize attacker, especially against those like wacky kind of counter redecks like Volcanian runs train on deciduo IDEX, for example. Sure, and I think Santa Scorch, I've talked about it before, I think Santa Scorch is actually better than it was for rotation. You know, I kind of ragged on senscorch a little bit pre rotation, not as much as you but still a little bit. I think it is a little bit better now. If it gets like the turble involved going second that's really good, and if it can take a hit then it'll usually snowball the game pretty hard. So you really have to find quick answers to Santa Scorch to be able to consistently stand a chance in the matchup, as long as they're not whiffing. Sure. So I mean...

I don't think it's like the the best deck in the format. I don't know if it really stands up with the rest of those decks, but I think it's pretty good. You know, I wouldn't hit on it. Okay, I am of an opposite opinion. I just think sent to Scorch is pretty stinky. Yeah, I mean, if I was going to play welter deck, that wasn't you two. I would rather play babys AF Falon, sure, which also lost a very important tool, and fiery flint. But yeah, I mean it's not like it doesn't completely wipe it out of the game. The hardest part with flon right now is getting those initial attacks off, and so what I've seen most list do is sort of air towards like leading with a heat ran and vic teeny and things like that, to get energy on the board and the discard pile and still do damage, because I feel like now it's actually way easier to get energy out of the discard than the deck with fiery flint. God. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you still have fire crystal and you still have retrieval. Yeah, so really, yeah, you're right. It's all about just digging it out and getting it to the discard pile to be able to use it. So it's kind of a shift there with baby blue stuff on, like you always in the past you did want it in the discard pile as well because fire crystal was just so strong. But you know, like you said, you had that fiery flant, you could draw it out of the deck. That was more about you could be more aggressive. Now you kind of have to take a more calculated approach. Yeah, and I've been a big baby stuff on fan for the past little while. I've love playing the deck. It's very fun. It's a kind of relaxing, you know. It just like yeah, toss these all the discard pile and I guess your dad or whatever. Yeah, if I'm just logging out, a TCG out it, just want to play a couple games not think about it through hard. I always play Babys of one. Yep. Yeah, it's just it's one of the most satisfying ones, you know, because you get in those situations where you're like yeah, in the game you got, you know, nine energy in the discard pile, I got three fiery flints and you're you know, got one prize left to take it. You just go yeah, you got crystals, you got three crystals. You like crystal, crystal, crystal, you know, get those nine energy. Just blow them up and that's just it's so fun to do extra, extra energy the out of the game. I love especially on like a little peon pokemon. You know, you got like a little SCRALP or, you know, this a listen pot or something. I don't know where SCRULP came to my as are gonna legal. Well, that's just my favorite. That's my favorite pokemon name. SCRULP is a good name. Her comedy. Yeah, a friend that I think you've probably planted this in my mind, but a friend of mine was asking what they should name like a kitten they're going to get, and what came to mind for me, and still he was screlp. I think scrub actually be like a cool name for a little kitten. SCRALP. Humph, yeah, interesting. Well, like we're going on mind for my next my next cat. Yeah, your next cat that's definitely becoming a Squirrel, oh for sure. are like that'll be like its official name and then like Ann will have to rename it, like give it a nickname or something. Yeah, so I'll pose that to you, though. What other kind of niche decks do you have your eye on? Yeah, I mean I've always loved and telling on, and that seems if you have watched any content creator over the last week, it's kind of actually turned into a little bit of a joke where everyone is playing and telly on and, you know, toward goes into top four of the Players Cup playing and telly on. It's just been kind of a meme that's been kind of poked fun add just because it seems like everyone is oh my gosh, now with rotation, you know, and tell hand can be played. But you know, I was I was always a proponent of Tellian. The the the real ones out there know that I've always loved in telling on. And Yeah, now that we don't have pe ground, now that we don't really have a viable lightning attack, or that was what I consider to be the biggest thing holding it back. You know, you're definitely going to struggle with a few of the decks out there. It turn it just comes to mind as being just a very difficult matchup them being able to outpace you in terms of damage for, you know, a relatively cheap cost and then being able to accelerate to themselves is really tough. So but aside from that, I mean you have decent match ups. You know, you can beat ATP. I think that's one of the better matchups for the deck. So you know, you look into an Atpez heavy metagame and certainly a deck I can telling on can thrive. Beautiful. I mean, who doesn't want to throw it out an tell you on? I know I do. That's what I'm saying, Bro. That's and you got all this fire stuff, like people are clinging to their scent, to scorches, like praying that they wake up and one day sent the scorches. A good deck and you just need to eat those people insane. Eat those people. Any other decks on the on the fringe that are coming out to you? I just I don't know. I've been having a lot of fun doing the speed run challenge. If you guys haven't seen it, on my youtube I've been uploading the vodds of some of the most hilarious parts of them, but I really actually enjoyed playing butterfree.

It was that was that was a fun one too. For some reason, like the the status conditions really trick me. They really trick me. I always try to make, you know, confusion work or like poisons the worst, trying to make that work, and it usually doesn't, because you think about the you think about confusion like I think in my mind when I confuse the opponent, I'm like, Oh, yeah, they definitely cannot attack next turn. But in reality it's like they have a fifty shot of, you know, being able to attack or they could find a switch or they could have birdkeeper or so one of them. What's that? That's more than it. Yeah, yeah, so, well, yeah, more than fifty for them to actually in the tack off. But in my brain it's like im I got him, now, I got him, they're done. That's so funny. Yes, I can. I can relate to that, though. So it's like they would the better for they would never attack this confusion here. Yeah, and then they do and they knock you out and you're like well, well, Dan, they were just stupid. You know, it wasn't that my deck was bad, it was like they may really suboptimal for them do that. Kind of believe the attactor confusion. They always and that's that's when you go to your friends between rounds of regional they always have it. Man, he flipped heads. Done that could connect one tail one. Why can't I get one tail switch every tier? I stare to the two tet the switch. So butterfree. Yeah, I know that Israel Sosa did perform well in some online tournament. I'm blanking on the name, but you know, maybe making butterfree somewhat viable with his list is particular list. So that is to note that it has performed well one time, but every one online turner say what Butterfreez will rising star? For sure it is. Yes, but yes, I am always seduced by the status conditions. It's better for your favorite deck that came out of the speed run, yeah, I would say so, or the mew deck. I mean it's always fun when you are one shouting things with poor gun, because when it all works, it's so beautiful, you know, when you can get all the energy on, because then it like your opponent has to make this choice where do they attack into like a support Pokemon, or do they attack into your attacker? And then you know, sometimes they maybe make the wrong choice and then you just body them and you can one shot. That's a lot of fun as well. I love the poor gun based decks and playing poor gun with mew. Although it is worse than Whimsicott, it's still, you know, it's still a really fun deck. Yeah, I will say I do like Pryon decks, but I'm getting a little bit disillusion by them, just because I feel like there's so many variations that I've seen of pouring out and they all basically are the same. In the last sure, it last like week and a half, two weeks. It's like, you know, maybe this is because I watch Andrew Stream too much, play a loves for God, but you know, there's the miraclous, there's the Lizzie, which is now rotated, there's view, there's elements. It's like, you know, you're just playing port got or cycle energy use. Sure, gretting a little disillusioned to poor God, for sure, but I do I do love the poor God decks. Counting money, says flapp will, Sable Ie. He definitely bodied me with his version of that deck, which was very, very fun, using flapp will, the spread damage counters and stable ie to you know, accelerate with turbo patch and just go in for one shots. That was a very cool deck. Oh yeah, it I mean it's been A. It's been a fun time exploring and this new format and I hope that I'll maintain this kind of joy that that I currently feel playing the game, because I do feel like the game has been fun for me and I don't know, I think a lot of people have been really kind of negative towards the format, particularly in regards to ATP, but I don't quite feel that way. I still feel like there are things that we can explore, things we can do, archetypes to create and counters to find, so I do think that format is more fun than the pre rotation. Yeah, I will stand by that. I do have one other question about the speed run before we completely move away. Do you think Pedro is gonna Steal Away your world record for darkness ablaze? Bro Oh, I don't know, man, I don't know if he is. I was watching today. Well, okay, so the thing, the thing that separated me from Pedro was that he started over like two or three times. Oh, you can't remember. He's going for it. I know he like he's try harding it, really like he's try harding and I get I that's respect, man, respect, but he did restart a couple of times. That's all I'm saying, I mean that's the are not running right. Like, no, I know you. I guess you can do that. I just I'm just saying I got mine on the first try and I thought it was pretty good record, I thought. I thought...

...four and a half hours looks like pretty good. He's probably going to beat I think he has me buy about ten minutes right now. Yeah, well, I was watching, how's watching one of your games. I've watched all the other Youtube uploads so far and some I sometimes I think your game actions themselves were optimized. That's a that's the key of the speed run. Oh, yeah, for sure. No, no, absolutely, there's some of the things that I was doing were like not the best, but at the same time, you know, it's you just got to go fast and sometimes you just don't think about it. Yeah, so I just remember I was watching like man, your split, just attack, man. Oh Yeah, you know, for Sel like debating about wishing to attacking, like who cares, it's attack. There's definitely some drama there. That's a so, so let's open up. I think we have if hit the time. So yeah, that people watching live. Feel free to post questions if you got them. Will take three to four questions for wrap up to day. We really appreciate all your viewership as we head into the third season of tag team. Couldn't have made it this far without all of your support. Really can't express our appreciation enough. If you're listening on a podcasting platform, be sure to leave a review. It makes it easier to discover boost this up in the hidden ranking systems that they have there as you interact more with our material. The Algorithm, the algorithm, as it were. The Algorithm, that's where we're going to be controlled by man. People are like, Oh, you know, computers are going to control as well. To an extent, I think it's going to be more the algorithm is going to decide who should be controlled and who should be let free. So just make sure you're in good standing with the algorithm. You can do that by leaving a review for us. Yeah, yeah, make sure that we don't get controlled by the computer overlords by leaving a review. So yeah, that's that's for sure. Exactly how early? I had one question that got posed in my discord and I'll read it here quickly. Sorry I had to I had another screen open. But talking about just current, current decks, is there anything that you haven't tried yet that you want to try that you think maybe could be, you know it's here two or tier three deck or something that you just think could have some place in the metagame, but maybe that you haven't tried yet or that you haven't seen anyone else try? There's like two things I'm thinking of. I want to try every single v Max because I think they're all similar enough where they have like a potential amongst each other. Yeah, so I kind of want to mess with all of them and I haven't messed up very many yet, really only played with the mainstays, but I want to get down in the weeds of like the Stone Jarners and they laugh force has and the and the butter freeze and all those guys. Yeah, the other answer to this question is I want to try some Post Rowe Peeka rob and I I know electric power is a shame, that a rounds a shame, but you know, maybe there's like some world where Accelrat a much energy and like wrapping up with a bolt on is like a viable strategy. I don't know. What do you think makes it? What do you think makes a good like I just worry that it struggles to get you know, I I don't think I've just mats ionea says. Mahone was playing post rotation peak around today. Kind of bad. I'm just picturing like you accelerate with a full blitz and then you, yeah, then you attack like to Boltons or something. Okay, yeah, so then the prize trades are more your favors. Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean I think just not being able to reach up to those high numbers. It's just gonna yeah, actually, it's probably it's fine, not great, but you asked what I wanted to try. That's something I want to try. Fair enough, fair enough, Mass Dave says. I feel like one vmax being slept on now. That could be a that we have a slight more acceleration options for. It. COULD BE VAL Malamar v Max. Haven't seen a single person try it. Don't worry, when I when I eventually test every v Max to it's optimal potential, Malamar will no doubt be a part of that list. I Think v Max's are kind of cool in the sense that they are I mean we're at the earliest block of them, so like they're a little bit more vanilla and I think, you know, the more that we see, I think the you know, they're obviously just getting more text added to them, you know, the farther in that we go. And so, yeah, it kind of feels cool to play v Max is in the sense that you could almost choose...

...any v Max and just kind of like make a deck around it, and they all kind of look similar, you know what I mean, like it's like we were talking about this earlier in our chat, whereas like do you want Red v Max or do you want it's a little little v Max? I I will go phone record and saying that I think all the v Max's are basically the same pokemon card, but in the colors and it. I think the v Max themselves are like occupy similar ish levels of power, but it's it's the support around, though, that like yeah, thanks, I'm good. Yeah, I'll stand by that. I think that's true. Fairness it as an Anti v Max kind of Guy, but who still wants to try them all because they're kind of you want to try them all, but you hate them. Yeah, I do like this love hate relationship. I don't like v Max's. Is like card design and cards in general, but I mean, Hey, I want to try every every single color. Sure, sure, sure. You know. Leon asked when you think live events are going to start up again. Play? Not for another year? Man. Yeah, I know they're try I know they're trying it in other card games. If I if I remember rights, like magic is. I don't want to Miss Speak, but I thought I heard somewhere that magic is starting an online or in person type event. Yeah, I just don't see anything like sustainably happening until there's a vaccine, which I don't see that happening until at least late two thousand and twenty one. Yep, Yep. So, I mean I think there are some local card stores, but I think even those won't probably be the norm at least until certainly until next year and probably not even till like midway through next year. I would also just advise against it, like even you're taking the best precautions for yourself, like you can't guarantee that from every single person that's going to those kind of things. Yeah, sure, sure, but at the same time, I mean if you're unconcerned with that and you're in a group of people that is also unconcerned, I mean there are something I would counterpoint that and say, like it doesn't matter, really matter if you're concerned because, like your web extends to other people who might be concerned. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yes, okay, be responsible, is all we're trying to say. But at the same time, I think for mental health, for some people, it might be worth the risk. At the mental health argument. To me, I think I think you should do you know, should do it's right for you, but I would restrict your gatherings to like very small, like intimate circles, yeah, with people who you know have been similarly responsible to yourself. Sure that that's that's probably a good way to pay, you know, when you when you're in thrust in your card game environment, like you don't actually know like who could be there or you know what they did in the hour before showing up even sure, so I would generally advise, like against putting yourselves in those scenarios. But you know, if you want to play with like you're very close group of friends who have all been responsible, and social distance and you know, play cards for a couple hours, like, you know, I can't fault you for that. You know, I understand, like it's hard not to well and and one of the hardest things to just being social is that when you get with somebody that you haven't seen in a while, or even somebody that you have seen a while that you just enjoy being around and like you you know in your mind that, Oh, you know, I should stay, you know, x number of feet away from them and I should wear my mask and I should do all the take all these precautions, like a lot of times you just let your guard down around those types of people, you know, and so that's one of the things that that it's just an unintended consequence, I guess, of like getting with other people as like you're just going to kind of be a little bit more relaxed around the people that you know. So as much as we could say you know, you know that that you could maybe go to an event or go to a shop if it was socially distanced and, you know, if all these precautions were taken. I think a lot of times and I find myself slipping into these maybe bad habits. But just like when you get with somebody that you're very comfortable with, you can often, you know, let that comfortability, you know, open up into into the guidelines that you've set for yourself in terms of anti covid measures. Yeah, I mean I would say, if you're walking away with this from today's episode, of anything, I'd say, you know, continue to stay safe and healthy and and also express that empathy for for other people, because your actions don't just affect yourself in the context of the situation that we're dealing with. Sure any last words? Aw before we take it away. It's been a great week, guys. Thank you so much again for listening to this episode. I've had a lot of fun, so preciate all you guys listening to ship. We'll say one more time and good night, my babies.

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