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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 1 · 1 year ago

3-1. ADPee

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are here for Season 3 and are ready to lay down the law on Arceus Dialga and Palkia. Should they be banned, or are they just another powerful card?

What's up everybody? Welcome back totag team, the POKEMON Trading Card Games from your podcasting duo, now inseason three, the world premiere. You're here, you're seeing it or hearingit for the first time and we're so excited to bring it to you.So, JW, how does it feel? How are you doing? I'm doinggreat, Riley. We we just premiered our newest logo update, whichI'm super stoked about it. If you guys haven't seen that, I meanyou probably would have if you're watching it later, if you're watching it live, you may not have seen it. You can go over to the twitterwe've updated it there, but if you're watching it later, I mean youprobably seen it when you touched on the logo to download the podcast. Butthat feels really cool. Got Another few things in the mix here. We'redoing the full grip online series officially starting in two weeks from yesterday, whichI'm stoked about. And Yeah, we're starting a new season of tag team, which just all these things are really big things for celebration. Yeah,for sure. And to clarify, two weeks from yesterday would be the fifteen. That's correct. It's remember fifty stuff. Yep, and that's bi weekly onTuesdays. For now we are limiting it to buy weekly. We wantto, you know, first of all, just just kind of take it slowto start, just to make sure, because you know, Andrew Values Andrewand I and also Natalie, I mean just for the whole like fullbrand, just making sure that everything is like perfect for the players, youknow, that there's no stone left unturn, that it runs smoothly, that it'sjust this great experience for players, because that's that's what it's all about. It's about you guys. It's about who plays in these tournaments and thatthey get the maximum experience. And so just making sure that we can,you know, don't promise too much too soon, because I think there willbe a pretty high demand for something like this because they know the quality thatyou know that Andrew and and I and Natalie and you full grip in generaljust produces. So taking it slow. Could increase at some point depending on, you know, a few different factors. But yeah, that'LL BE BI weekly. Awesome. Well, if you're excited about that, the prospect ofplaying in a full grip weekly event. I mean I'm sure a lot ofpeople are already excited about the idea who maybe wanted to play in real lifebut it's just, you know, too far away or whatever. Here's theperfect time to bridge that gap, right. Yeah, yeah, well, Ithink one thing that sets this online series apart from other online series isjust that, you know, we will be doing a cash buy it andI think a lot of people like to play for those higher stakes and theylike to play for those higher stakes on a regular basis. And you know, five bucks, you know, for a lot of people, isn't likea huge thing. You know, it's not like going to be cutthroat byany means, but you know, if you have sixty four people, theyeach put in five bucks and the winner gets, you know, a hundredbucks or a couple hundred bucks, whatever it is, that's that's a greattournament. Yeah, that's a really exciting tournament. So, you know,it'll be it'll be something that I think a lot of players will gravitate towardsjust because they could walk out of the event with a booster box or abooster box and a half and really feel like they they got their money's worth. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love who doesn't love money? Well, I sure do. Yes, as you and this lover of money,I have been known to enjoy money. Speaking of money, I have beenaveraging. I've been doing my senses walks, all right, so going doortodoor,I've been averaging over a penny per shift. Incredible. I don't knowwhat it is. I've been really curious as to why that is. Likeis it because I'm walking in certain, you know, economic areas, oris it because the houses are just more closely, you know, connected,or is it because, like, people pay more with cash in this area? I don't know. It's been really interesting because I only find pennies.I found like one dime, but I didn't pick it up because those onsomebody's front porch, and then like one quarter, which I did pick upbecause it was on the sidewalk. But other than that, I mean it'sbeen like eleven pennies. That's insane. So it is pretty crazy. I'mmakes them eleven pennies. It makes me wonder what's going to happen when,you know, the US eventually rotates out the penny and makes the nickel thesmallest form of currency that we have. Do you know how that how thatprocess works. How do they? Well, they've got they've done it in Canada. So basically what happens is, like turn them in? No,you don't turn them in. You still can use them. But, like, I think stores can choose whether or not to implement this system where,you know, they round up or round down. So if you're stuck withsomething that's like, let's say it's point nine three, then you would roundit up too, ninety five, and...

...if it's ninety two, you roundit down two point nine interesting, and then you give you know, kindof that rounded off change. But how do you like stop the circulation?You know, like how do you prevent them from continuing to move around?That's a good question. I am not sure about that. I mean I'msure there's some type of like government, maybe not buy back, but likea like a voluntary you know, just turn us in your pennies and we'llgive you the exact value back. But yeah, I'm not sure how theywould like phase out a coin. Yeah, it's an interesting topic. I'm surethere's like twenty youtube videos on it. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sureI could find this out with like very little effort. So for surenot a huge deal. Let's jump right into it then. So talk ofthe tab this week has been one card in particular is really drawn a lotof people's attention, and that is our good friend, one of the mosthated cards on tag team, RCS DALGA and Palkya gx. Yeah, weused to rag on this card all the time for how crappy it was inthe context of the Free Sword Shield format. It's funny. It's funny that it'sreached the state that it has. Yeah, I mean it's not likeincredibly I logical or anything. You know, here we are. And so,to give context for the unaware, RC Staga Pacio, otherwise known asATP, has the gx attack altered creation gx, and so for the measilycost of a water and a metal energy, you can perform the altar creation gxwith the additional effect of performing thirty more damage for the rest of thegame at all of your attacks, not just RCRC STAG and Pako, allof your Pokemon, and taking an additional price card. And taking additional pricecard is really the kicker there. You know, thirty damage is nice,but taking a precise card is maybe that's freaking insane. So well, well, it really initially wasn't supposed to be so insane. I mean, youthink about the context in which ATP was printed and the context where we wereable to just rag on the card for being, you know, average atbest, and you look at the attackers that have had. Water and metalattackers were not particularly strong. I mean, the best attacker that eventually made itsway into the ATP archetype in you know what, three formats ago,was the Keldeo Gx, and that capped out at one hundred and forty damage, I believe, for its attack. There's a very say what there's usof the bird. Oh, the bird trio, sure, but the thekind of Nice thing about the bird trio was that, generally speaking, Iremember like the Victini setting up the ATP, setting up the birds. Yeah,you know, it was taking way more time. So you again,looking back at that context, you didn't really have those same attackers. kindof that Josh in is, which is something that just one shots tag teamsblows most things out of the water easily to shotting a lot of the vMax has and the other thing that really well, there are two other thingsthat I want to highlight. Is helping ATP right now in terms of thecontext of the metagame. That maybe wasn't the case pre rotation or, youknow, multiple formats ago in ATP was first printed. was that our relianceon set up pokemon. So you literally cannot play a deck. I think, well, you can't play Dex, but it's ninety percent of x rightnow and certainly the tier one decks all play the den and Crobat. Youjust can't really get around that. You need the speed, you need thatyou know, aggressive play that did an and Crowback can give you. Andthe other thing that helps ATP right now and wasn't as much of a factorin formats passed, was, you know, the lack of a fairy attacker tokeep ATP in check. We used to have mimic you with its,you know, retaliate style attack that could hit into an ATP and, youknow, reasonably one shot at right if they had used if they had usedan attack on the fin on the previous turn. And we just don't havethose fairy attackers. So you're leaving this thing kind of unchecked in this weirdsword and shield meadow where it really wasn't as bad before because the context aroundthe card was different. Yeah, I would actually I'd like to digest thearguments a little further, because I think ATP was still a problem at acard from a design stampoint shirts really sure. So the crux of the arguments boileddown to the fact that ATP accelerates the game inherently by taking extra prizecards. The game is faster, and what that'll do is the the mainexample people points you, although it this is not the only affected archetype,is the one prize decks. The one...

...prize decks will lose in four turns, basically the ultra creation gx turn and the three knockouts subsequently, whereas previouslythey would have, you know, six to seven turns to win the game, and those turns are honestly crucial because normally one prize decks, with theexception of baby will Cephalon, which is pretty much the only one that remainsviable to this day. They have to trade multiple all attacks, and that'sthe idea. Is like you're you're swinging multiple times. You know, maybeyou get one big knockout in the middle there, but you're trading favorably becausethe prize exchange is in your favor because you're using these weaker one prize attackers, and the tradeoff for that is, you know, you have weaker andattackers. Inherently you have less consistency because you don't play as many like droppokemon. Sure your attacks are usually like more complicated to use. So youtrade off that inconsistency for favorable prize exchange, and that that element is just completelyremoved with ATP for the most part. I mean there's not like a realisticway that most one prize decks can trade into it. So that's athat's one fault of the card. Another one was like what you pointed out, where there's a lot of support pokemon that are two prizes that now losehalf the game by themselves. And so if you played two of those pokmondown, ATP attacks twice to win. Yeah, which I mean that sucks. And and part of the reason it sucks is because ATP has a plethoraof non three prize attackers. So even if you knock out, you knockout the ATP. And this is my counter argument to your fairy weakness thing. Sure so, even if you knock out the ATP instantly as soon asaltered creations. They still have two attackers that you have to go through becausethey they won't put another three prize or on the board. So, likethe prize math is just very good for ATP and they have a lot ofways to manipulate the game state in their favor. And I would say thecars like mimic you wouldn't be that big of a deal now because you knowit's a responsive card, like you have to choose it and maybe it's yeahand no, no, I like of course, but I think the forme, it's like you're never really maybe a turn. It is if youhave everything go right, like there's really never a chance for you to gustup in ATP like before even you know, taking out mimic you, because ofcourse that's a reactive card. But even so, like if they hadsome kind of fairy archetype or fairy attacker that could reliably like gust up anATP before it's gx attack, I mean that that would give some kind ofcounter. That would just be enough. That would card right if it couldbe sure damage before ATP gets to attachments. I mean, I will play thatcard anyway. Sounds pretty good, but you're right, the removal offairy type obviously removes some weaknesses for ATP, but I would also say the additionof Zashan already kind of serve that effect right where you could not playguard of our any way to beat up on ATPS, because option would tearthrough them for four prizes each. It's just like there's no positional guard ofour still legal. You can play it if you really want to. Reallythe the fairy weakness argument ties in for me more to just support the argumentthat ATP was never meant for this format. Right at he wasn't. ATP Wasn'tsupposed to be here. You know, it was the kid that it wasthe cool kid that got invited to the NERD party. You know,I'd like, really wasn't a card that was designed for sword and shield on. I mean I kind of agree, but I mean you make you canmake those same arguments for every time we have like a set block right likethis. X Y cards weren't meant to be played with the sword of Gilor the Sunny Moon cards and the black white cards Werena. But you have, I mean, but think, but think about it specifically though, withthis right you have, you have ATP which does you know? Water andmetal like that, those are the two archetypes that it can reasonably go into. I mean, we talked about bird trio and that's, you know,kind of a whole different thing. But like most most efficiently, water ormetal types are where this card kind of goes into. And then you releasethe new game sword and shield and it's based around metal types and like they'rekind of pigeonholed because what they can't make, you know, Zashin and Zombisana,you know, any other're typing, like they have to be metal types. They can sort the get psychic types, I I guess. But like andthen you know, you have to make them pretty strong, right,because they're the freaking faces of the new games. So they are kind oflike they pigeon hold themselves, again, leading me to say just that theseyou could make this argument for a lot of other cards, but particularly forADP. These are not meant. This card was not meant for this format. Yeah, I mean I would say that. I would just say,like, if we're actually digesting what's wrong with ATP specifically, you can't lookat an argument that also applies to all sorts of other cards it's like afacet of it. But it's not like what's wrong with supe? No,no, no, no, for sure, and that's not I'm trying to givelike a as holistic over view as...

I possibly can. Sure and so, but I guess the kind of argument I was making was more so likethe fairy weakness was already removed, like regardless of their printing, fairy typesor not, because she is just so effective against any fairy type attacker,which are all weak to metal. By the way, you could have abehemoth, a five hundred HP very pokmon that does two hundred damage, forto energy or something, and it would one shot that ATP immediately after altercreation every game and then Zosh, and would come up and do five hundredtwenty damage to it and it would die so well, I would need somehelp to do five hundred and twenty, but it's altered creation and then itwould do five. Oh, yeah, of course, yeah, I know, you're right. You're right, it does get some help actually. SoI don't know, it's just it's unlucky for fairy times. I guess outof the House to describe it. Yeah, for sure, but I think Iwhat I'm trying to digest is I think ATP was problematic anyway pre freeformat shift, and it was doing pretty consistently well in lots of events.It wasn't winning a ton of them, but it was choking out like prettylarge portions of the metagame already before Sword Shield was ever printed. And Ithink that's actually true, like, yeah, the attackers were weaker, but stillwe're the pokemon it was generally fighting against, sure, and so Idon't know, I I think the card itself is presents it. It's impossibleto make a card like that like consistently balanced. I mean we think ofextra prize taking mechanics through usually on one pokemon and serve themselves. You know, you have, what is it, DARC Deoxysen Riquez, a legend.You know that that was an awesome, like powerful card and the context oflike decks that could play it, but like it could only knock out thatlike it could only knock out and take extra prizes for itself. You havelike the Lugio, which you know is an okay card and it could onlytake prizes by itself. You have like the I don't know, like theumbreon that did it took extra prizes if you're not going to mega. Pokemononly took a trick surprises if you used it. Sure. So, likeit's impossible to like effectively balance ATP because there's always going to be other cardsthat are around it and just like tag teams themselves are already kind of likeridiculous. So you know where's where's the line, I guess. Sure,so you know you have all these facets. ATP is just an incredibly powerful card. Should ATPP band it becomes the next part of that discussion. I'llgive my opinion of what should happen, but I'll also preface that realistically,I don't think pokemon is going to be an ATP. I I was actuallycompletely floored when they banned below. But and rice, a man and standard. I was pretty like Gung Ho that Pokemon doesn't be and cars and standard. I'm pretty much still of that belief. So I don't know what really inspiredthe below the thing. Maybe they just wanted to turn this to haveno no counter, no like quick counter that you could throw into it.That because that was just true. That was just seems so random to me. I don't know. Yeah, but I don't see ATP filling the sameniche that they would ban in standard that BELOVEA does. I think, youknow, they seem to be fine with it. You know, it's andit's tough because people make these arguments the ATP isn't winning events, which Ithink is the wrong tape. Sure, because it doesn't matter if it's winningif it chokes out like forty other decks from existing. Yeah, yeah,I mean I think another question that kind of stems off like should ATP bandis like should how big should the metagame be? Like, how many decksshould there be in anyone metagame? And I've had in the past, I'vehad very successful times where the Meta game was very small, you know,where you have three decks that really just beat everything else. And you know, you go back even farther to like when I was first getting into thegame, where I was just like sp stuff was you you almost couldn't playanything else but sp if you wanted to try to win that tournament. Andso that's a question that I ask you is, how big should a metagamebe? Is it good to ban ATP because that makes, you know,twenty more decks viable, like is that something that a game designer wants surethe game. Yeah, and I actually I am definitely not of the beliefthat a large Meta game is a healthy metagame. That being said, andI there's plenty of reasons why that's the case. I'll also just elaborate thatfurther as well. That so a larger metagame actually can make it much harderto balance inherently because there's so many extra factors and interactions that you have toaccount for. That doesn't mean a large Meta game is unhealthy either, andlarge Meta Games can be pretty awesome and pretty fun, but it's that's notinherent to like gain balance. Right.

That being said, it's I don'tthink it's so much the fact that ATP is like, I don't know howto like phrase this. I don't know if it's like the reduction of quantitythat like makes ATP bad for a Meta game, but I think it's morelike the effect, the net effect, where you know, it chokes outan entire facet of Gameplay, where you cannot play entire swaths of Pokemon atall, basically because ATP will just run them over. Sure, and it'snot in the it's not unlike the typical way where like the deck is juststronger and like you have like in a you know, a forty sixty orwhatever. But it's like ATP really like puts the beating on these four decks, you know, especially these one prize and even to prize decks that justcan't keep up with the damage output or the price rating. So I wouldsay the counterpoint to that is a small Meta game can be very good andlike a mirror heavy Meta game can be very good, but I don't thinkATP mirrors are fun or good at all. I think they're actually quite bad.Yeah, so, you know, that's a point away from ATP.Sure, whereas you compare it to like a mirror, like like a luckshot mirror, is actually very interesting, you know. Yeah, it waslike a holy dominated Meta game. Sure, sure, yeah, there's there's notmuch interplay. I mean you're right. With like an ATP mirror it's like, okay, well, did you play, did Anne, and didyou you know? Or did you play Crobat? Like, okay, youlose or what you know? Really it's trying to keep those things off theboard and sometimes, again, like we're saying in way earlier in the cast, it's like it's almost impossible to not play down didn a and Cro badjust because they are so good. Yeah, and I like kind of lost mytrain of thought, but I was here to so the other piece ofthat is ATP's also just ridiculously straightforward. So I think if you're going tohave like a very centered Meta game, the deck should be thoughtful and likeinteresting. You know, like a Meta game that's centered around Zorark is moreinteresting than a Meta game at center had ATP because there's more happening and inherentlyto any card game, the more turns it takes to win, the moreopportunities there are for strategic decisions to be made. ATP is trying to shortenthe game to his few, literally as few turns as possible, to thepoint where it was games faster than any of that possible, literally possibly could. So yeah, I wondered too. I've been thinking about this a lot. Is What is well, okay, obviously I know the significance of likesix prizes being your kind of six pokemon that you would take into battle likethat is the canonical equivalent in the VGC of having six Pokmon is having sixprizes, but they're really is kind of there doesn't seem to be a realnecessary point like to having six prizes. Like six is kind of an arbitrarynumber because when you look at competitive VGC, they don't necessarily play with six POKMON. You know, they'll do kind of a drafting type system where therethey'll only bring a certain number at any one time. But six prizes tome doesn't seem, you know, important. It doesn't seem like a valid number, like they could go up to seven, they could go down tofive. It's just an arbitrary number. And so you look at from agame design perspective, maybe they are. I mean, well, obviously theyare like trying to shorten the game. So, you know, you lookat ATP's attack, you look at tag teams, you look at the vMax's giving up three prizes and then, you said, half the game byknocking one of them out. And from a design perspective, I and Ithink they are really hitting their mark if that is what they're trying to do, just shortening these games down. Well, I did. So they are didn'tsuccessful and I think ATP doesn't achieve that in a healthy way where,yeah, like you know the thing about multiprice Pokemon is you have the choice. You have the choice to play them down, you have the choice toplay them over a different kind of deck that offers less prizes, and that'sthat's been something inherent to any time we had multi prize pokemon. Is Youhave like the weaker pokmon that can trade favorably into larger prize opponents, andin this is that you don't have that trade with ATP in the in theformat. And if their net effect is to make it so you only playVmax as an ATP, then I guess then like they got their role,like that's what the Meta is. It's v Max has an ATP. Yeah, I don't know if that's like actually their goal, though, or ifthat was their intent with printing ATP. So let's let's actually get to thecrux of this then, JW. What do you think should happen ATP?Do you think it has a place in the format? Do you think itshould be banned? Do you think it's a bad card and but should stayanyway? Well, I think, yeah,...

...yeah, I think ultimately it shouldbe banned. I mean, I will take that stance. Like Ithink it should be banned. I think that if you look at the pastbands, particularly the the first bands that pokemon did, things like archaeops,things like wally and forced giant plants, those are kind of the three thatI look to in being similar to ATP in the sense that they really stiflecertain archetypes to the point and really all archetypes to the point that they hadto be like constructed in certain way. ATP certainly fits that mold. Onthe same excuse me, on the other side of the coin, I amhappy to play in I'm happy to play this game with ATP still in theformat. I don't think it. You know, there is about five decksthat will get to in a second that I think all kind of come tolike a tier one standing or can all compete with ATP reasonably fine, andI don't necessarily enjoy a metagame that's so wide open. I really do liketo focus on, you know, a handful of decks and really perfect thoselists. So yes, I do think ATP should go. However, ifthey don't choose to ban it, I'll be perfectly content, sure, andI would largely agree with you there. I think, I think the mostapt comparison and we talked about this actually this morning in our group chat.I think the most apt comparison is archeops. I think forest and wally little lessoak. That's more like item lock chirps, I'm sure from but definitelyarcheops is a very similar niche to ATP, where completely makes certain types of deckson viable and like, yeah, you can play around it in certainways, like, you know, vers archeops, you could promote Wab,but like in you know, that's not like a real argument and it's this. It's the same way. Like yeah, like occasionally, like they supper onwill beat an ATP deck, but that doesn't mean that like one prizex aren't completely choked out of the game. You know, sure. So Ithink archaeops is very apt comparison. And archaeops got banned in the end. Yes, it wasn't expanded, but I think the net effect is prettysimilar. I think that's a pretty good comparison. Actually, actually that wasn'twhat I really thought of until you brought it up. So now do Ithink pokemon will ban it? I'll re emphasize. I think the answer tothat question is still no. And maybe maybe enough people cause enough of thestink that that they do, but I think they're inclination is not to Ithink they generally want to avoid banning cards and standard and even an expanded theyare kind of not apt to really ban cards if they don't really have to. So right, my guess is ATP is here to stay. Do Ithink it's a battle card? Absolutely, and if you couldn't tell that fromthe arguments in the town over the last thirty minutes, then I apologize thatyou're just that dense. Oh, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, of course, but I think it is. You know, I think the arguments areall there and I think there's sound for why ATP is unhealthy in the metagame. Sure, sure, so, so it is. So, it is, so it is. And with that concluding there we have our first segmentsthat we've ever done. This is going to be are occurring thing here onthe tag team podcast where we take just a little moment of levity and introducesomething to to our listeners that maybe they'd never heard about or a card thatthey've never heard before. This is the card of the week here and Riley'sgot it this week. Yeah, I was actually I was bouncing between twocards to present this week, and so I'm going to go with the morefun one of the two, but I'll just save the other one for nexttime. So the card I want to talk about is an expanded card andit's something that's very near and dear to me, and if you paid attentionto past episodes in the podcast, you might be able to infer what itis. So Jwa all kind of describe it for you and you I'll letyou see if you can come up with it. So this card is apsychic type POKEMON. It has an ability that applies a status condition to youropponent. It was a key component to one of my earliest decks in mycareer. Oh hypno, yeah, I have no from brain. Yes,no, from breakpoint. I love that card man. That guy. Stillkeep my reverse Hallo oil ones and my binder all the time. They're stillgreat man. So, for the unaware, hit do from breakpoint was really thecornerstone of the dark right hit no deck, which was perceived to bethe best way to play dark right ex prior to its race in America,which, looking back, is so ridiculous that we anyone ever thought that.So contextualizing the whole story here. Dark Rif, from break point had anattack for one darkness and a double carlist...

...which existed at the time, wewould have thought that. It's called dark head, I think. And Yeah, eighty damage and if the POKEMON, the opponents pokemon, was asleep,it did eighty more damage. So you know, on hundred, one hundredand seventy with fighting, about one hundred and eighty with muscle band, whichpretty much was the math at the time. Believe it or not, one hundredand eighty used to be a good amount of damage to hit. Sohip no was the key to that, though. So hip no had anability on it called good night babies, which to this day I think isprobably the best ability name and Pokemon, and it put both active hookup lifeto sleep, which seems really, really bad. But then you play thestadium all night party, which is probably the best stadium name and Pokemon history, and it wakes up your active pokemon and heels thirty damage from it.So this deck was just completely ridiculous. It was, but it was somuch fun and you have no had this crazy art. It was like almostlike drawing Fran and yeah, yeah, but I can like that. Rightnow. That was so awesome and you know, it was drawn in thiswacky style. was so crazy looking. There's a bunch of other cards aroundthis time that were drawn in a similar style and they all kind of likeconnected to each other. If I just love that card. Man, it'slike that's just the fondest memories I have of Pokemon is just sitting in myDorm Room Sophomore Year of college, getting my first batch of pokemon cards inthe mail and playing dark I hypno on the floor of my dorm with myroommates hit against his like mega garradostack like endlessly. Yeah, and that wasjust so much fun. I remember I'd be sitting in the room and justplugging away and I get like a knock on my door and it was justlike a pretty girl coming to ask like if we want to hang out orsomething or like do homework together. I'm like God, now we're like we'replaying a dark hyndower here. Actually, that's so busted. Such fond memories, man, and like I really love Onen pokemon put the creative names andthings and literally every card shure that deck just have like a hilarious name attachedto yes, I'm sure, good night babies. So you could use yourall night party stadium and darkhead your opponents. So ridiculous, unbelievable. Yeah,and so it's crazy to think that that card. Yeah, like yousaid, because I remember that too. You know, I've been playing fora while at that point and just like I remember being skeptical of it buthaving friends that were extremely excited and about probably. Yep, it was whambled, absolutely, so I remember. You know. I know that. Howdo you know that? Because I've gotten I took the list from his chartisardlounge part I changed it a little bit. Oh my God, that was thefirst list I like ever or like took any for many is. Ohmy gosh, I wonder if we could find that. You Do? Igot home? All right, yeah, I'll look that up. I thinkif you searched all night party charts out a lounge, you'll find it.But it just a miraculous time. So I think if I had to distillthis card of the week into until like a phrase or a summary Sentence,I would say, you know, play Pokemon because you love it and youhave fun doing it. Find the find the elements of the game that toyou keep it fun and interesting and make it fun and like no matter whatsituation you're in, and for me at the time that was good night babies, Hypno with all night party and dark ry. That's amazing. I loveit. So looking ahead here into just the general metagame, we do wantto give our listeners kind of a brief breakdown of what we've been seeing inthe format as it as it stands right now. Riley, what are someof the highlights of this format in terms of the archetypes of decks that you'vebeen seeing performing well in the various amount of online tournaments? Sure so,I mean ATP consistently does well all that. It hasn't really consistently one, butyou know, it's probably the most represented deck in every event, soyou can't really write it out. One deck that I've seen consistently do very, very well is actually kind of surprised me, but not so much likethem more I think about it, but at the time it definitely did,was the mewtwo welder deck. Yeah, that has been a huge come up, as little had his subturnament that it was like four of the top eightor something absurd like that. Really just making itselfknown and as a fan ofmewtwo myself, that makes me happy. So yeah, I've excited to takethat for a swing. Some other decks that have consistently done well. Ithink the Lucario me metals Ash Sheen is a pretty viable archetype. It reallythrives in a known metagame where you can, you know, build your deck aroundit. So in the Players Cup...

...a good example of that. Youhad a very small player base and you so you could much easier predict thekinds of decks and builds you would see, and they took full advantage of that. Got First and second of the CARDIOM metal. And then, ofcourse you have mainstays like a turn of this that consistently do a lot ofdamage stay at the top. I mean you can never write off at deckthat does two hundred seventy damage on turned to. No, absolutely not.Yeah, that's a that's a good overview. We're talking about me too, weldera little bit, being kind of that surprise deck for me. We'rejust died for a format right when we had drag a poult be, youknow, among the best decks. Yeah, that was literally took you to fansliterally took me to out of the equation. Not so much for Imean the weakness obviously was very, you know, hard to play around forthe music player, but particularly when the mimic you is kind of shifting inand out between those lists. It made it really, really difficult because youknow they could put the damage counter on your Geraci if you happen to playit, and then all of a sudden you were just getting one shot overand over again, and so that made it really, really hard. Thethe welder mewt becoming more of a viable deck, I think really also stemsfrom a lack of ATP Z counter to that. So when ATPZ first wasan archetype, you had these things to counter, the tag team Pokemon,like vitality band and like, trying to punishment, and so those did theextra damage counter that you needed. That's option couldn't quite get to, youknow, maxing out at two hundred and sixty. With the ATPGXTECH in playright you max out of two hundred and sixty, not quite getting it thereagainst me two. So you would need to play, you know, somekind of damage modifier. And now we come into a format where you know, there aren't really two hundred and seventy HP POKEMON and all of a suddenmutes who can thrive now because you know one matchup that it has atpzation can'thit the numbers, and if ATP is the most played deck and you havea deck that you know get can withstand a couple of hits, then you'rein a good position. So I think that's also part of the reason thatmew two has done so well. It's just that the ATPC players really haven'trespected it. Yeah, I mean I think that's a huge part art,you know, calling even part of the reason almost seems to not do justice. I think you two's match up against ATP decks as they're built right nowhas served it incredibly well, being able to do that three hundred damage onturn to the mewtwo special and yeah, ATP doesn't have a response. Really, as long as you can avoid getting an immediate response knock out on likea two priser on your bench, then you're pretty much good. So Ithink that is the the main reason. Me Two, of course, consistentlybeing the deck that has the most tools available to it, the most attackingoptions, so obviously tends to do well in a wide open metagame, especiallyin these like early developing Meta Games, where it can play a lot ofattacks and kind of finagle its way through a lot of different matchups. Iwon't be surprised, and I mean if I was playing ATP I would dothis as well to especially in the current metagame where Sarachi's has to be moved, the stuff like scoopupnuts and switch, I think just including like a ziggagoonor vitality band or something like that. I mean sure, you know metwo's can play big charm. I mean you can play I mean you cango down the rabbit hole forever like beauties. are going to play big charms.Then you're going to play like tool scrappers or you're going to play mimicyou or whatever else like it's going to there's going to be some back andfourth elements to it, but I think ATP will have to think about moreactively what it can do against me two if it wants to be able tostand a chance in that matchup consistently. Sure, absolutely, absolutely. Anyother decks, you look too, Riley, as being near the top of themetagame, or at least contenders amongst the the for decks the talked aboutbeing welder me to ATPC eternity is some luke metal. I think one that'skind of like on the fringe is another welter deck in Santa Scorch. Idon't think it's as good as Mewtwo, but I think it has some reallyinteresting options. The volcanians really solid one prize attacker, especially against those likewacky kind of counter redecks like Volcanian runs train on deciduo IDEX, for example. Sure, and I think Santa Scorch, I've talked about it before, Ithink Santa Scorch is actually better than it was for rotation. You know, I kind of ragged on senscorch a little bit pre rotation, not asmuch as you but still a little bit. I think it is a little bitbetter now. If it gets like the turble involved going second that's reallygood, and if it can take a hit then it'll usually snowball the gamepretty hard. So you really have to find quick answers to Santa Scorch tobe able to consistently stand a chance in the matchup, as long as they'renot whiffing. Sure. So I mean...

I don't think it's like the thebest deck in the format. I don't know if it really stands up withthe rest of those decks, but I think it's pretty good. You know, I wouldn't hit on it. Okay, I am of an opposite opinion.I just think sent to Scorch is pretty stinky. Yeah, I mean, if I was going to play welter deck, that wasn't you two.I would rather play babys AF Falon, sure, which also lost a veryimportant tool, and fiery flint. But yeah, I mean it's not likeit doesn't completely wipe it out of the game. The hardest part with flonright now is getting those initial attacks off, and so what I've seen most listdo is sort of air towards like leading with a heat ran and victeeny and things like that, to get energy on the board and the discardpile and still do damage, because I feel like now it's actually way easierto get energy out of the discard than the deck with fiery flint. God. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you still have fire crystal and you stillhave retrieval. Yeah, so really, yeah, you're right. It's allabout just digging it out and getting it to the discard pile to be ableto use it. So it's kind of a shift there with baby blue stuffon, like you always in the past you did want it in the discardpile as well because fire crystal was just so strong. But you know,like you said, you had that fiery flant, you could draw it outof the deck. That was more about you could be more aggressive. Nowyou kind of have to take a more calculated approach. Yeah, and I'vebeen a big baby stuff on fan for the past little while. I've loveplaying the deck. It's very fun. It's a kind of relaxing, youknow. It just like yeah, toss these all the discard pile and Iguess your dad or whatever. Yeah, if I'm just logging out, aTCG out it, just want to play a couple games not think about itthrough hard. I always play Babys of one. Yep. Yeah, it'sjust it's one of the most satisfying ones, you know, because you get inthose situations where you're like yeah, in the game you got, youknow, nine energy in the discard pile, I got three fiery flints and you'reyou know, got one prize left to take it. You just goyeah, you got crystals, you got three crystals. You like crystal,crystal, crystal, you know, get those nine energy. Just blow themup and that's just it's so fun to do extra, extra energy the outof the game. I love especially on like a little peon pokemon. Youknow, you got like a little SCRALP or, you know, this alisten pot or something. I don't know where SCRULP came to my as aregonna legal. Well, that's just my favorite. That's my favorite pokemon name. SCRULP is a good name. Her comedy. Yeah, a friend thatI think you've probably planted this in my mind, but a friend of minewas asking what they should name like a kitten they're going to get, andwhat came to mind for me, and still he was screlp. I thinkscrub actually be like a cool name for a little kitten. SCRALP. Humph, yeah, interesting. Well, like we're going on mind for my nextmy next cat. Yeah, your next cat that's definitely becoming a Squirrel,oh for sure. are like that'll be like its official name and then likeAnn will have to rename it, like give it a nickname or something.Yeah, so I'll pose that to you, though. What other kind of nichedecks do you have your eye on? Yeah, I mean I've always lovedand telling on, and that seems if you have watched any content creatorover the last week, it's kind of actually turned into a little bit ofa joke where everyone is playing and telly on and, you know, towardgoes into top four of the Players Cup playing and telly on. It's justbeen kind of a meme that's been kind of poked fun add just because itseems like everyone is oh my gosh, now with rotation, you know,and tell hand can be played. But you know, I was I wasalways a proponent of Tellian. The the the real ones out there know thatI've always loved in telling on. And Yeah, now that we don't havepe ground, now that we don't really have a viable lightning attack, orthat was what I consider to be the biggest thing holding it back. Youknow, you're definitely going to struggle with a few of the decks out there. It turn it just comes to mind as being just a very difficult matchupthem being able to outpace you in terms of damage for, you know,a relatively cheap cost and then being able to accelerate to themselves is really tough. So but aside from that, I mean you have decent match ups.You know, you can beat ATP. I think that's one of the bettermatchups for the deck. So you know, you look into an Atpez heavy metagameand certainly a deck I can telling on can thrive. Beautiful. Imean, who doesn't want to throw it out an tell you on? Iknow I do. That's what I'm saying, Bro. That's and you got allthis fire stuff, like people are clinging to their scent, to scorches, like praying that they wake up and one day sent the scorches. Agood deck and you just need to eat those people insane. Eat those people. Any other decks on the on the fringe that are coming out to you? I just I don't know. I've been having a lot of fun doingthe speed run challenge. If you guys haven't seen it, on my youtubeI've been uploading the vodds of some of the most hilarious parts of them,but I really actually enjoyed playing butterfree.

It was that was that was afun one too. For some reason, like the the status conditions really trickme. They really trick me. I always try to make, you know, confusion work or like poisons the worst, trying to make that work, andit usually doesn't, because you think about the you think about confusion likeI think in my mind when I confuse the opponent, I'm like, Oh, yeah, they definitely cannot attack next turn. But in reality it's likethey have a fifty shot of, you know, being able to attack orthey could find a switch or they could have birdkeeper or so one of them. What's that? That's more than it. Yeah, yeah, so, well, yeah, more than fifty for them to actually in the tack off. But in my brain it's like im I got him, now, Igot him, they're done. That's so funny. Yes, I can.I can relate to that, though. So it's like they would the betterfor they would never attack this confusion here. Yeah, and then they do andthey knock you out and you're like well, well, Dan, theywere just stupid. You know, it wasn't that my deck was bad,it was like they may really suboptimal for them do that. Kind of believethe attactor confusion. They always and that's that's when you go to your friendsbetween rounds of regional they always have it. Man, he flipped heads. Donethat could connect one tail one. Why can't I get one tail switchevery tier? I stare to the two tet the switch. So butterfree.Yeah, I know that Israel Sosa did perform well in some online tournament.I'm blanking on the name, but you know, maybe making butterfree somewhat viablewith his list is particular list. So that is to note that it hasperformed well one time, but every one online turner say what Butterfreez will risingstar? For sure it is. Yes, but yes, I am always seducedby the status conditions. It's better for your favorite deck that came outof the speed run, yeah, I would say so, or the mewdeck. I mean it's always fun when you are one shouting things with poorgun, because when it all works, it's so beautiful, you know,when you can get all the energy on, because then it like your opponent hasto make this choice where do they attack into like a support Pokemon,or do they attack into your attacker? And then you know, sometimes theymaybe make the wrong choice and then you just body them and you can oneshot. That's a lot of fun as well. I love the poor gunbased decks and playing poor gun with mew. Although it is worse than Whimsicott,it's still, you know, it's still a really fun deck. Yeah, I will say I do like Pryon decks, but I'm getting a littlebit disillusion by them, just because I feel like there's so many variations thatI've seen of pouring out and they all basically are the same. In thelast sure, it last like week and a half, two weeks. It'slike, you know, maybe this is because I watch Andrew Stream too much, play a loves for God, but you know, there's the miraclous,there's the Lizzie, which is now rotated, there's view, there's elements. It'slike, you know, you're just playing port got or cycle energy use. Sure, gretting a little disillusioned to poor God, for sure, butI do I do love the poor God decks. Counting money, says flappwill, Sable Ie. He definitely bodied me with his version of that deck, which was very, very fun, using flapp will, the spread damagecounters and stable ie to you know, accelerate with turbo patch and just goin for one shots. That was a very cool deck. Oh yeah,it I mean it's been A. It's been a fun time exploring and thisnew format and I hope that I'll maintain this kind of joy that that Icurrently feel playing the game, because I do feel like the game has beenfun for me and I don't know, I think a lot of people havebeen really kind of negative towards the format, particularly in regards to ATP, butI don't quite feel that way. I still feel like there are thingsthat we can explore, things we can do, archetypes to create and countersto find, so I do think that format is more fun than the prerotation. Yeah, I will stand by that. I do have one otherquestion about the speed run before we completely move away. Do you think Pedrois gonna Steal Away your world record for darkness ablaze? Bro Oh, Idon't know, man, I don't know if he is. I was watchingtoday. Well, okay, so the thing, the thing that separated mefrom Pedro was that he started over like two or three times. Oh,you can't remember. He's going for it. I know he like he's try hardingit, really like he's try harding and I get I that's respect,man, respect, but he did restart a couple of times. That's allI'm saying, I mean that's the are not running right. Like, no, I know you. I guess you can do that. I just I'mjust saying I got mine on the first try and I thought it was prettygood record, I thought. I thought...

...four and a half hours looks likepretty good. He's probably going to beat I think he has me buy aboutten minutes right now. Yeah, well, I was watching, how's watching oneof your games. I've watched all the other Youtube uploads so far andsome I sometimes I think your game actions themselves were optimized. That's a that'sthe key of the speed run. Oh, yeah, for sure. No,no, absolutely, there's some of the things that I was doing werelike not the best, but at the same time, you know, it'syou just got to go fast and sometimes you just don't think about it.Yeah, so I just remember I was watching like man, your split,just attack, man. Oh Yeah, you know, for Sel like debatingabout wishing to attacking, like who cares, it's attack. There's definitely some dramathere. That's a so, so let's open up. I think wehave if hit the time. So yeah, that people watching live. Feel freeto post questions if you got them. Will take three to four questions forwrap up to day. We really appreciate all your viewership as we headinto the third season of tag team. Couldn't have made it this far withoutall of your support. Really can't express our appreciation enough. If you're listeningon a podcasting platform, be sure to leave a review. It makes iteasier to discover boost this up in the hidden ranking systems that they have thereas you interact more with our material. The Algorithm, the algorithm, asit were. The Algorithm, that's where we're going to be controlled by man. People are like, Oh, you know, computers are going to controlas well. To an extent, I think it's going to be more thealgorithm is going to decide who should be controlled and who should be let free. So just make sure you're in good standing with the algorithm. You cando that by leaving a review for us. Yeah, yeah, make sure thatwe don't get controlled by the computer overlords by leaving a review. Soyeah, that's that's for sure. Exactly how early? I had one questionthat got posed in my discord and I'll read it here quickly. Sorry Ihad to I had another screen open. But talking about just current, currentdecks, is there anything that you haven't tried yet that you want to trythat you think maybe could be, you know it's here two or tier threedeck or something that you just think could have some place in the metagame,but maybe that you haven't tried yet or that you haven't seen anyone else try? There's like two things I'm thinking of. I want to try every single vMax because I think they're all similar enough where they have like a potentialamongst each other. Yeah, so I kind of want to mess with allof them and I haven't messed up very many yet, really only played withthe mainstays, but I want to get down in the weeds of like theStone Jarners and they laugh force has and the and the butter freeze and allthose guys. Yeah, the other answer to this question is I want totry some Post Rowe Peeka rob and I I know electric power is a shame, that a rounds a shame, but you know, maybe there's like someworld where Accelrat a much energy and like wrapping up with a bolt on islike a viable strategy. I don't know. What do you think makes it?What do you think makes a good like I just worry that it strugglesto get you know, I I don't think I've just mats ionea says.Mahone was playing post rotation peak around today. Kind of bad. I'm just picturinglike you accelerate with a full blitz and then you, yeah, thenyou attack like to Boltons or something. Okay, yeah, so then theprize trades are more your favors. Yeah, sure, yeah, I mean Ithink just not being able to reach up to those high numbers. It'sjust gonna yeah, actually, it's probably it's fine, not great, butyou asked what I wanted to try. That's something I want to try.Fair enough, fair enough, Mass Dave says. I feel like one vmaxbeing slept on now. That could be a that we have a slight moreacceleration options for. It. COULD BE VAL Malamar v Max. Haven't seena single person try it. Don't worry, when I when I eventually test everyv Max to it's optimal potential, Malamar will no doubt be a partof that list. I Think v Max's are kind of cool in the sensethat they are I mean we're at the earliest block of them, so likethey're a little bit more vanilla and I think, you know, the morethat we see, I think the you know, they're obviously just getting moretext added to them, you know, the farther in that we go.And so, yeah, it kind of feels cool to play v Max isin the sense that you could almost choose...

...any v Max and just kind oflike make a deck around it, and they all kind of look similar,you know what I mean, like it's like we were talking about this earlierin our chat, whereas like do you want Red v Max or do youwant it's a little little v Max? I I will go phone record andsaying that I think all the v Max's are basically the same pokemon card,but in the colors and it. I think the v Max themselves are likeoccupy similar ish levels of power, but it's it's the support around, though, that like yeah, thanks, I'm good. Yeah, I'll stand bythat. I think that's true. Fairness it as an Anti v Max kindof Guy, but who still wants to try them all because they're kind ofyou want to try them all, but you hate them. Yeah, Ido like this love hate relationship. I don't like v Max's. Is likecard design and cards in general, but I mean, Hey, I wantto try every every single color. Sure, sure, sure. You know.Leon asked when you think live events are going to start up again.Play? Not for another year? Man. Yeah, I know they're try Iknow they're trying it in other card games. If I if I rememberrights, like magic is. I don't want to Miss Speak, but Ithought I heard somewhere that magic is starting an online or in person type event. Yeah, I just don't see anything like sustainably happening until there's a vaccine, which I don't see that happening until at least late two thousand and twentyone. Yep, Yep. So, I mean I think there are somelocal card stores, but I think even those won't probably be the norm atleast until certainly until next year and probably not even till like midway through nextyear. I would also just advise against it, like even you're taking thebest precautions for yourself, like you can't guarantee that from every single person that'sgoing to those kind of things. Yeah, sure, sure, but at thesame time, I mean if you're unconcerned with that and you're in agroup of people that is also unconcerned, I mean there are something I wouldcounterpoint that and say, like it doesn't matter, really matter if you're concernedbecause, like your web extends to other people who might be concerned. Yeah, yeah, I mean, yes, okay, be responsible, is allwe're trying to say. But at the same time, I think for mentalhealth, for some people, it might be worth the risk. At themental health argument. To me, I think I think you should do youknow, should do it's right for you, but I would restrict your gatherings tolike very small, like intimate circles, yeah, with people who you knowhave been similarly responsible to yourself. Sure that that's that's probably a goodway to pay, you know, when you when you're in thrust in yourcard game environment, like you don't actually know like who could be there oryou know what they did in the hour before showing up even sure, soI would generally advise, like against putting yourselves in those scenarios. But youknow, if you want to play with like you're very close group of friendswho have all been responsible, and social distance and you know, play cardsfor a couple hours, like, you know, I can't fault you forthat. You know, I understand, like it's hard not to well andand one of the hardest things to just being social is that when you getwith somebody that you haven't seen in a while, or even somebody that youhave seen a while that you just enjoy being around and like you you knowin your mind that, Oh, you know, I should stay, youknow, x number of feet away from them and I should wear my maskand I should do all the take all these precautions, like a lot oftimes you just let your guard down around those types of people, you know, and so that's one of the things that that it's just an unintended consequence, I guess, of like getting with other people as like you're just goingto kind of be a little bit more relaxed around the people that you know. So as much as we could say you know, you know that thatyou could maybe go to an event or go to a shop if it wassocially distanced and, you know, if all these precautions were taken. Ithink a lot of times and I find myself slipping into these maybe bad habits. But just like when you get with somebody that you're very comfortable with,you can often, you know, let that comfortability, you know, openup into into the guidelines that you've set for yourself in terms of anti covidmeasures. Yeah, I mean I would say, if you're walking away withthis from today's episode, of anything, I'd say, you know, continueto stay safe and healthy and and also express that empathy for for other people, because your actions don't just affect yourself in the context of the situation thatwe're dealing with. Sure any last words? Aw before we take it away.It's been a great week, guys. Thank you so much again for listeningto this episode. I've had a lot of fun, so preciate allyou guys listening to ship. We'll say one more time and good night,my babies.

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