Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 27 · 1 year ago

2-27. Adios Orangutan


The boys are ready to see off the UPR-LOT era of cards. Make way for Sword and Shield! Come check out a recap of the Pokemon Online Global event and a preview of things to come.

How's it going, everybody? Welcomeback to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. Myname is Riley Hulbert and I'm joined by my good friend, as always,JW Curry. All, JW, you. How's it going today? It's goingreally well, Riley. I burned like all my skin off today,all of it. I still basically okay. Yeah, you do well. Iwas working out in the blazing sun, in the heat of a Columbus August, and it's going up this August, the notorious Columbus Ohio August, goingdoor to door, doing the the sense of stuff, which I'm havinga good time doing, but it just gets absolutely disgustingly hot and they dohave like an evening hour, but during that time I'm usually, you know, with Anne or doing something, you know, pokemon related, and soI wish I could go out more in the evenings, but you know,I'm stuck doing it during the day, so I just get absolutely burnt toa crisp. My neck is destroyed. I don't think I'll have a neckafter this is done. Yeah, so it's been it's been fun. Howabout you, Riley? You know I've been doing well, I've been doingwell. It's very busy time for me. I'm in the midst of really reallyin depth project and really in the weeds right now, but it's beenfun and engaging. Yeah, speaking of the heat, I I don't knowif you have the right to complain about the Columbus August. I had aright my my best friend in college. He moved to Arizona for Grad Schooland his car is straight up overheated. It died. Is Total. That'sa wild yeah, so you divide a car, get regt. I knowdoesn't even insurance for it, as insurance cover heat. I don't know ifinsurance coverage or not. I mean he's high. It was like an old, oldish car, but it still it is overheard and was dead. Well, one time, one time that actually happened to me going to a pokemontournament. I've ever told you this story? I don't think so. Okay,so we're going to a pokemon tournament in Canada and I grew up inMichigan and new you know a couple guys from Michigan. So we're going tostart and drive through my hometown of Port Huron to go into Canada to goto Toronto for regionals and we're on the bridge and the car that were injust starts to like, you know, really starts working. You know,we're like okay, it's a little interesting, and we're sitting on the bridge becauseyou have to of course, go through customs and you know, theyask you a few questions make sure you're, you know, not a terrorist oranything like that or carrying anything illegal into the country, and we are, you know, he's he's or pause, we're breaking on the on the bridgeand then we start to get going again and it's just working really hard. The car just can't quite keep up and then it just dies right therein the middle of the bridge. Oh No, so we had to likepush it to the customs area and it turns out like one of the fanswas dead, so the the engine was overheating, so it was like onlyhalf capacity of a fan right, so it's only getting half the amount ofair that it needed to function and it was abysmal. We actually had hisdad who lived in, you know, the the town that we crossed overinto Canada. He came with like the backup car and then drove the othercar back home and like he was so furious. So we took the backupcar we had up getting their fine, but it was like another like twohours of just like sitting and waiting, you know, for for our backupcar to come and it was really funny. I want one of you on thatone. Do you know the Memphis story yet with your big car?Yeah, yeah, I mean kind of on the way home. Yeah,so I'll tell it for the listeners. So this is Memphis. What isthat? Two Thousand and eighteen? It was two thousand and eighteen. Yeah, because I'm still living in Columbus and everyone background, I was already rustratedlike heading to this tournament, because I got canceled on by like three differentpeople. So I just like relatively extensive airbnb that was split between two people. Thankfully, my second patron, Adler Pierce, was like very good aboutit. He's like very willing to accommodate like the increase in price and actuallyit was like Super Nice and we had great conditions for two people. Yeah, so I guess it was fine. And then in retrospect I realized howmuch I value like comfort when I'm traveling and I'm willing to pay more tobe comfortable. But anyway, so we... down with my old large cars, the Yukon Xcel from two thousand and five, magnificent beast of a carreally. It was a behemoth. It was large as in charge. Noone would mess with it, but it was old and I had just takenit to the mechanic the day before we went to Memphis. You know,they pick some things up. It was making some noise and always went away, and so it's feeling pretty good. And Memphis is a it was justlike a sizeable drive from Shirt Columbus. It was like nine to ten hours. So you know, we'RE DOWN TO MEMPHIS. Tournament goes horrible for me. It goes fine for Adler. He gets like top thirty two or topsixty four or something. Sure, we played the same sixty, but Ihad a much less sustainable day than he did. So all in good though. Yeah, and we start heading back home after after he finishes and getshis like packs or whatever, and the car is like making some noise,but it's like, you know, this car makes noise. It's old.I'm used to it at this point. Yeah, so I kept on drivingand we make it to contuct we make it midway through Kentucky and the caris just really like hanging on for dear life and I can tell that somethingisn't quite right, but I think I was still under the impression that wecan make it, because we are still we certainly left two hours away,because we have right, you're kind of like a half hour left of Kentuckyand then like the hour and a half from Cincinnati to Columbus. Yeah,maybe two and a half hours. I guess it would be a little bitlonger. Yeah, but you know, we're getting like right. We're rightby the bridge between Cincinnati and Kentucky that connects the states, and I realizethe car is getting incredibly difficult to drive. Yes, and so it's a it'slike steering. It is very challenging because at what I realize in retrospectwas the power steering was no longer working. So if you're not a car person, like cars have like mechanisms that make it easier to steer because youdon't realize you don't realize it when you're steering car, but you're steering upreally large, heavy object and so there's a system mechanisms there. Where thatmechanism doesn't work, you really lies that your steering a very large, heavyobject with all of your physical might. So I realize that this is wrongand I use all of my physical might to turn the car off of theroad into the into the nearest exit. The car just comes to a slidingstop and that is the end of the car and we're just we're about fifteenminutes from the bridge to Cincinnati and then another fifteen minutes from my childhood homeand then from there an hour and a half from sure lumbus where we live. Yep, and Adler has like a final the next day or something,and so I'm like really worried not getting him home. Yeah, right,right, because it's your because the blood is on your hands. Sent.Yeah, I's your car and yeah, your responsibility. He had basically justlike passed out in the backseat, just like laying across all the seats andjust chilled for a while. I'm like on the curb like crying, likecalling AAA, like I just want to go home at this point, likeI'm just miserable. The whole tournament was fat. I just want to gohome. Yeah, about three hours later, and midway through this whole experience,some very under the influenced. Man Drives by on a motorcycle and hit, the mirror falls off his motorcycle and he just drives away. He likegot off the motorcycle, checked in with us for like we're fine, andthen he drives away. It is mirror fell off and he didn't come backtogether. That's is incredibly unsafe. It was so funny, though, soI took the mirror and just put it in the center console the car,which I think it's bill is in there. Yeah, but yeah, I'm justmiserable. The AA guy eventually comes and he starts talking to us aboutlike his his experience with women. Yeah, which really I didn't want to talkabout that at three am, but you know, so it goes.We get back to my parents house, I take one of their other carsback to Columbus and I think they actually got it fixed up. What ithappened was the like the hose for the coolant had like become detached. Yeah, so the engine had overheated, which also deactivated the power steering. Yep, so unlucky. That sure absurd it was. It was just ridiculous.That whole Memphis experience was just truly awful from start to finish. Hate tosee it for sure, but it was it's a fond memory. You know. It's one of those things where it's really bad in the moment but youcan respect, like and laugh at it looking back. Yeah, because Iknow everyone has that moment, yeah,...

I feel like, where it's likenothing could have gone any better, or like nothing could have gone any worse, I guess, and so you just have to just smile and brushed off. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, but you know, we keep ontrucking. You yourself at his tournament this weekend and it wasn't nearly as unsuccessfulas my memphis run. Yeah, yeah, I was. I was pretty happywith the result. So I was playing in the atlas collectibles pokemon onlinegaming championships this last weekend on online global. That's right. I keep saying gaming. It's global. Okay, Gamer, but that's true. That's true.I had a really overall good, you know, positive time. Iwill, you know, get into some of the criticisms. I you know, nothing. Nothing. I'm not bashing the tournament. I want to justbe up front and say that I'm very thankful that there are people in ourcommunity that devote the time that they do to helping us have an online experience, because I know it can be very challenging and I know it can bevery unrewarding and I know that people can be very, you know, unforgivingwith some of the language that they use around these tournaments and they can bevery harsh in their criticisms and I hope that that is not what I ampresenting. I hope what I'm presenting is just a very like, you know, unbiased evaluation of my experience in the tournament. So it was very fun. I you know, we'll will start just doing a very brief I don'twant to spend too much time on this, but just like a very brief forthose of you that, you know, don't follow me on Youtube, whereI posted a video about this. But what I played? So Iwent in with a vehicle deck and my thought there was just too in this, especially in this blind metagame. I wanted to have like as much controlover games as I possibly could, where I would try to take control ofthe game and try to just maximize the opportunities to outplay my opponent, becausewe're looking at a format right now that is particularly fast. It's maybe fasterthan any of the other formats that I maybe have ever played when you're talkingabout cards like ATP that can, you know, reduce the amount of attacksthat you have to use, or you look at, you know, twoand three prize pokemon being just the norm. And so the game is extremely fastright now. And so, and just trying to for the listeners whomight not be a familiar with the park championship, can you remind us ofthe format? Ohh Yes, it was. It was standard format, but prerotation. So also prison too, darkness a blaze exactly. So yeah, I wanted a deck that really kind of slowed the format down in asense and slowed the games down, and I found that with Vika volt andI had been testing that the whole week prior on my own and on twitch, and I was just finding like, of all the decks that I tried, it just seemed to maybe fit my fit my style, like it seemedto work well with me and it had the best winning percentage. So Iwas like, okay, I tell this to all the people that I coachas well, like trust your results, and I felt like this was areally important tournament for me to do just that. You know, I hadthe best winning percentage with the vehicle on the ladder and just with my owntesting, and so I trusted my results from the testing and went into thetournament, you know, feeling very good about it. And so day onewas pretty solid. I, you know, went seven and two to make onto day two. And then in day two I maybe didn't do quiteas well but, like all the games were extremely close and I faced thebiggest like regret, I guess, was facing a couple vehicle mirrors that hadsome text for the mirror that I didn't have. So I took two lossesto the same exact list where they had just more healing options and more gustingoptions and it made it really difficult. But still, you know, kindof came down to that last turn in both of those matches. But Daytwo went five and four. So overall again I felt really good about thedeck. Placed sixty seven overall and, you know, felt like I Iachieved something and had a good time. Awesome. Yeah, people definitely asolid choice. I think, was it one vehicle in the top eight?There was one that made I think third. Yeah, so there's a vehicle upthere on the top eight and then there was also the eventual winner ofthe tournament. That peak around deck played it to vehicle blet, really leaninginto that option for the lightning type archetype. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Ithink, you know, maybe in retrospect, like some type of peakram based vehicle volt build or the cool...

...based peak around build would have been, you know, obviously the play. I mean it performed, you know, not only one, but it had something like nine spots in the toptwenty four, something ridiculous like that. So just really was a dominating forcein the pog championships. Yeah, so let's dive in then, into whatwe saw as we got further up in the ranks in the top sixteen,top eight and eventual finals of this tournament. So, like you said, thepeak a Ram archetype really continued to see success. I don't think thatis overtly a surprise to anyone. Right. P Gram has continued to be apowerful deck. It really didn't lose anything going into this format, besidesmaybe having another v Max deck that can keep up with it. But really, when we look at with the Cross Section of the Metagame like pee,gram was actually in a pretty good spot, especially in that day to Meta whereif we consider these, we consider like a turn of this a badmatchup, if it even is. Sure, you know, the majority of themmet US seemed very skewed to me, and day two, especially as yougot towards the end of the day, towards ATP decks, seemed like thatwas just overall, the favorite choice of the day to Metagame, andPeter Really is continued to do fine in that matchup. Certainly hasn't lost anythingin the matchup and come out of the gates swinging, as well as justhaving a generally good matchup spread. So I mean, what can we addthat hasn't already been said by ourselves about how about your right? Yeah,he drops anything. It just gained a new tool, which, yeah,I feel like. I feel like we say that every set. Like fikeron, you know, is already good. It got a new tool to addto its arsenal and it'll continue to be good. Right. So,right now we got said that, you know. I remember with Bolt on, you know, and then and then people started, including you know,to bolt on their peak around me. Another back we had the cocard whenit so sure the cocoa bea and then that replaced by bolt on and nowwe have the co Val. There's this always, I guess, like well, addition. Yeah, yeah, right, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, it's a very strong that. I mean, we don't need togo over it again, but just yeah, you saw the strength in it andand obviously vehicle being that trainer lock option that that no other deck besidesjust a stray vehicle has. I mean it was very powerful and kind ofgetting setting up because we talked about peak. I'm like, it's one kind ofweakness that's kind of hidden with the electric powers is the damage output.Like it kind of struggles in a sense to get those big numbers. Butthen you have something like a vehicle that can just come in and do alittle chip damage item, lock the opponent and kind of swing the tempo ofthe game for you. So really cool, you know, inclusion for a lotof peak rom decks that performed really well this yeah, so, andjust like the Kurram, I don't think we need to talk anymore about ATP. We've seen ATP to continue success. The deck really hasn't changed much atall, besides maybe having a slightly larger emphasis on the turn one. Yeah, at this point in the Meta because it's so fast. So I thinkthe archetypes that I'm most interested in talking about personally, I do want tocall out. I don't I don't have a lot to say about this deck, but I do what I call it extra drill. Ended up getting topsixteen, which was super cool. I think extra was the first deck toqualify through the first day as well. Went like hundred absurd. How manypeople rounds did it face to get there? Right, right, but that's supersick. The two decks that I'm most interested in talking about, though, are you two coming back from the dead. God, not even reallyfrom the dead, but, you know, rising to prominence once again, gettingfourth place and bubbling out of top eight. And then I also wouldlike to talk about the sanders mill archetype. Yeah, I also want to rubin your face that I thought mill would be a good option, andI said it last week and you kind of Jop me down on that.Well, yeah, I mean to be fair, I although I will pushback and say, did you think that mill, in the form of Sandersdecklist, would be what would have been played? Because I would say I'dactually not that far off. No, really, okay, because I wouldsay that Sanders List is just absurdly complicated and not kind of not the notthe mill that we've come to know and love in the form of like MAGcargo and our rang guru. It's just very different. It's very fresh.Yeah, I think the main things that I wasn't really privy to was theDell caddy. I want to say it's like the main thing that I wasn'treally on to sure, and that was I mean that was huge and thatwas instrumental. He also had the Mr...

Mind that I was never even considering. But I don't know, I never saw that from I do anything onstream, so I can attest like what. Yeah, I don't know. Imean I think it was just for like ATP right, because then ifthey gx attack and they don't have like a secondary attacker, then you justblock them out of the game essentially. So but yeah, I mean scoopup Nett obviously opens up a lot of new possibilities that I don't think we'rereally that explored by many male players. and to see Sander once again,you know, play this just absurdly intricate mill deck that that really capitalizes ona lot of these new these new tools that it has. It is reallyimpressive and I just give a lot of a lot of compliments to him andI wish that he would have been able to win that first game and,you know, take on the crown, because I think we see something likethis. This is like the perfect example. It's a perfect example of a greatplayer taking a deck that they know inside and out to a high finishand not that you know, that's that's no hate on his opponent in finals, but just that you know, Sander knows these style decks, has puta lot of time into that and it just is paying off. You know, it is certainly paid off in this tournament. Yeah, and I meanthis is a classic example of like the fatal flaw of mill decks in largeevents is the time limit really plays against them. Not because they can't,not because they can't mill in time or finish in time, but there ifthey happen to drop a game, they are the ones who suffer as aresult. Yeah, there's just not a lot they can do when they're putin the situation where it's a game three and time is low because their upponit has to be ahead on prizes. You know, they don't have toreach a reach, reach a wind condition. So we hit this game pit scenario, for those of you who are watching, where Sandra had realistically removedall of Isaiah's options to win and he had like everything that he needed lockedup. The board was set up for him, but it didn't matter.Like Isaia had already taken I think one or two prizes, the articuno optionfor him to like knock things out with. It wasn't really available to him.So, I mean sander is kind of lost, and you know,that's just the unfortunate reality of these mill style dex and yeah, and anddefinitely is like the the gate keep on the deck, you know. Imean there's there's a high skill cap. If you look at his list,it has somewhere in the realm of like twenty one of so already with thedeck list. You know, you give this to a new player and they'rejust going to be scratching their head at like what the optimal routing is.But then, yeah, also having to manage time. It makes it foryou know, it just it's going to be a long term if you decideto play a deck like this. And yeah, again to see someone performas well as he has over the course of a whole season with these cardsis really exciting. I am curious to to know like what a mill playerwho, at least you know for this season and other seasons in the past, has made kind of a reputation on mill and stall, what they decideto do and in the post rotation format. That'll that'll be really interesting. Yeah, I mean Sanders Really Gone Multiple Seasons now leaning into these stall archetypesand I think the it's lost a lot of tools. If stall exists headingforward, I don't know what it looks like. Yeah, and that's comingfrom someone who maybe not as to the level of Sander, but definitely Iam a connoisseur of the arts and and I have no idea the dark words. I had no idea what it looks like going forward. Yeah, say, but Sander is truly serious master with these decks. So much props tohim. He he deserves every one of the finishes that he's gotten and probablymore. You know, he's really carved that niche for himself really well,and I say that is his concept was close to one I was working with, but he really pushed it over the edge. With the inclusion of delcaddy. He always manages to find those little extra tools. He builds his deckin a very unique way. So I cannot give enough praise to sander andand pray so Isaiah's well. He's had a very successful season. Wrapping itup with a dove for Peter Ram is very impressive. So it was reallya star studded finals there was really cool to see. Absolutely. I dowant to talk loop back to you too, though. So I musing was somethingthat we didn't put really a lot of stock into, both of us. You know, I don't really get to hold this one over your head, unfortunately, and it, yeah, right, a fair amount of success. So yeah, and to be honest, I look at the lesson it's stilla little hard for me to like parse out exactly what made it sogood. I think it came down to... a good ATP match up morethan anything. It is my impression. Sure, I don't know if that'sthe same impression you got. Yeah, I mean, well, you're lookingat you're looking at ATP decks not have a way to hit seventy up andand so you know you're at they're maxing out at two hundred and sixty,because, yeah, exactly. And so you know, me two is kindof just just blowing through your initial set up in the ATP and then noteven getting response Koed in return. So, yeah, I mean me too.That would be the primary reason. I still don't know that I wouldhave ever thought of like mewtwo and Meu being a good play for this tournament. But yeah, I mean when you look at how much ATP was played, which is like double in day to the next highest played deck, youknow, you could certainly see how a player that did play me too,you know, if they hit a lot of ATP, would be pretty successful. I think. I think media is probably also finding its people. RomI at least can hold its own. Sure, you know, I thinkit's struggles more so against the v Max decks, where the three hundred isno longer enough. Yeah, especially, I mean jagged ball wasn't really afactor, but dragged bull basically killed me too off for you know, aquarter. Yes, definitely, and so dragon pulls decline was also to Newt'sbenefit. I don't see how the deck likes this to ainte itself against thingslike a turn. It is, but it turned to this really wasn't thatfavorite of a deck, it seemed like in the day to metagame. Imean it was certainly played, but the metagame is really dominating. Yeah,yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean there are, there werea lot of other you know, a lot of other decks up there atthe top, you know, sent to scorch. Yeah, let's just takea second to mention sent to scorch being an absolute flop. Yeah, Igot dirty, which, yeah, I mean, and for the amount ofplayers that played it. Like you look at Peka Ram having less than theamount of players that sent scorch had in both day one a day two andjust absolutely going ham in the finishes, where sent to scorch having, youknow, somewhere around double the amount of players that peak ram had, justhad very abysmal finishes across the board. And you know, I think Iwould attribute that a lot to just the consistency, the rock consistency, ofother decks, whereas I've found sent to scorches really live or die even moreso than a deck like mewtwo. Sent to scorches really live or die bythe welder, and the problem there is that you need welder like you needa lot of cards a very specific times, whereas a deck like met doesn't necessarilyneed that, you know, because your attacker and the mew too deckis a basic as opposed to sent to Scorch, where like you give them, you give the opponent that one turn to like really mess with your boardposition by gusting up the bench sent to scorch or something like that. Youknow, there are just other welder decks, primarily mew too, that perform betterbecause of not needing as many cards in certain orders. Right. Why? Yesterday we didn't like and so you can go ahead finish. You thought, no, no, go ahead. No, no, it's I wasgoing to say, beyond that. At you two can get a huge Koon an ATP or any number of things onto into almost always where you sentto scorch. It's not even guaranteed. Even if you get a Volcanian off, you know that you'll do enough damage to Ko something that's huge still,like, yeah, you know what is the what's the end game here?What are you working door? I stand by yeah, I stand by her, and I said last week where it's when you win was sent to Scorch, you blow them out of the water completely because you have like an invincible, infinite damage attacker. I think that's the reason that people got so attachedto the deck. I really do. Yeah, and definitely, like lastweek, I was really just confused, like I was hearing a lot ofrumblings about, oh, sent to scorch could be good. You know,center scorch is good. Since scorch it's good, and and I just myred flags were up. You know, I wasn't I wasn't ready to callit. I wasn't ready to call it horrible, because there are some thingsthat, you know, make it, at least on paper, seem,you know, like a decent, you know, workable deck, but thenin practice, I mean it very clearly showed that it was head and shoulders, I think, below a lot of other day. I mean there's,I mean probably five decks that I would rather have played over sent to scorch. You know, you look at Atpe, look at Peak Ram, you know, Blow Cephalon had showings a turn it, as I would, Iwould absolutely, a hundred percent take a turn to this over sent to scorching. And actually the vehicle deck that I played in a lot of others played, you know, had a good sense to scorch matchup. So it's ata certain point you're looking at sent to scorch and like wondering what makes itany good against the field. Yeah,...

I mean what I think of decks. I'd rather play than sent to scorch. I think speaker on bill, vehiclevolt mew two it turn it is plus CEPHALID. Yeah, eight,missing anything there. I think that's about every man party. Maybe I wouldrather play that party because it's probably be a more entertaining experience, honestly.You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was one of the surprisefinishers. We see Sufan getting twenty nine with a mad party list that, I believe, you know, less than less than five people had inday to horror ad part. But yeah, going with a Combo list. Iwas just about to bring that up. So Stefan's list included the GERACI PRISM, Mr Mime from detective Pikachu and couple copies of primate wisdom are rangguru to just get that Geraci into the prizes. Rowt off of an attackand yeah, it really worked well for him. Ended up getting a topthirty two finish and a very unique list using thunder man out mysterious treasure usingthunder mountain was the big card. Yeah, that was really interesting. I lookedat the list and I was saying, Oh, okay, where's the droppower? Because he only has one to denny in the list, likethere's no chro Bat, there's no or or Choreo, it's just the oneto Danny. And it really feels like in this list like he is tryingactively trying not to play the Dedenne. Yeah, it's a very it's verymuch angst on the yeah, the cynasty and the vaulty guys and trying todraw the watch with the tradeability that it has, a pseudo trade trying tokeep gx is off the board, keep these off the board, have thingsable to be scooped up net out. I'll also say like a notable thingabout this list is he doesn't really have any movement options in his deck forthose Vegan trxt Pokemon. So actually the DEDATA becomes a huge liability once ithits the Board. That's the reason he hit you play the thunder mountain wasbecause he could twin energy thunder mountain and just like really just scoop it off. Yeah, and like perhaps to him for like binding night creative route todealing with that problem, because you also need a stadium in general in casethey play like a wonder lab. Sure. So, I mean that list isso cool, man. I love that list. Be Honest. Propsis to fund for coming up with another super interesting deck. One hundred andforty one on the top. Thirty two there, so I guess. So, so very good. So yeah, that's kind of the overview of theof the tournament. Now I did just want to bring up some of thepraises and the criticisms that I had about the global championships. The first thingI just want to say is, like you know, I think it isI mean, it's impossible to replicate anything like a real world championship. SoI think for for in my opinion, you know, Henry Brand is thecurrent world champion. Until POKEMON has another sanctioned world championships, he will remainthe world champion. I mean certainly Isaiah put in, you know, alot of time, a lot of hours to get to the point that hegot to. I'm not disputing that at all, but it's just not forme. It's not the same. I would you agree, Riley? Yeah, and that was kind of a load of question because he knew what myopinion was. Yous didn't know what Yep I mean. On the whole,I and this is a slam against the Atlas folks or the pog or oranyone who says it. I don't think it's in great taste to call itlike the unofficial world championship. I think there's a lot of reasons why that'sthe case, but at the end of the day, like the World Championships, world championship, these online events don't really occupy the same space. Butthat's that's really beyond the point. I mean there's there's certainly more to talkabout. I think on the whole, was successful event. It did whatit aimed to do. Got A lot of people out there and excited toplay Pokemon, and that's all you can really ask for. I just Ithink it's a mistake for online tournaments to try and replicate what has already beenI think it would be it's better for online tournaments as a whole to evolveinto what you want them to be, right like try and make them intosomething great on their own merit, as opposed to attach labels for what alreadyexists and that we can't match, you know, like we're not. Thisisn't the world championships. There's plenty of reasons why it's not. Let's whydo we have to make it at the world championships, though, like thisis awesome tournament in its own right. You know, why give it?Why even give it the being of comparison? Sure, sure, because obviously it'slike a huge, like burden to live up to. Right, exactly, call yourself the world championships and and that's fine, I mean and it'snot. You know, obviously there there are reasons that you would want tocall yourself of the their world championships, right, to bring more prestige,even if it's just a name alone.

So, you know, certainly avery a very inspiring effort that the organizers put on. I think you sawit just people are hungry to play an online tournaments and you know, therewere over one thousand hundred people and I think for like a first attempt,right, because this was generally, as far as I know from the organizers, this was our first attempt at putting something together this big. You know, as supposed to limit list. That has done it. I guess fourtimes. This was this team of organizers first time doing something that's big andand I think, generally speaking, pulled it off. You know, overall, I don't want to like give this a rate, but I would sayI was overall happy with how this tournament was ran presented, you know,the professionalism of the staff and and and also the the quality of the opponentthat I played. I personally had just really great interactions with every single opponentthat I played. You know, no bad sportsmanship, no kind of negativity. There was one interesting thing that they decided to do, and I don'tknow if this was something that they just, you know, maybe couldn't fix intime, but one thing that I worried going into the tournament was thatthe reporting system for wins and losses and they opted to go with a loserreports that they lost kind of system. So normally you would think like okay, the winner would report the score because they have a an incentive to reportthe score right, whereas the loser might actually have an incentive to give theincorrect score. Right. They might be salty or they might, you know, just not think that they were beaten by a better player or, youknow, the number of reasons that a player who lost my report that theyactually won, you know, seems very high. So they made that thatwould actually be a demerit to winner reports, because then you would report yourself asthe winner. Just putting that up. I guess you're right, but butI think I said I think there's a lack of incentive to report thatyou lost. Is More so like yes, yes, yes, there's a lackof incentive to report that you lost. Sure, because you could only reportloss. You couldn't report that your opponent one right are you can reportthat you want in any case. Yeah, it was just really interesting to thinkthat, you know, and I was a little worried about that becauseI was thinking like okay, well, what if my opponent just doesn't reportkind of out of spite, right, because if we don't report in time, then we would both get a game loss, and so maybe they thinkthat I didn't deserve the win and they would just not report and then theywould be this whole issue. And thankfully that wasn't the case. You know, I didn't run into that. Whether or not that was just because,you know, I played some you know, people that would have known about thestream or whatnot, but or they're just good sports. You know,I didn't play against anyone that I had any type of issue with, andand that's really, I think, speaks to the quality of the the community. We just have a really great community here and Pokemon, and I thinkthat's something that I'm really proud of when I bring this game up to peoplethat are interested in it and people that are just getting into it and justlike how good the community is. I think that was one thing that wason display. One thing that I didn't like was, and they solve thisproblem in day two, but just the time between rounds. In Day onethere was an absurd amount of time between rounds. And again, not likea criticism, and I understand that there could have been a lot of variables. You're dealing with, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people, butthe round sounds took almost double the amount of time that they were supposed totake. And again, I don't know what that really means. Was iteverybody reported at the same time? Did they have to like do things manually? I don't believe so, but again, I'll give the benefit of that out. But that was the biggest criticism from day one for me is thatthe rounsers took way too long and they actually advertised that we would be doneat about five o'clock eastern time. Started started about noon and ended about five. Will we started an hour late and then we ended around nine or ten, depending on if you went to the final round of competition. So thatwas a little bit of a drawback, I think. For if anyone's listeningto this and they want to, you know, start their own tournament orthey're involved in a big, big, you know large form community style tournamentlike this, I just wouldn't advertise time limits, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't give anyone an expectation of yeah, you'll be done by thistime, because I think they're just a lot of problems that inherently arise whenyou're trying to put out an event like this. Yeah, that's a that'san interesting point, like just not even bothering to advertise the time limit.Yeah, it'll I mean it's on when they're whether as are done. Yeah, done, when it's done. Yeah,...

...exactly, exactly. I think that'sactually a valid point. You know, I do want to, on theflip side, give props to the to the pop folks for developing alot of interesting discord tool like creating a cool blot system that could track allthis stuff, you know, wherever the bottleneck was. And Day One,you know, I I think it was at least a valuable endeavor in termsof like making these interesting mechanisms to make the tournament run more smoothly on thewhole. So yeah, yeah, I mean I think I think a lotof what what happened in day one was that, you know, probably everybodywas reporting at the end of the time, whereas in day two, you know, you had a higher caliber overall of players and then you had alonger time to report, you know, because there would be matches that wouldbe done very quickly and you know that could get input into the system earlier. And so, you know, certainly there are just some inherent differences betweenwhat is being reported day wanted to but overall, good tournament. I wasvery happy with how it ran. I was very happy to have participated,I was very happy that it was offered. Yeah, so I actually have aquestion for you. Having having been in both day one and day twoof the online global championship. Do you think in the online land scape specificallythat it is better to do best of one or best of three, becausethe different days had different styles to them. Did you? Yeah, the bestof one was was more suited. You think best at three still waslike a better way to go about it. What are your thoughts there? Yeah, I mean best of three felt fine to me. Again, Ithink you could probably get away with since the online format is just really quickand efficient in certain ways in terms of like, you know, shuffling orrestarting a match. You know you can get away with a lesser amount oftime, I think, for for for that, like you, I thinkyou could reasonably go down to like forty five minutes best of three in anonline format, and then that's not I don't think that's out of the realmof possibility. I don't think we've seen that yet for many online tournament butit's certainly something that people could try. Whereas, like you have that kindof pressure that you would in a in an in person setting to you know, scoop a game early if you're getting down, but you do have enoughtime, I think, in an online setting to finish three games in aboutforty five or fifty minutes, as opposed to the hour that we normally getin an online an in person tournament. Yeah, so, so, ideallybest of one would suffice, just playing extra rounds. I didn't mind thatfor the first day of competition because you were just trying to get to agoal as opposed to having like the best, you know, ratio of wins andlosses. So they play. I mean they definitely felt like two differenttournaments in that sense, where like day one you're just trying to, youknow, get to seven wins and you're done, and that day too,you're trying to be have as many wins as you possibly can. So Ithink they both worked fine and they were just used for different purposes. Yeah, not sure I quite agree with the verbiage there, but I agree withthe you know, think I agree with the stead of it behind the boards. What don't you agree with? I'm curious. Just the way you phrasedit was a little off to me, but I agree with what you mean. Fair enough. You basically said you're trying to get to as many winsas possible toys. Well, okay, okay, how can I rephrase thatso that people don't think I'm an idiot? Um, you're just it's just arace. There's I don't know if there's a great way to I don'tknow if there's a great it's like it's like getting it's like getting it justwins on the board so you can get the benchmark versus trying to stand outas objectively the best. I think is like yeah, yeah, I meanlike misplays don't matter as much in day one as they do in day two, because I was record. Oh, your record overall, and day onedoesn't matter. Yeah, as long as as long as it gets seven wins. So you could be seven and Oh, and that would be just as goodas seven and four or seven and three or whatever was ten rounds,I guess. And then, as opposed to day to, we're like,you know, you can't. You want that good ratio and the misplaces canhost. Having the best of three will be more valuable, I guess.I mean it's like a ratio versus the final count. I think it's likewhat you're doing? Yeah, yeah, cool, yeah, I think onthe whole I'm excited to see how these online championships continue. I really can'tforesee anywhere in the immediate future any in person events, especially, as wesaid, before in the United States where, especially in the wake of colleges openingand bring back students like we got always to go. So yeah,absolutely, but I do want to take this time to plug that we areworking on adding more to the online landscape. I've been in talks with Andrew Mahoneand full grip and Riley about producing...

...some type of tournament for for peoplethat want to play, because they're clearly is a lot of interest in doingthis online format and and participating, and so look for that and the comingdays something that you know, the the you know, another community outlet forPokemon. Yeah, we spent a lot of time talking about that, anymore than we intended to. That's true. Cool. Well, there's one lastthing I wanted to talk to before we wrapped up season two of tagteam, and that is post rotation. So we've we've hit the edge.Tomorrow, I believe, is the day of rotation on tcg Oh. SoI just want to get a quick firing off of thoughts about rotation. Yeah, let's structure it a little bit. So what's your favorite thing about rotation, your least favorite thing and your number one deck choice after rotation? What'smy favorite thing yeah, your favorite, maybe favorite thing that's leading. Yeah, probably, and we are just talking about how like intricate stall was,but probably just not. I mean just saying goodbye to our anger and whatthat does mean for alternate wind condition archetypes, because I think for the better partof two years, you know, our ranger was the kind of mainstayand a lot of these stall mill archetypes, these alternate wind condition archetypes, andso to see that leave the format is kind of, you know,I'm not one to be, you know, very antagonistic about alternate wind conditions.I think they're very healthy for the game, especially when they are ashigh skill as we've, you know, seen. But again, just tosee it leave is is very nice. I think that card a broken Ithink our anger is a broken car. What about the thing you hate themost? So you go. Thing I hate to see go is probably probablyThunder Mountain. I do like the lightning support and I do think, youknow, lightning doesn't maintain it's it's prominent place in the metagame post rotation.I think it does occupy some place. I'm excited to figure out what thatis. But you know, the loss of Thunder Mountain and epower just reallyfeel like a a big loss. Yeah, I've really enjoyed playing lightning decks sincesince those cards have been out, so it'll be it'll be sad tosee him go. And how about your current choice, post rotation? Currentchoice? Well, we were talking about lightning decks, but I really havebeen excited to have Italian rise to the forefront. Yeah, I was.I was just saying how much I will miss lightning decks but at the sametime they're absence. Telly on doesn't mean them at all. Yeah, exactly. So I'm looking forward to to Italian. I that was a deck that lastformat, you know, are, I guess, this current format,if we're talking, you know, pre rotation. I enjoyed playing it wasprobably my like meme, a rogue deck of choice, and I just reallylike putting a lot of time into it because I like the snipe, Ilike the energy removal or denial, and it just felt really fun to me. And so now, with lightning getting a little bit of a nerf shouldbe able to compete. You know, it's had its biggest enemies kind oftaken out. So to be cool, take it out. Interestingly, phrasingthat from the knees. Bro Yeah, it's like take a big billy cluband just so fuck. Yeah, yeah, it tell you honestly as a pokemonand tell you and got too much flat and tell Yan is a coolpokmon little snipe. Okay, he's a little sniper, man. That's it. I mean it's kind of I don't know if it if it's really ingood taste right now, but maybe not. I don't know. You don't thinkof it like that. Well, I mean it's okay, and Idigress. I. So, what about You, rally? What what are? What are the answers for you those questions? It's funny because my answersare probably just like the reverse of what you said. I'm stick a lightningsupport. I think it's awful. I don't think it was very good carddesign. Not that our anger is good car design, but I hate howmuch a pigeon holed the lightning decks ate, how much it oppressed anything that wasweak to lightning. Because you are just you were weak to lightning liketimes of billion because of electric power, you know, like they played toelectric powers. Extra hundred twenty damage.

Yeah, so like if you're aweek to lightning, you could just be like rammed by some random like Pikachuand just tied. Yeah, so I didn't like that. I thought undermountain was kind of a silly card. Yeah, I think one of likecocoa or thunder mountain is fine, but having them both at once really justramped decks up beyond. But I thought was reasonable appropriate. Yeah, sure, but I am sad actually to see your anger go. Okay, andit's not just because it mill dex. I thought it was like a veryskill intensive card put a lot of it was a very thought provoking card,had a lot of interesting like uses, and I I just there's not likean immediate niche for alternate wind context, especially with Beloba also rotating or,yeah, I guess being banned. Yeah, suit or rotating. So I justdon't know what like the future alternate wind conditions are, and I agreewith you that like having some sort of alternate condition is healthy and it forcesyou to be like thoughtful about how you're building decks and what you're going toplay against, as opposed to just thinking about like tight matchups and like bashingyour skulls in against Another v Mac. Yeah, doing a lot of damage. Yeah, with the right type, and I expressed a lot recently thatI am not really a big fan of having these gigantic emacs Pokemon just usethese relatively vanilla attacks against each other over and over until one of them dies, and so I feel like it's a kind of unfortunate that we're basically nixingoff all of the support for alternate way conditions. Yeah, sure, so, and true. I don't know if I'm more sad about or Angu directlyas much as I am just like, there doesn't seem like a there's notlike a route. You know, there's no there's no wacky smacky, ashard as I can tell right now, and that didn't play your anger.It's just a stall deck, right. So, yeah, I mean youlook at deciduay being kind of the torch bearer for kind of stall but notdeath has to say prizes, you know, has to pull offensive. Yeah,sure, yeah, right, right. Well, that's all I'm saying is, like you look at that as being like okay, that's the future, but like the future is not very bright for that kind of death.Yeah, and let alone the fact that the drive probably isn't a great deckanyway, let alone the fact that yeah, people still enjoy sent to scorch forsome reason. So you're going to just get bodied by the Vulcanians,right. Yeah, like I just I don't want to be caught in thesituation where I feel like I just have to choose ATP or my favorite coloredvmax. Yeah, and I feel like that's the situation. The game isgetting pigeon holed down and I'm not really it's not like me so over atleast upset that I'm not like excited to play the game, but it's justlike it's less exciting to me than if there were. Right, it's certainlyvery it's certainly going to be very noticeable. Yeah, I think. And Ithink the other card that I missed the most is fiery flint, becauseI really like gave us Flon, and that's fair enough. I took wasnot very skillful, you know, there was a there's like some like sequencingwith it. Yeah, like compared to like mill, you know, itwas a yeah, or like stall, I guess more appropriately, it wasthe more skillful of the two. But right, you know, even then, like it was just a fun I really like David Cef on, especiallytowards the end of the format. I just ran the the stuff. I'mon the wall and I loved it. So Fun and it's still around,but it loses one of its most important I would argue, tools in fieryflint. Sure, and I don't know if there's an immediate replacement that feelsthat niche very well. So just another thing, im I'm sad to seeyou go. You know what are? What's The archetype that you're most excitedto play, and I'm most excited to play. I just, like I'vementioned the past couple weeks, my favorite colored Vmax, which is a turnof this. I really like the dark type POKEMON. I always have.Yeah, I'm that guy. You're that guy. I've played. I startedoff the game playing dark I hypno. That evolved into turbo, dark,dark dragons. Then I've played Zorar. You play dark, right, Hipno, was your first deck? Yeah, the first guy ever built. Ohmy gosh, yeah, I don't say. Yeah, I remember that. Withthat deck was like people were like, Oh man, this could actually begood. You know, got to get your hip nose. Oh myGod, I can't believe that was the first one. Yeah, that's ahow wow, that really dates you. I didn't. You're such a youngster. I am a youngster, but you know, throughout my entire history Iwent from sorry, I've note to turbo dark, dark dragons is our ourkand you know, the dark now with the dark is as returned. Ieven her. I even pushed for dark box, like harder than I probablyshould have to work. Yeah, yeah, and so I am personally excited forit. Turned it is. It is a dark type POKEMON which issick. It is got a big old bench which is sick. Yeah,man, that's really my two criteria.

That's funny. That's really funny.Wow, dark, right, hypno. Well, as a time rally,let's open it up to the floor here. Dan had something that he wanted tobring up about the Dan Battle. So count the money and I hada Dan battle, which is something I advertise over on my twitch channel anddance where we play as many Dans as we possibly can and it's really justrock, paper scissors through the lens of Pokemon, tcg. Oh, andDan crush me. Count the money. Just absolutely obliterate I was. Iwas. I swore that he was like looking at my screen, but Ihe did. He did for Al those right delay, like inherently? Sure, yeah, there's a slight delay. Exactly exactly? I don't think hewas doing it because a lot of the times when I would press my choice, like it would be immediately responded to. But it was just absurd. Iwent like six and twelve or like five and thirteen or something, orjust ridiculously. Look, I have been known to be kind of a legendin rock paper. Others talk about our Christmas RPS battle. I think itwas like best of twenty one, and I think you beat me. Itwas like zero to seven or something. Yeah, yeah, like fairly,fairly handily. Yeah, yeah, that's a substantial lead. I consider myselfto be good at RPS. So that only speaks to you your strength ofcare or and power. That's why I'm saying so. Anyway, and justlike destroyed me, and I I'm not that salty, but I'm a littlesalty. I'm wondering if your power somewhat lies and like a real world landscapewhere you can you can have like your eyes digging into the right, right, right, right, you can read the opponent maybe a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, like that could be showering gun from Naruto and likeyou're reading the movements before they happen. Yeah, they could definitely be true. That could definitely be true, and I maybe it's just like the hypethat I need, like I need an audience. You know, it justdoesn't feel the same when I'm doing it over a computer screen. Yeah,now, with no one around me, should we do like a quick virtualRPS battle? Okay, ready, yeah, okay, rock, paper scissors,shoot. Wait, you just waited so long. I don't I didn'tsee what you had wait, but I got to the lake we're throwing on. Okay, I heard. Okay, ready, Rock, paper SCISSOR,shoot, I cut your paper Bro Oh, Dang, ha ha, scissors needspaperwork. Riley's one hundred in the tag team championship for RPS. I'veI've lost my touch. That's sick, very sick. Fire, flame,zero and chat asking if I'm keeping my post pandemic hair. Probably, yeah, I kind of like it a little bit longer. I want to diet. That's my next adventure is dying. Okay, IT USOULD die my whitebond. You should digest the bond just about. We've talked about doing likea lemon juice type thing, lemon juice. And Yeah, yeah, I wouldlove to have like dirty blonde hairrisready's sick. HMM, I'm okay,okay, kill it. So well, Riley, we are coming to theend of our second season. Yeah, come a long way that we have. We have a lot of exciting things in store for the next season.Going to be changing it up a little bit, not too much, buta little bit. Going to be and some things changing up the look alittle bit. So, yeah, just stay tuned it. It should begreat. If you're listening to us on spotify, itunes, Google podcasts,wherever you your podcast, please make sure to leave us a review. That'sreally helpful for other people to find us. So if you like the podcast andyou think someone else would like the podcast, just let us know,you know, leave that review and help us get the exposure that we need. Yeah, absolutely. So we appreciate you all. We love you asalways. Thank you for the support through the first two seasons and we willcatch you on the next one. Piece. See You.

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