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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 27 · 1 year ago

2-27. Adios Orangutan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are ready to see off the UPR-LOT era of cards. Make way for Sword and Shield! Come check out a recap of the Pokemon Online Global event and a preview of things to come.

How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert and I'm joined by my good friend, as always, JW Curry. All, JW, you. How's it going today? It's going really well, Riley. I burned like all my skin off today, all of it. I still basically okay. Yeah, you do well. I was working out in the blazing sun, in the heat of a Columbus August, and it's going up this August, the notorious Columbus Ohio August, going door to door, doing the the sense of stuff, which I'm having a good time doing, but it just gets absolutely disgustingly hot and they do have like an evening hour, but during that time I'm usually, you know, with Anne or doing something, you know, pokemon related, and so I wish I could go out more in the evenings, but you know, I'm stuck doing it during the day, so I just get absolutely burnt to a crisp. My neck is destroyed. I don't think I'll have a neck after this is done. Yeah, so it's been it's been fun. How about you, Riley? You know I've been doing well, I've been doing well. It's very busy time for me. I'm in the midst of really really in depth project and really in the weeds right now, but it's been fun and engaging. Yeah, speaking of the heat, I I don't know if you have the right to complain about the Columbus August. I had a right my my best friend in college. He moved to Arizona for Grad School and his car is straight up overheated. It died. Is Total. That's a wild yeah, so you divide a car, get regt. I know doesn't even insurance for it, as insurance cover heat. I don't know if insurance coverage or not. I mean he's high. It was like an old, oldish car, but it still it is overheard and was dead. Well, one time, one time that actually happened to me going to a pokemon tournament. I've ever told you this story? I don't think so. Okay, so we're going to a pokemon tournament in Canada and I grew up in Michigan and new you know a couple guys from Michigan. So we're going to start and drive through my hometown of Port Huron to go into Canada to go to Toronto for regionals and we're on the bridge and the car that were in just starts to like, you know, really starts working. You know, we're like okay, it's a little interesting, and we're sitting on the bridge because you have to of course, go through customs and you know, they ask you a few questions make sure you're, you know, not a terrorist or anything like that or carrying anything illegal into the country, and we are, you know, he's he's or pause, we're breaking on the on the bridge and then we start to get going again and it's just working really hard. The car just can't quite keep up and then it just dies right there in the middle of the bridge. Oh No, so we had to like push it to the customs area and it turns out like one of the fans was dead, so the the engine was overheating, so it was like only half capacity of a fan right, so it's only getting half the amount of air that it needed to function and it was abysmal. We actually had his dad who lived in, you know, the the town that we crossed over into Canada. He came with like the backup car and then drove the other car back home and like he was so furious. So we took the backup car we had up getting their fine, but it was like another like two hours of just like sitting and waiting, you know, for for our backup car to come and it was really funny. I want one of you on that one. Do you know the Memphis story yet with your big car? Yeah, yeah, I mean kind of on the way home. Yeah, so I'll tell it for the listeners. So this is Memphis. What is that? Two Thousand and eighteen? It was two thousand and eighteen. Yeah, because I'm still living in Columbus and everyone background, I was already rustrated like heading to this tournament, because I got canceled on by like three different people. So I just like relatively extensive airbnb that was split between two people. Thankfully, my second patron, Adler Pierce, was like very good about it. He's like very willing to accommodate like the increase in price and actually it was like Super Nice and we had great conditions for two people. Yeah, so I guess it was fine. And then in retrospect I realized how much I value like comfort when I'm traveling and I'm willing to pay more to be comfortable. But anyway, so we...

...drive down with my old large cars, the Yukon Xcel from two thousand and five, magnificent beast of a car really. It was a behemoth. It was large as in charge. No one would mess with it, but it was old and I had just taken it to the mechanic the day before we went to Memphis. You know, they pick some things up. It was making some noise and always went away, and so it's feeling pretty good. And Memphis is a it was just like a sizeable drive from Shirt Columbus. It was like nine to ten hours. So you know, we'RE DOWN TO MEMPHIS. Tournament goes horrible for me. It goes fine for Adler. He gets like top thirty two or top sixty four or something. Sure, we played the same sixty, but I had a much less sustainable day than he did. So all in good though. Yeah, and we start heading back home after after he finishes and gets his like packs or whatever, and the car is like making some noise, but it's like, you know, this car makes noise. It's old. I'm used to it at this point. Yeah, so I kept on driving and we make it to contuct we make it midway through Kentucky and the car is just really like hanging on for dear life and I can tell that something isn't quite right, but I think I was still under the impression that we can make it, because we are still we certainly left two hours away, because we have right, you're kind of like a half hour left of Kentucky and then like the hour and a half from Cincinnati to Columbus. Yeah, maybe two and a half hours. I guess it would be a little bit longer. Yeah, but you know, we're getting like right. We're right by the bridge between Cincinnati and Kentucky that connects the states, and I realize the car is getting incredibly difficult to drive. Yes, and so it's a it's like steering. It is very challenging because at what I realize in retrospect was the power steering was no longer working. So if you're not a car person, like cars have like mechanisms that make it easier to steer because you don't realize you don't realize it when you're steering car, but you're steering up really large, heavy object and so there's a system mechanisms there. Where that mechanism doesn't work, you really lies that your steering a very large, heavy object with all of your physical might. So I realize that this is wrong and I use all of my physical might to turn the car off of the road into the into the nearest exit. The car just comes to a sliding stop and that is the end of the car and we're just we're about fifteen minutes from the bridge to Cincinnati and then another fifteen minutes from my childhood home and then from there an hour and a half from sure lumbus where we live. Yep, and Adler has like a final the next day or something, and so I'm like really worried not getting him home. Yeah, right, right, because it's your because the blood is on your hands. Sent. Yeah, I's your car and yeah, your responsibility. He had basically just like passed out in the backseat, just like laying across all the seats and just chilled for a while. I'm like on the curb like crying, like calling AAA, like I just want to go home at this point, like I'm just miserable. The whole tournament was fat. I just want to go home. Yeah, about three hours later, and midway through this whole experience, some very under the influenced. Man Drives by on a motorcycle and hit, the mirror falls off his motorcycle and he just drives away. He like got off the motorcycle, checked in with us for like we're fine, and then he drives away. It is mirror fell off and he didn't come back together. That's is incredibly unsafe. It was so funny, though, so I took the mirror and just put it in the center console the car, which I think it's bill is in there. Yeah, but yeah, I'm just miserable. The AA guy eventually comes and he starts talking to us about like his his experience with women. Yeah, which really I didn't want to talk about that at three am, but you know, so it goes. We get back to my parents house, I take one of their other cars back to Columbus and I think they actually got it fixed up. What it happened was the like the hose for the coolant had like become detached. Yeah, so the engine had overheated, which also deactivated the power steering. Yep, so unlucky. That sure absurd it was. It was just ridiculous. That whole Memphis experience was just truly awful from start to finish. Hate to see it for sure, but it was it's a fond memory. You know. It's one of those things where it's really bad in the moment but you can respect, like and laugh at it looking back. Yeah, because I know everyone has that moment, yeah,...

I feel like, where it's like nothing could have gone any better, or like nothing could have gone any worse, I guess, and so you just have to just smile and brushed off. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, but you know, we keep on trucking. You yourself at his tournament this weekend and it wasn't nearly as unsuccessful as my memphis run. Yeah, yeah, I was. I was pretty happy with the result. So I was playing in the atlas collectibles pokemon online gaming championships this last weekend on online global. That's right. I keep saying gaming. It's global. Okay, Gamer, but that's true. That's true. I had a really overall good, you know, positive time. I will, you know, get into some of the criticisms. I you know, nothing. Nothing. I'm not bashing the tournament. I want to just be up front and say that I'm very thankful that there are people in our community that devote the time that they do to helping us have an online experience, because I know it can be very challenging and I know it can be very unrewarding and I know that people can be very, you know, unforgiving with some of the language that they use around these tournaments and they can be very harsh in their criticisms and I hope that that is not what I am presenting. I hope what I'm presenting is just a very like, you know, unbiased evaluation of my experience in the tournament. So it was very fun. I you know, we'll will start just doing a very brief I don't want to spend too much time on this, but just like a very brief for those of you that, you know, don't follow me on Youtube, where I posted a video about this. But what I played? So I went in with a vehicle deck and my thought there was just too in this, especially in this blind metagame. I wanted to have like as much control over games as I possibly could, where I would try to take control of the game and try to just maximize the opportunities to outplay my opponent, because we're looking at a format right now that is particularly fast. It's maybe faster than any of the other formats that I maybe have ever played when you're talking about cards like ATP that can, you know, reduce the amount of attacks that you have to use, or you look at, you know, two and three prize pokemon being just the norm. And so the game is extremely fast right now. And so, and just trying to for the listeners who might not be a familiar with the park championship, can you remind us of the format? Ohh Yes, it was. It was standard format, but pre rotation. So also prison too, darkness a blaze exactly. So yeah, I wanted a deck that really kind of slowed the format down in a sense and slowed the games down, and I found that with Vika volt and I had been testing that the whole week prior on my own and on twitch, and I was just finding like, of all the decks that I tried, it just seemed to maybe fit my fit my style, like it seemed to work well with me and it had the best winning percentage. So I was like, okay, I tell this to all the people that I coach as well, like trust your results, and I felt like this was a really important tournament for me to do just that. You know, I had the best winning percentage with the vehicle on the ladder and just with my own testing, and so I trusted my results from the testing and went into the tournament, you know, feeling very good about it. And so day one was pretty solid. I, you know, went seven and two to make on to day two. And then in day two I maybe didn't do quite as well but, like all the games were extremely close and I faced the biggest like regret, I guess, was facing a couple vehicle mirrors that had some text for the mirror that I didn't have. So I took two losses to the same exact list where they had just more healing options and more gusting options and it made it really difficult. But still, you know, kind of came down to that last turn in both of those matches. But Day two went five and four. So overall again I felt really good about the deck. Placed sixty seven overall and, you know, felt like I I achieved something and had a good time. Awesome. Yeah, people definitely a solid choice. I think, was it one vehicle in the top eight? There was one that made I think third. Yeah, so there's a vehicle up there on the top eight and then there was also the eventual winner of the tournament. That peak around deck played it to vehicle blet, really leaning into that option for the lightning type archetype. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think, you know, maybe in retrospect, like some type of peak ram based vehicle volt build or the cool...

...based peak around build would have been, you know, obviously the play. I mean it performed, you know, not only one, but it had something like nine spots in the top twenty four, something ridiculous like that. So just really was a dominating force in the pog championships. Yeah, so let's dive in then, into what we saw as we got further up in the ranks in the top sixteen, top eight and eventual finals of this tournament. So, like you said, the peak a Ram archetype really continued to see success. I don't think that is overtly a surprise to anyone. Right. P Gram has continued to be a powerful deck. It really didn't lose anything going into this format, besides maybe having another v Max deck that can keep up with it. But really, when we look at with the Cross Section of the Metagame like pee, gram was actually in a pretty good spot, especially in that day to Meta where if we consider these, we consider like a turn of this a bad matchup, if it even is. Sure, you know, the majority of them met US seemed very skewed to me, and day two, especially as you got towards the end of the day, towards ATP decks, seemed like that was just overall, the favorite choice of the day to Metagame, and Peter Really is continued to do fine in that matchup. Certainly hasn't lost anything in the matchup and come out of the gates swinging, as well as just having a generally good matchup spread. So I mean, what can we add that hasn't already been said by ourselves about how about your right? Yeah, he drops anything. It just gained a new tool, which, yeah, I feel like. I feel like we say that every set. Like fiker on, you know, is already good. It got a new tool to add to its arsenal and it'll continue to be good. Right. So, right now we got said that, you know. I remember with Bolt on, you know, and then and then people started, including you know, to bolt on their peak around me. Another back we had the cocard when it so sure the cocoa bea and then that replaced by bolt on and now we have the co Val. There's this always, I guess, like well, addition. Yeah, yeah, right, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, it's a very strong that. I mean, we don't need to go over it again, but just yeah, you saw the strength in it and and obviously vehicle being that trainer lock option that that no other deck besides just a stray vehicle has. I mean it was very powerful and kind of getting setting up because we talked about peak. I'm like, it's one kind of weakness that's kind of hidden with the electric powers is the damage output. Like it kind of struggles in a sense to get those big numbers. But then you have something like a vehicle that can just come in and do a little chip damage item, lock the opponent and kind of swing the tempo of the game for you. So really cool, you know, inclusion for a lot of peak rom decks that performed really well this yeah, so, and just like the Kurram, I don't think we need to talk anymore about ATP. We've seen ATP to continue success. The deck really hasn't changed much at all, besides maybe having a slightly larger emphasis on the turn one. Yeah, at this point in the Meta because it's so fast. So I think the archetypes that I'm most interested in talking about personally, I do want to call out. I don't I don't have a lot to say about this deck, but I do what I call it extra drill. Ended up getting top sixteen, which was super cool. I think extra was the first deck to qualify through the first day as well. Went like hundred absurd. How many people rounds did it face to get there? Right, right, but that's super sick. The two decks that I'm most interested in talking about, though, are you two coming back from the dead. God, not even really from the dead, but, you know, rising to prominence once again, getting fourth place and bubbling out of top eight. And then I also would like to talk about the sanders mill archetype. Yeah, I also want to rub in your face that I thought mill would be a good option, and I said it last week and you kind of Jop me down on that. Well, yeah, I mean to be fair, I although I will push back and say, did you think that mill, in the form of Sanders decklist, would be what would have been played? Because I would say I'd actually not that far off. No, really, okay, because I would say that Sanders List is just absurdly complicated and not kind of not the not the mill that we've come to know and love in the form of like MAG cargo and our rang guru. It's just very different. It's very fresh. Yeah, I think the main things that I wasn't really privy to was the Dell caddy. I want to say it's like the main thing that I wasn't really on to sure, and that was I mean that was huge and that was instrumental. He also had the Mr...

Mind that I was never even considering. But I don't know, I never saw that from I do anything on stream, so I can attest like what. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I think it was just for like ATP right, because then if they gx attack and they don't have like a secondary attacker, then you just block them out of the game essentially. So but yeah, I mean scoop up Nett obviously opens up a lot of new possibilities that I don't think we're really that explored by many male players. and to see Sander once again, you know, play this just absurdly intricate mill deck that that really capitalizes on a lot of these new these new tools that it has. It is really impressive and I just give a lot of a lot of compliments to him and I wish that he would have been able to win that first game and, you know, take on the crown, because I think we see something like this. This is like the perfect example. It's a perfect example of a great player taking a deck that they know inside and out to a high finish and not that you know, that's that's no hate on his opponent in finals, but just that you know, Sander knows these style decks, has put a lot of time into that and it just is paying off. You know, it is certainly paid off in this tournament. Yeah, and I mean this is a classic example of like the fatal flaw of mill decks in large events is the time limit really plays against them. Not because they can't, not because they can't mill in time or finish in time, but there if they happen to drop a game, they are the ones who suffer as a result. Yeah, there's just not a lot they can do when they're put in the situation where it's a game three and time is low because their uppon it has to be ahead on prizes. You know, they don't have to reach a reach, reach a wind condition. So we hit this game pit scenario, for those of you who are watching, where Sandra had realistically removed all of Isaiah's options to win and he had like everything that he needed locked up. The board was set up for him, but it didn't matter. Like Isaia had already taken I think one or two prizes, the articuno option for him to like knock things out with. It wasn't really available to him. So, I mean sander is kind of lost, and you know, that's just the unfortunate reality of these mill style dex and yeah, and and definitely is like the the gate keep on the deck, you know. I mean there's there's a high skill cap. If you look at his list, it has somewhere in the realm of like twenty one of so already with the deck list. You know, you give this to a new player and they're just going to be scratching their head at like what the optimal routing is. But then, yeah, also having to manage time. It makes it for you know, it just it's going to be a long term if you decide to play a deck like this. And yeah, again to see someone perform as well as he has over the course of a whole season with these cards is really exciting. I am curious to to know like what a mill player who, at least you know for this season and other seasons in the past, has made kind of a reputation on mill and stall, what they decide to do and in the post rotation format. That'll that'll be really interesting. Yeah, I mean Sanders Really Gone Multiple Seasons now leaning into these stall archetypes and I think the it's lost a lot of tools. If stall exists heading forward, I don't know what it looks like. Yeah, and that's coming from someone who maybe not as to the level of Sander, but definitely I am a connoisseur of the arts and and I have no idea the dark words. I had no idea what it looks like going forward. Yeah, say, but Sander is truly serious master with these decks. So much props to him. He he deserves every one of the finishes that he's gotten and probably more. You know, he's really carved that niche for himself really well, and I say that is his concept was close to one I was working with, but he really pushed it over the edge. With the inclusion of delcaddy. He always manages to find those little extra tools. He builds his deck in a very unique way. So I cannot give enough praise to sander and and pray so Isaiah's well. He's had a very successful season. Wrapping it up with a dove for Peter Ram is very impressive. So it was really a star studded finals there was really cool to see. Absolutely. I do want to talk loop back to you too, though. So I musing was something that we didn't put really a lot of stock into, both of us. You know, I don't really get to hold this one over your head, unfortunately, and it, yeah, right, a fair amount of success. So yeah, and to be honest, I look at the lesson it's still a little hard for me to like parse out exactly what made it so good. I think it came down to...

...like a good ATP match up more than anything. It is my impression. Sure, I don't know if that's the same impression you got. Yeah, I mean, well, you're looking at you're looking at ATP decks not have a way to hit seventy up and and so you know you're at they're maxing out at two hundred and sixty, because, yeah, exactly. And so you know, me two is kind of just just blowing through your initial set up in the ATP and then not even getting response Koed in return. So, yeah, I mean me too. That would be the primary reason. I still don't know that I would have ever thought of like mewtwo and Meu being a good play for this tournament. But yeah, I mean when you look at how much ATP was played, which is like double in day to the next highest played deck, you know, you could certainly see how a player that did play me too, you know, if they hit a lot of ATP, would be pretty successful. I think. I think media is probably also finding its people. Rom I at least can hold its own. Sure, you know, I think it's struggles more so against the v Max decks, where the three hundred is no longer enough. Yeah, especially, I mean jagged ball wasn't really a factor, but dragged bull basically killed me too off for you know, a quarter. Yes, definitely, and so dragon pulls decline was also to Newt's benefit. I don't see how the deck likes this to ainte itself against things like a turn. It is, but it turned to this really wasn't that favorite of a deck, it seemed like in the day to metagame. I mean it was certainly played, but the metagame is really dominating. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean there are, there were a lot of other you know, a lot of other decks up there at the top, you know, sent to scorch. Yeah, let's just take a second to mention sent to scorch being an absolute flop. Yeah, I got dirty, which, yeah, I mean, and for the amount of players that played it. Like you look at Peka Ram having less than the amount of players that sent scorch had in both day one a day two and just absolutely going ham in the finishes, where sent to scorch having, you know, somewhere around double the amount of players that peak ram had, just had very abysmal finishes across the board. And you know, I think I would attribute that a lot to just the consistency, the rock consistency, of other decks, whereas I've found sent to scorches really live or die even more so than a deck like mewtwo. Sent to scorches really live or die by the welder, and the problem there is that you need welder like you need a lot of cards a very specific times, whereas a deck like met doesn't necessarily need that, you know, because your attacker and the mew too deck is a basic as opposed to sent to Scorch, where like you give them, you give the opponent that one turn to like really mess with your board position by gusting up the bench sent to scorch or something like that. You know, there are just other welder decks, primarily mew too, that perform better because of not needing as many cards in certain orders. Right. Why? Yesterday we didn't like and so you can go ahead finish. You thought, no, no, go ahead. No, no, it's I was going to say, beyond that. At you two can get a huge Ko on an ATP or any number of things onto into almost always where you sent to scorch. It's not even guaranteed. Even if you get a Volcanian off, you know that you'll do enough damage to Ko something that's huge still, like, yeah, you know what is the what's the end game here? What are you working door? I stand by yeah, I stand by her, and I said last week where it's when you win was sent to Scorch, you blow them out of the water completely because you have like an invincible, infinite damage attacker. I think that's the reason that people got so attached to the deck. I really do. Yeah, and definitely, like last week, I was really just confused, like I was hearing a lot of rumblings about, oh, sent to scorch could be good. You know, center scorch is good. Since scorch it's good, and and I just my red flags were up. You know, I wasn't I wasn't ready to call it. I wasn't ready to call it horrible, because there are some things that, you know, make it, at least on paper, seem, you know, like a decent, you know, workable deck, but then in practice, I mean it very clearly showed that it was head and shoulders, I think, below a lot of other day. I mean there's, I mean probably five decks that I would rather have played over sent to scorch. You know, you look at Atpe, look at Peak Ram, you know, Blow Cephalon had showings a turn it, as I would, I would absolutely, a hundred percent take a turn to this over sent to scorching. And actually the vehicle deck that I played in a lot of others played, you know, had a good sense to scorch matchup. So it's at a certain point you're looking at sent to scorch and like wondering what makes it any good against the field. Yeah,...

I mean what I think of decks. I'd rather play than sent to scorch. I think speaker on bill, vehicle volt mew two it turn it is plus CEPHALID. Yeah, eight, missing anything there. I think that's about every man party. Maybe I would rather play that party because it's probably be a more entertaining experience, honestly. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was one of the surprise finishers. We see Sufan getting twenty nine with a mad party list that, I believe, you know, less than less than five people had in day to horror ad part. But yeah, going with a Combo list. I was just about to bring that up. So Stefan's list included the GERACI PRISM, Mr Mime from detective Pikachu and couple copies of primate wisdom are rang guru to just get that Geraci into the prizes. Rowt off of an attack and yeah, it really worked well for him. Ended up getting a top thirty two finish and a very unique list using thunder man out mysterious treasure using thunder mountain was the big card. Yeah, that was really interesting. I looked at the list and I was saying, Oh, okay, where's the drop power? Because he only has one to denny in the list, like there's no chro Bat, there's no or or Choreo, it's just the one to Danny. And it really feels like in this list like he is trying actively trying not to play the Dedenne. Yeah, it's a very it's very much angst on the yeah, the cynasty and the vaulty guys and trying to draw the watch with the tradeability that it has, a pseudo trade trying to keep gx is off the board, keep these off the board, have things able to be scooped up net out. I'll also say like a notable thing about this list is he doesn't really have any movement options in his deck for those Vegan trxt Pokemon. So actually the DEDATA becomes a huge liability once it hits the Board. That's the reason he hit you play the thunder mountain was because he could twin energy thunder mountain and just like really just scoop it off. Yeah, and like perhaps to him for like binding night creative route to dealing with that problem, because you also need a stadium in general in case they play like a wonder lab. Sure. So, I mean that list is so cool, man. I love that list. Be Honest. Props is to fund for coming up with another super interesting deck. One hundred and forty one on the top. Thirty two there, so I guess. So, so very good. So yeah, that's kind of the overview of the of the tournament. Now I did just want to bring up some of the praises and the criticisms that I had about the global championships. The first thing I just want to say is, like you know, I think it is I mean, it's impossible to replicate anything like a real world championship. So I think for for in my opinion, you know, Henry Brand is the current world champion. Until POKEMON has another sanctioned world championships, he will remain the world champion. I mean certainly Isaiah put in, you know, a lot of time, a lot of hours to get to the point that he got to. I'm not disputing that at all, but it's just not for me. It's not the same. I would you agree, Riley? Yeah, and that was kind of a load of question because he knew what my opinion was. Yous didn't know what Yep I mean. On the whole, I and this is a slam against the Atlas folks or the pog or or anyone who says it. I don't think it's in great taste to call it like the unofficial world championship. I think there's a lot of reasons why that's the case, but at the end of the day, like the World Championships, world championship, these online events don't really occupy the same space. But that's that's really beyond the point. I mean there's there's certainly more to talk about. I think on the whole, was successful event. It did what it aimed to do. Got A lot of people out there and excited to play Pokemon, and that's all you can really ask for. I just I think it's a mistake for online tournaments to try and replicate what has already been I think it would be it's better for online tournaments as a whole to evolve into what you want them to be, right like try and make them into something great on their own merit, as opposed to attach labels for what already exists and that we can't match, you know, like we're not. This isn't the world championships. There's plenty of reasons why it's not. Let's why do we have to make it at the world championships, though, like this is awesome tournament in its own right. You know, why give it? Why even give it the being of comparison? Sure, sure, because obviously it's like a huge, like burden to live up to. Right, exactly, call yourself the world championships and and that's fine, I mean and it's not. You know, obviously there there are reasons that you would want to call yourself of the their world championships, right, to bring more prestige, even if it's just a name alone.

So, you know, certainly a very a very inspiring effort that the organizers put on. I think you saw it just people are hungry to play an online tournaments and you know, there were over one thousand hundred people and I think for like a first attempt, right, because this was generally, as far as I know from the organizers, this was our first attempt at putting something together this big. You know, as supposed to limit list. That has done it. I guess four times. This was this team of organizers first time doing something that's big and and I think, generally speaking, pulled it off. You know, overall, I don't want to like give this a rate, but I would say I was overall happy with how this tournament was ran presented, you know, the professionalism of the staff and and and also the the quality of the opponent that I played. I personally had just really great interactions with every single opponent that I played. You know, no bad sportsmanship, no kind of negativity. There was one interesting thing that they decided to do, and I don't know if this was something that they just, you know, maybe couldn't fix in time, but one thing that I worried going into the tournament was that the reporting system for wins and losses and they opted to go with a loser reports that they lost kind of system. So normally you would think like okay, the winner would report the score because they have a an incentive to report the score right, whereas the loser might actually have an incentive to give the incorrect score. Right. They might be salty or they might, you know, just not think that they were beaten by a better player or, you know, the number of reasons that a player who lost my report that they actually won, you know, seems very high. So they made that that would actually be a demerit to winner reports, because then you would report yourself as the winner. Just putting that up. I guess you're right, but but I think I said I think there's a lack of incentive to report that you lost. Is More so like yes, yes, yes, there's a lack of incentive to report that you lost. Sure, because you could only report loss. You couldn't report that your opponent one right are you can report that you want in any case. Yeah, it was just really interesting to think that, you know, and I was a little worried about that because I was thinking like okay, well, what if my opponent just doesn't report kind of out of spite, right, because if we don't report in time, then we would both get a game loss, and so maybe they think that I didn't deserve the win and they would just not report and then they would be this whole issue. And thankfully that wasn't the case. You know, I didn't run into that. Whether or not that was just because, you know, I played some you know, people that would have known about the stream or whatnot, but or they're just good sports. You know, I didn't play against anyone that I had any type of issue with, and and that's really, I think, speaks to the quality of the the community. We just have a really great community here and Pokemon, and I think that's something that I'm really proud of when I bring this game up to people that are interested in it and people that are just getting into it and just like how good the community is. I think that was one thing that was on display. One thing that I didn't like was, and they solve this problem in day two, but just the time between rounds. In Day one there was an absurd amount of time between rounds. And again, not like a criticism, and I understand that there could have been a lot of variables. You're dealing with, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people, but the round sounds took almost double the amount of time that they were supposed to take. And again, I don't know what that really means. Was it everybody reported at the same time? Did they have to like do things manually? I don't believe so, but again, I'll give the benefit of that out. But that was the biggest criticism from day one for me is that the rounsers took way too long and they actually advertised that we would be done at about five o'clock eastern time. Started started about noon and ended about five. Will we started an hour late and then we ended around nine or ten, depending on if you went to the final round of competition. So that was a little bit of a drawback, I think. For if anyone's listening to this and they want to, you know, start their own tournament or they're involved in a big, big, you know large form community style tournament like this, I just wouldn't advertise time limits, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't give anyone an expectation of yeah, you'll be done by this time, because I think they're just a lot of problems that inherently arise when you're trying to put out an event like this. Yeah, that's a that's an interesting point, like just not even bothering to advertise the time limit. Yeah, it'll I mean it's on when they're whether as are done. Yeah, done, when it's done. Yeah,...

...exactly, exactly. I think that's actually a valid point. You know, I do want to, on the flip side, give props to the to the pop folks for developing a lot of interesting discord tool like creating a cool blot system that could track all this stuff, you know, wherever the bottleneck was. And Day One, you know, I I think it was at least a valuable endeavor in terms of like making these interesting mechanisms to make the tournament run more smoothly on the whole. So yeah, yeah, I mean I think I think a lot of what what happened in day one was that, you know, probably everybody was reporting at the end of the time, whereas in day two, you know, you had a higher caliber overall of players and then you had a longer time to report, you know, because there would be matches that would be done very quickly and you know that could get input into the system earlier. And so, you know, certainly there are just some inherent differences between what is being reported day wanted to but overall, good tournament. I was very happy with how it ran. I was very happy to have participated, I was very happy that it was offered. Yeah, so I actually have a question for you. Having having been in both day one and day two of the online global championship. Do you think in the online land scape specifically that it is better to do best of one or best of three, because the different days had different styles to them. Did you? Yeah, the best of one was was more suited. You think best at three still was like a better way to go about it. What are your thoughts there? Yeah, I mean best of three felt fine to me. Again, I think you could probably get away with since the online format is just really quick and efficient in certain ways in terms of like, you know, shuffling or restarting a match. You know you can get away with a lesser amount of time, I think, for for for that, like you, I think you could reasonably go down to like forty five minutes best of three in an online format, and then that's not I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. I don't think we've seen that yet for many online tournament but it's certainly something that people could try. Whereas, like you have that kind of pressure that you would in a in an in person setting to you know, scoop a game early if you're getting down, but you do have enough time, I think, in an online setting to finish three games in about forty five or fifty minutes, as opposed to the hour that we normally get in an online an in person tournament. Yeah, so, so, ideally best of one would suffice, just playing extra rounds. I didn't mind that for the first day of competition because you were just trying to get to a goal as opposed to having like the best, you know, ratio of wins and losses. So they play. I mean they definitely felt like two different tournaments in that sense, where like day one you're just trying to, you know, get to seven wins and you're done, and that day too, you're trying to be have as many wins as you possibly can. So I think they both worked fine and they were just used for different purposes. Yeah, not sure I quite agree with the verbiage there, but I agree with the you know, think I agree with the stead of it behind the boards. What don't you agree with? I'm curious. Just the way you phrased it was a little off to me, but I agree with what you mean. Fair enough. You basically said you're trying to get to as many wins as possible toys. Well, okay, okay, how can I rephrase that so that people don't think I'm an idiot? Um, you're just it's just a race. There's I don't know if there's a great way to I don't know if there's a great it's like it's like getting it's like getting it just wins on the board so you can get the benchmark versus trying to stand out as objectively the best. I think is like yeah, yeah, I mean like misplays don't matter as much in day one as they do in day two, because I was record. Oh, your record overall, and day one doesn't matter. Yeah, as long as as long as it gets seven wins. So you could be seven and Oh, and that would be just as good as seven and four or seven and three or whatever was ten rounds, I guess. And then, as opposed to day to, we're like, you know, you can't. You want that good ratio and the misplaces can host. Having the best of three will be more valuable, I guess. I mean it's like a ratio versus the final count. I think it's like what you're doing? Yeah, yeah, cool, yeah, I think on the whole I'm excited to see how these online championships continue. I really can't foresee anywhere in the immediate future any in person events, especially, as we said, before in the United States where, especially in the wake of colleges opening and bring back students like we got always to go. So yeah, absolutely, but I do want to take this time to plug that we are working on adding more to the online landscape. I've been in talks with Andrew Mahone and full grip and Riley about producing...

...some type of tournament for for people that want to play, because they're clearly is a lot of interest in doing this online format and and participating, and so look for that and the coming days something that you know, the the you know, another community outlet for Pokemon. Yeah, we spent a lot of time talking about that, any more than we intended to. That's true. Cool. Well, there's one last thing I wanted to talk to before we wrapped up season two of tag team, and that is post rotation. So we've we've hit the edge. Tomorrow, I believe, is the day of rotation on tcg Oh. So I just want to get a quick firing off of thoughts about rotation. Yeah, let's structure it a little bit. So what's your favorite thing about rotation, your least favorite thing and your number one deck choice after rotation? What's my favorite thing yeah, your favorite, maybe favorite thing that's leading. Yeah, probably, and we are just talking about how like intricate stall was, but probably just not. I mean just saying goodbye to our anger and what that does mean for alternate wind condition archetypes, because I think for the better part of two years, you know, our ranger was the kind of mainstay and a lot of these stall mill archetypes, these alternate wind condition archetypes, and so to see that leave the format is kind of, you know, I'm not one to be, you know, very antagonistic about alternate wind conditions. I think they're very healthy for the game, especially when they are as high skill as we've, you know, seen. But again, just to see it leave is is very nice. I think that card a broken I think our anger is a broken car. What about the thing you hate the most? So you go. Thing I hate to see go is probably probably Thunder Mountain. I do like the lightning support and I do think, you know, lightning doesn't maintain it's it's prominent place in the metagame post rotation. I think it does occupy some place. I'm excited to figure out what that is. But you know, the loss of Thunder Mountain and epower just really feel like a a big loss. Yeah, I've really enjoyed playing lightning decks since since those cards have been out, so it'll be it'll be sad to see him go. And how about your current choice, post rotation? Current choice? Well, we were talking about lightning decks, but I really have been excited to have Italian rise to the forefront. Yeah, I was. I was just saying how much I will miss lightning decks but at the same time they're absence. Telly on doesn't mean them at all. Yeah, exactly. So I'm looking forward to to Italian. I that was a deck that last format, you know, are, I guess, this current format, if we're talking, you know, pre rotation. I enjoyed playing it was probably my like meme, a rogue deck of choice, and I just really like putting a lot of time into it because I like the snipe, I like the energy removal or denial, and it just felt really fun to me. And so now, with lightning getting a little bit of a nerf should be able to compete. You know, it's had its biggest enemies kind of taken out. So to be cool, take it out. Interestingly, phrasing that from the knees. Bro Yeah, it's like take a big billy club and just so fuck. Yeah, yeah, it tell you honestly as a pokemon and tell you and got too much flat and tell Yan is a cool pokmon little snipe. Okay, he's a little sniper, man. That's it. I mean it's kind of I don't know if it if it's really in good taste right now, but maybe not. I don't know. You don't think of it like that. Well, I mean it's okay, and I digress. I. So, what about You, rally? What what are? What are the answers for you those questions? It's funny because my answers are probably just like the reverse of what you said. I'm stick a lightning support. I think it's awful. I don't think it was very good card design. Not that our anger is good car design, but I hate how much a pigeon holed the lightning decks ate, how much it oppressed anything that was weak to lightning. Because you are just you were weak to lightning like times of billion because of electric power, you know, like they played to electric powers. Extra hundred twenty damage.

Yeah, so like if you're a week to lightning, you could just be like rammed by some random like Pikachu and just tied. Yeah, so I didn't like that. I thought under mountain was kind of a silly card. Yeah, I think one of like cocoa or thunder mountain is fine, but having them both at once really just ramped decks up beyond. But I thought was reasonable appropriate. Yeah, sure, but I am sad actually to see your anger go. Okay, and it's not just because it mill dex. I thought it was like a very skill intensive card put a lot of it was a very thought provoking card, had a lot of interesting like uses, and I I just there's not like an immediate niche for alternate wind context, especially with Beloba also rotating or, yeah, I guess being banned. Yeah, suit or rotating. So I just don't know what like the future alternate wind conditions are, and I agree with you that like having some sort of alternate condition is healthy and it forces you to be like thoughtful about how you're building decks and what you're going to play against, as opposed to just thinking about like tight matchups and like bashing your skulls in against Another v Mac. Yeah, doing a lot of damage. Yeah, with the right type, and I expressed a lot recently that I am not really a big fan of having these gigantic emacs Pokemon just use these relatively vanilla attacks against each other over and over until one of them dies, and so I feel like it's a kind of unfortunate that we're basically nixing off all of the support for alternate way conditions. Yeah, sure, so, and true. I don't know if I'm more sad about or Angu directly as much as I am just like, there doesn't seem like a there's not like a route. You know, there's no there's no wacky smacky, as hard as I can tell right now, and that didn't play your anger. It's just a stall deck, right. So, yeah, I mean you look at deciduay being kind of the torch bearer for kind of stall but not death has to say prizes, you know, has to pull offensive. Yeah, sure, yeah, right, right. Well, that's all I'm saying is, like you look at that as being like okay, that's the future, but like the future is not very bright for that kind of death. Yeah, and let alone the fact that the drive probably isn't a great deck anyway, let alone the fact that yeah, people still enjoy sent to scorch for some reason. So you're going to just get bodied by the Vulcanians, right. Yeah, like I just I don't want to be caught in the situation where I feel like I just have to choose ATP or my favorite colored vmax. Yeah, and I feel like that's the situation. The game is getting pigeon holed down and I'm not really it's not like me so over at least upset that I'm not like excited to play the game, but it's just like it's less exciting to me than if there were. Right, it's certainly very it's certainly going to be very noticeable. Yeah, I think. And I think the other card that I missed the most is fiery flint, because I really like gave us Flon, and that's fair enough. I took was not very skillful, you know, there was a there's like some like sequencing with it. Yeah, like compared to like mill, you know, it was a yeah, or like stall, I guess more appropriately, it was the more skillful of the two. But right, you know, even then, like it was just a fun I really like David Cef on, especially towards the end of the format. I just ran the the stuff. I'm on the wall and I loved it. So Fun and it's still around, but it loses one of its most important I would argue, tools in fiery flint. Sure, and I don't know if there's an immediate replacement that feels that niche very well. So just another thing, im I'm sad to see you go. You know what are? What's The archetype that you're most excited to play, and I'm most excited to play. I just, like I've mentioned the past couple weeks, my favorite colored Vmax, which is a turn of this. I really like the dark type POKEMON. I always have. Yeah, I'm that guy. You're that guy. I've played. I started off the game playing dark I hypno. That evolved into turbo, dark, dark dragons. Then I've played Zorar. You play dark, right, Hipno, was your first deck? Yeah, the first guy ever built. Oh my gosh, yeah, I don't say. Yeah, I remember that. With that deck was like people were like, Oh man, this could actually be good. You know, got to get your hip nose. Oh my God, I can't believe that was the first one. Yeah, that's a how wow, that really dates you. I didn't. You're such a youngster. I am a youngster, but you know, throughout my entire history I went from sorry, I've note to turbo dark, dark dragons is our ourk and you know, the dark now with the dark is as returned. I even her. I even pushed for dark box, like harder than I probably should have to work. Yeah, yeah, and so I am personally excited for it. Turned it is. It is a dark type POKEMON which is sick. It is got a big old bench which is sick. Yeah, man, that's really my two criteria.

That's funny. That's really funny. Wow, dark, right, hypno. Well, as a time rally, let's open it up to the floor here. Dan had something that he wanted to bring up about the Dan Battle. So count the money and I had a Dan battle, which is something I advertise over on my twitch channel and dance where we play as many Dans as we possibly can and it's really just rock, paper scissors through the lens of Pokemon, tcg. Oh, and Dan crush me. Count the money. Just absolutely obliterate I was. I was. I swore that he was like looking at my screen, but I he did. He did for Al those right delay, like inherently? Sure, yeah, there's a slight delay. Exactly exactly? I don't think he was doing it because a lot of the times when I would press my choice, like it would be immediately responded to. But it was just absurd. I went like six and twelve or like five and thirteen or something, or just ridiculously. Look, I have been known to be kind of a legend in rock paper. Others talk about our Christmas RPS battle. I think it was like best of twenty one, and I think you beat me. It was like zero to seven or something. Yeah, yeah, like fairly, fairly handily. Yeah, yeah, that's a substantial lead. I consider myself to be good at RPS. So that only speaks to you your strength of care or and power. That's why I'm saying so. Anyway, and just like destroyed me, and I I'm not that salty, but I'm a little salty. I'm wondering if your power somewhat lies and like a real world landscape where you can you can have like your eyes digging into the right, right, right, right, you can read the opponent maybe a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, like that could be showering gun from Naruto and like you're reading the movements before they happen. Yeah, they could definitely be true. That could definitely be true, and I maybe it's just like the hype that I need, like I need an audience. You know, it just doesn't feel the same when I'm doing it over a computer screen. Yeah, now, with no one around me, should we do like a quick virtual RPS battle? Okay, ready, yeah, okay, rock, paper scissors, shoot. Wait, you just waited so long. I don't I didn't see what you had wait, but I got to the lake we're throwing on. Okay, I heard. Okay, ready, Rock, paper SCISSOR, shoot, I cut your paper Bro Oh, Dang, ha ha, scissors needs paperwork. Riley's one hundred in the tag team championship for RPS. I've I've lost my touch. That's sick, very sick. Fire, flame, zero and chat asking if I'm keeping my post pandemic hair. Probably, yeah, I kind of like it a little bit longer. I want to diet. That's my next adventure is dying. Okay, IT USOULD die my white bond. You should digest the bond just about. We've talked about doing like a lemon juice type thing, lemon juice. And Yeah, yeah, I would love to have like dirty blonde hairrisready's sick. HMM, I'm okay, okay, kill it. So well, Riley, we are coming to the end of our second season. Yeah, come a long way that we have. We have a lot of exciting things in store for the next season. Going to be changing it up a little bit, not too much, but a little bit. Going to be and some things changing up the look a little bit. So, yeah, just stay tuned it. It should be great. If you're listening to us on spotify, itunes, Google podcasts, wherever you your podcast, please make sure to leave us a review. That's really helpful for other people to find us. So if you like the podcast and you think someone else would like the podcast, just let us know, you know, leave that review and help us get the exposure that we need. Yeah, absolutely. So we appreciate you all. We love you as always. Thank you for the support through the first two seasons and we will catch you on the next one. Piece. See You.

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