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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 11 · 1 year ago

3-11. Darkness Aburnt

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys sit down to see off the Darkness Ablaze format with the conclusion of the first set of Player's Cup games and Riley's run therein. Come in and get ready for Vivid Voltage!

What is up everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert and I'm joined, as always, by my good friend JW crew. All, JW, how's it going today? That's going good. Rally, what happened to good, good friend, my bad man by bad? I'm just messing with you, dude. I'm doing pretty good. It was. It has been a good couple of days. I don't know, just spirits have been high, been feeling good, but awesome things accomplished, so it's been really great. And then we got a new set that's coming out tomorrow on PCCG, Oh, which I'm excited about because this format is, I would say overall, is good. We'll get a little bit more to it, but I mean, I've just played so many games it's expired, so I'm ready to I'm ready to freshen things up. Yeah, for sure. That's one of the great things that Card Games is they're always changing. So well, some card games trading cards and trading card games are you going games? Well, except out of print once those don't change like transformers. TCG is not going to change. Let's transformers TCG even fun enough to warrant keeping around? I heard good things. I'm not, I'm definitely not bashion transformers TCG, because I heard some I did hear some very good things about it and some people were very upset that it got canceled. I mean good game sometimes do die young, like it happens. I feel like if you're not, it's weird how unsustainable trading card games are. Yeah, I don't I think if you're just not one of the big three, it's just such a hard thing to break into. You know, if you're not the POKEMON, magic Yugyo, it's so hard to actually get a foothold. Yeah, and it's it just makes me wonder why, like what was the what was the thing in the early s that caused trading card games to really just bust on the scene and never leave in terms of those three trading card games? Yeah, I have no idea. Maybe we're do for a history lesson or something. Yeah, that'd be that'd be interesting to hear from from like someone who is who is in the thick of things back then. But yeah, I'm sure there's like a documentary or something we could find out there that would be pretty cool. Yeah, so if anyone listening knows, be sure to do your share. DM US on twitter. TAG team problem. We have twenty wild saying. I watched an interesting series on the deadly sins of TCG design. I have watched that be Oh really? Yeah, I watch all those. I will have to watch that. Yeah, and it talks about some of like the more blatant things like that you can do wrong and it TCG. It's really interesting, though, like one of the seventh at least sins that they call out is set rotation specifically for a new card game. So, like you know, if your pokemon or magic, having a set rotations fine, because you're established, you have a pool of cards already and you can work with that. Yeah, like starting off your card game and immediately setting their president of rotation is like one of the seven at least sins that he calls out. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah, so Super Fun. Anyway, though, in the pokemon world, we are in the midst of the Players Cup. We just had the qualifier happen in all of the regions and we've cut to top sixteen at this point. Unfortunately, I was unable to make it through, but my good friend Andrew Mahone, made it through with a very similar decklist to mine into the top sixteen playoff for North America. So very excited for him. Listeners, I okay, I just want to say for for Andrew, I mean it is pretty amazing the run that he's been I mean, if we can consider this still like the season, I mean I guess it within one calendar year. I mean he's had some pretty amazing finishes and I really hope that. You know, he was very close. He got second place at the like first Players Cup in that in that play in tournament for the the content creators and began invitational, the invitational, and so I do hope that he takes this one down. That would be pretty stunning. I hope at the very least he gets the top for to slide through into the next stage. You know, yeah, that would be awesome. I yeah, I adress. Really had really had a heck of a year, calendar year at the very least, if not a pokemon year. You know, he's did very well in the IMITATIONAL. He had a bunch of really strong regional finishes and it's funny because I feel like he is always what is that always. That is my heater. I know. Okay, I'm sorry, that's not we deal basement life. I feel like he's always super selfconscious about his performance in the trading card game, but really he's just blowing the rest of us out of the water lately. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, I...

...think, because his brand of content is more geared toward a casual player. But when you know, push comes to shove, you really does have quite a number of complishments, particularly recently. Yeah, no doubt. So. For the curious, though, I'll run through my players got very briefly. You know, I don't feel need to touch and every single round. Overall, I think it went okay. Obviously I didn't make it, but you know, such as life. I play peak rom just like I said I would on the podcast, and truly I think it it was a good choice for the event, at least in North America. Will talk more about what the different regions looked like in a little bit here. So I played a very straightforward peak roum list. I played for Hammers, no yell grunts, but maxed out on pretty much every single count that I could. Didn't really make any concessions. I had ten lightning for speed energy, try and help with energy removal. Kind of matchups. Be a crushing hammers of the Carl my metal. I've played the cocoa and the air balloon to give as many outs to switching as possible, you know, really trying to just juice up the deck as much as possible and frankly, I thought it worked pretty well for that purpose. I did prize three switch in two different games, which made the switching part more difficult than anticipated, but it was very fun on the whole. So I gotta Buy Round One, which is awesome. So, for the unaware, the way the seating work. They actually respected the seating of like you're finish in the D like the play in time, and for all the people who did, it was kind of weird. But like for all the people who didn't show up to the player's cup or didn't registered and spind a list instead of adjusting the bracket because they want to keep it the top to fifty six bracket. Instead, they just gave byes to everyone who was in that like top twenty something people. So I got to buy around one. That was super cool, except the fact I had to wait to play because it was just like really juiced up on the Saturday morning kind of vibe and getting around too, I'm guess, Lu Carl my metal. I was feeling pretty good about it. It came down to game three scenario, and my round two is also very bizarre. If you saw my twitter, my my opponent made the mistake of they accidentally like reported the match as soon as they got to the game, which was incredibly bizarre. So I had to call the judge three times to try and get that fixed. That was pretty wild. That whole saga was really well, though. It is extra frustrating and like I knew my opponent like really did not intend for anything that V there's no mouthfeas instare like they're an innocent person. But they made a mistake and I called judge and they weren't able to like fix it. So, instead of just sitting in this completed match, like, what do I do? And I'm I call the judge again asking like Hey, can we can we reset the gate like match, because what their original judge it did. So they reset the game. Scored is er zero. It's like that's fine, but it's still says I lost the like right. Of course they're still are. Yeah, so. And the worst part, though, was it put me in the losers bracket. So, like I'm midway through. So we call another judge. They tell us like yeah, there's we can't do anything about it. Can you just play it out and like we'll fix it after if, if something changes, like fine, but the problems. I was already the losers brackets. So like my opponent in the losers bracket like gets to his best stage of the bracket and he's like asking me if I'm ready to play and I'm like well, I don't know, I'm not. I don't know if I'm here or not. So, yeah, right, it was a it was a super bizarre situation. I was against the car on my metal. It came down really close. I forget exactly how the game panned out, but it was like it came down to like stamp draws on both sides. Yeah, and I ended up losing. So I did end up having to play. The person who was waiting on me for like half an hour free actually play my games. Yeah, I guess that was fine. I played against a couple of peak roms in a row, like two, er three, and they are all playing the Zul yell grunt no hammer version, which I do like that version and a lot of matchups. I didn't like it specifically for for like the peak on Mirror, though, actually, and because I thought having that extra hard removal was really good in the mirror. Yeah, and that ended up proving to be true, at least in my Prac at least of my practical experience, in the fact that I beat two or three of those Yell Ground Pika kind of Dacks. Yep. So really smoothly through there. Andrew was coming in and telling me now and then how he played another ATP and it was super well for him and he thinks the matchup super good. I'm like, yeah, I haven't seen a single one of those guys, like I'm just playing peak of mirror. result. Yeah, for sure. So at all. The peak of mirrors like it. They felt kind of close, but it I always...

...felt like I kind of had an edge at the end of the day. You know it, you know a mere inherently he's always going to be close unless you have a hard tech for it. But I always felt like I had an edge. Yeah, and so that went really smooth. I ended up playing Frank Persic in the next round. I didn't realize until after, but I saw my punt's name was frank P and on battlefy they didn't it didn't have like your real name, it was just you use your name on Tcg Oh. Sure it wasn't been like first it wasn't even the first name, last initial, which is your tcg Oh name, and frank's names happening. Frank Pe okay, and I'm like is that Frank? And he's playing a snay scorch deck, so it's pretty sure it was frank. But I don't think he knew it was me either because, like, we know each other and we weren't like chatting or something, votes or anything. I'm like, okay, I don't know what's going on here. I message of after it was in fact Frank. So good. So No, I guess. Yeah, that's funny. So we had a really, really close series. PEAKA versus Scorch is actually a really fun matchup in my opinion. Yeah, I won the coin flip so I got to go second on game one, and that was exactly what I was talking about last week about Sanday scorch is how you can you can control who goes first or second through the entire series on the coin flip, which is so bad for senny. And so game one I end up getting a really dominant board. Or No, game one, actually, yeah, I get a really dominant board really fast and frank just can't respond. Game so he completely blows me out of the water. It was insane. And then game three, I put the pressure on just really hard and it comes down to stamp draws on both sides. Again. I need him not to draw like switch boss, and I was in that exact scenario on game to actually, or I needed not to draw switch boss. Need you, switch boss. But this time he didn't draw switch boss. So is able to pull out that win. And then I'm thrust into the throes again of a Lucario me metal matchup, which really I don't think the matchup is that bad for the Kurma, especially with its definitely, you're definitely one of the people that you know you have a game plan for that matchup. Yeah, you execute that and then if you do that, then you're able to I think there's opinion at late it's like get through the matchup. Yeah, and so gave one. I completely blow the eye up. It was insane. Game Two was really close, but I just ran out of cards, like literally. Yeah, yeah, and game three was super unfortunate and it really sucks to have your players have run and like this. But I was in a situation where I prize my second bolt on, which is really huge in the matchup, and I also prized it was either my my last boss or something else, and so I was really digging through my prizes because my opponents started the Glaian stunt Fisk, which is really bad, and the peaker on match up, because you can just Ko that and completely off set the the seven prize game that they try to play, which is real. That's why, that's why I caught the Glarians. Got Done this whenever I play that that because it's so frustrating to me whenever you started the Games. So much for definitely, Yep, exactly. It definitely can so alter how your opponent can play the matchup, and so I had as set myself up really well to win, but I just wasn't drawing my boss, so I had to I had to concede a couple turns and my Bolton was prized, so I couldn't take huge knockouts, even though I had a lot of energy on the board and I got into a situation where I actually had like the solution for game in spite of all that. So I got down to one prize and I'd pulled the Bolton at this point, but there's no energy left to attach to it. So it was dead card. And what I had to do was I had a three energy p Kram. However many energy right you? I think five, because I'm pretty sure lightning ride that game. And I have another three energy P dram. So my plan was I was going to pull something up that already had damage on it, hit it with Rye Shue for another hundred, so it was going to go up to like thirty. I believe this is action. That's an active sure, and then I would have treat the right to again go into the other peak around that has energy and full blits it for like exactly a knockout, and I had that and I stamped into one as well. So I had this exact game plan that I was going to execute on and there was two flaws with that game plan, two flaws my opponent had. I think they had two outs as well, but their two flaws one for each out. I guess the first flaw was if my opponent was to draw a switch out, then I couldn't gust again and I would lose. The second out was I had one car left on my deck and it was a bolt on that I'd Marni the term prior, and so if they happened to pull up a POKEMON, then I also lose. So if they draw their last boss or switch, then I lose off the stamp to one. And they did draw the boss and really the worst part about that that was my lap, my one...

...prize card that was left, the stunt fist prize card was the was the switch. So I I just it was super frustrating. So as a last price scenario, to lose your players cut run on and that juste is so bad. I still had a lot of fun, but that's going to eat at me for a while at the crazy thing is I take my prize is in a really weird order on TC oh. I don't know why, but if you've ever like see me streamed TCG oor watching play on like discord, I take them like diagonally and then I take the middle ones. It's just like super bizarre, and so it's like if I took my pries like a normal person. I would have had the switch. That wouldn't that's you. I go like I go in like a crisscross. Yeah, I take top right, then bottom left, yea, and bottom right, then top left and then the middle ones. That's how I always take it. And Yeah, you know, heaven forbid that the switch was the last prize card. That right. So yeah, so that just sucks. It happens, though, as part of POKMON. So well, talk to us about the experience as a whole. Was it overall positive? You mentioned that there was that little bit of a hiccup in round number two, you said, where you kind of got, you know, Miss Bear. The opponent put in a wrong, you know result and it led to a little bit of a delay. Would you still say, overall, that it was very well ran? I would say it was decently wrung on the whole and a D snicks. It was definitely a good experience, I'll say that. So my opponents were all super gracious, Super Nice, especially like my loser's bracket opponent when I was dealing with the mishap, and round too. Like the fact that they were so accommodating and chill about it. As opposed to like heckling me, was just kind of Nice. It just made the experience a little more pleasant. Everyone I played against was really nice. Didn't really have any issues with like M or anything like that. Yeah, no, like no one is playing like specially slow either, which is something that I think is really frustrating online play, when people just time out all their actions. Yeah, so, and one thing, at one thing I did like was that this, so this is like a double a double limb tournament. So, you know, in theory, like because it's bracket style, like you could play your match if it's available in pure theory world, and they actually let us like play ahead in our bracket. O Good. So, like we weren't behold into the whole tournament, which was so nice. And like in a Swiss tournament you couldn't do that. And I mean as much as I think Swiss is like a better trading card game format, I think, given that we did have double limb, I like the fact that we could play ahead in our bracket. It made it run a lot smoother and people, I mean people overall, ran pretty fast. It was usually just like a couple games that were left. So why not? Let us just play ahead and so and so I guess like in theory it could lead you to having some weight time, especially if you lost later in the winners bracket, because the lousers bracket has to have multiple rounds catch up to the winners bracket, right. But you know, on the whole I think it was I really did like that aspect of it. The the whole discord battlefy thing is like a little hectic to me. It feels like we should have a system to that now, you know, because this limitless has their whole thing, and I'm not going to get too deep into this, but limits less has their whole thing and pokemons using discord and battlefy, which was a little strange if anything, but overall the handle it well. When the discord chat was opened, so for contact in players cut to there's a there's a discordy that you're invited to if you qualified and you got you got permitted to specific channels based on the region you qualified for. So I could only view the NATCG channel and at first they were trying to do like their players meeting announcements and they like unlocked the chat and so people were just spamming and stamming its family and like I almost feel like pokemon was just naive there and it's almost the fault of the players for just being annoying. But yeah, but like you should also have the foresight to know that people are going to do that when presented the opportunity. So yeah, I mean because this poor will post is trying to post his announcements and there's just endless see they're going to stick. People are talking about like Cheerios or something. Are Cinemas, toast scrunch? That's what that's what it was. They're all talking about cinema, the toast crunch, and it's just endless span and I'm like, Oh my God, and I'm like man, I'm tired, like I don't want to deal with nightmare. It's just, I don't know, I was just not in the mood for it. So it's really annoying. Yeah, that's really funny, but, you know, overall, good experience. I'm glad they're doing this. On the whole life. It felt good to be in like an official tournament and feel like I was like trying to win something out of it. Yeah, so I liked it. I would do it again. Yeah, I think it was a huge improvement on the first one in terms of the qualification, and I can't speak to the actual, like invite portion of the rounds, but...

I can only imagine that they've learned a lot of lessons with that as well and we'll continue to learn. Yeah, definitely I'm excited to see where, you know, if there is a winner or spring type event, you know even more improvements that that pokemon can make. So congratulations once again, Riley, on your finish. I mean it isn't an achievement to get there and then to you know, you did above average in in the tournament and you know there's only sixteen that's can make it at the end. So, yeah, well done. Well, yeah, I want them all. I had my scope set for going all the way, but I'm happy with how it went. You know, I was happy to that's all, honestly, I was. I was really proud of like my qualification period, which I know it's silly, but I thought it that was really fun. Now I think that's that's probably a better well, I don't want to say better, but it's probably you can look at it as being potentially a better marker for were your play, just in the sense that you have to be better for a longer period of time, whereas in the Players Cup you're kind of beholding more to the matchups in the sense that you know you can only lose twice. So if you hit two bad matchups or you know your neck doesn't work twice, like you're out of it, where as, opposed to the qualification period, you have, you know, at least fifty games to prove yourself. So clearly a big difference there. Yeah, absolutely. So we'll talk in just a second about the overall Players Cup Meta and how those top sixteen players are looking across the different regions. But before that I want us to do my car to the day for this episode. And for this episode I wanted to give a throwback to competitive staple of mine, which is decidual IGX. So in honor of the Players Cup and the spirit of competition, I wanted to talk about the first really competitive deck I got into. So decide you I gx was a GX POKEMON with two to thirty health. It well, obviously was stage two and at the time there was force some giant plants. So incredible card. If you don't know about it, you should look it up. It less your grasp bookemon of all the turn their played and Decidu I what it did. It had an attack for ninety damage to raisor leave. It also had hollow hunt, which was very good, which let you get a couple cards are discard pile as at gx attack. But the real reason you played decisual I was its ability. So it had feather Arrow, which lets you put to damage anywhere on the board and that was just it's crazy because that ability I don't think would be very strong today, especially on a stage too. But back then it was really, really good. And they're even decidua decks and the following formats that would play like rare candy deciduay all the way through lost thunder. There were deck that would do that just because having that extra two damage was really valuable in a lot different decks. Deciduay, though, it was originally largely paired with a vile plume. It's funny because I think a lot of people notice this Combo and built their own different ways of going about it. It was something that I had even thought about as a relatively new player and kind of needed about with my friends and they're like yeah, yeah, it's just this is too many stage two's to put in the play and I'm like not, I really think like to damage for turn for every decidual I plus vile flume just seems really good man's yeah. Yeah, and so that was something that I had built and then obviously much better versions of it were built and played at a lot of different tournaments. Sure, I played deciduay at pretty much every single league for that entire format. I played it all the way up until any I see where I played Zoroark and that was really the only tournament that format that I didn't play decidually. It was Super Fun, really thoughtful deck, yea, and almost the opposite of the decisional I we have now, which is like not a very thoughtful day test evolved and you winterally is right. I love that deck so much. It was so much fun and I now and it's really like kind of spawned my really competitive dry like I talked about my old days are played my dark right deck, but I didn't really go to a lot of tournaments until I started applying Decidu I and getting into my group of my friends so well, I think decidual as a perfect example of kind of routing and planning ahead with cards where feather Arrow misplaced. Feather Arrow cost games between our winner a lots and and that could happen on the first turn. You know, you could. You could accidentally place your damage on to the wrong pokemon on like you know, the first turn that you can get it Scidu I out, and that could be the difference. That twenty damage was exactly what you needed at the end of the game. And so DECIDUA IGEC certainly our card. That encouraged a lot of deep thought about matchups and damage placement and kind of goals for that particular game and certainly a card that you know, players had to really dig into to do well with. Yeah, it was.

It was just a blast. It was tons of fun and I continue to play decide I decks in other variants through other formats. I played this arc to SITUA DEC and lost thunder. I played nine tails decide you I decks in the earlier sun and moon formats. You know, I played the crap out of the card. I love it us so much. It's it's and of course, like the Arc Duy deck as well. At the whens Ark was first release that gave me my first players are my first leak up lane actually came from that deck, Whoa so cool. You know a lot of history between me and or arc and as a duy. That's awesome and actually even one more thing. One of my most memorable matches I think I've ever played at a local tournament was my second ever game against Andrew Mahone was a best of three Decidu I mirror when the card was first it was right when the car like was first released and we both are playing to drive outflet and had a really intense to situat mirror. I barely knew anentered the time but I really looked up to him. So it was a it is really fun series. That's awesome, Dude. Yeah, good memories, but not so time for memories because we got more players cut. So got a stick in the present. Jw, you got a bunch of data from a couple different sources of what kind of make metal we're looking at for the Players Cup. So why don't you run us through what that's looking like? Yeah, so, first of all, thank you to William Pierce and Alex Piney for the results that they gathered. The weird thing about this and about these results is that there was no like official results posted. So I hope that we are correct, but there's really no way to like check our sources in the sense that we don't have, you know, an original source to check. It's all just kind of like well, I made it to, you know, top sixteen with this deck. So in any case, we here's what we have. Regions of ANAOC and and Latin America. We didn't get Latin America's results in terms of the deck breakdown, but we also have Europe as well. So so Oceania, Europe and North America. Is What we have and it was pretty mixed. There were ten total decks that made up, you know, the top sixteens of the three regions, with the most dominant deck being ATPEZ. I think I asked myself why would atpez be the most dominant deck of these, and I just think that, you know, I was not that high on it heading into the weekends. I think you know, we talked about the this on the podcast last week where we yeah, we both kind of didn't feel that ATP was maybe the best choice, but you just look at the consistency of a deck like ATP and over the long haul, like drawing those extra cards with the Intrepid Sword on the first turn, like that's going to really just add up in the end. And so we don't know a total metal breakdown of what was played, but ATPEC certainly being that kind of consistent finisher, winding up in pretty much every single bracket, losers and winners in every region that we have data for. Yeah, the I think it really comes down to the consistency of it especial, actually especially, I think, in a double limb kind of tournament where really the goal is to run as hot as possible. ATP kind of fits the mold may be better than we did diticipated. Sure, sure, and I mean again, we don't know like where the numbers come from. So like if it was to hundred fifty six and you know two hundred people played Atpz, well then that makes you know a ton of sense that it was the most repence. Right, for sure. You know, I mean that that certainly isn't the case. But we have also showing up at number two a tie between three different decks, seven peak roms, seven at turnity is and seven Luke metal. Luke metal was an interesting deck for Europe in that five people made winners or losers finals in Europe with Luke Metal. Yeah, definitely. It seems like such a EU kind of deck as well, to be honest, if you can play in the game for a while, it definitely fits the mold of the kind of deck that would do well on you. I mean to me, what I see when I look across these results, and we could talk more about specific decks, is the top tier of decks has is firmly cemented as ATP Peeka, it turns in the car on that metal. Would you agree? I would agree. Yeah, you know, it's just reflect here numbers of it. I was shocked that Lucario me metal saw so much play did so I mean I'm not necessarily shocked that it did so well. I just figured that. You know, we were talking about how fire was on the rise and there were eleven total fire decks between the three regions in top sixteen. But I just kind of thought like lucaromel metal,...

...probably not a ton of people would would play it. Certainly it would have some type of finish because it it does generally do well against Adpz. It can hold its own, certainly against Pica, and then has a fairly favorable match up against eternity's, depending on which version they're playing. So I was kind of, you know, I was kind of seeing Lucario, my own mel metal, maybe on the on the down trend, but certainly showed up for for the Players Cup. Yeah, and I'm wondering if, because I even think the sunny scorch matchup is definitely more winnable than like the blasphalon match out. So sure, especially if you play like weakness guards, any source matchic can actually end up being pretty decent. Yeah, so I'm I'm definitely think that's probably contributing factor there, because we saw sny scorch and blounds really both occupied a similar space in terms of finishes, and Metwo is almost kind of a niche deck at this point, it feels like. Yeah, so we have five sent to scorch and for bliss cephalon scorching, Bliss Cephalon both the again, like you said, occupying that kind of welder fire niche. We had blounds that were pretty evenly spaced amongst the regions and then sent to Scorch for whatever reason. Mostly was a pick of North American players. So that no sprive me either. You know, kind of makes a lot of sense here. We look at the North American results specifically, there were four sent to scorch and only one Lucario Mel metal. We look at Europe and it's five Lucario Mel metal at once sent to scorch. So, you know, those kind of a are, you know, working kind of against each other as kind of being well, okay, if your region favors one, then you know, maybe you play the other or if the region favors the other, that maybe play. I definitely feel like Ana love sent he scorch. I I don't know why, man, I don't know why either, but I definitely think so. It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean it makes some sense. Sent to Scorch does have just massive health. Can you know hit you know any number? It takes it a while to get there, okay, and it's there are and there are certainly those endorphin producing first turns that you have right where you're going. Second, you get the Volcani. Now, you know, you get the sent to Scorch on the bench and you get the welder two and you got you know, you're sitting there with like six energy after the first turn and you're feeling like a God, and that is certainly that endorphin rush that you look at. You know why someone would play sent to Scorch, but for me it's just never, never been the deck man I feel like. I feel like we love run hot decks over here, to be honest. You know, the CEPHALON. I feel like it was a major, major player in America compared to other regions as well. Big With Cephalon, that is yeah, and this feels almost like a similar kind of niche where you can just blow things out of the water or just lose, for sure. For sure, Riley, kind of what is your takeaway here and what do you expect for the next couple weeks? Yeah, I mean I think. I think really the metal will continue to follow similar paths and the fact that ATP probably won't stay as extremely dominic, because I imagine that these players are probably a little more huge. The ATP matchup maybe have more text for it to make it this far. I'm guessing the ATP is probably the most played deck on the hole, in addition to also being the most played deck and our finalists here. I think on the whole, like yeah, a lot of these are probably make it through. I kind of worry for the rogue decks, the ones that have just one off representation, you know, getting through the gauntlet of these gigantic bohemoth decks seems really tough to me and double them format. But granted though, I think I think almost all of the rogue decks that we have are all in the winter side, if I'm looking at correctly. So we have four different decks that have one off appearances. That's firebox, wet me to ex could drill and see guns and yeah, those are all actually on winter side. So that's an interesting development. I almost wonder if that's mostly matchup. Base is decks feel like they have much more skewed matchups than the other decks on the some on this list so far. Sure, absolutely. I would be so curious to see what the what the wet mean? Two looks like the firebox looks like. Firebox was a deck at the beginning of this format I was pretty excited about. I mean it seemed to have a pretty good ATP Z matchup. You know, it could handle you know, obviously would have a really good Lucaro mel metal. It could handle some of the other decks. I mean you look at like Decidu. I could certainly handle a deck like that, but I would just wonder about its peak ram matchup. And you know, maybe even it's a turn it this matchup trying to hit up to those high numbers. But certainly those are two decks that, you know, you look at it like wow, you know, maybe maybe there was a little, even a little bit more to the format than...

...what we knew. Xicul drill, I have no doubt that x could drill was just a a product of really good matchups. You know, ex couldrill certainly does take some very, very favorable matchup. It's against a turn it to some peak ram and so, you know, I'm sure if we had talked to the x could drill player they would say yeah, you know, I probably. You know, I hit a ton of those on the way here and you know, I my one bad matchup bout. They did drew, you know for sure. But so, I mean I think it's an interesting breakdown. Like I said, there seems to be pretty clear tears of these decks where you have ATP Peeka at turn is Luke metal o dying that Tier One, the welder decks occupying it. Tire too, and then the rest of these are more rogue kind of dead. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, rally, give me kind of your overall thoughts of this format as we kind of wind it down. I know next podcast we're going to be talking a lot about vivid voltage and what decks we've enjoyed coming out of that set. So this is really going to be kind of our last podcast kind of discussing this metagame primarily. And so what's kind of a high from this metagame? What are some of your takeaways? What's maybe a low from this metagame, and are you going to miss it? Yeah, it's a good question and I expect you to also answer in turn because I think it's an interesting one. I think overall this format was okay. It wasn't maybe as bad as people give it credit for, but it wasn't great either. I think the fact that, and this might just be a product of the direction the game is going, but I just I'm really not a fan of gigantic three prize pokemon that or trading, you know, basically two a chaos, a different colors back and forth on each other. So it is what it is, though, I think in terms of like the actual decks, I liked playing them a decent amount, especially peaker on the car on Mel, metal does dex felt really thoughtful in their actions, at least relative to the rest of the format. They're really fun to play and I don't know, I actually enjoyed playing peeker on more in a post electric power world, because it felt like the games were just much less sacky. It felt like I had a lot more control over how my games were going, and I like that a lot about peak rom specifically, wasn't too keen and on playing ATP or playing ATP as the player or against it wasn't wasn't a huge attorney this player myself, but Pek Ram, Lucar on me metal were definitely some decks that, like, I would love to revisit in the future, especially like even against each other, they had really interesting matchups. So the high point for me is definitely is definitely peak ram. I obviously I played at a crap ton. It was Super Fun and, like I said, it felt like I had a lot more control over how many Kurram Games actually went in practice as opposed to previous for mats. I think the low point for me was just how centralized the metagame was. For a while around ATP. You know, ATP really just kind of took the format and ran with it, and it's just not a fun deck to play against because really and it's not a fun deck to play for me either. I don't know if it's band whether or not. You know, it's a hard call to make, but I don't think it's fun either. Sure, you know, it just has such a wrote game plan. You're trying to do the same exact thing every single game, no matter what you're playing against. Their snows really thought into the matchup at all. On your atd you're just trying to alter creation and gust or knock out something it's active if you can. And Yeah, that's just really fresh strating to play against because it feels like the Games are are really out of your control when you're playing at ATP, like the either they either get what they need or they don't, which I I mean in theory you can say about anything, but ATP it's a little different. I guess. I kind of would also add to that is like a card like mall while also is a card that contributes for me to kind of this unfun factor of ATPEC. ATP is the only deck that really plays Mall while and can really effectively abuse mall while, and I think it's something that we haven't really talked a lot about, but it certainly is one of those cards where it's like well, if you are successfully, you know, if you do hit a successful mall while on an opponent's, you know, to prizer and have to force them to put it down, then you win the game. Like you pretty much know you win the game like from that point and that that also feels really just dirty, kind of disgusting and takes a lot of the thought out of, you know, the opponent's decisionmaking. And like there are times where you know your opponent can try to play around them all while, you know, by quick balling away they're only basic or, you know, keeping it in their hands like a cherish ball instead of, you know, grabbing...

...the de Denn a or whatever. Do you know? There are certain ways that they can play around them all while. But then you have certain other cards that ATP can utilize to mess up that game plan. So Marnie and and reset stamp come to mind. And so I know that for me just recently I've been like man, mom while kind of sucks like you're kind of forced to play this people player in the sense that that's a really cheap way to win the game, and then if you're facing off against it, you're like, man, I'm really scared of this card that just kind of breaks the game I can't really do anything against and I mean that's how ATP feels on the whole, but even more so with a card like mal wow. Yeah, the and this one other thing I'll say about this format, and I don't mean to Ragonics, I don't think it was horrible on the whole. One of the thing I thought was not great about this format was the card pool is so limited and the decks that were dominant were so susceptible to it. That crushed stuff like crushing hammer, which is like a staple, not necessarily a staple, but just would be thrown into every single deck and you know, obviously I took advantage of that with a lot of my peak rom lists, but it doesn't feel like the game should be in a place where you just throw a crushing hammer into every deck and you know, sometimes I'll hit foreheads and just win a game off of that. Like that just doesn't feel great and I think that's really that really distills down my problem with this format on the whole. It's just the lack of agency and control that I felt when I played against Atpz, when there is a hammer that was played. It just that those were the things that bothered me the most, I think, even more than like if you removed ATP and hammer from the format, I would probably enjoy a lot more. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think a high point for me from the format was just that there were so many games that we are able to see. There were so many tournaments, so many results, so we were able to see that we've never really seen before in any other format in the sense that we just have all these online tournaments, we have all these, you know, new streamers popping up, like there's just so many results to see at any point in the format, and we saw that our format just really kind of figured itself out like maybe a month ago, and then from the last month on it's been kind of like, okay, I'm feeling metal today or I'm feeling you know, you just kind of picked based on you know, the builds were pretty much figured out, like everybody's generally playing the same peek list, everybody's generally playing, you know, within probably five cards the same ATPZ list and everybody's generally playing the same blown sent to Scorch, you know, and so it's just kind of Oh, how am I feeling today? How am I feeling today? You know, do I want to go with this or this? Like what's what's my taste, you know, and you're not really trying too much new. That said, there were a couple decks at the end of the format which I was also very ex surprised with, one of them being the MEWT Peka combination. Oh Yeah, collaboration. Yeah, that's why Ild the that was pretty cool. And then exchuldrill was a deck kind of at the late stage of the format that really just preyed upon some weakness, to be sure, but was something that, you know, you deserves to be in that kind of Tiar to like. Yeah, I would say. I would say like, relative to most immediately after rotation formats, there is probably an above average amount of deck variety in this one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that would be kind of a high point for me. A low point would I guess I would just have to go along with with your statement. I mean, I didn't feel like, aside from Peak Ramin Luke Metal, that I had a ton of control over the deck that I played, and even a deck like Atpez was like making me, would make me a little bit frustrated. I don't know, I had noxious but yeah, yeah, no, no deck. Really I didn't really click with any deck in this format. So I'm hoping that that changes for next format, that I can really just find a deck that I feel kind of at home playing. You know, I never really got that from this format and so that would be a low point for me. Yeah, I totally understand that. Well, what I will say is if anyone listening has a higher low point that they'd like to share, be a sure a tweeted at us at tag team pokemon. We'd love to hear your thoughts and maybe cover some of them in the next episode. But we've reached that glorious point in the podcast where we open it up to viewer questions or for reap up to the day. So if you're watching live now and have any questions that you'd like to ask about the end of this format, about the players cuff, about the beginning out of the vivid voltage era, be sure to drop those and we'll get to a couple of them before we sign off for the day. Absolutely so I'm going to be streaming the sad release tomorrow, that's Thursday the twelve,...

...over on my twitch channel, twitch atvl Flex Daddy Righteous, and I'm really looking forward to building some of the new decks. I'm particularly interested in the Toga Kiss Deck. I feel like that may I was thinking about. I was like, I you know, Peak Ram is pretty prevalent and you know the weakness is going to be something really difficult to get around, but you do have access to weakness card energy and you know Peek Ram isn't maybe like if you can dodge the beakram like, you're probably in a really good spot against most everything else. So that's a deck that I'm really interested in checking out and trying to build lists of. I've also really been harping on colossal. You know, it seems like that that can go a ton of different ways and certainly will be another deck that I'm going to put a lot of thought into and a lot of experimentation into. Yeah, so we got a couple questions in chat here. While it's asking have you guys paid any attention to the a Lola Cup events on a moon to cosmic eclipse format. I haven't really followed them too closely, but they see really fun. I think the sun and moon block was a interesting block of cards. Waview took a much look. No, I really haven't. I I think it's cool, though, that people will take these old formats, particularly this format, which sun and moon through cosmic eclips I didn't particularly love, but I know that there's just a either a nostalgia factor or just, I don't know, some kind of extra terrestrial, extrasensory like love that certain people have for this format, and that's really cool, because the more that you play a format, the more you can discover new things. I mean we're seeing it in this format. Like I was saying, there was just a ton of games being thrown in this format and we're still kind of figuring out Oh, you know, extra drill or peek around me, two decks like those can still be viable and there's still some things that you can discover even playing those older formats. So that is well, they interesting thing about some cosmic eclipse, Sun of moon and cosmic eclipse. It's never really was an actual format. Yeah, you know it's quote unquote made up, but it's the entire block of sun and moon cards, which my opinion is always the cards are designed around their block more than like rotation or anything. So I'm definitely it's something that's interesting to me. I just never really have the chance to to pursue it, but I think I think it's a cool idea and I think stemon had a lot of really cool cards in it. So sure. Absolutely got a couple of similar ish questions around vivid voltage. So I think they all kind of relate to one another in a way. So first is, do you think it turn it is is dead with colossal vmax coming out? Same for Pika by Zoro Dad the X. I think it turn it is. It's going to struggle a little less than PICA. Certainly colossal could find engines to get all the way to the OKO on it turn it is, then a turn is could also like counteract that by playing like big charms or something of that nature. I think pe Graham really suffers against colossal. It's just such a simple engine to get straight up okos on everything in the deck. I haven't tested a lot of the matchup headtohead yet. So I don't want to like hard fast say that Peka's dad or anything, but it seems rough, especially because colossal looks to be a pretty popular deck moving forward. Yeah, it's tough to say. I mean the problem that I foresee with a card like colossals that there's just no good grass kind of counter to colossal. So if there's no grass presence and there's no like hard check on colossal, then it very well could kind of run the format. We don't know. Again, like we have a little I'm more hesitant to say testing. And you know, at the end of the day, I mean maybe colossal kind of flops, but based on Japanese results, I don't believe that to be the case. But there's no again, there's no real good grass attacker out there. I mean really, boom, hasn't been a deck that's been viable. You know as well. Might Change your mind if you watch the latest OPO, the weekly match between myself and him. But you know, again, there's there's no real hard check on colossal. So it may just run wild. And I mean you can you could have said the same thing about a turn it is and a turn is didn't really truly run wild on this format? Did and feel like eat? Yes, okay, so then, what are the differences between colossal and eternity is, I think? Well, I think at a turn it is. I think colossal is actually worse poised than colossal. Or Yeah, colossal is worse poison a turn as sorry, because, like, okay, at turn is cause at least like damage things out of the game right where. And granted it probably has a class of probablys better like one prize matchups against those like Grind e one prize decks, but colossal doesn't hit like super high numbers, so at least on its first attack.

So I can imagine it struggling to like ramp up against say, Lucaro Mel Metal, HMM, and obviously, like the Dum zombis into as a factor there as well. I'm sure I could see it like not being great against ATP. I could definitely see ATP trading into colossal. Okay, so I don't know, I don't so this is kind of getting to twenty wilds question. I don't think it'll be metal warping to the same degree as at turns in Dragon Pul, but I do think it'll be very popular and will likely drive some decks at least down, if not wipe them out. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, like you said, like it turn it is does have some kind of counter to a colossal deck, whereas peaker Ram really doesn't. So yeah, see, how about? The worst part about peak ram is, like you know, you have to get like all sorts of Combo pieces for colossal to get all the way to kowing and to turn to this with the first attack, whereas against the peak gram or even a ride you like, even the stadium, without a boost Kos or I you, if it doesn't have a big charm on it. So that's pretty rough. Just a dormant asked. With the new set coming out, what Dex you think are going to be improved and what thinks what is going to take a hit with the new cards? We kind of talked about decks that would take a hit in the in the ones that are weak, the colossal sho have you here? There any decks of spring to mind for you as benefiting, like existing decks that benefit from the set? I'm really trying to think. I mean seriously, this is kind of a hard question. Yeah, because I think generally speaking, the new set isn't that game breaking? It's pretty pretty milked toast for the average and for sure not to spring. Yeah, I agree and I I don't necessarily think it's going to shift everything too drastically. So I don't know that it improves anything. I don't know that there's a card that I look to that's like Oh, yes, this is this is something that automatically goes. I mean there are cards that I look at that, you know, certainly could go, like something like Gerashi, like could go in many decks. I feel like it'll be probably pretty good in many decks, but there's nothing that I look at that is just, you know, automatic, you know, a thousand percent upgrade. Yeah, I'm I'm like trying to think of something that really truly benefits from the addition of this set that already exists. I don't I can't think of anything off the top of my head at least. Yeah, I mean you have things like, you know, a Lectro. Could electro could juice up some lightning decks? I guess I don't think it would really be that. Couldn't peak around with Speaker. I was trying to play down to one prize. So that seems kind of intuitive to me. Yeah, yeah, I mean you have something like Nessa. You know, Nessa could fetch you, you know, if you're a frost small style deck, like could fetch you the energy that you want out of the discard pile, you know, basically being like fisherman in the past, with a little bit more versatility. So maybe that's something that we look to. But yeah, I struggle to see something that's like Oh yes, this card immediately makes, you know, sense Sporting, the best I can form, I don't think there's anything quite like that. Yeah, the set seems very self contained, I guess, if I had to describe it, yeah, like it's good way to put it kind of just to exist and it's own little space. I guess Agis Lash. It could be potentially helpful will for ATP decks, if I mean even the Carl Momo decks, if decidual I sticks around. Obviously the sonic edge attack very helpful against those kind of decks. That's really really only thing jumping out of me. We have one here from Sorada. Do you think Pika players will switch to Muchu for the weakness? Probably where we'll see things going. If, if he grime does survive. It might be in that kind of it'll probably closer to that toward deck than then. What we're seeing now. Yeah, for sure, so awesome. Well, thank you all so much for listening and the live years for watching live. We appreciate the support. As always, you can check us out out on twitter at smiles thriles, at Real John Walter and at tag team Pokemon, and be sure to leave a rate and review on your podcasting platforms if you're listening from there. It really helps us out, helps us out, helps us out an immense amount. We appreciate everyone that's already left to review and you know, hey, if you want to sign into a new account, you want to sign in Doug's account, write a review from you know your aunts. That'd be much appreciated as well. But seriously, we do appreciate you. You're crazy, we...

...do. We do appreciate everyone here, though. You all are awesome and we will catch you next week. Peace. Say Y.

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