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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 31 · 9 months ago

3-31. Don't Snipe Me, Bro

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are back to discuss the latest and greatest in Battle Styles, such as Victini VMAX. But wait, a controversy loom... cheating?? Stream sniping?? What's going on?!

Yo, what is up, guys? Looking back to tag team Pokemon Trading Card Games Premiere podcasting duo. Myname is Riley Hulbert, joined as always by my very blurry friend, MrDave W creywall. Have you. How you doing today? Don't okay,I'm struggling and racking my brain. Is why I'm so blurry. Is So, so very blurry, so very I feel like it's getting progressively worse.I don't know. And maybe we have just switched like the platform and whichwe call each other. Yeah, maybe, or it's more. Maybe we haveto maybe we had the update the link, is what I was thinking. But that doesn't make any sense. But it does. It's like butmaybe, yeah, it's lame ends before loses connection over time. I don'tknow, man. Yeah, I mean, I'm down for whatever. It's justlook weird, just no skype. That's not a tough cell. ButI'm doing pretty well. Riley, how are you? I'm feeling good.I'm honestly, I'm really tired today. Havn't slept very well last few days, but that's that's on me. That's not me. You know, I'vebeen really into this book that I've been reading so I've been kind of readingit, and the problem isn't necessarily that I read it really late. Ifthat, my brain is still churning, you know, after the reading.Sure that makes it hard to fall asleep later. Sure don't talk about Ihear you. Yeah, because you're thinking like hey, how is how isGormand are about to make it out of this that you've read the book too. Yeah, I know, I've been thinking about it too. Brow.What's been going on in your world? Well, I have a massive toothache. That's not good. That is consuming my thoughts, my every thought.This happens about once every one or two years, where like I just likeI think it's like a brust gum or something, because it's it always healslike it's just I had the way for it to pass. So I havethis like vary in intense, like driving pain for a little bit and thenit goes away and then like we're fine for another year or two. Idon't know. It's some kind of weird did you ever watch that Halloween moviewhere the Goblin Gargoyle thing comes out of the corn field every hundred and sevenyears or something and then he prays upon the town people. Do you knowwhat I'm talking about? I think so, but I don't remember what the moviescalled. Yeah, and he's like big and he's got like wings andthings, and it's like it's like I'm trying to anyway. You guys canlet us know. Yours can let us know about what what that movie is. But anyway, that's what it feels like. It's this recurring nightmare.It keeps coming back. That's superm everyone to two years. It is reallyweird. Is Really Weird. So I don't know, maybe I'll just getthat tooth taken out and maybe I'll never have pain there again. I mean, as your dentist like said, anything, I'm like x Ray and nothing's comeup. Well, I mean it's it's definitely a tooth that has hadwork done in the past, like I think have any filling and things.So I don't know, maybe has something to do with that. I feelthat that APP a lot of time, like feelings and stuff. I knowwe didn't take good care of our teeth when we were a little. Ireally didn't, always eating ice cream and not rushing my teeth. I knowit's tragic. I think my parents did a really good job of teaching megood oral hygiene. My mom especially floss is like almost after every meal.I think she would floss in the morning and in the in the evenings.I know. That's all I'm saying like so I definitely didn't learn these badhabits from her. Rady says he thinks it's from the Charlie Brown Halloween.That can't be right. I think there's like another like live action movie thathas similar constus. Yes, exactly, exactly, but maybe it's Charlie Brownout of it is not great punk anything in the Great Pumpkin. Now I'Mgonna look it up. Okay, you...

...have me so convinced that I needto look up what this is. Halloween, Gargoyle in on busts. Maybe Iremember there's a bus scene Halloween fus. Okay, anyway, we can continueon. I'm going to look this up and then when I find ithalfway through the Pod, I will let you know and everyone will go that'swhat he's talking about. Pretty also says that he would never floss. Somessage to all of our listeners. Please floss at least once a day.It's good for your teeth, and brush them, if not after every mealat least twice a day. Otherwise I get lot the cavities. Young JWand Riley, that's right, we can pass on any wisdom to you inthis. It's I'm grown oral. Hi, team. Is there a dead istemporary relative to your teeth. That's true, true, so true.So, anyway, there is been a lot going on pokemon lately, though. I actually decent amount of stuff happening. So we will talk about stream snipingin the second half of the CAST, but we want to start off kindof focusing in on some of the recent results. And now the Metais shaking up with the addition of battle styles. So got a couple thingsthat we can take a look at here. Obviously, the full grip online serieswas yesterday. If you miss that, be sure to join the discord soyou can go in some of the future ones. I got it,but that it's jeepers, creepers. You've creepers, of course, first creepers. Okay, I just had to say it. All right, we're good. Let's move like you with it closed. That door. Great, then,while you're watching deep first creepers, though, what better way to pairwith that then playing a pokemon tournament so I'd be sure to check out thefull grip online series discord where you can get all the updates about joining thattournament. I'll put the link in the description for this episode. Yeah,absolutely. What I like about the tournament, then, we've talked about this before. It's just it's very simply run. So if you're looking for a tournamentthat doesn't take, you know, nine ten hours, this is thewhat for you. We had a lot of really interesting decks from last night. Riley. What was your favorite deck that you saw on the Stream?Um, honestly, I was. I liked a lot of the decks Isaw on stream. There's a lot of really cool ones. I think myfavorite one that ended up performing well is Andrew Wamble had just an incredibly smoothlist of single striker Chifu. You know, I said it for a couple weeksnow. I think single striker Chiefu is kind of underrated and over andreally fun as well. It's just like one of those decks is really satisfyingto play. And Andrew was consistently getting set up. He was in thegames that he appeared on stream. I don't think he was streaming himself,but like he appeared in a couple of opponents games. His decktors, isrunning so good it was awesome. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I actuallyhad an exchange with Stefan Ivan off on twitter just talking about his listand kind of where I was at with the list. And Andrew opted togo, you know, more with Steffan's list, which is great. Ithink again, it is a very strong list. I was really curious aboutthe evolution in sense. I felt like those cards in that list could havemaybe been great balls, like you're really trying to get out those hound hours. I was finding that was a big issue with the deck. If Iwasn't finding a couple hound hour on the first turn, then it was goingto make it really hard in the later turns to get a tack set up. But Anyway, Andrew had this list really, really, like you said, straightforward, contin consistent with, you know, Max counts of all theimportant cards, you know, the research, the Marni's that are no vitality,all maxed out there and did really well, like you said, tookit to a top eight finish. Yeah, and I do want to point outlike that evolution in sense is definitely...

...a little bit odd compared to likewhat I've been trying out. You know, I've been focusing more on like thecoms and the hit balls, maxing those out. I hate poke Coom, honestly, it's such a frustrating card. But one thing I do think wasparticularly interesting and I'm curious to see, like if these evolves or changes,is Andrews List was relatively light on the tower of darkness. That's somethingI really enjoyed like having in pretty high counts, like up to four sometimes, and you know, worst case you tower darkness, your tower dark anddraw some shards. I'm curious like if I'm over writing that card or maybeor maybe it finds its place in high accounts in the future when, like, perhaps what is it called chaotic swall rotates? Yeah, get a littlemore time, time to shine. Yeah, I think I think that's certainly true. If you're playing tower darkness into a lot of chaotics well, whichthat seems to be just kind of the de fact though, stadium of choice, then you probably aren't in for a good time. But yeah, thatlower count of Tower of darkness I think should be the norm in the future. I've had mixed results with it and I think it's just not a cardthat you're guaranteed to get an effect from with so many kid kadoks wells outthere. So, yeah, I'm genuinely gonna leaning factor there. Also frustrating, honestly. Yeah, it certainly is. For a lot of reasons. It'sa it's such a powerful card, but I really feels like you're learningthe hope of steady. Definitely. There was plenty of other decks, though, that were cool and did well. Spear Tomb is definitely making a resurgencelately with the addition of Escape Robe, and it's really cool to see likethe amount of damage you can build up in these spirit teams the spike mothin the escape robe so quickly. Yeah, absolutely, I mean that was thedeck that, yeah, kind of died out there when we lost theescapboard and then now it's coming back. We have more switching options in theformat, so it just makes a little bit more sense play it almost exactlylike how you did just now with those with those escape rope so very cool. Yeah, like you said, making a resurgence. I don't know thatit's necessarily the deck for me. I think it has a number of kindof if e matchups especially with things like dragon pull coming back into the format. But it certainly a cool idea. We also saw a an ATPS option. I thought that this was the most unique. I know you're listening tothe castor like atps option the most unique list, but for real it hadto ATP to Zostion and for four bronze on and the idea here is yougo second, you get a bronzong down turn one with the evolutionary ability onthat bronze, or you can evolve that Bronzeng turn one, get the energyon the board with the metal saucer, attach your Roora energy and all ofa sudden you have a turn one going saint altered creation, which is very, very strong. Yeah, I mean getting turn one altered you in asecond is is incredibly strong. I think they're definitely tweeks I would make tothat list. But the concept of it was super cool and I think oneof the things that's underrated about the Bronzeng, not saying necessarily a bronzng, it'sdefinitively the way to go. I think it's still us to be determined, but one things I really like about it is I'm after you altered,you can just immediately get the energy off the ATP if people have swung intoit. Yep. So you know, a lot of these decks their strategymight be to hit into the ATP. You know, if they can't reachthe two hundred and eighty, they'll try and hit into ATP right when italtered and then if they attack, then their guaranteed to take prizes. Imean it's kind of removes that as an option. Yeah, it makes itso much more versatile. I really would encourage all of our viewers to getsome reps in with the deck because you'll be surprised at how much different itfeels the normal ATP. I normally think of ATP as being generally a smoothdeck, but you know, we all kind of know how it can kindof clunk up with energies, especially in the Mid and light game, ifyou just don't draw into your metal saucers and you have energies and places thatyou don't want them and they're kind of useless, or you have the discardtoo many energy and now you just don't have an attacker to build up.And this list completely negates a lot of...

...those weaknesses that ATP had. Nowyou're you're trading in some of those extra spicy cards for just consistent bronze onlines, but I think in a lot of ways it improves the deck andmakes it much more potent. I would be surprised we don't see the Dickpop up more in the future. Ring from the mouth, hi TDP's on. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We had another deck coming in at secondplace, which was the rapid strike or Shaffu Vmas, playing it with DragonPoult and actillery, which I know we were just talking before the cast thatwe are saying in a lot of these rapid strike decks people are going awayfrom actillery, maybe playing a more GERACCI team up focus build. I personallylove autillery. I think it's not getting enough credit, but certainly I understand. You know, people are playing with Racci because that feels very similar tothings that we've seen just, you know, a couple years ago with that ZappDose Geraci Deck. So any thoughts? They're on either the list or justkind of rapid strike dragon poltse in Jeah. So this variant of draggedpole has kind of been floating around. I've seen it in a couple tournamentsI've played against it online. Seems like a lot to set up. Idon't really like how thin you have to make your various lines to accommodate allof these stage ones. That said, I the Dragon Pol or she fooddeck is really kind a potent. It's it's a little tough to deal withjust because it covers so many weaknesses. The only problem that deck has isit, when it's not hitting for weakness, it's damage can be kind of lowright. So if they're against them, you or against the deck that willthreaten one hit chaos back on them. That's when you see that that kindof struggle. It's I also not a huge fan of the drag ofBul variant, just because the energy counts get a little weird. We talkedabout this last week as well, but finding the right balance between like aroars and horrors and fightings and basic psychics and and all of that is justa little bit messy. But I do conceptually like the idea of paring draggedbolt and or she and I think if you're going to do that, despitethe fact that it's just a stage ones, actually does add like a level ofconsistency that I feel like a variant like that kind of needs. Sure, sure, absolutely. No. I mean, overall, I was there'sa lot of cool decks that are coming out. That said, though,there's plenty of mainstays that haven't faded away either. Before we get into those, I do want to quickly call out victiniv Max as really even popular lately. Wasn't as popular, I think, in the full grip on line someof these other tournaments, but victiniv Max is everywhere, everywhere right now.It's all over the ladder, it's all over these tournaments. It's crazy,all right. kind of called it. Yeah, I mean I'm just justsaying, just saying. I kind of did say that it was one ofthe better cards and I did advocate it for it to be in our topten. So now you're right. You're right. You know, I thinkthe one area of a teeny struggles is the same one that I argued foras well. It's the way is against those G X is. So youhave to find those ways to deal with them effectively. In current format youhave all sorts of great options, though the prevailing build a Victini is reallythat mewtube based build where you have the Mewtwo, the Reshi's are potentially thefamilies are that does the three hundred first gas attack and then using that totwo or three two fifteen ev Max line to deal with The v Pokemon Ijust said. I think the strength is just a so versatile and it useswelder so well, also being able to leverage like other draw supporters. Soit's not like a tempo zard or needs to water every single turn or elseit will lose guaranteed. It's you know,...

...it's just victini or where you like. You can attach, attached and boss in the first two turns,or you can Walter and like build up these really big threats. Well,that's the thing too, is like this deck is great in the sense thatyou can get up very early in a game and then, if you findyourself not hitting, welders, like welder de x tend to do, runhot or cold. You know you can go ahead and spread flames once,maybe twice again. You built up this big advantage early right by knocking outyour opponent that had, you know, there there v on the bench thathad a had an energy attached. Okay, if it's against a turn, itis right. You get yourself an extra turn. So that's when youcan start to spread flames build some things up on the bench. Like itjust all works out very, very well right now in the format. AndYeah, I'm certainly happy to see vic tenv Max performing well. Yeah,and I think one of the strengths of Victini. Honestly, I kind ofconceptually put victind MACs and the same bucket as like ATP's Otion. The differenceis, you know, ATP's Otion is gonna Attach Gx and then attack twiceto try and win, whereas Victini bill attach and then attack, attack,attack. So still taking about the same amount of turns in their ideal gamestate, but the tiny it attacks more times, whereas attz attacks, twitson and takes more prizes. Sure so. Honestly they're very similar, though,where they're trying to like boss up your vulnerable pokemon and pick them offor just a explode the active though. Sure that's that. I think itfills the niche very well. The one thing that's really frustrating the Tini isjust those vgx's. I mean, even with all those options, like staringdown at Peak Ram can be really frustrating for Victini. Turned down at theDanny Gx and be surprisingly frustrating for victin ev Max. You know, andlike you see this. You see this in this online tournaments. You seeit in the Champions League. You saw it all the time where people wouldjust like leave a Dedenne up against victiniv max for a Ti and they couldn'tdo anything's good, which is just, I mean a right really get swingin for a hundred and twenty. But yeah, I understand your point.Like you're not on shotting at today, which is really sad. Yeah,I mean the thing is that kind of deck like swinging for one hundred andtwenty. What is it? Are you going to do with it? ToDanny with one twenty on it? You got a boss it up later inKo. It right, exactly, exactly. So it just feels goofy, butit does put a ton of pressure. The point I was ultimately getting atis it puts a ton of pressure on that's that are starer to setup. I think it's a really valuable trait to have in this format andgeneral and like generally in Pokemon, like funishing your opponent for inconsistent setup isjust like such a tracy strategy. Yes, I a hundred percent agree and it'sit's the kind of deck that it doesn't mind going first or second.I don't think you either right, like you go first, you attach andthen on your next turn your gust, you go suck it. You maybehave some more or welder plays or you have some, you know, energyacceleration via VIC TINV and so there's just not really any punishing there as wellwhen you're talking about which position you go. So I think that makes it reallynice for kind of a longer tournament where you're not focused on, okay, I need to go second because I need to get the flare starter off, or I need to go second because I need to get bolts on.Like you can go first or second and really have good results either way.Agreed a hundred percent, though. Lots of cool stuff with the tin evMax. I. I mean I'm curious to see if there's like new directionsof the deck can be taken or new ways that people can buy the card. But I mean right now that me too, version is on a rampage. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's talk about some of the other topperforming decks. I have the Hester season three number forty tournament up on myscreen right now and it's just a lot of surprisingly, a lot of thesame. We're seeing a lot of Lucarioma metal, speaking of like fire decks. Now we have kind of the polar opposite, Lucariomel metal doing particularly well. Pe Kurram is still surviving. I...

...don't I don't know, man.We keep pronouncing it dead. It keeps doing well, certainly on the backof mew two to counteract those fighting type her Shaffus, and then things likeDragon Paull, things like ATP a turn it. This is still around.I mean this kind of feels like a lot of the same with maybe alittle wrinkle. What do you think attributes to that sort of metagame that isa lot of the same with just a few new decks sprinkled in? orwell, I think of these decks? Honestly, the CARYOMEM AD AL wasthe one that I think ended up being hurt the most by the new set, just because the TV Max really doesn't number on the Caryo mom at all. Honestly, it's really tough to deal with. The thing is, though, that Lucara Momenta has really good matchups across the board outside of Victiniv Max. If you're able to dodge it. You know, you hit it oneround and then you play other things the rest around, or, like alot of these online tournaments, you can cut it x too, as theJournalo IDs, or they cut like top sixteen. So so you would actuallyare now met all like they hit around or two of fire and then theyjust beat everything else or like take good to good even matchups against everything elseand they just end up cutting and they continue doing well. So, Imean I played a lot of Lucario no metal like on the ladder recently aswell, and honestly, once you're not in those fire matchups, it feelsjust so good. Yeah, sure, sure. And I mean even whenyou do get in those fire matchups, like the Victini decks, don't theyhave a lot of room to play fan of waves or their own guarantineas orthings like that? So those coding metals can actually stick around. I meanit's not unheard of for a Luke metal deck to take down a vict yeah, I mean it's definitely not like a hundred zero. It's super unfavored forsure, but you can definitely get a coding metal to stick and goods IMSin to play and end up pulling it through. So I mean the Parammentotisis a lot of staying power peak ram and it turned this. I thinkthere's two factors there. I think first off, the fighting decks maybe weren'tas potent as we thought they were, both in rank and quantity. Soyou know they're not super heavily played and both of those decks kind of haveways around them. So you know, you see the attorneys decks playing theweakness guards energies which, honestly, if you're playing one of those fighting necks, can be really frustrating. You don't have like a fan of waves orgear teenager remove that. Sure you know, it feels like it. Turn iskind of has the light up on you. And then he gram obviouslyhas the mew two, which you alluded to earlier, and I think peakgram also benefits a lot from not only just the mew too, but thefact that the stamp paralyzed strategy that they utilize and peak ram is always goingto be effective no matter what matchup you're against. Ram Is still, tothis day, like the best user of reset stamp. It has the mostplay options available to it, though in a way, I mean we thoughtpe Kuram would maybe struggle, but I think you know, leading more intothe mew to finding new ways navigate the matchups and leveraging your reset stamps,like can you can get through so many situations that way. Yeah, yeah, I think one thing that has been interesting about peak ramast I haven't beenseeing a lot of people play fan in their peak around list, which Ifeel like it's a mistake. I haven't played peek around in this new formattoo much, but I do still see a lot of a team yel gruntand I kind of wonder, okay, why would you play team yell gruntwhen you could play, you know, guaranteed card? That's a that's anitem you obviously there's, you know, counterplay right where yellow ground does workon basic energies and fan of waves doesn't, but I just feel like that's anobvious kind of I think one energy is that my Grama is most concernedabout removing aren't the specials, though. You know your most concerned about thedarkness energies on the eternity. Is Your...

...most concerned about your water energies orthem or the metal off the ATP now, granted, the ATT plays Aurora likefamilies or but in my mind, like the matchups for the y'all groundmatters the most. The Fan of ways won't help you. And there's alsothe fact that aldagoths y'all grunt is like such a potent play as well,going for durant or a couple tourture. I would just say, you know, eternity, this is kind of on the decline. It had this really, you know, large explosion towards the end of the last format, Iwould say, and now it's, you know, kind of receding. Stillthey're still popular, but I just don't really think that you need to techfor that. And the fire decks, I mean you know you're going towin via some combination of you know that the hammers don't really matter anyway tothose kinds of decks, or at least they're not that significant. So justsomething I've been think about. If I played peak around this form, Iwould definitely look to include at least one fan of waves in that team.Young Grunt Slot. Yeah, I mean I guess I wouldn't really consider ita suitable substitute for like the role that yello grunt fills. If I didthat, it would be more so because, like I just wanted extramoval like anaddition to yell ground drolly, like I play a one yell grounds,a one fan for or. I just don't see like the need for Y'allgrunt in the Meta, but I want to have like a little extra kick, so I play a way. I think a lot of people were playingspecial energies. I mean, I'm trying to think of a deck that doeson outside of like a Vic Tinia deck, but maybe it isn't that big ofa deal. Yeah, I mean, you could definitely hurt your your Lucario's, but I don't think that many of the ATPS are on like aroarer bronze on yet. So I think ATP is going to be the deckthat you really want to yell rap back. Yeah, for sure. Any otherthings that you're seeing from the hegster or just the tournaments in general thatyou want to point out? No, I mean, honestly, battle stylesis kind of rationed up the format in the in exactly the kind of wayI would have wanted it to, where the decks that came out of itaren't just steam rolling everything, but they're powerful and they've like they're suitable andtheir tournament contenders and they're really fun as well. So, you know,I like to see like the previous decks continue to survive while also being anecosystem where new decks are introduced in there, for I think that's like the bestway that a set can go. Yeah, I think we're going tolook back at this set and be very, very impressed with the set designers thatjust were able to make something that's new and fresh and good, youknow, certainly rapid strike and and honestly single strike making a case for being, you know, a viable deck. But I think we're going to lookback on this format right now and say, yeah, this was a very,very healthy metagame. A lot of different options that people can go alot of different metagame choices that people can make, a lot of different textsthat people can play. We're seeing a lot of Muse we're seeing just alot of, you know, unusual attackers. I think it's some of these decks. So it's really cool to see. Absolutely absolutely. I mean, doyou have any other thoughts on this Meta for me close after this.Okay. Well, I'm really surprised to how much me too is being played. Actually, that deck just didn't see a lot of play. With theturn it on on the rise again in the last format. So it's reallyinteresting to see welder me you two just come roaring back. Is One ofthe most played decks in the in the that last Hester tournaments. So prettyimpressive to see me to being able to contend with some of these. Justoutrageous. Vmax has absolutely I mean, after had such a rough time versusthe turn, it's it's really cool to see him come back. Yep,Yep, awesome that. Let's off years then and talk about the car ofthe day for today. So for today's cart of the day, background story, as I always do, from my part of the day. So theother day I had a friend over and...

...they live in the same apartment asme and we were watching some shows and I wanted to show them my binderof Ratis because I collect the RAALT card, every single print of Rallot I haveand the prize vallet right now is the shiny no I, although Idid pull the shiny from a pack, which was very cool. Both copiesof my shiny rallots are from packs, which is really a cool yeah,the the prized Rollot, in my opinion, is the scream art rollot. Sothere was a collection of cards in Japan, Rallot being one of them, that were based on kind of different artworks, and the Rollot one isbased off the scream so raletts all twisted up, he's got the face on. It's just such a cool card. It's nice like full art and it'sjust awesome. I mean these are the kind of promos that you wish wewould get in the states. Sure, but that route is just so fun. I mean it it takes that like it just draws attention to it,like when you book the The roulet minder, like that's the one that you wantto look at. Sure, and it's just so cool. Like Ilove those kind of like artistic promos that that Japan gets. Honestly, ifit was like more reasonably price, I mean they're not super expensive in theat the end of the day, but, like you know, if I couldlike go down to the store and get something that would contain one ofthose are get a promo from some event, like, I would definitely do that. They're so awesome, though, Hart, the day to day isthe screen rallot. There's plenty of other great rolets. I think my secondfavorite one would be the one in the backpack. You know what I wantto talk about? Ye, I do. Yeah, the backpack Rallot. I'mshout at the Shawan Line and for helped me get that one. Sorelish is not start first, Berea llots really cool and you should check itout. If it's your first time hearing about it, you should just lookat that whole collection of cards. They're really awesome. Great Card of theday. But shifting gears again to our closing half of the day, wegot to talk about what's been going on in the tournament. Seen here we'renot talking about results. So the other day a scandal came up where someonewas allegedly caught stream sniping. That person ended up being I don't know ifthey're disqualifiers, got a double game lot. They end up being out of thetournament. After the evidence was presented. This caused a lot of discourse aboutyou know what is appropriate with regards to enforcing of rules when it comesto stream sniping, who it is the owners of responsibility fall onto to preventstreams thaping, and honestly, JW and I were starting to talk about this. We kind of just stopped ourselves because we wanted to kind of talk thisthrough. You live the JW. I just kind of want to open upto start with, like, what are your thoughts on the situation? Youknow, where do you think we need to like look to improve or changeour procedures to make sure things are flowing smoothly? Give me like your generalspeel here. Absolutely, I think that it is any time that we catchsomebody cheating. And again, I wasn't I didn't have first hand account knowledgeof this. Happen, happens. Stance, wow words tonight, but I thinkthat, you know, any time that we see cheating, it hasto be punished. I think that anyone would say that in a competitive environment, whenever someone is gaining, you know, on unusual on and you know,intended advancement of the game like that, in a way that that could bedeem cheating, which I would imagine that you know, being able tolook at your opponents hand would constitute that. So if someone is doing that intentionally, that you know should be should be punished. So the question becomes, how do we deal with the going forward? Is it's something where how, like, how can you prove that somebody's cheating. I think that's oneof the silliest things is like to be...

...caught cheating in an online environment.Means that you have to make yourself publicly known, that you're in the streamof the streamer, and so it just seems like the silliest thing for aperson to ever get caught cheating. You know what I mean, right,like go incognito mode. Yeah, yeah, like go incognito mode, make aseparate account. I'm not saying I'm not advocating again, just like don'tyou're me wrong. No, I know what you mean. I know whatyou mean. It's like how do you catch someone doing this, you know, yeah, if they're like doing it reasonably. Yeah, not posting achat, like not using the user name. I mean even if they have theirown user name, like if you don't know about it and don't checkthe viewer list. I. Most people, I don't think, have their yourlist open old time, right. You know, how do you evencatch that? And I think it's a valid point. I mean even withinthat like just because they're in your viewer lists, that mean they're actively lookingat your game? Are they listening to the commentary? Toes that count?Are they just looking at the chat? Does that count right? Right?Are Did they make? I mean, and the other thing too, islike did they make kind of a suboptimal play that maybe was optimal in thatsituation. I could think of one where would be like, did they playa reset stamp on turn one, and did they do it because they knewwhat was in your hand, or did they do it because they just wantedto play that card for some other reason or they just didn't think about it? or I mean maybe a Miss Click or something like that. But youknow, how do you how do you police that right? So, andI largely agree with that. Like I think conceptually, you know, ifyou're caught stream snaking, you should be punted for that. Like that is, by the books, cheating, like you're looking upon his hand. I'mpretty sure in the players cut rules and regulations that even mentioned something about streamsniping. So the president is there. It's definitely against the spirit of thegame at the very least. By how do you have someone doing that?And the I don't really have a good answer for that. Like I thinkeven if you provide all the best evidence you can, at the end ofthe day. It's still like kind of anecdotal, I like a he said, she said thing and without like having almost like a screen share for everyplayer of a tournament being monitored by a judge. It's like you can't dothat. Yeah, you can't like manage that. Yeah, and it bringsup like larger questions, to which I don't want to get into all ofthese today, but you know, the online environment kind of like opens itselfup to some of these like almost like on accounted for, I guess,like cheating methods. You know, all the time we have people like incalls online, like you know, with their friends like talking through all theirplays. Like does that count? Is Cheating? Not necessarily by the rulesof the tournaments, but like would you ever do that in real life?Like obviously not, and that's I think. I think too. I mean thatbrings up a point to about the people that stream right and saying,okay, well, if I watch chat, is that getting it advantaged because I'mgetting more input, more waste? Or like what if you're what,as you're playing as another streamer and your cat goes into that stream and tellsyou things? Like it's so difficult to like pinpoint this and like really drawthe line. I think at the end of the day, like streams,I think is an active action, like you're taking a specific choice to gainknowledge that you shouldn't have otherwise. So in of itself, I think streamsniping is obviously cheating and should be punished. It's just how do you ever monitorthat? Is just so difficult. It's super tough. So then theconversation's kind of spewed off of that is, you know, where does responsibility liethere? Was that lie with tournament organizers to try and prevent it,or does it lie on the streamer to kind of guard themselves from that harm? You know, do they put a hand cover? Do they they havea delay? So what are your thoughts on that? You well, it'sreally tough as a streamer right where your content should be the most important thing. So when you're telling me that I...

...should have to change the content,like I as a streamer, I'm trying to grow the game by streaming thegame right, either consciously or unconsciously, like I am promoting the game,and so if you want people to grow the game, then you know obviouslythe way that you do that is to play with and you know, asopenly as possible, no delay and no covering of any kind. But,like you said, that gets into some tricky situation and where it's like youcould sacrifice the content that you're producing in order to save yourself for being streamsniped, or you could open yourself up to the possibility of being stream snipedand have arguably worse content. So it's it's really tough as a content creatorand I really feel for someone like someone like a zool or Andrew, orI mean really any content creator for that matter. But just like, especiallythe people that make the living off of playing online, where their content isthe most important thing, you just really are kind of handcuffed and what youcan do. Agreed. I mean my take on it is is pretty similar. I think. You know, you can't tell the content creator likes.I don't know how exactly to phrase this, but you can't expect the content creators, I guess, to shift the way they are producing content as toavoid sniping. But I think it comes down to you know, what doyou value more individually? Do you value your, I guess, sanctity ofyour tournament run and protecting that, in which case I would almost say,like just don't even stream it at all if that's like the most important thing, because even with a delay like there's information that can be clean and youcan learn about price cards, you can learn about even the hand, Imean the hand can stay the same or like just build up for a coupleminutes at a time like a delight. Isn't fix the problem out right.A handcam does kind of fix things, but I would also say like tothe viewer, Handcam is really frustrating. Honestly. It's like visually is unpleasing. It's, you know, kind of takes away from the experience because,like, I mean, you don't get Josn't like that excite his wames.Like if I can't see your hand, what am I even watching for rightexactly? So I don't know, it's kind of weird. I will shiftthe conversation once again. Is there anything that could be implemented in the game? Now, I'm not that particularly well versed in any of the other cardgames or or any other strategy games like online that would have any sort ofanti cheating measures, but is there something that pokemon, the guys that Direwolf, could do to prevent or at least help prevent any sort of cheating whilestill allowing streamers and other content creators to produce that content on a real timebasis. I don't really think so. I mean, in these other cardgames like hearstone, obviously huge online environment, they mostly use like the combinations ofdelays and hand covers, and I think if blizzard doesn't have the framework, then I don't see dire will having either. And that's not even justa slam on direwils jabs. I just think it's like a huge ask.Yeah, yeah, and probably intrusive one as well. Like it, theywould need to have more access than maybe them to write. So I meanno, I mean I think at the end of the day it's kind ofwhat I was hearkening at, which is you have to make that choice.Like is your tournament run? I think matters more to you or your content. I think for a lot of these streamers, the answers the content,at least for some of these like smaller events where, you know, likefor a heaster, for packs, like maybe they don't care necessarily if theyget snipe comment. It's more important to this like enjoy the experience with yourviewers. If you're in the Players Cup finals, like maybe you don't streamthat because five grand is on the line. Yeah, and that's more important atthe time. I think those are...

...just like maybe you just record itfor later and like bad review or something. I think it comes down to theindividual event. But I don't think as well, I'm a lot ofthe discourses seem to focus too much on like where does the responsibility lie?And like, obviously the streamers are making choices that make them vulnerable, butthat's just it's such a bad mentality, I think, to blame the streamerfor being sniped right, like obviously they didn't make their stream the most secureway possible. But I don't think it's analogous to like leaving your house unlockedor I mean, I think that analogy is almost more comparable to like,you know, going out in like skimpy clothing, right, like it's Imean it's absolutely victim blaming to say yes to the streamer, like you shouldhave blocked your hand. Like that is victim blaming. At the same timeyour you are you know, I think you can have these simultaneous truths,right where you have yes, yeah, definitely been blaming to blame the streamer. So, like the a hundred percent of the onus is on the personthat is doing the stream sniping, and yes, they should be punished ifthey are ever caught. At the same time, you know, you areopening yourself up, like there's just you know, I think you can havethose simultaneous truth at the same time. Yeah, I guess that's fair andyou are right. Like it is. It's both victim blaming, but there'salso more things that you can do. I mean, that's said. It'sjust like, and this kind of goes back to the point I was makingearlier, we're like there's just new methods of doing things in the online landscapethat you couldn't do before. At the end of Day, these tournaments justaren't the same, right, like, you know, you can do allthe things in the world, and your point it could still be doing sketchythings, regardless of if they can see your hand or not, and thosethings could just never be caught just by nature of how these online tournaments work. It's just I will also say. I will also say that the prizesfor these online tournaments are not worth stream sniping for. I also just wantto say that not worth your dignity. Yeah, honestly, you know,if you're out there and you're like hey, I could, I could, youknow, I could go on a twit should I could get a freewin here, it's like Bro like the wind that you got is like fiveextra packs, like right, what are you doing? There is really nobenefits, or very minimal benefits, to doing so anyway. So I don'tknow. Yeah, I mean I think at the end of the day thatthe lesson for the viewers here is, you know, hold yourself to theright standard and hold your friends as well. You know, it's super common thesedays for like people to be in chats and discords going to like talkingabout their games. Yeah, and that's one thing, like not necessarily againstthe rules to do that in these online tournament. I would say as well, like if you hear about your friends like doing these kinds of things,even in these discords, like I'm the layoff, like you know, weshould create the culture of of doing the right thing right like just I meaneven taking this to like a real life example, just because you didn't getcaught palming a car doesn't mean that it wasn't cheating. And then it wasn'tthe wrong thing to do, like take your wins and losses with dignity,play the Games of the best that you can with the cars that you're dealtand information that you have available to you and make the best of that.I almost think this makes me kind of thing, and I've thought about thisever since it happened the other day. It reminds me of that one tournament, I don't know if you were there, where there was like a glass ceilingthat was reflective. I think it was last a one year. It'slike, yeah, your opponent could look up and see your car's probably,but nobody did because, hey, it's obvious if you're doing that. Butbe like that's just horrible, that's all whole and like you don't do thatso well. I don't think that we need to tell any of our listenersthat right. I don't think our listeners are the problem. I think,and I don't think necessarily their friend groups other problems, but I think it'sabout creating the culture of like being honest...

...players who are doing their best andcalling those things out when you see them, whether they're in your friend groups orlike maybe larger acquaintances. I don't be afraid to make sure that we'realso, like working to enforce and build up that culture of being honest andtrew the game. Yeah, absolutely, I think that's a great place toleave that conversation. Yeah, so, well, perfect segue coming up here. If you're looking for ways to flex that honesty and enjoy the POKEMON gamefurther, then next full grip online series is in two weeks here, onTuesday that'd be sure to check that out and bring all your battle styles actionthere. And if you're looking to refill on codes, they get ready forthat to your this this is so good, right. Yeah, if you're lookingto refill on goes to get to that tournament, make sure you goto full group codescom and check them out. They'll have all your code needs there. A true salesman, they better give me the big bucks without one. That's right. That's right, JW. Any closing thoughts as we wrap uptoday? I think that Pokemon trading card game is fun. I'm surprisedthat this screen peeking scandal is coming out as late as it did. Imean, think about it. We've had over a year online tournaments, soI'm surprised that this wasn't a thing earlier. I mean certainly it was maybe goingon, and now it's just somebody getting caught. But even at thesame time, I think that it's surprising that it's gone this long before somebodygot caught. So I I think you hear this and you might think,Oh, yeah, you know, the community is very negative and like there'sall this thing, these things happening, a lot of ramp and cheating,but I definitely don't think that's a case. I think on the whole, peopleare very much not in it for for the prizing and not really youknow here too. Yeah, any of the people are entering these tournaments everyday because they like the packs. They yeah, entering them because they're fond, they enjoy the game and they want to do their best. Absolutely,absolutely, so I think we're still fine. I love the game, I lovethe community and thank you guys for making it what it is and Ilove where it's headed to. I'm really liking the new cards, I agree. So be sure to rate and review on your favorite podcasting platforms. Itreally helps boost is up in those all two precious algorithms. Sure to giveus a follow on twitter at mouth of Riles, Real John Walter and tagteam Pokemon for myself, Dow and they asked and we will catch you atthe same place, same time next week these see you.

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