Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 31 · 1 year ago

3-31. Don't Snipe Me, Bro

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are back to discuss the latest and greatest in Battle Styles, such as Victini VMAX. But wait, a controversy loom... cheating?? Stream sniping?? What's going on?!

Yo, what is up, guys? Looking back to tag team Pokemon Trading Card Games Premiere podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert, joined as always by my very blurry friend, Mr Dave W creywall. Have you. How you doing today? Don't okay, I'm struggling and racking my brain. Is why I'm so blurry. Is So, so very blurry, so very I feel like it's getting progressively worse. I don't know. And maybe we have just switched like the platform and which we call each other. Yeah, maybe, or it's more. Maybe we have to maybe we had the update the link, is what I was thinking. But that doesn't make any sense. But it does. It's like but maybe, yeah, it's lame ends before loses connection over time. I don't know, man. Yeah, I mean, I'm down for whatever. It's just look weird, just no skype. That's not a tough cell. But I'm doing pretty well. Riley, how are you? I'm feeling good. I'm honestly, I'm really tired today. Havn't slept very well last few days, but that's that's on me. That's not me. You know, I've been really into this book that I've been reading so I've been kind of reading it, and the problem isn't necessarily that I read it really late. If that, my brain is still churning, you know, after the reading. Sure that makes it hard to fall asleep later. Sure don't talk about I hear you. Yeah, because you're thinking like hey, how is how is Gormand are about to make it out of this that you've read the book too. Yeah, I know, I've been thinking about it too. Brow. What's been going on in your world? Well, I have a massive toothache. That's not good. That is consuming my thoughts, my every thought. This happens about once every one or two years, where like I just like I think it's like a brust gum or something, because it's it always heals like it's just I had the way for it to pass. So I have this like vary in intense, like driving pain for a little bit and then it goes away and then like we're fine for another year or two. I don't know. It's some kind of weird did you ever watch that Halloween movie where the Goblin Gargoyle thing comes out of the corn field every hundred and seven years or something and then he prays upon the town people. Do you know what I'm talking about? I think so, but I don't remember what the movies called. Yeah, and he's like big and he's got like wings and things, and it's like it's like I'm trying to anyway. You guys can let us know. Yours can let us know about what what that movie is. But anyway, that's what it feels like. It's this recurring nightmare. It keeps coming back. That's superm everyone to two years. It is really weird. Is Really Weird. So I don't know, maybe I'll just get that tooth taken out and maybe I'll never have pain there again. I mean, as your dentist like said, anything, I'm like x Ray and nothing's come up. Well, I mean it's it's definitely a tooth that has had work done in the past, like I think have any filling and things. So I don't know, maybe has something to do with that. I feel that that APP a lot of time, like feelings and stuff. I know we didn't take good care of our teeth when we were a little. I really didn't, always eating ice cream and not rushing my teeth. I know it's tragic. I think my parents did a really good job of teaching me good oral hygiene. My mom especially floss is like almost after every meal. I think she would floss in the morning and in the in the evenings. I know. That's all I'm saying like so I definitely didn't learn these bad habits from her. Rady says he thinks it's from the Charlie Brown Halloween. That can't be right. I think there's like another like live action movie that has similar constus. Yes, exactly, exactly, but maybe it's Charlie Brown out of it is not great punk anything in the Great Pumpkin. Now I'M gonna look it up. Okay, you...

...have me so convinced that I need to look up what this is. Halloween, Gargoyle in on busts. Maybe I remember there's a bus scene Halloween fus. Okay, anyway, we can continue on. I'm going to look this up and then when I find it halfway through the Pod, I will let you know and everyone will go that's what he's talking about. Pretty also says that he would never floss. So message to all of our listeners. Please floss at least once a day. It's good for your teeth, and brush them, if not after every meal at least twice a day. Otherwise I get lot the cavities. Young JW and Riley, that's right, we can pass on any wisdom to you in this. It's I'm grown oral. Hi, team. Is there a dead is temporary relative to your teeth. That's true, true, so true. So, anyway, there is been a lot going on pokemon lately, though. I actually decent amount of stuff happening. So we will talk about stream sniping in the second half of the CAST, but we want to start off kind of focusing in on some of the recent results. And now the Meta is shaking up with the addition of battle styles. So got a couple things that we can take a look at here. Obviously, the full grip online series was yesterday. If you miss that, be sure to join the discord so you can go in some of the future ones. I got it, but that it's jeepers, creepers. You've creepers, of course, first creepers. Okay, I just had to say it. All right, we're good. Let's move like you with it closed. That door. Great, then, while you're watching deep first creepers, though, what better way to pair with that then playing a pokemon tournament so I'd be sure to check out the full grip online series discord where you can get all the updates about joining that tournament. I'll put the link in the description for this episode. Yeah, absolutely. What I like about the tournament, then, we've talked about this before. It's just it's very simply run. So if you're looking for a tournament that doesn't take, you know, nine ten hours, this is the what for you. We had a lot of really interesting decks from last night. Riley. What was your favorite deck that you saw on the Stream? Um, honestly, I was. I liked a lot of the decks I saw on stream. There's a lot of really cool ones. I think my favorite one that ended up performing well is Andrew Wamble had just an incredibly smooth list of single striker Chifu. You know, I said it for a couple weeks now. I think single striker Chiefu is kind of underrated and over and really fun as well. It's just like one of those decks is really satisfying to play. And Andrew was consistently getting set up. He was in the games that he appeared on stream. I don't think he was streaming himself, but like he appeared in a couple of opponents games. His decktors, is running so good it was awesome. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I actually had an exchange with Stefan Ivan off on twitter just talking about his list and kind of where I was at with the list. And Andrew opted to go, you know, more with Steffan's list, which is great. I think again, it is a very strong list. I was really curious about the evolution in sense. I felt like those cards in that list could have maybe been great balls, like you're really trying to get out those hound hours. I was finding that was a big issue with the deck. If I wasn't finding a couple hound hour on the first turn, then it was going to make it really hard in the later turns to get a tack set up. But Anyway, Andrew had this list really, really, like you said, straightforward, contin consistent with, you know, Max counts of all the important cards, you know, the research, the Marni's that are no vitality, all maxed out there and did really well, like you said, took it to a top eight finish. Yeah, and I do want to point out like that evolution in sense is definitely...

...a little bit odd compared to like what I've been trying out. You know, I've been focusing more on like the coms and the hit balls, maxing those out. I hate poke Coom, honestly, it's such a frustrating card. But one thing I do think was particularly interesting and I'm curious to see, like if these evolves or changes, is Andrews List was relatively light on the tower of darkness. That's something I really enjoyed like having in pretty high counts, like up to four sometimes, and you know, worst case you tower darkness, your tower dark and draw some shards. I'm curious like if I'm over writing that card or maybe or maybe it finds its place in high accounts in the future when, like, perhaps what is it called chaotic swall rotates? Yeah, get a little more time, time to shine. Yeah, I think I think that's certainly true. If you're playing tower darkness into a lot of chaotics well, which that seems to be just kind of the de fact though, stadium of choice, then you probably aren't in for a good time. But yeah, that lower count of Tower of darkness I think should be the norm in the future. I've had mixed results with it and I think it's just not a card that you're guaranteed to get an effect from with so many kid kadoks wells out there. So, yeah, I'm genuinely gonna leaning factor there. Also frustrating, honestly. Yeah, it certainly is. For a lot of reasons. It's a it's such a powerful card, but I really feels like you're learning the hope of steady. Definitely. There was plenty of other decks, though, that were cool and did well. Spear Tomb is definitely making a resurgence lately with the addition of Escape Robe, and it's really cool to see like the amount of damage you can build up in these spirit teams the spike moth in the escape robe so quickly. Yeah, absolutely, I mean that was the deck that, yeah, kind of died out there when we lost the escapboard and then now it's coming back. We have more switching options in the format, so it just makes a little bit more sense play it almost exactly like how you did just now with those with those escape rope so very cool. Yeah, like you said, making a resurgence. I don't know that it's necessarily the deck for me. I think it has a number of kind of if e matchups especially with things like dragon pull coming back into the format. But it certainly a cool idea. We also saw a an ATPS option. I thought that this was the most unique. I know you're listening to the castor like atps option the most unique list, but for real it had to ATP to Zostion and for four bronze on and the idea here is you go second, you get a bronzong down turn one with the evolutionary ability on that bronze, or you can evolve that Bronzeng turn one, get the energy on the board with the metal saucer, attach your Roora energy and all of a sudden you have a turn one going saint altered creation, which is very, very strong. Yeah, I mean getting turn one altered you in a second is is incredibly strong. I think they're definitely tweeks I would make to that list. But the concept of it was super cool and I think one of the things that's underrated about the Bronzeng, not saying necessarily a bronzng, it's definitively the way to go. I think it's still us to be determined, but one things I really like about it is I'm after you altered, you can just immediately get the energy off the ATP if people have swung into it. Yep. So you know, a lot of these decks their strategy might be to hit into the ATP. You know, if they can't reach the two hundred and eighty, they'll try and hit into ATP right when it altered and then if they attack, then their guaranteed to take prizes. I mean it's kind of removes that as an option. Yeah, it makes it so much more versatile. I really would encourage all of our viewers to get some reps in with the deck because you'll be surprised at how much different it feels the normal ATP. I normally think of ATP as being generally a smooth deck, but you know, we all kind of know how it can kind of clunk up with energies, especially in the Mid and light game, if you just don't draw into your metal saucers and you have energies and places that you don't want them and they're kind of useless, or you have the discard too many energy and now you just don't have an attacker to build up. And this list completely negates a lot of...

...those weaknesses that ATP had. Now you're you're trading in some of those extra spicy cards for just consistent bronze on lines, but I think in a lot of ways it improves the deck and makes it much more potent. I would be surprised we don't see the Dick pop up more in the future. Ring from the mouth, hi TDP's on. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We had another deck coming in at second place, which was the rapid strike or Shaffu Vmas, playing it with Dragon Poult and actillery, which I know we were just talking before the cast that we are saying in a lot of these rapid strike decks people are going away from actillery, maybe playing a more GERACCI team up focus build. I personally love autillery. I think it's not getting enough credit, but certainly I understand. You know, people are playing with Racci because that feels very similar to things that we've seen just, you know, a couple years ago with that Zapp Dose Geraci Deck. So any thoughts? They're on either the list or just kind of rapid strike dragon poltse in Jeah. So this variant of dragged pole has kind of been floating around. I've seen it in a couple tournaments I've played against it online. Seems like a lot to set up. I don't really like how thin you have to make your various lines to accommodate all of these stage ones. That said, I the Dragon Pol or she food deck is really kind a potent. It's it's a little tough to deal with just because it covers so many weaknesses. The only problem that deck has is it, when it's not hitting for weakness, it's damage can be kind of low right. So if they're against them, you or against the deck that will threaten one hit chaos back on them. That's when you see that that kind of struggle. It's I also not a huge fan of the drag of Bul variant, just because the energy counts get a little weird. We talked about this last week as well, but finding the right balance between like a roars and horrors and fightings and basic psychics and and all of that is just a little bit messy. But I do conceptually like the idea of paring dragged bolt and or she and I think if you're going to do that, despite the fact that it's just a stage ones, actually does add like a level of consistency that I feel like a variant like that kind of needs. Sure, sure, absolutely. No. I mean, overall, I was there's a lot of cool decks that are coming out. That said, though, there's plenty of mainstays that haven't faded away either. Before we get into those, I do want to quickly call out victiniv Max as really even popular lately. Wasn't as popular, I think, in the full grip on line some of these other tournaments, but victiniv Max is everywhere, everywhere right now. It's all over the ladder, it's all over these tournaments. It's crazy, all right. kind of called it. Yeah, I mean I'm just just saying, just saying. I kind of did say that it was one of the better cards and I did advocate it for it to be in our top ten. So now you're right. You're right. You know, I think the one area of a teeny struggles is the same one that I argued for as well. It's the way is against those G X is. So you have to find those ways to deal with them effectively. In current format you have all sorts of great options, though the prevailing build a Victini is really that mewtube based build where you have the Mewtwo, the Reshi's are potentially the families are that does the three hundred first gas attack and then using that to two or three two fifteen ev Max line to deal with The v Pokemon I just said. I think the strength is just a so versatile and it uses welder so well, also being able to leverage like other draw supporters. So it's not like a tempo zard or needs to water every single turn or else it will lose guaranteed. It's you know,...

...it's just victini or where you like. You can attach, attached and boss in the first two turns, or you can Walter and like build up these really big threats. Well, that's the thing too, is like this deck is great in the sense that you can get up very early in a game and then, if you find yourself not hitting, welders, like welder de x tend to do, run hot or cold. You know you can go ahead and spread flames once, maybe twice again. You built up this big advantage early right by knocking out your opponent that had, you know, there there v on the bench that had a had an energy attached. Okay, if it's against a turn, it is right. You get yourself an extra turn. So that's when you can start to spread flames build some things up on the bench. Like it just all works out very, very well right now in the format. And Yeah, I'm certainly happy to see vic tenv Max performing well. Yeah, and I think one of the strengths of Victini. Honestly, I kind of conceptually put victind MACs and the same bucket as like ATP's Otion. The difference is, you know, ATP's Otion is gonna Attach Gx and then attack twice to try and win, whereas Victini bill attach and then attack, attack, attack. So still taking about the same amount of turns in their ideal game state, but the tiny it attacks more times, whereas attz attacks, twits on and takes more prizes. Sure so. Honestly they're very similar, though, where they're trying to like boss up your vulnerable pokemon and pick them off or just a explode the active though. Sure that's that. I think it fills the niche very well. The one thing that's really frustrating the Tini is just those vgx's. I mean, even with all those options, like staring down at Peak Ram can be really frustrating for Victini. Turned down at the Danny Gx and be surprisingly frustrating for victin ev Max. You know, and like you see this. You see this in this online tournaments. You see it in the Champions League. You saw it all the time where people would just like leave a Dedenne up against victiniv max for a Ti and they couldn't do anything's good, which is just, I mean a right really get swing in for a hundred and twenty. But yeah, I understand your point. Like you're not on shotting at today, which is really sad. Yeah, I mean the thing is that kind of deck like swinging for one hundred and twenty. What is it? Are you going to do with it? To Danny with one twenty on it? You got a boss it up later in Ko. It right, exactly, exactly. So it just feels goofy, but it does put a ton of pressure. The point I was ultimately getting at is it puts a ton of pressure on that's that are starer to set up. I think it's a really valuable trait to have in this format and general and like generally in Pokemon, like funishing your opponent for inconsistent setup is just like such a tracy strategy. Yes, I a hundred percent agree and it's it's the kind of deck that it doesn't mind going first or second. I don't think you either right, like you go first, you attach and then on your next turn your gust, you go suck it. You maybe have some more or welder plays or you have some, you know, energy acceleration via VIC TINV and so there's just not really any punishing there as well when you're talking about which position you go. So I think that makes it really nice for kind of a longer tournament where you're not focused on, okay, I need to go second because I need to get the flare starter off, or I need to go second because I need to get bolts on. Like you can go first or second and really have good results either way. Agreed a hundred percent, though. Lots of cool stuff with the tin ev Max. I. I mean I'm curious to see if there's like new directions of the deck can be taken or new ways that people can buy the card. But I mean right now that me too, version is on a rampage. Yeah, definitely. Well, let's talk about some of the other top performing decks. I have the Hester season three number forty tournament up on my screen right now and it's just a lot of surprisingly, a lot of the same. We're seeing a lot of Lucarioma metal, speaking of like fire decks. Now we have kind of the polar opposite, Lucariomel metal doing particularly well. Pe Kurram is still surviving. I...

...don't I don't know, man. We keep pronouncing it dead. It keeps doing well, certainly on the back of mew two to counteract those fighting type her Shaffus, and then things like Dragon Paull, things like ATP a turn it. This is still around. I mean this kind of feels like a lot of the same with maybe a little wrinkle. What do you think attributes to that sort of metagame that is a lot of the same with just a few new decks sprinkled in? or well, I think of these decks? Honestly, the CARYOMEM AD AL was the one that I think ended up being hurt the most by the new set, just because the TV Max really doesn't number on the Caryo mom at all. Honestly, it's really tough to deal with. The thing is, though, that Lucara Momenta has really good matchups across the board outside of Victiniv Max. If you're able to dodge it. You know, you hit it one round and then you play other things the rest around, or, like a lot of these online tournaments, you can cut it x too, as the Journalo IDs, or they cut like top sixteen. So so you would actually are now met all like they hit around or two of fire and then they just beat everything else or like take good to good even matchups against everything else and they just end up cutting and they continue doing well. So, I mean I played a lot of Lucario no metal like on the ladder recently as well, and honestly, once you're not in those fire matchups, it feels just so good. Yeah, sure, sure. And I mean even when you do get in those fire matchups, like the Victini decks, don't they have a lot of room to play fan of waves or their own guarantineas or things like that? So those coding metals can actually stick around. I mean it's not unheard of for a Luke metal deck to take down a vict yeah, I mean it's definitely not like a hundred zero. It's super unfavored for sure, but you can definitely get a coding metal to stick and goods IMS in to play and end up pulling it through. So I mean the Parammentotis is a lot of staying power peak ram and it turned this. I think there's two factors there. I think first off, the fighting decks maybe weren't as potent as we thought they were, both in rank and quantity. So you know they're not super heavily played and both of those decks kind of have ways around them. So you know, you see the attorneys decks playing the weakness guards energies which, honestly, if you're playing one of those fighting necks, can be really frustrating. You don't have like a fan of waves or gear teenager remove that. Sure you know, it feels like it. Turn is kind of has the light up on you. And then he gram obviously has the mew two, which you alluded to earlier, and I think peak gram also benefits a lot from not only just the mew too, but the fact that the stamp paralyzed strategy that they utilize and peak ram is always going to be effective no matter what matchup you're against. Ram Is still, to this day, like the best user of reset stamp. It has the most play options available to it, though in a way, I mean we thought pe Kuram would maybe struggle, but I think you know, leading more into the mew to finding new ways navigate the matchups and leveraging your reset stamps, like can you can get through so many situations that way. Yeah, yeah, I think one thing that has been interesting about peak ramast I haven't been seeing a lot of people play fan in their peak around list, which I feel like it's a mistake. I haven't played peek around in this new format too much, but I do still see a lot of a team yel grunt and I kind of wonder, okay, why would you play team yell grunt when you could play, you know, guaranteed card? That's a that's an item you obviously there's, you know, counterplay right where yellow ground does work on basic energies and fan of waves doesn't, but I just feel like that's an obvious kind of I think one energy is that my Grama is most concerned about removing aren't the specials, though. You know your most concerned about the darkness energies on the eternity. Is Your...

...most concerned about your water energies or them or the metal off the ATP now, granted, the ATT plays Aurora like families or but in my mind, like the matchups for the y'all ground matters the most. The Fan of ways won't help you. And there's also the fact that aldagoths y'all grunt is like such a potent play as well, going for durant or a couple tourture. I would just say, you know, eternity, this is kind of on the decline. It had this really, you know, large explosion towards the end of the last format, I would say, and now it's, you know, kind of receding. Still they're still popular, but I just don't really think that you need to tech for that. And the fire decks, I mean you know you're going to win via some combination of you know that the hammers don't really matter anyway to those kinds of decks, or at least they're not that significant. So just something I've been think about. If I played peak around this form, I would definitely look to include at least one fan of waves in that team. Young Grunt Slot. Yeah, I mean I guess I wouldn't really consider it a suitable substitute for like the role that yello grunt fills. If I did that, it would be more so because, like I just wanted extramoval like an addition to yell ground drolly, like I play a one yell grounds, a one fan for or. I just don't see like the need for Y'all grunt in the Meta, but I want to have like a little extra kick, so I play a way. I think a lot of people were playing special energies. I mean, I'm trying to think of a deck that does on outside of like a Vic Tinia deck, but maybe it isn't that big of a deal. Yeah, I mean, you could definitely hurt your your Lucario's, but I don't think that many of the ATPS are on like a roarer bronze on yet. So I think ATP is going to be the deck that you really want to yell rap back. Yeah, for sure. Any other things that you're seeing from the hegster or just the tournaments in general that you want to point out? No, I mean, honestly, battle styles is kind of rationed up the format in the in exactly the kind of way I would have wanted it to, where the decks that came out of it aren't just steam rolling everything, but they're powerful and they've like they're suitable and their tournament contenders and they're really fun as well. So, you know, I like to see like the previous decks continue to survive while also being an ecosystem where new decks are introduced in there, for I think that's like the best way that a set can go. Yeah, I think we're going to look back at this set and be very, very impressed with the set designers that just were able to make something that's new and fresh and good, you know, certainly rapid strike and and honestly single strike making a case for being, you know, a viable deck. But I think we're going to look back on this format right now and say, yeah, this was a very, very healthy metagame. A lot of different options that people can go a lot of different metagame choices that people can make, a lot of different texts that people can play. We're seeing a lot of Muse we're seeing just a lot of, you know, unusual attackers. I think it's some of these decks. So it's really cool to see. Absolutely absolutely. I mean, do you have any other thoughts on this Meta for me close after this. Okay. Well, I'm really surprised to how much me too is being played. Actually, that deck just didn't see a lot of play. With the turn it on on the rise again in the last format. So it's really interesting to see welder me you two just come roaring back. Is One of the most played decks in the in the that last Hester tournaments. So pretty impressive to see me to being able to contend with some of these. Just outrageous. Vmax has absolutely I mean, after had such a rough time versus the turn, it's it's really cool to see him come back. Yep, Yep, awesome that. Let's off years then and talk about the car of the day for today. So for today's cart of the day, background story, as I always do, from my part of the day. So the other day I had a friend over and...

...they live in the same apartment as me and we were watching some shows and I wanted to show them my binder of Ratis because I collect the RAALT card, every single print of Rallot I have and the prize vallet right now is the shiny no I, although I did pull the shiny from a pack, which was very cool. Both copies of my shiny rallots are from packs, which is really a cool yeah, the the prized Rollot, in my opinion, is the scream art rollot. So there was a collection of cards in Japan, Rallot being one of them, that were based on kind of different artworks, and the Rollot one is based off the scream so raletts all twisted up, he's got the face on. It's just such a cool card. It's nice like full art and it's just awesome. I mean these are the kind of promos that you wish we would get in the states. Sure, but that route is just so fun. I mean it it takes that like it just draws attention to it, like when you book the The roulet minder, like that's the one that you want to look at. Sure, and it's just so cool. Like I love those kind of like artistic promos that that Japan gets. Honestly, if it was like more reasonably price, I mean they're not super expensive in the at the end of the day, but, like you know, if I could like go down to the store and get something that would contain one of those are get a promo from some event, like, I would definitely do that. They're so awesome, though, Hart, the day to day is the screen rallot. There's plenty of other great rolets. I think my second favorite one would be the one in the backpack. You know what I want to talk about? Ye, I do. Yeah, the backpack Rallot. I'm shout at the Shawan Line and for helped me get that one. So relish is not start first, Berea llots really cool and you should check it out. If it's your first time hearing about it, you should just look at that whole collection of cards. They're really awesome. Great Card of the day. But shifting gears again to our closing half of the day, we got to talk about what's been going on in the tournament. Seen here we're not talking about results. So the other day a scandal came up where someone was allegedly caught stream sniping. That person ended up being I don't know if they're disqualifiers, got a double game lot. They end up being out of the tournament. After the evidence was presented. This caused a lot of discourse about you know what is appropriate with regards to enforcing of rules when it comes to stream sniping, who it is the owners of responsibility fall onto to prevent streams thaping, and honestly, JW and I were starting to talk about this. We kind of just stopped ourselves because we wanted to kind of talk this through. You live the JW. I just kind of want to open up to start with, like, what are your thoughts on the situation? You know, where do you think we need to like look to improve or change our procedures to make sure things are flowing smoothly? Give me like your general speel here. Absolutely, I think that it is any time that we catch somebody cheating. And again, I wasn't I didn't have first hand account knowledge of this. Happen, happens. Stance, wow words tonight, but I think that, you know, any time that we see cheating, it has to be punished. I think that anyone would say that in a competitive environment, whenever someone is gaining, you know, on unusual on and you know, intended advancement of the game like that, in a way that that could be deem cheating, which I would imagine that you know, being able to look at your opponents hand would constitute that. So if someone is doing that intentionally, that you know should be should be punished. So the question becomes, how do we deal with the going forward? Is it's something where how, like, how can you prove that somebody's cheating. I think that's one of the silliest things is like to be...

...caught cheating in an online environment. Means that you have to make yourself publicly known, that you're in the stream of the streamer, and so it just seems like the silliest thing for a person to ever get caught cheating. You know what I mean, right, like go incognito mode. Yeah, yeah, like go incognito mode, make a separate account. I'm not saying I'm not advocating again, just like don't you're me wrong. No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. It's like how do you catch someone doing this, you know, yeah, if they're like doing it reasonably. Yeah, not posting a chat, like not using the user name. I mean even if they have their own user name, like if you don't know about it and don't check the viewer list. I. Most people, I don't think, have their your list open old time, right. You know, how do you even catch that? And I think it's a valid point. I mean even within that like just because they're in your viewer lists, that mean they're actively looking at your game? Are they listening to the commentary? Toes that count? Are they just looking at the chat? Does that count right? Right? Are Did they make? I mean, and the other thing too, is like did they make kind of a suboptimal play that maybe was optimal in that situation. I could think of one where would be like, did they play a reset stamp on turn one, and did they do it because they knew what was in your hand, or did they do it because they just wanted to play that card for some other reason or they just didn't think about it? or I mean maybe a Miss Click or something like that. But you know, how do you how do you police that right? So, and I largely agree with that. Like I think conceptually, you know, if you're caught stream snaking, you should be punted for that. Like that is, by the books, cheating, like you're looking upon his hand. I'm pretty sure in the players cut rules and regulations that even mentioned something about stream sniping. So the president is there. It's definitely against the spirit of the game at the very least. By how do you have someone doing that? And the I don't really have a good answer for that. Like I think even if you provide all the best evidence you can, at the end of the day. It's still like kind of anecdotal, I like a he said, she said thing and without like having almost like a screen share for every player of a tournament being monitored by a judge. It's like you can't do that. Yeah, you can't like manage that. Yeah, and it brings up like larger questions, to which I don't want to get into all of these today, but you know, the online environment kind of like opens itself up to some of these like almost like on accounted for, I guess, like cheating methods. You know, all the time we have people like in calls online, like you know, with their friends like talking through all their plays. Like does that count? Is Cheating? Not necessarily by the rules of the tournaments, but like would you ever do that in real life? Like obviously not, and that's I think. I think too. I mean that brings up a point to about the people that stream right and saying, okay, well, if I watch chat, is that getting it advantaged because I'm getting more input, more waste? Or like what if you're what, as you're playing as another streamer and your cat goes into that stream and tells you things? Like it's so difficult to like pinpoint this and like really draw the line. I think at the end of the day, like streams, I think is an active action, like you're taking a specific choice to gain knowledge that you shouldn't have otherwise. So in of itself, I think stream sniping is obviously cheating and should be punished. It's just how do you ever monitor that? Is just so difficult. It's super tough. So then the conversation's kind of spewed off of that is, you know, where does responsibility lie there? Was that lie with tournament organizers to try and prevent it, or does it lie on the streamer to kind of guard themselves from that harm? You know, do they put a hand cover? Do they they have a delay? So what are your thoughts on that? You well, it's really tough as a streamer right where your content should be the most important thing. So when you're telling me that I...

...should have to change the content, like I as a streamer, I'm trying to grow the game by streaming the game right, either consciously or unconsciously, like I am promoting the game, and so if you want people to grow the game, then you know obviously the way that you do that is to play with and you know, as openly as possible, no delay and no covering of any kind. But, like you said, that gets into some tricky situation and where it's like you could sacrifice the content that you're producing in order to save yourself for being stream sniped, or you could open yourself up to the possibility of being stream sniped and have arguably worse content. So it's it's really tough as a content creator and I really feel for someone like someone like a zool or Andrew, or I mean really any content creator for that matter. But just like, especially the people that make the living off of playing online, where their content is the most important thing, you just really are kind of handcuffed and what you can do. Agreed. I mean my take on it is is pretty similar. I think. You know, you can't tell the content creator likes. I don't know how exactly to phrase this, but you can't expect the content creators, I guess, to shift the way they are producing content as to avoid sniping. But I think it comes down to you know, what do you value more individually? Do you value your, I guess, sanctity of your tournament run and protecting that, in which case I would almost say, like just don't even stream it at all if that's like the most important thing, because even with a delay like there's information that can be clean and you can learn about price cards, you can learn about even the hand, I mean the hand can stay the same or like just build up for a couple minutes at a time like a delight. Isn't fix the problem out right. A handcam does kind of fix things, but I would also say like to the viewer, Handcam is really frustrating. Honestly. It's like visually is unpleasing. It's, you know, kind of takes away from the experience because, like, I mean, you don't get Josn't like that excite his wames. Like if I can't see your hand, what am I even watching for right exactly? So I don't know, it's kind of weird. I will shift the conversation once again. Is there anything that could be implemented in the game? Now, I'm not that particularly well versed in any of the other card games or or any other strategy games like online that would have any sort of anti cheating measures, but is there something that pokemon, the guys that Direwolf, could do to prevent or at least help prevent any sort of cheating while still allowing streamers and other content creators to produce that content on a real time basis. I don't really think so. I mean, in these other card games like hearstone, obviously huge online environment, they mostly use like the combinations of delays and hand covers, and I think if blizzard doesn't have the framework, then I don't see dire will having either. And that's not even just a slam on direwils jabs. I just think it's like a huge ask. Yeah, yeah, and probably intrusive one as well. Like it, they would need to have more access than maybe them to write. So I mean no, I mean I think at the end of the day it's kind of what I was hearkening at, which is you have to make that choice. Like is your tournament run? I think matters more to you or your content. I think for a lot of these streamers, the answers the content, at least for some of these like smaller events where, you know, like for a heaster, for packs, like maybe they don't care necessarily if they get snipe comment. It's more important to this like enjoy the experience with your viewers. If you're in the Players Cup finals, like maybe you don't stream that because five grand is on the line. Yeah, and that's more important at the time. I think those are...

...just like maybe you just record it for later and like bad review or something. I think it comes down to the individual event. But I don't think as well, I'm a lot of the discourses seem to focus too much on like where does the responsibility lie? And like, obviously the streamers are making choices that make them vulnerable, but that's just it's such a bad mentality, I think, to blame the streamer for being sniped right, like obviously they didn't make their stream the most secure way possible. But I don't think it's analogous to like leaving your house unlocked or I mean, I think that analogy is almost more comparable to like, you know, going out in like skimpy clothing, right, like it's I mean it's absolutely victim blaming to say yes to the streamer, like you should have blocked your hand. Like that is victim blaming. At the same time your you are you know, I think you can have these simultaneous truths, right where you have yes, yeah, definitely been blaming to blame the streamer. So, like the a hundred percent of the onus is on the person that is doing the stream sniping, and yes, they should be punished if they are ever caught. At the same time, you know, you are opening yourself up, like there's just you know, I think you can have those simultaneous truth at the same time. Yeah, I guess that's fair and you are right. Like it is. It's both victim blaming, but there's also more things that you can do. I mean, that's said. It's just like, and this kind of goes back to the point I was making earlier, we're like there's just new methods of doing things in the online landscape that you couldn't do before. At the end of Day, these tournaments just aren't the same, right, like, you know, you can do all the things in the world, and your point it could still be doing sketchy things, regardless of if they can see your hand or not, and those things could just never be caught just by nature of how these online tournaments work. It's just I will also say. I will also say that the prizes for these online tournaments are not worth stream sniping for. I also just want to say that not worth your dignity. Yeah, honestly, you know, if you're out there and you're like hey, I could, I could, you know, I could go on a twit should I could get a free win here, it's like Bro like the wind that you got is like five extra packs, like right, what are you doing? There is really no benefits, or very minimal benefits, to doing so anyway. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean I think at the end of the day that the lesson for the viewers here is, you know, hold yourself to the right standard and hold your friends as well. You know, it's super common these days for like people to be in chats and discords going to like talking about their games. Yeah, and that's one thing, like not necessarily against the rules to do that in these online tournament. I would say as well, like if you hear about your friends like doing these kinds of things, even in these discords, like I'm the layoff, like you know, we should create the culture of of doing the right thing right like just I mean even taking this to like a real life example, just because you didn't get caught palming a car doesn't mean that it wasn't cheating. And then it wasn't the wrong thing to do, like take your wins and losses with dignity, play the Games of the best that you can with the cars that you're dealt and information that you have available to you and make the best of that. I almost think this makes me kind of thing, and I've thought about this ever since it happened the other day. It reminds me of that one tournament, I don't know if you were there, where there was like a glass ceiling that was reflective. I think it was last a one year. It's like, yeah, your opponent could look up and see your car's probably, but nobody did because, hey, it's obvious if you're doing that. But be like that's just horrible, that's all whole and like you don't do that so well. I don't think that we need to tell any of our listeners that right. I don't think our listeners are the problem. I think, and I don't think necessarily their friend groups other problems, but I think it's about creating the culture of like being honest...

...players who are doing their best and calling those things out when you see them, whether they're in your friend groups or like maybe larger acquaintances. I don't be afraid to make sure that we're also, like working to enforce and build up that culture of being honest and trew the game. Yeah, absolutely, I think that's a great place to leave that conversation. Yeah, so, well, perfect segue coming up here. If you're looking for ways to flex that honesty and enjoy the POKEMON game further, then next full grip online series is in two weeks here, on Tuesday that'd be sure to check that out and bring all your battle styles action there. And if you're looking to refill on codes, they get ready for that to your this this is so good, right. Yeah, if you're looking to refill on goes to get to that tournament, make sure you go to full group codescom and check them out. They'll have all your code needs there. A true salesman, they better give me the big bucks without one. That's right. That's right, JW. Any closing thoughts as we wrap up today? I think that Pokemon trading card game is fun. I'm surprised that this screen peeking scandal is coming out as late as it did. I mean, think about it. We've had over a year online tournaments, so I'm surprised that this wasn't a thing earlier. I mean certainly it was maybe going on, and now it's just somebody getting caught. But even at the same time, I think that it's surprising that it's gone this long before somebody got caught. So I I think you hear this and you might think, Oh, yeah, you know, the community is very negative and like there's all this thing, these things happening, a lot of ramp and cheating, but I definitely don't think that's a case. I think on the whole, people are very much not in it for for the prizing and not really you know here too. Yeah, any of the people are entering these tournaments every day because they like the packs. They yeah, entering them because they're fond, they enjoy the game and they want to do their best. Absolutely, absolutely, so I think we're still fine. I love the game, I love the community and thank you guys for making it what it is and I love where it's headed to. I'm really liking the new cards, I agree. So be sure to rate and review on your favorite podcasting platforms. It really helps boost is up in those all two precious algorithms. Sure to give us a follow on twitter at mouth of Riles, Real John Walter and tag team Pokemon for myself, Dow and they asked and we will catch you at the same place, same time next week these see you.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (138)