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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 21 · 1 year ago

2-21. The Goblet of Players

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys sit down to analyze the Player's Cup. The culmination of a month of effort is finally here! What deck will stand on top?

How's it going, everybody? Welcomeback to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. Myname is Riley Hulbert, joined yet again by my good, good friend JWCurry. Wall JW. How you doing today, Riley? I'm doing great. How are you? I am doing well. Then I got to sayI'm really tired today. Okay, yeah, okay, well, we'll keep itshort and sweet. It's nothing to do with my thoughts of the podcast. I just woke up and I've been tired all day. You know,you ever have the yeas I do have the I always think like something iswrong with me, like my health or something, or like, I don'tknow, just I something is wrong with my brain or something, and nowI'm in a downward spiral. Yeah, this is it. You're doomed now. Yeah, you're right, like my life will never be the same becauseI woke up and I was tired and just as bad. I know.I'm kind of having the opposite problem, though, where I'm waking up really, really early. Yeah, I can't figure out why. I like Iused to sleep for eight hours, nine hours, like, if I could, like it was very consistent. I would wake up at a very consistenttime, right about eight o'clock, seve hundred thirty eight, and now I'mwaking up at like six, six thirty, and I've had like pretty much highenergy the whole day, or at least enough energy to give you throughthe day. So I don't know what's going on there. Yeah, Ialways say that it's more about the cycle than it is about like the quantityof sleep that you get right when you wake up. Like I wake uppretty early on on weekends included, and you know, if I as longas I wake up when I actually, you know, physically just ready towake up, then I used right feel pretty rested. Right, it's it'sone of the alarm interrupts you midway through your your life cycle that you getdestroyed. Oh for sure, for sure at least the virus or it's.So, do you do anything fun over the holiday weekend? No, wetried to stay as safe as possible, trying to think about what Anne andI did. If it's not written down on my calendar, probably wasn't notableenough to speak out loud. We played some games of terraforming Mars. Wecooked a trifle. Well, it's not really cooking, but it's a dessert. I guess we do have to cook. We Cook the Angel Food Cake,but a trifle is basically just I mean, you know what a trifleis before our listeners don't know what a trifle is. It's a dessert ofmany stacked layers. Usually there's like a custard layer and, you know,probably some fruit and some kind of cake or something like that. We endedup using Angel Food Cake, made it with strawberries. We put fresh strawberries, we put a lemon custard, we had a strawberry like compote that weput in there and then we topped that with whipped cream strawberries. Quite thequite the extravagant trifle you end up making it. I know, are yousalivating it? I had my own dessert I made. I made these cookies. They're chacolate tipikies like nothing, you know, mind blowing. But Idid something called Browning the butter, where you like, yeah, I'll sitin in the pan and then, yes, you put it in the fridge andlike let it re solidify. Yeah, and it makes like a different,more like nutty solution. Yeah, and then what it leads to isthe cookies stay like really soft and Yummy, even for like multiple days after bakingthem. So those were super good. I brought those in to the officeand just set them. I individually bagged them all and put them outsidemy office for for like my team members on the project that I'm running toyeah, that's great. I bet they loved him. Yeah, yeah,they got good reviews out of cookies. Now nothing left. Well, it'sprobably good for your for your health. Yeah, yeah, I suppose.So. We've been watching this show, it's called final table, on Netflix, and the premise of the show is that there's pairs of chefs and theyget together. You know, there's maybe like ten or fifteen chefs pairs thatall get together and they have this cooking competition. But these are like notamateurs, they are, you know, world renowned Michelin Star Chefs, UhHuh. And it's just been really interesting. They cook a different cuisine every roundand then one person and gets voted off and I don't know, Ithink the production value is so high that I would just recommend it to anyone, even if they're not like a food person or even if they don't likefood competitions. I think it's just been a good show. My wife andI've been really enjoying it. That's awesome. I've been. I finally caved ina started diving really deep into Avatar, the last year opender on Netflix.That's been fun to have you never seen it? Nowice I watched itas it's coming out as a oh the Kay, okay, but this ismy first time like revisiting it and it's been really fun. It's a greatshow. It is a very good show.

Let's dive into poke though. Sofor those of you who are unaware, the Players Cup is just on thehorizon. Everyone who's fought hard over the month of June is getting theirbig payoff with the Players Cup invitational tournament, so that top two hundred and fiftysix players in North America are going to compete to get a top spotand get that stipend to one of the International Championships. So it's right reallycool event, kind of the culmination of the effort for all those people whoput those tournament tickets into to qualify. And so no doubt it's going tobe an exciting show. Still in the rebel clash format, so I don'tthink we'll see anything to groundbreaking in the in the world of the Meta.But let's talk about what we think that will will end up looking like.So we're coming off the limitless invitational, where it ended up being that speartomb was this definitely the king, finishing first and second with that to countvariant with the a Vlt all doom count some other notable choices for that tournament. There was a stall deck that made an appearance, Zashi and Combo stillshowing, make a strong showing at to the dismay of a Zul that ithe ran into the glitch one point into the tournament. Yes, but Istill think a powerful deck. JW. What do you think coming off oflimitless? Is Spirit Tomb still the main player heading into the player's cup?Well, I don't think so, and the reason is because spearit Tom wasprimarily a counter choice for the main decks. And so you look at a decklike, you know, Pika Ram, which spirit tomb absolutely obliterates, andand Pek Ram is, I still think, a very good choice forplayers in the Players Cup and also performed well pretty much across the board atevery limitless qualifier. Yeah, among other you know, tournaments that were heldonline, but spiritum to me was the ultimate counter choice. It had alot of texts that were specific to certain matchups that won the matchup but couldbe easily teched against. The primary example is the black market. Yeah,and if players didn't play any kind of counter stadium in their comboization deck,then they just almost automatically lost to that one single card. So, comingout of nowhere, that's a really good play. Right, if nobody's playingthat in their combat stadium in their conversation, then you play the black market inyour spirit too and you get that matchup like almost a free matchup againsta tier one deck, like yes, you know, then that makes astrong choice. Now that everyone has figured out spirit tumb is this counterplay,I think a lot of these decks will be a lot more prepared for it. Yeah, so I definitely agree with a lot of what you said there. I also feel like just continuing on that van why Spirit Tom might notbe the best choices. These are, you know, two hundred and fiftysix players that are competing and I expect them to be just very invested andI expect them to be, you know, some of the better players are atleast the most invested in online metagame, and so I think dragon pult willmake a big showing and so that to me also really kind of hinderspirit tomb to the point that I don't Love Spirit Tom I think it will, you know, see play. I just don't think that I'll be ago too choice for a lot of players. Yeah, and so I think there'sa lot of interesting points to digest. Their first thing you call out isthat it was sort of a surprised counter pick. I I think Ilargely agree with that, but I was thinking I was on my way toget lunched today and I was thinking about the fact that Kevin talked about stufflike exactly what you're saying, like the black market being countered by stadiums andall sorts of other stuff that he had mentioned, like people teching in shucklesand special energy blocking pokemon and other miscellaneous text like even blizzard town as apotential tech. Now I was trying to think what I could do to adeck to spruce up its spirit to matchup right, and the more I thoughtabout it, I actually felt like there wasn't a ton that could realistically bedone that Spirit Tomb couldn't keep up with, and I'm sure you know what Imean by that. But like spirit Tom could similarly tech for the taxand and of course you end up in like a somewhat odd spiral where everyone'stacking for each other in different ways. Sure, so you know there's pushingpull there, but I think ultimately what I'm getting at is that I thinkspiritum is still a top contender. One...

...thing, I think you call it. That's that I think is more so troubling for spirit tomb is that draggedpult matchup. When we had Kevin on he very clearly laid out like hispath the wind, but he also very specifically specified that it was difficult.Yeah, and so having to deal with a lot of dragon pull, itjust seems exhausting if nothing else. Yeah, and I also worry about another matchupfor spear tomb and that's the ATP Z matchup. Now atpz is,I personally like it. I mean ATPZ versus Combos EI. There are someintricacies there, but ATPEZ would, at least from my from my testing right, has a good matchup into ATP spirit tomb if you can play some bigcharm and there's some counterplay, if the spirit tum plays a tool scrapper andyou have big charm on your zation and you know there's some counterplay there,but generally speaking, if you're able to get the ATP off, then youshould win the spirit to matchup just because they struggle to take the oneshot knockout. So, like that's another deck that I see as as on the upand up. ATP just kind of resurging back into relevancy. I think becauseof a few reason but I think primarily because of kind of a shift awayfrom hammers of the general metagame. And definitely yeah, and so I thinkspear tomb now, you know, has another kind of tough matchup. Thatis a very good deck as opposed to just, you know, just havingDragon Pultez like the tier one kind of you know if he matchup. Nowyou have a another tier one ATP Z deck that will give you problems.And and I think personally for me, I think the ATPEZ is going tobe a choice of a lot of players. Yeah, so I think that's athat brings an interesting point that I specifically want to touch on it aswell. ATPZ versus combos option use specifically called out when you're talking at there'sa lot of intricacies there. Yeah, and yeah, I mean this Pushuwill obviously like. You have to make certain accommodations to make both in yourplay style and in your matchups to make the Combos as she and really effective. And then ATPEZ has other areas where it's really really shines. In youropinion, which of the two is the better choice for this weekend? IfI were playing, I would go with ATPEC, but I think we're justkind of splitting hairs at this point. It's really like what shade of bluewould you like? Do you like Cerulian or navy? You know, theyboth kind of feel like a similar flavor of the same dish, to borrowa cooking reference, and so I I think they both have a lot ofmerits. Now I personally am more comfortable with ATPEC. And again, wewere talking about a lot of decks are just generally shifting away from hammers.That might not be the case for the Players Cup, and that's what wehave seen in the perission of the metagame. And so you have an Atpez andyou can tech for the combosation matchup by playing either, you know,to big charm or to frying and something that forces them to have to,you know, go around as osh in. Yeah, and so if you dothat, then you know they have to have tool scrapper at the righttime, and there's that's the big challenge there. But ATP Z versus Ashenagainst the field, I think it's almost a wash. I don't really Icouldn't really say like, Oh, yes, this ATPC definitely has a better matchupagainst this as opposed to combosation. They both are just kind of thatsame flavor of taking the extra prizes and using Zoshen as a main attacker.So can't really you know, you're splitting hairs when you're saying, Oh,yes, this matchup is a little bit more favorite or or a little lessfavored. I think they both kind of feel pretty similar. Yeah, atleast in the absence of crushing Camer I would yes, yes, right,but then you know, there's always again. It's that same idea where players mightstart to foresee that and maybe incorporated cards like crushing Hammer, but thenthat lead to cards like, you know, the combos Ash and deck being moresuccessful, and you know it's as well. To an extent, Ithink also, if you are going to play Atpez, you just throw inthree, crushing our three energy switch, because I've been I've been playing withthem. Yeah, the three energy switch, the higher count. I've been reallytrying to push that in kind of my testing and finding that it's justit's not just useful on the first turn, but it's also useful in the laterturns. And again, since ATPEC is kind of coming back and we'relooking at a shift away from hammers, but since ATPC is coming back,then you want that higher count of energy switch so that you can get thefirst turn ATP attack off in the Mirror, specially going a second yeah, yeah, exactly, and so I like the higher count. You play threeenergy switch. Gives you a lot of mobility. I've also really liked,in terms of the ATP decks, that...

...they can get by without playing Geraciand that is that. Those are the builds that I have really enjoyed,the ones that play a, you know, at least one to then a probablytoo, and then an elder Goss and then you're just kind of goingfor as fast as you can and then playing a bunch of things like eitheracrobike or the order pad and just getting all your stuff out as soon asyou can and not really caring about that mid to late game. Yeah,and with the advent, of course, of Dragon Bolt, it's harder andharder to justify the space for Multiple Tracy on your board, and that's talkedabout this time. Yes, exactly, exactly. So we're seeing them.The decks being built in a way to accommodate the kind of x factor thatDragon Paul has. We talked about on the cast a lot in the past, where Dragon Paul just has these kind of intangibles that make it this reallygood deck, and one of the things that it does is it just snipesthose set up pokemon really, really well. It makes playing down a Geraci areal liability and if you're playing a deck that's focused around Geraci, thereare times where you just like you know you really need to have one becauseyour hand is kind of dead at the end of the game, but thenyou also know that playing it down, if you're facing against Dragon Poult,could literally mean you lose the game just by doing that. So it isthat's a really interesting thing as well. I think going away from the DRACIbuilds of Atpez is what we will see. What I've been liking and I thinkjust fares a little bit better in the drag pole matchup. Yeah,so I think you and I are largely on the same page. We're bothpretty big SASHI and fans. Both pretty big ATPS Oshtion fans, have beenfor a while now. I think it's found a nice foothold in this format. I also I'm a big fan of the COMBOS ashing because I like thethe tempo of the deck. Yeah, sure, so it's really fun toplay, but I think at he's Ashen brings like an extra level of consistencyin its game plan that is hard to match with any other deck. Right. But I think we've called out a specific deck multiple times now and tothe point where we have to specifically delve into it, and that's, ofcourse, going to be the dragon pult deck. Yeah, like we've mentionedbefore, Dragon Bolt puts a lot of pressure on those spirit toumb decks,which the spirit toumb decks are putting a lot of pressure on unchecked Zashi index, and so there's like a obviously there's a somewhat of a triangle.I think sash and probably bears better against spirit tum the spirit tum fairs againstthe check and folk. Yeah, right, right, but dragon bolt is isa huge deck. It's been really popular at all the limbless events.It's just a cool, fun deck. People love damage spread. I lovedamn spread. Yeah, do you think Zashi and is a top tier choiceheading into this weekend and if so, why? Dragon Pult or, sorry, Dragon Poult? Do you think dragged pull remains a top to your choiceheading into this weekend and if so, why? Yeah, for sure.I just think it'll be the play for a lot of the just I thinkgenerally better players will play tend to shift towards Dragon Pultz. I feel likeit's the deck that just has the most skill involved in terms of, youknow, you're placing damage counters. I mean so anytime you have that kindof choice on that kind of scale, you're going to have players that playit better and players to play a worse. I think some of the biggest positivesfor dragon pults are very solid cephalon matchups, has a really you know, it has a decent time into Zoshan Combo decks and then can just reallykind of run almost every deck kind of out of the field. It takescare a lot of the rogue things. It has good, you know,matchups against things like mill and so I generally just see Dragon Pultz like alongsidepeak ram is, like the safe plays for this tournament. Yeah, andsomething that I think is really interesting about decks currently if they really punish slowstarts from your opponent. Yeah, and so what I mean by that isif you whip early on the SPIRITUMB decks get a free turn of counters,the ATPDX get a free attachment. The dragon full decks put damage all overyour board before you can do anything. So, if I had to sayone thing heading into Players Cup, it's have a consistent deck. Yes,that's more important, I think, than teching for your matchups, because evenif you're teched for these various matchups, they get such a leap and boundahead of you if you happen to stumble. Yeah, and that's true. That'strue for all of the act you mentioned so far and also true forthe other deck that you plugged slightly there and pe Kurram. Yeah, Ifigure on infamously punishes you if it if you're slow to start, because theythat's that's right. Yeah, I mean we talked about a consistent clock ofATP but peak Ram almost has just that more consistent clock. You're pretty muchlike if you're if you're not getting a turn to full blitz, like somethinghas gone horribly, horribly wrong right,...

...and so it puts a lot ofpressure on it. We saw it, you know, in I'll use thelimitless for final standings as kind of like our barometer for the Players Cup,and we just saw an insane amount of peak ram make top sixteen. Itwas six peak Rom, I believe, in the top sixteen, which isjust pretty absurd. Now it didn't win, didn't make finals, but it hadsuch a strong showing that just put I mean it just says, Hey, this deck is still very, very relevant because it has all these toolsavailable to it and it's consistent it and it can wan shot and it cansnipe the bench. Just a lot of things going for peak Ram, andI expected to be the most played deck heading into the weekend. Interesting.So then you're saying you're if putting a call to arms, then for thespirit tomb players, I don't know called arms for that. Yeah, Imean it's like, but then so spear tomb, maybe if you're expecting tohit a lot of peak ram and then like Blas Cephalon. Also, ifyou're expecting to hit a lot of peak gram I I don't know quite youknow, a lot of these decks just kind of feel like like, youknow, you're throwing your hands up in the air, because they all justhave this little like the margin. Your kind of winning in the margins insome of the up where I'm not really feeling like, oh, it's ahundred, you know, it's an Autowin for one deck. There are thereare certainly some matchups, I think, like peak Aromi to drag a poledis very solidly favored for Peak Ram. But a lot of these matchups arekind of well, if, you know, if they play this one card andthey hit it at this right time, then they can win the matchup orwhatever it is. They feel a lot, you know, of acrossthe board just even matchups. So it's hard to say like, oh,yes, since peak ram is good, then absolutely everyone's spirit play spirit tomb. It's hard to say that. I think sure, sure, and Ithink this Meta is relatively close amongst the top tier decks. In my opinion. That, and feel free to descend with me here, that Tapp Tier, and I wouldn't fault you for playing any of them. WOULD BE HISOPTION? Variance be a combo an ATP, maybe dragged pult, be Pe Kurram, Spirit Tomb, and I think bill cephalon kind of fits itself justoutside of that that range. Yeah, yeah, and I do like BlissCephalon as a deck guy. I only haven't said anything about anything negative aboutthe any of these decks. I would stay away from something like ultimate meutwo. That's probably not a deck just for me that I would ever recommend somebodyto play. But I mean even a deck like Bill Cephalon, like Ithink that's a great choice for this tournament. And you look at you can dothings against your bad matchups. I mean you you house Peek Ram,you know spear tomb is it can be one. It just you know,I is is very close. They have a little bit more of a easierway to drum up attackers than you do, but it can be. You know, you're both these one prize decks and then you know, something likecombosation. You know, okay, maybe potentially like a decent, decent matchup, depending on whether or not they can get out there one prizor and ifyou can get around it. Drag a Pault. There are some things youcan do with Plis Cephalon into dragon pulse. So, like it's generally a badmatchup, I think, for Blis Cephalon, but not by much.I wouldn't say by a ton. But you can go crammer at. Ifyou gonn early cramerant into a dragon pult, then you're generally out of an advantagebecause you're just kind of forcing the action when Dragon Paul wants to justhold back or at least three turns try to get a couple of dragon pulpedbuilt up. Yeah, so if you can force the early crammer ant onthem, then you know, the game changes a lot. There's yeah,again there's just like generally the strategy is against these. A lot of thesedecks is very you know, it's just very close amongst these decks and maybea little bit of a different strategy change or a different tech here and thereat the right time can maybe win the game for you. So are thereany decks that you've seen, either like on the fringe or that a somewhatpopular within the rebel clash format, that you think are just not it,that you shouldn't play this weekend Um and that you absolutely shouldn't play like.I wouldn't look at anything metubeased to play this weekend. I think it's alittle too vollatle I wouldn't look at mill this weekend. I wouldn't look atlike firebox at all for this weekend. Those are the three that really standout to me. OBSTACLEON Obstagon, I don't like it. I don't thinkit's a bad play. I do think that if spear tomb is on theway out then that's a good matchup for obstacle. That it loses, sure, so I don't love that either. I would look at obstacleonists as like, if you expect peak rom to be...

...big, I would hate to runinto a lot of peak rom as an obstacle player. You can beat it, it's not crazy, but it's just very, very difficult to get aroundthe paralysis and the sniping and whatever else that they play in, you know, in peak rom to kind of deal with with obstacle and it's kind oflike these soft counters that Pek on play. So I would just be scared toplay obstacle because you're going to face a lot of peak on players thathave probably played the deck, you know. I mean that's like the oldest deckthat we have. So everyone knows how to play peak ran and theplay style is really been the same entire yeah, yeah, exactly. SoI would just be scared to play that match up if I were the obstacleplayer. Sure, yeah, that matchup is definitely tough, and then youloose to dragon bolt too. Yeah. So, yeah, it's hard torecommend that one. Yeah, there's definitely, definitely some difficulties. They are forthe goons, unfortunately. So I think we've assembled quite the array ofdecks here. I think shew and I are largely on the same page aboutthat five or so decks that sit at the top. Let's talk about whatwe actually expect, though. Do we expect the Meta to be largely distributedbetween those? I personally think that peak ram is probably going to be oneof, if not the most popular decks. However, I'll put an asterisk bythat that there we found that glitch of the ground, not you andI specifically, but there was a glitch found with tags, which, yeah, and there is a workaround of just to play slower. But you know, I have to imagine the glitch is more wellknown than the workaround, andI wonder if that alone will cause peaker im to significantly lose a player base. I don't know, maybe, maybe it could. I would say thatthe people that are really, you know, looking to play pe Kurram have probablybeen playing it for a long time at least. Have a lot ofexperience with peak ram has like a primary deck. So I would think thatthose people, you know, would be all caught up to date, youknow, on the the bug and like it wouldn't really face I. SoI feel like get these miss the one tweet that announced how to get aroundthe bug. And what's that? I feel like it's easy to miss,like the one tweet that's out there about how to deal with the bug.Fair enough, fair enough, I mean maybe Pokemon is sent letter out tothe players. I don't know. I mean even that, like, Idon't know, I would be a little nervous to play be here because,like I just wouldn't want to randomly lose a game because that happened. Yeah, that would be really sad. I as as soon as all these bugsgot kind of announced like that, the tag switch, but also, ifyou remember, a couple of days ago, like the double supporter. How withthe professors, like I'm a little nervous at how this player's Cup isgonna go. Not to take us too far off topic of the Metagame,but I'm a little bit nervous that. You know, I'm hoping that theydon't like discover a new bug. Yeah, that's so. Let's put a painin bugs for now. We can come back to like, you know, systemically. How what do we think of the Player Cup? Yeah,what do you think of met it though? I think under in an untouched world, peak ROM was probably the most popular deck. Yeah, yeah,I would put it. I would put it at about like twenty percent ofthe field. Like, I think it will be just that popular. Playerswill play it. It's always been played. It's the oldest deck in the format. We just got trainer kids, like anyone that didn't have it,like, let's say you're a player that had a lot of tickets that grindit into the Players Cup, but maybe you didn't have a Meta deck.You know, you're looking at what the play. You got this new battlekit that you could go and play peak ram, you know, almost rightoff rip. You know, I think it'll just be fifteen to twenty percentof the Meta game. Yeah, I totally agree. Are there any otherdecks that you think will stand out in particular? I mean we called outwhat we think are the best decks. You think those all sit at likea similar range? Yeah, I mean if you combine Zashin variants, thenyou know, then you're looking at something that competes with Peak Aro, maybein the fifteen to twenty five percent arranged. But you know, if you're separatingthem, I would expect ATP to have about ten percent and in theCombo to have, you know, ten to fifteen percent of the metagame.Dragon Paul will be played, I think, by the better players and will see, you know, I won't be played a ton. I think it'llhave somewhere around, you know, five to ten percent, a little biton the lower side, and then you have kind of everything else. LikeBlis CEFFALAN. I expect to see about ten percent of the metal and thenspear Tom Maybe about five percent, and then everything else in that last whatevertwenty five percent. That's sure. Yeah, do some Napkin math on that one. Yeah, somebody, let me know, leave a comment on theon the show and let me know how close I was. I largely agreewith your tearing off there. I think peek aroum will sit at the top. You'll get sasheen variance occupying around the same realm combined. Yeah, andthen you'll stagger down with pretty much exactly...

...how you expect them to fall interms of popular yeah, yeah, exactly. And some, some maybe outside decksthat maybe could perform well. I look at one being a Lucario Melmetal. That's been a deck that's just kind of been around. It's alwaysbeen just around. It's just been around like I would consider it rogue justbecause it is kind of based around this counter strategy. And so Lucario Melmetal can can go against peak ram, can beat composation and drag a polelike. Those are the two matchups that it was really destined to perform wellagainst. So that's another deck that I would look at and say, youknow, if somebody grind it in with Lucario Meil metal, like I wouldnot be surprised at all. Yeah, for sure. So let's then talkabout those glitches and, systemically, about the Players Cup we've called out forwhat feels way too long about the TCG Oh client being relatively flawed. Yeah, and now we're at the point where there is actual money on the line. Yeah. So to recap some of the glitches we've seen so far,there's the one we called out with peak ram with tag switch. So,for the listeners, if you play a tag switch in present day, soearly July of two thousand and twenty, if you have to be listening inthe future, if you play a tag switch and you happen to go todo an action before the animation on the tag which is complete, your gamejust freezes effectively and you're unable to do anything else. So, yeah,yeah, you you just had to pass out, or time out, Iassume it. I don't even remember the animation, but I don't know ifit like if it comes back after like on your next turn. No,I don't think you can do anything ever. Oh, you okay. Yeah,that's so yeah, it's so weird. So we've seen that. We've seenthe double supporter. Yeah, and do you know what happens with thatone? I think you have to play a research first. I don't knowquite the extent to that, but I think it's like you have to playresearch first and then you can play another supporter. Do you think folk Iwill do anything for that one, like, if people actively use that, howdo you how do you work around that? I mean, I guessthat one's like a choice. Yeah, that's so, like you can activelydecide whether or not. Yeah, that one seems like. That one seemslike an email gets sent out and they say, Hey, if you're caughtdouble supportering, than you're eliminated from the tournament. That one seems like apretty easy one because I have judges and they can look at the game log. I think it's still counted in the game log. So I would havemade that one. Should be pretty easy. And then there's also I don't quiteknow if they fix this yet, but they're at least in the pastthere's been you know, the metal frying pan, or excusing not metal fryingPan, metal goggles. They did fix the goggles. They did fix thegoggles. Okay, but just a document that. There have been a fewother bugs and there's probably some more bugs that we still haven't figured I there'sa tub sent to yeah, the Zambasento into the black market. Yeah,so context there. Black market. You need to have a dark energy onyour pokemon to prevent the fries from being taken Zambas and to remove special energy. So if that dark energy happens to be a rainbow, the way itshould work is the Zambas that there should attack the effective it's attack to activate, discarding the rainbow, and then the knockout check happens after effects of attacks. So you should have no energy on the Pokemon at the time of knockoutcheck. And I I just don't think like the client really has those phasesto be yes, like there's actual steps that you're supposed to take when youattack, and I don't think the client actually thinks about those steps. Soit just kind of does it all at once. Yes, and then soit's like knocked out and the energies are rude at the same time, right, and so it does the back while the energy is still on it.It's just it's bizarre, but that that is decided games in recent history exactly. Yeah, you're so right. You're so right. So I'm really hoping, for for everyone's sake, that this is a very smooth event, butthere are kind of these little indicators that it might not go as smooth aswe want it to, and I'm really hoping that, you know, asit's the first event for Pokemon, that that either it goes very smoothly orit doesn't, and it's like a huge wake up call, if it alreadyhasn't been, that something. Maybe more resources need to be need to besiphoned into this, because we probably won't have organized play for at least therest of this year, and I I couldn't see it happening, you know, at least in the first half of two thousand and twenty one. SoI just hope that things get solved with the with the online client, andthat these bugs can get fixed really quickly and effectively and that more resources areput into the online game because, as...

...we've seen, it's been very popular, I would say. I mean it. It had a lot of entrance,a lot of people are working towards this and it could be a reallygreat thing. Yeah, and I and we don't say this out of likea lack of love, right, like we want to see the game succeedand be the best it can be. So it's unfortunate in it that inmy mind, it's not at that state yet. You know, we aren't. Yes, we can be quite yet. Yeah, yeah, well, andthen you look at just how much is on the line, like we'retalking thousands of multiple, multiple thousands of dollars or, you know, onfife hundred or whatever it is. It's like that is just you don't wantto be trying to get into the top four and then you play a taxswitch and you, you know, do another animation too quickly, like it'sjust that that would just be such a heartbreaking way to go out. Andhope it doesn't gun like that. So I sincerely hope that everyone has clean, Fun Games in the Players Cup. I'm excited to see how it pansout. I hope that we don't have anything so impactful that it drastically changesthe results of the event. Yeah, in the event that we do,I hope that JW's right and that and serving serves as a wake up callto that we need to have more active engagement with our development and make surethat the game is functional. You know, that's that's just the nice way wecan put it, that it's functional to the standards that it should beright and you know, we can't expect pure perfection. Like obviously any anysort of gaming client is going to have bugs. Right that's just that's justthe nature of the beast. But we can do our best to minimize themand actively be engaged with our development teams and make sure that they're eliminated asquickly as possible, especially if there's something that has a significant impact on thegame. So I absolutely see more resources. They're going forward. Absolutely and andreally I I can't size enough that. I hope everyone has a great timewith the Players Cup. Who's playing, you did earn it, no matterwhat people say, no matter what trash people talk like. You putthe effort in. You earn that position in the Players Cup. I hopethat you pick the deck that you personally enjoy. For me, that wouldbe as ash and deck. For dw that sounds like it also be asash and deck, and you just put you play your heart out man like. Yeah, absolutely, this is a really this is really cool thing.It'll be just very interesting to see the results and, like Riley said,I wish everyone that plays in the Players Cup like all the best. Ihope you have just a great, phenomenal experience. I hope that Pokemon,you know, just runs a very smooth event. I'm sure that they will. I hope in that and I just enjoy it because, yes, likeRiley said, you put in the work, you did your time, you playedby the rules and you're going to, you know, potentially get this reward, and so just enjoy it, have a great time and play yourbest. Yeah, yeah, and I hope that Pokemon does more stuff likethis because, you know, they announced our season but, like we talkedout last week, it's what is realistically, yeah, possible for a season.Yeah, at least, you know, and it granted to W and Icome with the biased lends the United States, where covid nineteen is justa mess right now and continuing to get worse. So, yes, yes, you know, maybe in Europe they could feasibly hold tournaments, but certainlynot in the United States of America for the foreseeable future. That's right.Yeah, for theently. It's kind of sucks, man. I really wantto be able to play physical cards. Yeah, it does really suck.I've been missing it recently. I've been playing in the old polka stats retroformats and I've been having a great time, but it just gets me fired upto play, you know, irl competitions. Is there a retro formatthat you've particularly enjoyed. Well, this is my first one. I'm doingthe breakthrough to Crimson invasion. So this is decidualize or arc. Yeah,syll be on stall, guardivoirs or Granninja, buzz will like and rock. Solike a rock or well, so the problem is that I would haveplayed pod, but you have to go pass, pass on your first turns. So you can't make use of whimpods retreat. Oh what? Yeah,yeah, so, so, because the just the rule, because you couldn'thave like retro format rules. You can't change the rules of the game.So, like the rules back then are different than what they are now.So in order to try to mitigate that, you have to go pass, passfor the opening turn so that the first person can play a supporter.And then it just it's a little complex. Oh Yeah, I think about thathaving an impact on wind pod. Yeah. Yeah, so then youcan't retreat because sometimes you, you know, a lot of times actually, youwould like to retreat. That's promber. You still got it, did rock? I guess you do. You Do, you do, but Iplayed I'm playing Zark cardivore. Yeah,...

...that's a fun doubt. I mean, imagine not playing puzzles in that format. Yeah, I couldn't see it,bro It, couldn't it? Puzzles are what a crazy card. Iknow, I know. I was just reminded like I hadn't touched these cardsin two years and just getting back to playing this format. It was alot of fun. I didn't play a ton back then, like I wasworking during that time period, but I definitely still, like was caught upwith all the in their nationals and still try to do some local events,and I just yeah, they had so fun, dude, with the puzzlesand you get back all these crazy combos and so the play like one ofcards and reliably play them like once or twice or three times in a game. You're telling me, man, you're telling me filled the regional off thatthat's right, puzzle of time and what a classic. Is there any formatthat you'd love to revisit? Is there one that sticks out to you?Well, I'd like to go back to I think it was two thousand andthirteen four Wayne regionals format, because I had the best deck of Em Poleonrosaraid recycle and I didn't win the tournament and I was very sure that Iwant that I would have won the tournament because I had good matchups against thedark decks, which there's like dark hydrogone, there's like just straight dark. Therewas hoo, you know, which is a good matchup because you gota water attacker. There was, you know, just a lot of goodmatchups for my ampolling on deck that I created that I'd never got the chanceto showcase because back then it was a it was a bracket style top thirtytwo, and I ended up facing an okay match up, like a prettyfavorable matchup, but then had a very bad starter all three games. OhNo, just couldn't. And then I had bad luck at the end ofgame three and it's a whole thing, but I will go into it anymore. But I would like to revisit that formaker to prove that I had thebest. Well, I hope you can get that opportunity one day, sir. Great, thankfully, a TCG, I should have that whole era ofcars. So yeah, exactly, so there maybe, maybe, where there'sa will, there's a way. There certainly is. I mean you couldhost it yourself. You've been doing your tournaments too. Yeah, I have. Yeah, that's a good plug for these tournaments. I've been running tournamentsfor the last couple months over my discord. So if you are not in thediscord and you would like to play tournaments, just follow me on twitter. I think it's in the twitter bioh or it's in Youtube. Follow meat Youtubecom Flex Daddy Righteous, but doing a lot of videos recently just aboutdifferent, different products that have been coming out. And you know, theseretro formats have been really fun to play. I think they offer a lot ofinsight into just how I think about matchups. I think they've been reallyvalue. Like I've been going back and watching them again and it's kind ofthe mind set that I have during these games as I think, really valuableeven to a person that isn't planning. I'm playing this format, but alot of things you can learn, like, for instance, the last round thatI played was really interesting because I played against a deck that I wasn'ttoo familiar with in syl be once tall, and when we are first playing,I didn't know that he was playing sylvion stall. So I made somemistakes in my gameplay and then it's like kind of I go over how youknow, you can learn about a matchup in the first game and then comeback and change your strategy up for games two and three, and that's justa really interesting thing. I think that would benefit a lot of players.So that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, very sick. So I think we'vereached a good point to start opening up to chat. If you'll have anyquestions, be it about the current Meta, the Players Cup or any of thesepast formats, or general thoughts about poke, now as a good timeto ask. I see one in the chat here. Count the money.Ask Is Peakur? I'm going to be good. Post Rotation Front theise?Please say no. Couldn't see it. I think the law us of itlose a lot of things, but the loss of the electric power is goingto be a big, big hit for peak rom just because it's going tobe it's going to rely on bolt on to get the one shots, whichnot saying that bolt on can do it, but it just takes all this energyattached to do it. So I don't think Pekrom is going to surviveright certainly, I mean it literally cannot survive in its current state, butI don't think it'll be even you know, a tier two day might be atier two deck post rotation. Yeah, Mike, my guess is that it'llprobably fall down verily significantly, electric power being the main, the mainreason peaker, I'm really needs it to get the numbers that keeps it outof Tier One deck. Yeah, because what make Peter Wrong so good?Is it inconsistently one to two hit Ko...

...everything in the format. So fullblits for one hundred and fifty just isn't as impressive. As you know,doing all sorts of crazy math right. I mean it's crazy. How thatten damage, and we talked a little bit about magic numbers and magic numbershere for Peak Rom is one hundred and sixty. It plays an electric powerso now it can hit one hundred and eighty. So can one shot likea Dedenne and elda Goss. Those are very relevant pokemon to be able toone shot on the on the you know, opponent's bench, and and just thatten damage difference, like we're we're not talking about a lot here,but that ten damage difference as I think, what's going to be the gatekeeper forPeak Rom. Like if you could do one hundred and sixty, youmight have a you might have a thought that okay. Well, you cantoo. Shot, shot a lot of the v Max has, you know, and then you can just make it work. Eventually you'll get enough energyon the board. You can get a bolt on, going, going,but it just doesn't look that way at one hundred and fifty and losing thedamage boost. You could do something like with the vitality band, but Ijust couldn't. I don't know, I can't see and get scrapped between turnsif you're relying on one hundred and sixty twice for to a can and youknow, grant like taggle still a thing, and so, you know, Peteraround probably isn't wiped off the map. But I think right, because thisis because me is gone, I believe. No, it's so nouse. Knock on. You gave it after be Grup. Oh, you'reright, you're right. Yeah, yes, I'm calm. Sorry, sorry,yeah, you're right. So figure I was here. That for sure. View it. Yeah, okay, yeah, get bodied. Yeah,yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think what keep seek around reallyrelevant, though, is that it can do a lot of burst damage withthose electric powers. And Yeah, so losing that, you might as welljust play like a more straightforward like bolt on variant or some other like electricdeck that can hit those weaknesses but also has some more niche uses, likethe vicable right, right, exactly. We have one here hyped on andtelling on vmax. Yes, I really like in telling on JW is abigtation to everything. They potentially slow down a little bit, and I thinkthat is exactly what it's telling on needs. What about double welder, referencing jollyflying man? Double Weldre's such a cool deck to emerge from the lastSunday Open. I mean, I don't know who I mean. I createdthat deck. So, yeah, I know it's a good deck. Yeah, you didn't create double elder, Bro I did. That's not true.Name someone who had a youtube video about it before me. A YOUTUBE VIDEO? Maybe not, but I know for sure you didn't create the idea,Bra Bro. You know what do you think? Who Do you think createdthe idea? I've I created it on my own. Did I create theidea? Right, you're like that guy on here, like that guy ontwitter who said that he invented the Frankenstein Monster. Just see that. No, I didn't see this. This is some twitter thread about how, likethe author of Frankenstein should be, you know, watted, because she wasa female author who created a long standing, like horror staple creature. Okay,this random dude comes up and he's like, well, actually, beforeI even heard of the Frankenstein Monster, I came up with the same thing. It's so, and that was written in like the eighteen hundred. It'slike, like, I guess I you also lived in. You lived ina world where there was post frankenside monsters. So like yours, probably suddenly influencedby the culture to right, right. That's funny, so groovy. That'sreally funny. Will control survive and how might it change? Just controleven really lose a lot from rotation? I don't believe. I mean,I don't believe so. I don't believe. So I need to go look uplike, yeah, I need to go look up the exact cards.Yeah, it's I want to say that control survival will just be pred Imean control loses a ranger. Yeah, I guess it does. ARTICUO GXas well. HMM, yeah, without a ranger, you probably are aredonezo with typical control lists. I think you'll will probably see a shift backto wall control. If anything, if we come out with cards that canfacilitate that. So something more like the Sidu I based. Yeah, somethinglike its sid you I Hoopa, kind of like echoing back to hooppa kindof decks. Yeah, I can't believe forgot out anger, but more likehoopa style decks. Also, stuff like the stones Joarner v Max that islike half control, half attacker, where it's like really tanky and just survives. And sure, how the last yeah, yeah, exactly, and then gettingthe new thus it's like reverse strong energy. Yeah, look, Iforget what it's called. It's like yeah, stone, strong, stone energy.Maybe that sounds about right. Stone, tough energies like thick and I reallyI'm a big fan of the new...

...special stual energy. That it's interestingto see the Metal Energy trademark effect pretty much be put on a fighting energy. Yeah, right, I'm right it the all these new specials are veryinteresting. Yeah, I like them a lot, for sure. Same here. What else we got? Chat? I'm excited to see what the futurebrings, and that not just rotation. But I think this era of Pokemonhas been interesting. I've liked the card design a lot. It's been funto see, sure and I hope we get to Collab Riley, I hopeyou want to like play some more online stuff so we can make some deckstogether. Yeah, yeah, I've been struggling. They like build up themotivation of playing the online things. I was talking to a friend about thisthe other day. Yeah, and not really for any particular reason, likeI still love Pokemon, like I still will like play solitaire hands of myphysical decks. But yes, like something about these online things just not scratchingmy itch and I don't know how I can how I can get you toscratch that Edgell I've have. That has been interesting, though, is myfriends is started cubing in tabletop simulator. Yes, which that actually that soundsfun. I'll yes, absolutely so, maybe, maybe off to upload acube of my own, upload like Andrews Cube into the Oh yeah, let'sdo Andrews Cube and put in one rush res Art. Yeah, the onlyway to play it. Last question of the day from countdown money. Ifand when would any vand says changes be announced for expanded so what kind ofthings do we think we would be banned? I think scoop up nat shame ayx, like I think the usual suspects. Trevn noir, good contender, Gangar Mimic, good contender. Yeah, the melodic? Melodic? Yeah,melodic would be a good one too. And your twelve asking what's solitaire handsjust like playing out the deck as if there was an opponent there.Usually, usually what I do is I'll just like shuffle at the deck,play it and I'll assume the worst possible thing happens to me every single turnand see if I could do something about it. So, like the oneof the main deck I have sleeved off right now is just my sterilax deckfrom Collinsville, and so you know I'll get to do Hudo to be all, get parallel city to every now and then, right. Yeah, soit just going back to Dan. When would we expect expanded bands to beannounced? I don't foresee pokemon doing an expanded format online tournament, although Iobviously have no insider information. If they did do an expanded tournament, Iwould expect there to be bands before then. Yeah, so I would guess thewhen is just predicated on when the first like tier two, sanctioned expandedto that exactly. Yeah, so you might get some crazy lead challenges,though. One day pretty band. That's true. So you know, Iguess you could steep that and if you want, that's right, sure could. So very good guys. Thank you again for listening tonight's we had justa great chat about the metagame and what to expect for the Players Cup andit was just a really great time having you please make sure, if you'renot already follow Riley here, leave us a comment. If you're listening onspotify or Itunes, and we have just been. I'm really proud. Riley. Would just been the most consistent tag team, you know, duo herein the game for like the last two years, and that's just really,really great. I'm very proud of our work, me too, man.So be sure to check everyone out on our respective social media's. I'm smilesof barrels on twitter, and we got real John will throw on twitter andof course, JW Switch Channel Flex Daddy righteous also as YouTube. Jaw isgoing to be streaming three days a week still. That's right, three daysa week at does an awesome job. I've always thought youw had a knackfor streaming, which is the whole reason we started this in the first place, and with that I will catch you all next time peace see it.

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