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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 21 · 1 year ago

2-21. The Goblet of Players

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys sit down to analyze the Player's Cup. The culmination of a month of effort is finally here! What deck will stand on top?

How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert, joined yet again by my good, good friend JW Curry. Wall JW. How you doing today, Riley? I'm doing great. How are you? I am doing well. Then I got to say I'm really tired today. Okay, yeah, okay, well, we'll keep it short and sweet. It's nothing to do with my thoughts of the podcast. I just woke up and I've been tired all day. You know, you ever have the yeas I do have the I always think like something is wrong with me, like my health or something, or like, I don't know, just I something is wrong with my brain or something, and now I'm in a downward spiral. Yeah, this is it. You're doomed now. Yeah, you're right, like my life will never be the same because I woke up and I was tired and just as bad. I know. I'm kind of having the opposite problem, though, where I'm waking up really, really early. Yeah, I can't figure out why. I like I used to sleep for eight hours, nine hours, like, if I could, like it was very consistent. I would wake up at a very consistent time, right about eight o'clock, seve hundred thirty eight, and now I'm waking up at like six, six thirty, and I've had like pretty much high energy the whole day, or at least enough energy to give you through the day. So I don't know what's going on there. Yeah, I always say that it's more about the cycle than it is about like the quantity of sleep that you get right when you wake up. Like I wake up pretty early on on weekends included, and you know, if I as long as I wake up when I actually, you know, physically just ready to wake up, then I used right feel pretty rested. Right, it's it's one of the alarm interrupts you midway through your your life cycle that you get destroyed. Oh for sure, for sure at least the virus or it's. So, do you do anything fun over the holiday weekend? No, we tried to stay as safe as possible, trying to think about what Anne and I did. If it's not written down on my calendar, probably wasn't notable enough to speak out loud. We played some games of terraforming Mars. We cooked a trifle. Well, it's not really cooking, but it's a dessert. I guess we do have to cook. We Cook the Angel Food Cake, but a trifle is basically just I mean, you know what a trifle is before our listeners don't know what a trifle is. It's a dessert of many stacked layers. Usually there's like a custard layer and, you know, probably some fruit and some kind of cake or something like that. We ended up using Angel Food Cake, made it with strawberries. We put fresh strawberries, we put a lemon custard, we had a strawberry like compote that we put in there and then we topped that with whipped cream strawberries. Quite the quite the extravagant trifle you end up making it. I know, are you salivating it? I had my own dessert I made. I made these cookies. They're chacolate tipikies like nothing, you know, mind blowing. But I did something called Browning the butter, where you like, yeah, I'll sit in in the pan and then, yes, you put it in the fridge and like let it re solidify. Yeah, and it makes like a different, more like nutty solution. Yeah, and then what it leads to is the cookies stay like really soft and Yummy, even for like multiple days after baking them. So those were super good. I brought those in to the office and just set them. I individually bagged them all and put them outside my office for for like my team members on the project that I'm running to yeah, that's great. I bet they loved him. Yeah, yeah, they got good reviews out of cookies. Now nothing left. Well, it's probably good for your for your health. Yeah, yeah, I suppose. So. We've been watching this show, it's called final table, on Netflix, and the premise of the show is that there's pairs of chefs and they get together. You know, there's maybe like ten or fifteen chefs pairs that all get together and they have this cooking competition. But these are like not amateurs, they are, you know, world renowned Michelin Star Chefs, Uh Huh. And it's just been really interesting. They cook a different cuisine every round and then one person and gets voted off and I don't know, I think the production value is so high that I would just recommend it to anyone, even if they're not like a food person or even if they don't like food competitions. I think it's just been a good show. My wife and I've been really enjoying it. That's awesome. I've been. I finally caved in a started diving really deep into Avatar, the last year opender on Netflix. That's been fun to have you never seen it? Nowice I watched it as it's coming out as a oh the Kay, okay, but this is my first time like revisiting it and it's been really fun. It's a great show. It is a very good show.

Let's dive into poke though. So for those of you who are unaware, the Players Cup is just on the horizon. Everyone who's fought hard over the month of June is getting their big payoff with the Players Cup invitational tournament, so that top two hundred and fifty six players in North America are going to compete to get a top spot and get that stipend to one of the International Championships. So it's right really cool event, kind of the culmination of the effort for all those people who put those tournament tickets into to qualify. And so no doubt it's going to be an exciting show. Still in the rebel clash format, so I don't think we'll see anything to groundbreaking in the in the world of the Meta. But let's talk about what we think that will will end up looking like. So we're coming off the limitless invitational, where it ended up being that spear tomb was this definitely the king, finishing first and second with that to count variant with the a Vlt all doom count some other notable choices for that tournament. There was a stall deck that made an appearance, Zashi and Combo still showing, make a strong showing at to the dismay of a Zul that it he ran into the glitch one point into the tournament. Yes, but I still think a powerful deck. JW. What do you think coming off of limitless? Is Spirit Tomb still the main player heading into the player's cup? Well, I don't think so, and the reason is because spearit Tom was primarily a counter choice for the main decks. And so you look at a deck like, you know, Pika Ram, which spirit tomb absolutely obliterates, and and Pek Ram is, I still think, a very good choice for players in the Players Cup and also performed well pretty much across the board at every limitless qualifier. Yeah, among other you know, tournaments that were held online, but spiritum to me was the ultimate counter choice. It had a lot of texts that were specific to certain matchups that won the matchup but could be easily teched against. The primary example is the black market. Yeah, and if players didn't play any kind of counter stadium in their comboization deck, then they just almost automatically lost to that one single card. So, coming out of nowhere, that's a really good play. Right, if nobody's playing that in their combat stadium in their conversation, then you play the black market in your spirit too and you get that matchup like almost a free matchup against a tier one deck, like yes, you know, then that makes a strong choice. Now that everyone has figured out spirit tumb is this counterplay, I think a lot of these decks will be a lot more prepared for it. Yeah, so I definitely agree with a lot of what you said there. I also feel like just continuing on that van why Spirit Tom might not be the best choices. These are, you know, two hundred and fifty six players that are competing and I expect them to be just very invested and I expect them to be, you know, some of the better players are at least the most invested in online metagame, and so I think dragon pult will make a big showing and so that to me also really kind of hinder spirit tomb to the point that I don't Love Spirit Tom I think it will, you know, see play. I just don't think that I'll be a go too choice for a lot of players. Yeah, and so I think there's a lot of interesting points to digest. Their first thing you call out is that it was sort of a surprised counter pick. I I think I largely agree with that, but I was thinking I was on my way to get lunched today and I was thinking about the fact that Kevin talked about stuff like exactly what you're saying, like the black market being countered by stadiums and all sorts of other stuff that he had mentioned, like people teching in shuckles and special energy blocking pokemon and other miscellaneous text like even blizzard town as a potential tech. Now I was trying to think what I could do to a deck to spruce up its spirit to matchup right, and the more I thought about it, I actually felt like there wasn't a ton that could realistically be done that Spirit Tomb couldn't keep up with, and I'm sure you know what I mean by that. But like spirit Tom could similarly tech for the tax and and of course you end up in like a somewhat odd spiral where everyone's tacking for each other in different ways. Sure, so you know there's pushing pull there, but I think ultimately what I'm getting at is that I think spiritum is still a top contender. One...

...thing, I think you call it. That's that I think is more so troubling for spirit tomb is that dragged pult matchup. When we had Kevin on he very clearly laid out like his path the wind, but he also very specifically specified that it was difficult. Yeah, and so having to deal with a lot of dragon pull, it just seems exhausting if nothing else. Yeah, and I also worry about another matchup for spear tomb and that's the ATP Z matchup. Now atpz is, I personally like it. I mean ATPZ versus Combos EI. There are some intricacies there, but ATPEZ would, at least from my from my testing right, has a good matchup into ATP spirit tomb if you can play some big charm and there's some counterplay, if the spirit tum plays a tool scrapper and you have big charm on your zation and you know there's some counterplay there, but generally speaking, if you're able to get the ATP off, then you should win the spirit to matchup just because they struggle to take the oneshot knockout. So, like that's another deck that I see as as on the up and up. ATP just kind of resurging back into relevancy. I think because of a few reason but I think primarily because of kind of a shift away from hammers of the general metagame. And definitely yeah, and so I think spear tomb now, you know, has another kind of tough matchup. That is a very good deck as opposed to just, you know, just having Dragon Pultez like the tier one kind of you know if he matchup. Now you have a another tier one ATP Z deck that will give you problems. And and I think personally for me, I think the ATPEZ is going to be a choice of a lot of players. Yeah, so I think that's a that brings an interesting point that I specifically want to touch on it as well. ATPZ versus combos option use specifically called out when you're talking at there's a lot of intricacies there. Yeah, and yeah, I mean this Pushu will obviously like. You have to make certain accommodations to make both in your play style and in your matchups to make the Combos as she and really effective. And then ATPEZ has other areas where it's really really shines. In your opinion, which of the two is the better choice for this weekend? If I were playing, I would go with ATPEC, but I think we're just kind of splitting hairs at this point. It's really like what shade of blue would you like? Do you like Cerulian or navy? You know, they both kind of feel like a similar flavor of the same dish, to borrow a cooking reference, and so I I think they both have a lot of merits. Now I personally am more comfortable with ATPEC. And again, we were talking about a lot of decks are just generally shifting away from hammers. That might not be the case for the Players Cup, and that's what we have seen in the perission of the metagame. And so you have an Atpez and you can tech for the combosation matchup by playing either, you know, to big charm or to frying and something that forces them to have to, you know, go around as osh in. Yeah, and so if you do that, then you know they have to have tool scrapper at the right time, and there's that's the big challenge there. But ATP Z versus Ashen against the field, I think it's almost a wash. I don't really I couldn't really say like, Oh, yes, this ATPC definitely has a better matchup against this as opposed to combosation. They both are just kind of that same flavor of taking the extra prizes and using Zoshen as a main attacker. So can't really you know, you're splitting hairs when you're saying, Oh, yes, this matchup is a little bit more favorite or or a little less favored. I think they both kind of feel pretty similar. Yeah, at least in the absence of crushing Camer I would yes, yes, right, but then you know, there's always again. It's that same idea where players might start to foresee that and maybe incorporated cards like crushing Hammer, but then that lead to cards like, you know, the combos Ash and deck being more successful, and you know it's as well. To an extent, I think also, if you are going to play Atpez, you just throw in three, crushing our three energy switch, because I've been I've been playing with them. Yeah, the three energy switch, the higher count. I've been really trying to push that in kind of my testing and finding that it's just it's not just useful on the first turn, but it's also useful in the later turns. And again, since ATPEC is kind of coming back and we're looking at a shift away from hammers, but since ATPC is coming back, then you want that higher count of energy switch so that you can get the first turn ATP attack off in the Mirror, specially going a second yeah, yeah, exactly, and so I like the higher count. You play three energy switch. Gives you a lot of mobility. I've also really liked, in terms of the ATP decks, that...

...they can get by without playing Geraci and that is that. Those are the builds that I have really enjoyed, the ones that play a, you know, at least one to then a probably too, and then an elder Goss and then you're just kind of going for as fast as you can and then playing a bunch of things like either acrobike or the order pad and just getting all your stuff out as soon as you can and not really caring about that mid to late game. Yeah, and with the advent, of course, of Dragon Bolt, it's harder and harder to justify the space for Multiple Tracy on your board, and that's talked about this time. Yes, exactly, exactly. So we're seeing them. The decks being built in a way to accommodate the kind of x factor that Dragon Paul has. We talked about on the cast a lot in the past, where Dragon Paul just has these kind of intangibles that make it this really good deck, and one of the things that it does is it just snipes those set up pokemon really, really well. It makes playing down a Geraci a real liability and if you're playing a deck that's focused around Geraci, there are times where you just like you know you really need to have one because your hand is kind of dead at the end of the game, but then you also know that playing it down, if you're facing against Dragon Poult, could literally mean you lose the game just by doing that. So it is that's a really interesting thing as well. I think going away from the DRACI builds of Atpez is what we will see. What I've been liking and I think just fares a little bit better in the drag pole matchup. Yeah, so I think you and I are largely on the same page. We're both pretty big SASHI and fans. Both pretty big ATPS Oshtion fans, have been for a while now. I think it's found a nice foothold in this format. I also I'm a big fan of the COMBOS ashing because I like the the tempo of the deck. Yeah, sure, so it's really fun to play, but I think at he's Ashen brings like an extra level of consistency in its game plan that is hard to match with any other deck. Right. But I think we've called out a specific deck multiple times now and to the point where we have to specifically delve into it, and that's, of course, going to be the dragon pult deck. Yeah, like we've mentioned before, Dragon Bolt puts a lot of pressure on those spirit toumb decks, which the spirit toumb decks are putting a lot of pressure on unchecked Zashi in dex, and so there's like a obviously there's a somewhat of a triangle. I think sash and probably bears better against spirit tum the spirit tum fairs against the check and folk. Yeah, right, right, but dragon bolt is is a huge deck. It's been really popular at all the limbless events. It's just a cool, fun deck. People love damage spread. I love damn spread. Yeah, do you think Zashi and is a top tier choice heading into this weekend and if so, why? Dragon Pult or, sorry, Dragon Poult? Do you think dragged pull remains a top to your choice heading into this weekend and if so, why? Yeah, for sure. I just think it'll be the play for a lot of the just I think generally better players will play tend to shift towards Dragon Pultz. I feel like it's the deck that just has the most skill involved in terms of, you know, you're placing damage counters. I mean so anytime you have that kind of choice on that kind of scale, you're going to have players that play it better and players to play a worse. I think some of the biggest positives for dragon pults are very solid cephalon matchups, has a really you know, it has a decent time into Zoshan Combo decks and then can just really kind of run almost every deck kind of out of the field. It takes care a lot of the rogue things. It has good, you know, matchups against things like mill and so I generally just see Dragon Pultz like alongside peak ram is, like the safe plays for this tournament. Yeah, and something that I think is really interesting about decks currently if they really punish slow starts from your opponent. Yeah, and so what I mean by that is if you whip early on the SPIRITUMB decks get a free turn of counters, the ATPDX get a free attachment. The dragon full decks put damage all over your board before you can do anything. So, if I had to say one thing heading into Players Cup, it's have a consistent deck. Yes, that's more important, I think, than teching for your matchups, because even if you're teched for these various matchups, they get such a leap and bound ahead of you if you happen to stumble. Yeah, and that's true. That's true for all of the act you mentioned so far and also true for the other deck that you plugged slightly there and pe Kurram. Yeah, I figure on infamously punishes you if it if you're slow to start, because they that's that's right. Yeah, I mean we talked about a consistent clock of ATP but peak Ram almost has just that more consistent clock. You're pretty much like if you're if you're not getting a turn to full blitz, like something has gone horribly, horribly wrong right,...

...and so it puts a lot of pressure on it. We saw it, you know, in I'll use the limitless for final standings as kind of like our barometer for the Players Cup, and we just saw an insane amount of peak ram make top sixteen. It was six peak Rom, I believe, in the top sixteen, which is just pretty absurd. Now it didn't win, didn't make finals, but it had such a strong showing that just put I mean it just says, Hey, this deck is still very, very relevant because it has all these tools available to it and it's consistent it and it can wan shot and it can snipe the bench. Just a lot of things going for peak Ram, and I expected to be the most played deck heading into the weekend. Interesting. So then you're saying you're if putting a call to arms, then for the spirit tomb players, I don't know called arms for that. Yeah, I mean it's like, but then so spear tomb, maybe if you're expecting to hit a lot of peak ram and then like Blas Cephalon. Also, if you're expecting to hit a lot of peak gram I I don't know quite you know, a lot of these decks just kind of feel like like, you know, you're throwing your hands up in the air, because they all just have this little like the margin. Your kind of winning in the margins in some of the up where I'm not really feeling like, oh, it's a hundred, you know, it's an Autowin for one deck. There are there are certainly some matchups, I think, like peak Aromi to drag a poled is very solidly favored for Peak Ram. But a lot of these matchups are kind of well, if, you know, if they play this one card and they hit it at this right time, then they can win the matchup or whatever it is. They feel a lot, you know, of across the board just even matchups. So it's hard to say like, oh, yes, since peak ram is good, then absolutely everyone's spirit play spirit tomb. It's hard to say that. I think sure, sure, and I think this Meta is relatively close amongst the top tier decks. In my opinion. That, and feel free to descend with me here, that Tapp Tier, and I wouldn't fault you for playing any of them. WOULD BE HIS OPTION? Variance be a combo an ATP, maybe dragged pult, be Pe Kurram, Spirit Tomb, and I think bill cephalon kind of fits itself just outside of that that range. Yeah, yeah, and I do like Bliss Cephalon as a deck guy. I only haven't said anything about anything negative about the any of these decks. I would stay away from something like ultimate meutwo. That's probably not a deck just for me that I would ever recommend somebody to play. But I mean even a deck like Bill Cephalon, like I think that's a great choice for this tournament. And you look at you can do things against your bad matchups. I mean you you house Peek Ram, you know spear tomb is it can be one. It just you know, I is is very close. They have a little bit more of a easier way to drum up attackers than you do, but it can be. You know, you're both these one prize decks and then you know, something like combosation. You know, okay, maybe potentially like a decent, decent matchup, depending on whether or not they can get out there one prizor and if you can get around it. Drag a Pault. There are some things you can do with Plis Cephalon into dragon pulse. So, like it's generally a bad matchup, I think, for Blis Cephalon, but not by much. I wouldn't say by a ton. But you can go crammer at. If you gonn early cramerant into a dragon pult, then you're generally out of an advantage because you're just kind of forcing the action when Dragon Paul wants to just hold back or at least three turns try to get a couple of dragon pulped built up. Yeah, so if you can force the early crammer ant on them, then you know, the game changes a lot. There's yeah, again there's just like generally the strategy is against these. A lot of these decks is very you know, it's just very close amongst these decks and maybe a little bit of a different strategy change or a different tech here and there at the right time can maybe win the game for you. So are there any decks that you've seen, either like on the fringe or that a somewhat popular within the rebel clash format, that you think are just not it, that you shouldn't play this weekend Um and that you absolutely shouldn't play like. I wouldn't look at anything metubeased to play this weekend. I think it's a little too vollatle I wouldn't look at mill this weekend. I wouldn't look at like firebox at all for this weekend. Those are the three that really stand out to me. OBSTACLEON Obstagon, I don't like it. I don't think it's a bad play. I do think that if spear tomb is on the way out then that's a good matchup for obstacle. That it loses, sure, so I don't love that either. I would look at obstacleonists as like, if you expect peak rom to be...

...big, I would hate to run into a lot of peak rom as an obstacle player. You can beat it, it's not crazy, but it's just very, very difficult to get around the paralysis and the sniping and whatever else that they play in, you know, in peak rom to kind of deal with with obstacle and it's kind of like these soft counters that Pek on play. So I would just be scared to play obstacle because you're going to face a lot of peak on players that have probably played the deck, you know. I mean that's like the oldest deck that we have. So everyone knows how to play peak ran and the play style is really been the same entire yeah, yeah, exactly. So I would just be scared to play that match up if I were the obstacle player. Sure, yeah, that matchup is definitely tough, and then you loose to dragon bolt too. Yeah. So, yeah, it's hard to recommend that one. Yeah, there's definitely, definitely some difficulties. They are for the goons, unfortunately. So I think we've assembled quite the array of decks here. I think shew and I are largely on the same page about that five or so decks that sit at the top. Let's talk about what we actually expect, though. Do we expect the Meta to be largely distributed between those? I personally think that peak ram is probably going to be one of, if not the most popular decks. However, I'll put an asterisk by that that there we found that glitch of the ground, not you and I specifically, but there was a glitch found with tags, which, yeah, and there is a workaround of just to play slower. But you know, I have to imagine the glitch is more wellknown than the workaround, and I wonder if that alone will cause peaker im to significantly lose a player base. I don't know, maybe, maybe it could. I would say that the people that are really, you know, looking to play pe Kurram have probably been playing it for a long time at least. Have a lot of experience with peak ram has like a primary deck. So I would think that those people, you know, would be all caught up to date, you know, on the the bug and like it wouldn't really face I. So I feel like get these miss the one tweet that announced how to get around the bug. And what's that? I feel like it's easy to miss, like the one tweet that's out there about how to deal with the bug. Fair enough, fair enough, I mean maybe Pokemon is sent letter out to the players. I don't know. I mean even that, like, I don't know, I would be a little nervous to play be here because, like I just wouldn't want to randomly lose a game because that happened. Yeah, that would be really sad. I as as soon as all these bugs got kind of announced like that, the tag switch, but also, if you remember, a couple of days ago, like the double supporter. How with the professors, like I'm a little nervous at how this player's Cup is gonna go. Not to take us too far off topic of the Metagame, but I'm a little bit nervous that. You know, I'm hoping that they don't like discover a new bug. Yeah, that's so. Let's put a pain in bugs for now. We can come back to like, you know, systemically. How what do we think of the Player Cup? Yeah, what do you think of met it though? I think under in an untouched world, peak ROM was probably the most popular deck. Yeah, yeah, I would put it. I would put it at about like twenty percent of the field. Like, I think it will be just that popular. Players will play it. It's always been played. It's the oldest deck in the format. We just got trainer kids, like anyone that didn't have it, like, let's say you're a player that had a lot of tickets that grind it into the Players Cup, but maybe you didn't have a Meta deck. You know, you're looking at what the play. You got this new battle kit that you could go and play peak ram, you know, almost right off rip. You know, I think it'll just be fifteen to twenty percent of the Meta game. Yeah, I totally agree. Are there any other decks that you think will stand out in particular? I mean we called out what we think are the best decks. You think those all sit at like a similar range? Yeah, I mean if you combine Zashin variants, then you know, then you're looking at something that competes with Peak Aro, maybe in the fifteen to twenty five percent arranged. But you know, if you're separating them, I would expect ATP to have about ten percent and in the Combo to have, you know, ten to fifteen percent of the metagame. Dragon Paul will be played, I think, by the better players and will see, you know, I won't be played a ton. I think it'll have somewhere around, you know, five to ten percent, a little bit on the lower side, and then you have kind of everything else. Like Blis CEFFALAN. I expect to see about ten percent of the metal and then spear Tom Maybe about five percent, and then everything else in that last whatever twenty five percent. That's sure. Yeah, do some Napkin math on that one. Yeah, somebody, let me know, leave a comment on the on the show and let me know how close I was. I largely agree with your tearing off there. I think peek aroum will sit at the top. You'll get sasheen variance occupying around the same realm combined. Yeah, and then you'll stagger down with pretty much exactly...

...how you expect them to fall in terms of popular yeah, yeah, exactly. And some, some maybe outside decks that maybe could perform well. I look at one being a Lucario Mel metal. That's been a deck that's just kind of been around. It's always been just around. It's just been around like I would consider it rogue just because it is kind of based around this counter strategy. And so Lucario Mel metal can can go against peak ram, can beat composation and drag a pole like. Those are the two matchups that it was really destined to perform well against. So that's another deck that I would look at and say, you know, if somebody grind it in with Lucario Meil metal, like I would not be surprised at all. Yeah, for sure. So let's then talk about those glitches and, systemically, about the Players Cup we've called out for what feels way too long about the TCG Oh client being relatively flawed. Yeah, and now we're at the point where there is actual money on the line. Yeah. So to recap some of the glitches we've seen so far, there's the one we called out with peak ram with tag switch. So, for the listeners, if you play a tag switch in present day, so early July of two thousand and twenty, if you have to be listening in the future, if you play a tag switch and you happen to go to do an action before the animation on the tag which is complete, your game just freezes effectively and you're unable to do anything else. So, yeah, yeah, you you just had to pass out, or time out, I assume it. I don't even remember the animation, but I don't know if it like if it comes back after like on your next turn. No, I don't think you can do anything ever. Oh, you okay. Yeah, that's so yeah, it's so weird. So we've seen that. We've seen the double supporter. Yeah, and do you know what happens with that one? I think you have to play a research first. I don't know quite the extent to that, but I think it's like you have to play research first and then you can play another supporter. Do you think folk I will do anything for that one, like, if people actively use that, how do you how do you work around that? I mean, I guess that one's like a choice. Yeah, that's so, like you can actively decide whether or not. Yeah, that one seems like. That one seems like an email gets sent out and they say, Hey, if you're caught double supportering, than you're eliminated from the tournament. That one seems like a pretty easy one because I have judges and they can look at the game log. I think it's still counted in the game log. So I would have made that one. Should be pretty easy. And then there's also I don't quite know if they fix this yet, but they're at least in the past there's been you know, the metal frying pan, or excusing not metal frying Pan, metal goggles. They did fix the goggles. They did fix the goggles. Okay, but just a document that. There have been a few other bugs and there's probably some more bugs that we still haven't figured I there's a tub sent to yeah, the Zambasento into the black market. Yeah, so context there. Black market. You need to have a dark energy on your pokemon to prevent the fries from being taken Zambas and to remove special energy. So if that dark energy happens to be a rainbow, the way it should work is the Zambas that there should attack the effective it's attack to activate, discarding the rainbow, and then the knockout check happens after effects of attacks. So you should have no energy on the Pokemon at the time of knockout check. And I I just don't think like the client really has those phases to be yes, like there's actual steps that you're supposed to take when you attack, and I don't think the client actually thinks about those steps. So it just kind of does it all at once. Yes, and then so it's like knocked out and the energies are rude at the same time, right, and so it does the back while the energy is still on it. It's just it's bizarre, but that that is decided games in recent history exactly. Yeah, you're so right. You're so right. So I'm really hoping, for for everyone's sake, that this is a very smooth event, but there are kind of these little indicators that it might not go as smooth as we want it to, and I'm really hoping that, you know, as it's the first event for Pokemon, that that either it goes very smoothly or it doesn't, and it's like a huge wake up call, if it already hasn't been, that something. Maybe more resources need to be need to be siphoned into this, because we probably won't have organized play for at least the rest of this year, and I I couldn't see it happening, you know, at least in the first half of two thousand and twenty one. So I just hope that things get solved with the with the online client, and that these bugs can get fixed really quickly and effectively and that more resources are put into the online game because, as...

...we've seen, it's been very popular, I would say. I mean it. It had a lot of entrance, a lot of people are working towards this and it could be a really great thing. Yeah, and I and we don't say this out of like a lack of love, right, like we want to see the game succeed and be the best it can be. So it's unfortunate in it that in my mind, it's not at that state yet. You know, we aren't. Yes, we can be quite yet. Yeah, yeah, well, and then you look at just how much is on the line, like we're talking thousands of multiple, multiple thousands of dollars or, you know, on fife hundred or whatever it is. It's like that is just you don't want to be trying to get into the top four and then you play a tax switch and you, you know, do another animation too quickly, like it's just that that would just be such a heartbreaking way to go out. And hope it doesn't gun like that. So I sincerely hope that everyone has clean, Fun Games in the Players Cup. I'm excited to see how it pans out. I hope that we don't have anything so impactful that it drastically changes the results of the event. Yeah, in the event that we do, I hope that JW's right and that and serving serves as a wake up call to that we need to have more active engagement with our development and make sure that the game is functional. You know, that's that's just the nice way we can put it, that it's functional to the standards that it should be right and you know, we can't expect pure perfection. Like obviously any any sort of gaming client is going to have bugs. Right that's just that's just the nature of the beast. But we can do our best to minimize them and actively be engaged with our development teams and make sure that they're eliminated as quickly as possible, especially if there's something that has a significant impact on the game. So I absolutely see more resources. They're going forward. Absolutely and and really I I can't size enough that. I hope everyone has a great time with the Players Cup. Who's playing, you did earn it, no matter what people say, no matter what trash people talk like. You put the effort in. You earn that position in the Players Cup. I hope that you pick the deck that you personally enjoy. For me, that would be as ash and deck. For dw that sounds like it also be as ash and deck, and you just put you play your heart out man like. Yeah, absolutely, this is a really this is really cool thing. It'll be just very interesting to see the results and, like Riley said, I wish everyone that plays in the Players Cup like all the best. I hope you have just a great, phenomenal experience. I hope that Pokemon, you know, just runs a very smooth event. I'm sure that they will. I hope in that and I just enjoy it because, yes, like Riley said, you put in the work, you did your time, you played by the rules and you're going to, you know, potentially get this reward, and so just enjoy it, have a great time and play your best. Yeah, yeah, and I hope that Pokemon does more stuff like this because, you know, they announced our season but, like we talked out last week, it's what is realistically, yeah, possible for a season. Yeah, at least, you know, and it granted to W and I come with the biased lends the United States, where covid nineteen is just a mess right now and continuing to get worse. So, yes, yes, you know, maybe in Europe they could feasibly hold tournaments, but certainly not in the United States of America for the foreseeable future. That's right. Yeah, for theently. It's kind of sucks, man. I really want to be able to play physical cards. Yeah, it does really suck. I've been missing it recently. I've been playing in the old polka stats retro formats and I've been having a great time, but it just gets me fired up to play, you know, irl competitions. Is there a retro format that you've particularly enjoyed. Well, this is my first one. I'm doing the breakthrough to Crimson invasion. So this is decidualize or arc. Yeah, syll be on stall, guardivoirs or Granninja, buzz will like and rock. So like a rock or well, so the problem is that I would have played pod, but you have to go pass, pass on your first turns. So you can't make use of whimpods retreat. Oh what? Yeah, yeah, so, so, because the just the rule, because you couldn't have like retro format rules. You can't change the rules of the game. So, like the rules back then are different than what they are now. So in order to try to mitigate that, you have to go pass, pass for the opening turn so that the first person can play a supporter. And then it just it's a little complex. Oh Yeah, I think about that having an impact on wind pod. Yeah. Yeah, so then you can't retreat because sometimes you, you know, a lot of times actually, you would like to retreat. That's promber. You still got it, did rock? I guess you do. You Do, you do, but I played I'm playing Zark cardivore. Yeah,...

...that's a fun doubt. I mean, imagine not playing puzzles in that format. Yeah, I couldn't see it, bro It, couldn't it? Puzzles are what a crazy card. I know, I know. I was just reminded like I hadn't touched these cards in two years and just getting back to playing this format. It was a lot of fun. I didn't play a ton back then, like I was working during that time period, but I definitely still, like was caught up with all the in their nationals and still try to do some local events, and I just yeah, they had so fun, dude, with the puzzles and you get back all these crazy combos and so the play like one of cards and reliably play them like once or twice or three times in a game. You're telling me, man, you're telling me filled the regional off that that's right, puzzle of time and what a classic. Is there any format that you'd love to revisit? Is there one that sticks out to you? Well, I'd like to go back to I think it was two thousand and thirteen four Wayne regionals format, because I had the best deck of Em Poleon rosaraid recycle and I didn't win the tournament and I was very sure that I want that I would have won the tournament because I had good matchups against the dark decks, which there's like dark hydrogone, there's like just straight dark. There was hoo, you know, which is a good matchup because you got a water attacker. There was, you know, just a lot of good matchups for my ampolling on deck that I created that I'd never got the chance to showcase because back then it was a it was a bracket style top thirty two, and I ended up facing an okay match up, like a pretty favorable matchup, but then had a very bad starter all three games. Oh No, just couldn't. And then I had bad luck at the end of game three and it's a whole thing, but I will go into it anymore. But I would like to revisit that formaker to prove that I had the best. Well, I hope you can get that opportunity one day, sir. Great, thankfully, a TCG, I should have that whole era of cars. So yeah, exactly, so there maybe, maybe, where there's a will, there's a way. There certainly is. I mean you could host it yourself. You've been doing your tournaments too. Yeah, I have. Yeah, that's a good plug for these tournaments. I've been running tournaments for the last couple months over my discord. So if you are not in the discord and you would like to play tournaments, just follow me on twitter. I think it's in the twitter bioh or it's in Youtube. Follow me at Youtubecom Flex Daddy Righteous, but doing a lot of videos recently just about different, different products that have been coming out. And you know, these retro formats have been really fun to play. I think they offer a lot of insight into just how I think about matchups. I think they've been really value. Like I've been going back and watching them again and it's kind of the mind set that I have during these games as I think, really valuable even to a person that isn't planning. I'm playing this format, but a lot of things you can learn, like, for instance, the last round that I played was really interesting because I played against a deck that I wasn't too familiar with in syl be once tall, and when we are first playing, I didn't know that he was playing sylvion stall. So I made some mistakes in my gameplay and then it's like kind of I go over how you know, you can learn about a matchup in the first game and then come back and change your strategy up for games two and three, and that's just a really interesting thing. I think that would benefit a lot of players. So that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, very sick. So I think we've reached a good point to start opening up to chat. If you'll have any questions, be it about the current Meta, the Players Cup or any of these past formats, or general thoughts about poke, now as a good time to ask. I see one in the chat here. Count the money. Ask Is Peakur? I'm going to be good. Post Rotation Front theise? Please say no. Couldn't see it. I think the law us of it lose a lot of things, but the loss of the electric power is going to be a big, big hit for peak rom just because it's going to be it's going to rely on bolt on to get the one shots, which not saying that bolt on can do it, but it just takes all this energy attached to do it. So I don't think Pekrom is going to survive right certainly, I mean it literally cannot survive in its current state, but I don't think it'll be even you know, a tier two day might be a tier two deck post rotation. Yeah, Mike, my guess is that it'll probably fall down verily significantly, electric power being the main, the main reason peaker, I'm really needs it to get the numbers that keeps it out of Tier One deck. Yeah, because what make Peter Wrong so good? Is it inconsistently one to two hit Ko...

...everything in the format. So full blits for one hundred and fifty just isn't as impressive. As you know, doing all sorts of crazy math right. I mean it's crazy. How that ten damage, and we talked a little bit about magic numbers and magic numbers here for Peak Rom is one hundred and sixty. It plays an electric power so now it can hit one hundred and eighty. So can one shot like a Dedenne and elda Goss. Those are very relevant pokemon to be able to one shot on the on the you know, opponent's bench, and and just that ten damage difference, like we're we're not talking about a lot here, but that ten damage difference as I think, what's going to be the gatekeeper for Peak Rom. Like if you could do one hundred and sixty, you might have a you might have a thought that okay. Well, you can too. Shot, shot a lot of the v Max has, you know, and then you can just make it work. Eventually you'll get enough energy on the board. You can get a bolt on, going, going, but it just doesn't look that way at one hundred and fifty and losing the damage boost. You could do something like with the vitality band, but I just couldn't. I don't know, I can't see and get scrapped between turns if you're relying on one hundred and sixty twice for to a can and you know, grant like taggle still a thing, and so, you know, Peter around probably isn't wiped off the map. But I think right, because this is because me is gone, I believe. No, it's so no use. Knock on. You gave it after be Grup. Oh, you're right, you're right. Yeah, yes, I'm calm. Sorry, sorry, yeah, you're right. So figure I was here. That for sure. View it. Yeah, okay, yeah, get bodied. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think what keep seek around really relevant, though, is that it can do a lot of burst damage with those electric powers. And Yeah, so losing that, you might as well just play like a more straightforward like bolt on variant or some other like electric deck that can hit those weaknesses but also has some more niche uses, like the vicable right, right, exactly. We have one here hyped on and telling on vmax. Yes, I really like in telling on JW is a bigtation to everything. They potentially slow down a little bit, and I think that is exactly what it's telling on needs. What about double welder, referencing jolly flying man? Double Weldre's such a cool deck to emerge from the last Sunday Open. I mean, I don't know who I mean. I created that deck. So, yeah, I know it's a good deck. Yeah, you didn't create double elder, Bro I did. That's not true. Name someone who had a youtube video about it before me. A YOUTUBE VIDEO? Maybe not, but I know for sure you didn't create the idea, Bra Bro. You know what do you think? Who Do you think created the idea? I've I created it on my own. Did I create the idea? Right, you're like that guy on here, like that guy on twitter who said that he invented the Frankenstein Monster. Just see that. No, I didn't see this. This is some twitter thread about how, like the author of Frankenstein should be, you know, watted, because she was a female author who created a long standing, like horror staple creature. Okay, this random dude comes up and he's like, well, actually, before I even heard of the Frankenstein Monster, I came up with the same thing. It's so, and that was written in like the eighteen hundred. It's like, like, I guess I you also lived in. You lived in a world where there was post frankenside monsters. So like yours, probably suddenly influenced by the culture to right, right. That's funny, so groovy. That's really funny. Will control survive and how might it change? Just control even really lose a lot from rotation? I don't believe. I mean, I don't believe so. I don't believe. So I need to go look up like, yeah, I need to go look up the exact cards. Yeah, it's I want to say that control survival will just be pred I mean control loses a ranger. Yeah, I guess it does. ARTICUO GX as well. HMM, yeah, without a ranger, you probably are are donezo with typical control lists. I think you'll will probably see a shift back to wall control. If anything, if we come out with cards that can facilitate that. So something more like the Sidu I based. Yeah, something like its sid you I Hoopa, kind of like echoing back to hooppa kind of decks. Yeah, I can't believe forgot out anger, but more like hoopa style decks. Also, stuff like the stones Joarner v Max that is like half control, half attacker, where it's like really tanky and just survives. And sure, how the last yeah, yeah, exactly, and then getting the new thus it's like reverse strong energy. Yeah, look, I forget what it's called. It's like yeah, stone, strong, stone energy. Maybe that sounds about right. Stone, tough energies like thick and I really I'm a big fan of the new...

...special stual energy. That it's interesting to see the Metal Energy trademark effect pretty much be put on a fighting energy. Yeah, right, I'm right it the all these new specials are very interesting. Yeah, I like them a lot, for sure. Same here. What else we got? Chat? I'm excited to see what the future brings, and that not just rotation. But I think this era of Pokemon has been interesting. I've liked the card design a lot. It's been fun to see, sure and I hope we get to Collab Riley, I hope you want to like play some more online stuff so we can make some decks together. Yeah, yeah, I've been struggling. They like build up the motivation of playing the online things. I was talking to a friend about this the other day. Yeah, and not really for any particular reason, like I still love Pokemon, like I still will like play solitaire hands of my physical decks. But yes, like something about these online things just not scratching my itch and I don't know how I can how I can get you to scratch that Edgell I've have. That has been interesting, though, is my friends is started cubing in tabletop simulator. Yes, which that actually that sounds fun. I'll yes, absolutely so, maybe, maybe off to upload a cube of my own, upload like Andrews Cube into the Oh yeah, let's do Andrews Cube and put in one rush res Art. Yeah, the only way to play it. Last question of the day from countdown money. If and when would any vand says changes be announced for expanded so what kind of things do we think we would be banned? I think scoop up nat shame ay x, like I think the usual suspects. Trevn noir, good contender, Gangar Mimic, good contender. Yeah, the melodic? Melodic? Yeah, melodic would be a good one too. And your twelve asking what's solitaire hands just like playing out the deck as if there was an opponent there. Usually, usually what I do is I'll just like shuffle at the deck, play it and I'll assume the worst possible thing happens to me every single turn and see if I could do something about it. So, like the one of the main deck I have sleeved off right now is just my sterilax deck from Collinsville, and so you know I'll get to do Hudo to be all, get parallel city to every now and then, right. Yeah, so it just going back to Dan. When would we expect expanded bands to be announced? I don't foresee pokemon doing an expanded format online tournament, although I obviously have no insider information. If they did do an expanded tournament, I would expect there to be bands before then. Yeah, so I would guess the when is just predicated on when the first like tier two, sanctioned expanded to that exactly. Yeah, so you might get some crazy lead challenges, though. One day pretty band. That's true. So you know, I guess you could steep that and if you want, that's right, sure could. So very good guys. Thank you again for listening tonight's we had just a great chat about the metagame and what to expect for the Players Cup and it was just a really great time having you please make sure, if you're not already follow Riley here, leave us a comment. If you're listening on spotify or Itunes, and we have just been. I'm really proud. Riley. Would just been the most consistent tag team, you know, duo here in the game for like the last two years, and that's just really, really great. I'm very proud of our work, me too, man. So be sure to check everyone out on our respective social media's. I'm smiles of barrels on twitter, and we got real John will throw on twitter and of course, JW Switch Channel Flex Daddy righteous also as YouTube. Jaw is going to be streaming three days a week still. That's right, three days a week at does an awesome job. I've always thought youw had a knack for streaming, which is the whole reason we started this in the first place, and with that I will catch you all next time peace see it.

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