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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 7 · 1 year ago

3-7. Logan "Base Set" Paul

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are wrapping up their Player's Cup runs and giving out free tips on how to succeed. In the world of collectors, some new challengers lurk...

What's up everybody? Welcome back totag team, the POKEMON Trading Card Games from mere podcasting duo. My nameis Riley Hulbart joined as always, but my good friend JW crewball, JW, has a hang it today. Where are you at right now? Iam in Port Hope, Michigan. Wow, very nice, guys. Yeah,it is a small town in the thumb, right in the thumb,right the found in the farm. That's right. That's right. That's wheremy grandparents lived and my parents got a little like cottage type thing up hereon the lake. So I look right out above the computer. That's likehere on beautiful little spot. Nice. I said, saw on twitter thatyour family has sold their farm. Yeah, so that was a big deal.So my grandparents passed away, you know, over the last couple ofyears, and they had this this farm right that they have done and andthat they rented out the the land to the acreage and you know, they'rejust they're not around anymore. The family can't really, you know, keepit up, and so it was sold yesterday and so there was a littlebit of my childhood gone, you know. I mean it's fine, you know, it's all happy memories. And things like that. But yeah,that that piece. You know, it's like when you're your parents sell yourchildhood house or something like that, because I spent just a lot of yearsthere. So you have this kind of nostalgia for that. No, Itotally understand. Yeah, so I could see you being a farmer one day. You know what, I've been getting more and more into whole horticulture.I could see you just wearing overalls and nothing else, just a farm.Well, I mean I do that, you know, with my wife Anyway. Right. I'm sure Anne is a big fan of the overalls look.Yeah, I mean it's one of the secret it's one of the secret youknow relationship of outfits, right, yeah, one of those secret things they don'ttell you. Yeah, study up. I did you ever like we're overallsas a kid, is like a cute outfit that your parents made foryou. Nah, no, my brother, I think, had one pair ofoveralls. I feel like I own a pair of overalls, but Ijust like never really wore them and they never you know, when I wasa real little I don't think I had any that. My parents are dressedme up and yeah, I definitely was a overall kid. You know,I definitely robed those suckers. That Oshkosh Bagosh, exactly exactly that. No, no, really, but you know, it's cute a little row kid inCalifornia. So good memories, good memories and overalls, anything else goon and over the course of your week as being in Michigan? It's beenpretty good. I really enjoy Michigan. I'm kind of sad because I'm allalone up here. You know, I I went to the wedding on Saturdayfor a friend from high school and then after that I've just been self isolating. I just actually got a covid test today. They did the nose swab. Yeah, and it was it was pretty horrible, like yeah, theyget up in there. I mean luckily the nurse was she had empathy,like I think she was younger, and so she like didn't make it anyharder than it needed to be. But I could really see it being kindof a traumatizing experience if you got that old, jaded nurse that just likerammed the thing up there and kept it in there like a little bit toolong, because it's like okay, the first one, because they do onewhere it's an instant result and then they do one where it's they sent itout to a lab. So they're like, okay, we're going to do onefor five seconds and then one for ten seconds, and then so thefive second one and then she like counted really fast on the ten second one. I was like thank goodness, like you're such a legend, like itwas. It was as good as that could have gone. But basically whatit feels like is it's like they take a nail and they put it intoyour nose and it goes into that cavity like kind of you know, Idon't know, but back where your nasal passage. I don't know too muchabout the anatomy, put it where your nose goes. Yeah, no,but it like really goes by. It's not like I didn't know. Isit's like like touching a brain head? Yeah, almost. It does kindof feel like that. So it's just really an uncomfortable thing and I canstill kind of feel it. You know, it's one of those kind of experienceswhere you have it and it's hard to forget because it was so noveland so unique. Yeah, so I still I still kind of have thatlike like a little bit of just like I know it's my brain tricking meand that the nerves aren't actually like sensitive there, but I just like feelthat energy right in my nose. Yeah, there's some dark auras around, youknow, definitely some dark ores.

Wow, a respect to you forlike taking the proper precautions right and they can share that things are checking out. So I'm assuming the instant test came back negative. How long is thelab test going to take? Um, I don't know, but I don'treally have any symptoms aside from like, I just think, some seasonal allergythings. I'm getting cesilogies right now too. It sucks. Yeah, yeah,so it's like I'm not, you know, kind of weighing that toohard. So we kind of said, with my roommate and my wife,like okay, if you can take a test and you can get a resultthat's, you know, eighty five percent positive and you don't really show anysymptoms for a week, that I'll go back home on Saturday. Yeah,it take sense, you know. Yeah, I mean it's like you're kind of, you know, sure it could have been a false negative and andyou know my symptoms won't show up for another you know, week or something, but you know, at this point kind of have to just trust trymost yeah, for sure. Well, I wish you all the best andI'm sure and is eagerly awaiting a return. For sure, for sure. Whatwhat about you, Riley? What have you been up to? Nota whole lot. This is a pretty chill weekend for me. I hada really busy week. So I'm like managing a project and one of myteam members was very sick last week, not with Covid, thankfully. Yeah, and they're better now, also, thankfully, but I had to coverthem for quite a few things last week and so it last week very hecticfor me. So trying to recharge. I'm taking a day off next Mondayjust give myself an opportunity to rest and relax for a long weekend. That'sgreat. Yeah, I would have taken off this Friday, but I hadsome things that needed to do on Friday specifically. So it tas what itis. You did manage to finish your players Cup run? I did.Yeah, I really had really rushed through it last weekend. I don't know, I wasn't even really planning to get it all done last weekend. Iwas kind of planning to do like half of it, but I just Ijust got really in the zone and I kept hitting the play button and andthen all of a sudden, before you know it, they're all gone.Yeah, who knew fifty keys is so few? Yeah, yeah, I'vereally I brought it home. Last week I talked about how I'd only playedthe Cargo Mel Metal for my eight keys, and they're rest of the forty two. I only played p Kuram and no other deck. That's Aweso.Didn't change it once. I change the list like twice, I think,but I didn't change the deck at all, which goes to show to what wesaid over the last couple weeks is like, don't get discouraged by theby the middle failures, right, like, you know, a couple bad urnamentsand road isn't mean that the deck is failing you. Because I gotto what I would consider to be a comfortable point total. I got toa hundred thirty four rep which almost as surely. I mean, good God, if that's not locked, I don't yeah, I was like number threeor two or the world at one point, which was kind of cool. Yeah, we were. We were talking about you trying to get to numberone. Yeah, I was just shy of number one because the other guy, who is our it was already head of me, got like another winright when I finished my tournaments. So God. So I got to numbertwo and I was also like number three in the globe with what there was. One player Latin America was like a hundred forty, which was pretty insane. You know, just shy of three points per per key or ticket orwhatever you want, com so that was pretty awesome for him. But overall, yeah, it was. It was really successful. In Peak Ram reallygot me there, I think, especially on Saturday p Kurram was still kindof on the low. So I had a much smoother time Sunday and Mondaywhen I finished up my keys. There was did feel as smooth of asailing, but I still just stuck it out because I really like the deck. I was kind of I was kind of like determined for myself to neverplay a TB throughout that and I didn't want to switch back to the Carreome metal because I just I saw fire like every tournament, so it justwasn't like a realistic choice for me. Grant I did see some of thecargo's win tournaments like in my run, like I would lose the cargo inthe finals every so often. Sure, sure, and if if anyone wantsto get yeah it is it is. I did win against affair amount oftime. But and I was actually like for a while I was thinking itmight not be as bad as I thought, because I had like a hundred percentwin right on it, and then I just had a couple of gamesor like actually went according to new cargo's planned and it was like, yeah, this is a well, I actually find the biggest problem against that deckis like where you are forced to discard too many energies early. I've hearda few time. Well, if the deck where it's like, you know, you discard two or three on the opening hand because you needed to dennyto get your stuff out, and then,...

...you know, they knock out aguy and then they save their gx attack for the end of the gameand they write bump all the energy off and then you're only hitting for youknow, forty damage with your bolt on or something like that. So yeah, well, I had a very conservative approach to the matchup where I wouldown, I wouldn't use cocoa at all until I got hit with the GFattack, I would only bolt on and like I would basically make like reallyagregious turn to not discard energy, and that worked. That still works prettywell. Yeah, the problems I was starting to run into a lot ofthe Cardos are also running crushing, which is too much for Pika. Like, if you're going to play the cargo specifically for Pika, crushing is good. I don't think crushing is like that good in Lucario in general, sure, but specifically in that matchup is pretty rough. So that was tough andI started to run into more and more Lu Carrio's that were going in veryaggressively. was options, which is what you should do in the Pika matchup. Yes, because what you really want to do is you want to Kothe bolt on the turn that it uses, electrify and then from there you havelike a really clear route where you can just whack a Peka twice andthen Ko whatever else on the board. Yeah, sure. And so whatI noticed was the games that I was winning where the ones where I couldelectrify and flee, and the Games I was losing is when I would electrifyand immediately die. So right, right, and that's that is really just aproblem with bolt on, just like you don't have that survivor bility andthe big charm doesn't save it. That's the worst part. Yeah, itwould be. It would probably be a significantly better matchup if bolt on hadtwo hundred ten HP. Yeah, you know, like leaps and bounds justbecause you can servive that early aggression. Yeah, so it is what itis. If people are interested in like the actual specifics, I don't.I don't have like a ton of details on every single game, but Idid write out what every matchup was and whether it was a winner a loss, and it's on a Google Doc. That's just on my twitter. Soyou can go check that out if you're interesting to like how things pan out. I think you get a pretty good sense of like generally how matchups wentwith that. What was the matchup that you found just the most difficult?The most difficult, most difficult peak around was definitely the Caryo, my metaloutside of like niche fighting stuff, like I played against a hit Mon Chan. That was that sucked. Obviously, like like Santa Conda around. Onelost, like show gets your man, sure, but outside of that,I think Lu Caryo was the hardest. Mew Two can be hard if theyrun the audios, but even that I didn't really find you too to bea problem. Sure, and I never, I never had really any trouble withATP. The only games I felt like I was in ATP or oneswhere I was whipping and they were just punishing me for it. Sure,I felt like, if I was getting my game playing going, that Inever really lost them. So I got to say it's the car on mymetal. Otherwise, I felt pretty comfortable. Like I felt good against fire dex, I felt good against ATP. I felt decent against me too.I felt generally comfortable against like random x in the field. Yeah,but La Caryo, my medal, I always had me, had me quivering. I also felt very good in the mirror, which isn't obviously isn't agood matchup, but I had an incredibly good wind right in the mirror.I mean that's really good, like, particularly if you think that that deckis gaining steam and gaining popularity, than to just be able to find yourroutes style play in the mirror. Just I don't know if I find it. You know whatever it is, and that it have that advantage in themirrors. Outside of that, I also want to point out a turn it. This is a rough matchup and I think it's turn. This is kindof on the rise because it turn is also as a very good mew twomatchup, which is also seemingly more popular than it used to be. Aturn this is tough, yeah, but I think comparing like a turnis versusthe Lucario, like Lucaro's a very like consistent game plan that is so difficultto deal with, whereas it turn it is like if you flip like alucky hammer heads or you get a stamp ride you off, or if theyjust whip a knockout, which like happens actually a fair amount of the time. Is like they have a slow turn one you full blitz and like theyget two hundred ten damage on the board or something and it's like it's likeokay, I win now. So so it turned to match up is scaryand it like goes really fast, like you know he's gonna win that matchup really quickly. Usually. Sure, sure, but I think Lucaro isscarier because it's more reliable in the game plan. That's already difficult for you? Sure, sure, because the deck. So look, you know, let'stalk about results as a whole. You kind of briefly mentioned you thinkthat it turn it, this is on the rise. What are some otherdecks you're kind of seeing in the metagame...

...kind of go up or down?One thing that I want to say is that I've seen, in terms ofplacements, just a general lack of Lucario Mel Metal. That has been adeck that saw kind of this explosion and then now I think as kind ofsettled back down. You know it one a tournament over the last week hadsome solid placements, but certainly there were other decks that that performed on thewhole a little bit better than Lucariom metal. So what are some other decks thatyou're seeing in the metagame either do better than they did last week ormaybe a little bit worse than last yeah, I still see a lot of theCaaro me metal, but I think fire has gotten a lot more popularrecently. I don't really know what's caused that because I don't think the firedecks are very good, to be honest. Like I don't like send to scores, I don't like the green stars are yeah, so I don't don'treally know what's caused that. If people are really about the fire DEX,probably because the Carl me metal, I guess so. But then it sothe cardio metal rises, people get on the fire decks, just like wetalked about pokemon players of the counter deck, and so la car memo kind ofnaturally breaks under that pressure. ATPA, actually, I'd like, I don'tknow, ATP seems to Evan Flow, like I feel like I'll either seeATP three rounds of a tournament, like all three, or I willnot encounter ATP at all. And obviously it's like a little hyperbole eyes,but I feel like I'll see ATP and streaky amounts and I think people likecome off and on the deck. I think in general, ATP is onwas on a little bit of a downturn, as people are like very hot onpeak rom for a couple days there, and then ATP is definitely swung backup. As you know, it's rules and playing it again. It'sgotten some more tournaments under its belt over the last couple days. So ATP'sdefinitely back in the line light. And really, I mean it. Didit really go anywhere? Not Really, but I do think there's been anoticeable upswing and people playing ATP and just kind of admitting like yeah, thisis like the gatekeeper. Well, and you you mentioned again that that peakram into ATP, which I would have said was a pretty favorable matchup forpeak ram, especially, you know, with the hammers and the Yel ground, if you're able to get one of those on the first turn. Yeah, but on the flip side now, I mean we look at a listlike a Zul's and he's playing, you know, cards directly countering peak umpeak rom. So one card that I look at would be the great catcher. I mean that was the thing that was generally in ATP list but,you know, still worth mentioning for that matchup. And then the other onewas tool scrapper, to be able to get rid of the big charm onthe peak ram, to be able to take a one shot with this isoption. So those are both really important cards for the matchup and I thinkyou know that inclusion just needs to be said because, yeah, for sure, you know, because otherwise I think it's generally, yeah, favorable forpe Kuran, but maybe now with those kind of text coming in, particularlythat tool scrapper. I think it's something that we should see in more ATPlist to counter the rising peaker on. Yeah, the tool scrapper is reallygood. It's also good and like the car, no match at yeah,so it feels like inexcusable not to play it at this point. But that'skind of like one of the beauties of ATP is it's such a we've harpedon this, but ATP is such a simple archetype. There's only so onlya couple of cards you need in the core ATP to make it work,and then you're really free to go ham with whatever you want. You know, you can play crushings, you can play catchers, you can play greatcatcher and tool scrapper, you can play clay, you can play research.It's like the cores is so simple that you can basically make it work withanything else, and I think that's one of ATP's like truest strengths, asthat could self is already so good and you're able to tailor it to fitwhat you're expecting to see. You see this manifest in other ways, likethe melodic coming in and out of lists for senti scores. I don't thinkthe melodics that good, but that's like that's need to hear nor there.It's the fact they're able to play it at all. Right, is itTestin to like at be being really good? Sure so. I mean ATP,obviously here to stay really strong. Dag, I think you have torespect Peter, I'm immute to which have definitely been on the up. whichhave been decks that, you know, in a vacuum might have decent ATPmatchups, and playing those things to help mitigate that. Also those, Ithink played the Zigzagoon, which is super good in the mew two match up. Yes, all those things compound on each other and you know, justcontinue to start atps dominance on the format. Sure, absolutely so. You know, not going anywhere. But I will say like peak Ram Youtube definitelylike don't inherently suffer from that, like they have a pretty good matchups againstthe rest of the field. Peak Rom honestly feels kind of ATP Esk.Yeah, except it's a little it has...

...more of a comeback element to it, I guess. Yes, whereas I think I would agree ATP is morethe aggressor and peak ram is more like the defensive deck. Well, whatI what I want to add to that those peak gram ATP. Both,I think, are the decks that punish whip the hardest. Sure, soif you have like if you have like an unplayable start against peak ram,peak I will just fullblitz into you, put them on the active and it'slike Oh, hello, we're doing this, this is where we're at right now. Okay. And ATP, Similarly, will ultimate ray and like you're justscrewed after that. So, but I do think in general peak ramis more defensive. So is ATP. Will try to aggressively take prizes.Peak Ram will try and snack down to one fries, reset stamp and arelizes with the Rychu, and I mean it's pretty hard to deal with that, no matter what your deck looks like. Yep, absolutely. Where do youthink it turn it? This fits in all this kind of the onedeck that we have not really talked about too much and I'd like to justmention it briefly. Have you played around with any eternity is? I KnowAndrew Mahone recently released a poison the turn of this list that he really enjoyedplaying without Zigzagoon's favoring the garbodor and Tox crokeline. Just general thoughts on aturn to and what lists you should be playing. Yeah, I mean Ithink it turned. This will always kind of have a place just because itdoes so much damage so quickly. In theory. What would you have tobe careful with with the turn of this is decks can punish it really hardif they play like energy denial of any sort and you're not playing away aroundthat. So, like some people have played turbo patches, which is kindof like a soft strategy, right, because you need to hit the turbohatch before You v Max and also hit heads, which is, yeah,yeah, which I never do. Never, never, whatever hit a heads.So it's just like it turned. This has those inherent flaws to itand addition, it just being a little less consistent because of the fact thatyou can only play dark pokmon, like you can't have the shame and Crowbatturn that some of these scan where you researchhme and Crobat draw just like waytoo many cards to didny did any all right? But yes, sorry,research to Danny cur about the rats man. So so it doesn't have access tothat power turn. So it's sometimes can get a little more caught andawkward hands, which is definitely a flaw, especially if you're going for like thepoison route. And if you don't play the poison out, though,you like hard lose for sure to Azamas and to hitting the field, whichis unfortunate. Yes, it's just do I. So I think a turnthis is good. I think it has really good fire matchups. I thinkit's a good metwo matchup. I think is a above average peaker I matchup. But it is a deck that has a lot of like moving parts,I guess you could say. There's a lot going on, and if oneof those cogs in the machine gets jammed, then it just all falls apart reallyquickly. So it's not a deck that I'm like APPs to play myself, which I know is contradictory to like meeting really high on a turn thisearly in the season, but I mean it just consistently, like in general, and Pokemon, consistently like basic simple x will reign supreme, and that'syeah, that's what I would air to. Yeah, yeah, I think,and I think that's kind of what we've seen from the last week ofplay, where ATP and Peak Rom being those just attached attack style decks withouta ton of moving pieces. Obviously every deck is going to play, youknow, some kind of card where you know you want to put it correctly, but those are just probably two of the more straightforward out of, youknow, what we would consider to be viable tournament winning decks. And so, yeah, definitely speaks to what you just said. They're where don't wantto have too many things, you know, go wrong or have awkward starts.Yeah, and especially like, especially with awkward cards like it turn.This really struggles with awkward hands, like if there's not a lot of cardsthat can play, you can't just Dednni them away, like Crowbat is inherentlylimited a compared to Tonna, where you can't always draw cards with Crow Bator a significant amount of them. So sometimes you're just like well, Igot a Crowb out for one and find two more pokemon here. So whichis just a physically possible I'd be unlikely to happen anyway, even if itwas right. So great, it's scary, man. It's scary sure as anyfinal thoughts on on the current metagame, and I guess players come at agame. Yeah, I mean I would say if I was to continueplaying the Players Cup, like if I had keys, I would look atATP Mewtwo and Peek or Huh, the...

...basic format decks that have a relativelysimple strategy, do things very quickly and get your games moving. Those,I think, pick your poison amongst those. They're all all they all got prosand cons within them, but they're all incredibly strong. Will get youwins, will get you those points, and I would just continue to reemphasize, like all the things that we talked about over the past couple weeksabout the players cup. Don't get too discouraged when things happen. Take everygame is like a learning experience. You know, if you lose, whatcould you get out of that? And even if it's like very minimal,there's probably something that you could have got out of it. I think alwaysequipping that growth mindset is really important. I had a couple of games where, I mean I if I'm being like fully honest, I got a coupleof games where just wasn't playing my best and like either this wasn't paying fullattention or just made a mistake that was just genuinely I didn't see the rightroute at the time and I tried really hard to be aware of that.And as someone who's like inclined to like Reagent Video Games, like you know, I'm one to be like, what the heck? Mail, like hejust always has. Everything was the stupid crap. But yeah, but Ithink being willing to like take that step back and be like okay, well, actually I had a chance to do something different and I chose not to. Has it ended up punishing me in and it did. I had avery distinct moment where I remember I greedily attached an energy and I couldn't movepokemon after that, and so I got hard punished and lost a game.Off of that is realizing, like you have, you always have a factorin whether you winner lose, be at your deck choice, your deck likelist or in game actions. So try and try to be really cognizant that. Have a good attitude ought, you know, keep positive, keep stickingwith decks, don't switch them around too much, don't even switch the listtoo much once you get to a good list, and I think you willultimately see the dividends pay out. Yeah, yeah, and for some of thelisteners out here, you know your players, Cup run might be over. You might already know. Hey, you know I finished with sixty.You know, fifty, forty points. I'm not really close to getting there, but you know, any advice that you would give to those players interms of like trying to keep a good attitude about the about the Players Cup? Yeah, so I would say if it's looking grim or even if it'salready over and you didn't get there, your values a player isn't tied tothe Players Cup. Your values a person for sure isn't tied to the PlayersCup. That's there's ultimately going to be a lot of variants in this justby virtue of the best of one single limb. Completely random. Effectively,tournaments like you have no idea what's coming your way. You can't account forMeta besides, like a really macro sense of what the metal looks like.So there's only so much you can do and, like, sometimes bad beatswill get you in situations like that. I think there will be more playerscups in the future. In the future is if you're still interested in pursuingone like try and try and equip that growth mindset and head into the nextone with a new perspective, or just try out. Some of these othersare online events. Like really, don't put too much stock into this inherently. You know, put enough stock that, like you are taking it seriously anddoing what's right for you. But the end of day, pokemons agame. We're trying to have fun. I think the game is really fun. I think the decks are really fun. So don't take that for granted either. Like you know, we're all we're all the same boat here,right, or trying to do the same thing. We're just trying to havefun playing pokemon cards. Yeah, yeah, right, and I mean ultimately onlya select view will make it, and that's the intent. That's theintent data design, right, right, it's supposed to have a little bitof prestige to it. So, you know, if it didn't happen foryou this time, buckle up. Maybe there will be a next time.Probably there will be a next time, and just keep up in your gamewith the just huge amount of online things that you can do and just continueto practice your deck building, continue to practice all the in Gameplay and checkingprizes and all that good stuff. Yeah, now, more than ever, isa great time to practically apply yourself. There's so many online events. There'sso much content out there. I think if you're looking to improve,and JW made a video on this as well, this is the perfect timeto do it. I think we're going to see an explosion of players ifwe ever come back to in real life tournaments. You think that all translatedin real life? I don't think it'll translate like one to one. ButI not only do, I think that we're going to see like just moreplayers, because we already saw that trajectory go pretty significantly up over, youknow, the last few seasons in terms...

...of how many players do play thethe game in real life. But I think we'll also see just the caliberof players increase across the board, and that is I mean that's also somethinglike very real. You know, people might be upset that they're doing poorlyin the players cup, but they're comparing, you know, their opponents to peoplethat they would see in like a just a general ptcgeo tournament, youknow, where you could pretty much sleep walk to the finals of those ticketedtournaments, and that's just not the case with you with Players Cup. ButI think, yeah, when we get back into real life stuff like there'sjust going to be so many very, very on point players. Just I'mkind of scared in a sense. But you're looking at all these people justlike in the lab, you know, getting there, earning their stripes,as it were, playing online, and I think that'll really pay dividends when, no, for sure, events come back. For sure. I mean, I assure you, like my own successes and my own growth early onin my career to playing a lot online and really grinding it out, andI think a lot of players are just doing that by virtue of of whatwe have to do right now. So it'll be really curious to see wherewe end up in a postcode world. What's hunters be significantly harder because peoplehave just been really grinding out for a year. M Your plus. Whoknows? I'm excited to who knows. So I think this is a perfecttime, then, to segue into the car to the week before we gointo our next topic here. And so this week I was inspired by myloss to the hit on Chan deck and so I wanted to give hit MonChan a time in the spotlight. So I won't give a shout out tohit and run hit on Chan because the scars are too fresh. So instead, I'll give a shout out to base at Hitm on Chan, and Ithink this will segue Nice into our next topic as well. But way backin the day there was one deck that stood above them all and one carthat defined the entire POKEMON trading card game, and that was hit Mon Chan frombase set, which is funny because I feel like hit on Chan islike not especially significant Pokemon, like the grand scheme of things, like right, like how many people? I feel like whenever you have these pokemon thatare kind of like dual duel Pokemon, looks like hit on Chand doesn't reallygo. You know it's not. It's not. It doesn't exist on itsown right. It exists with him on Lee and, to a lesser extent, hit on top, but you just have those pokemon like it's not itsown pokemon really, like yeah, it has to exist with the other one. And even even then, I think him on Lee and top are bothmore popular than Hitma on Chan. whatuld you disagree? Maybe hit on top, I feel like I would. I would say that, but I don'tknow. I like him much. I always chose him on Chan. Ifeel like people like it only better. I like him only better. He'sall stretched. Let us know. Let us know, guys. Yeah,when you comment on the on the podcast in Itunes, after you give usa five stars, let us know. Nice plug. So anyway, though, so hit launch and not a terribly significant pokemon it of its own right, but had a beast of a card in the base set. So seventyhell, which at the time was monstrous. I know it seems absurd by today'sstandards, but that's like a one energy attack. That is seventy damagenow, but that was a lot. And For one energy it did jabfor twenty, which at the time was a lot of damage. For oneenergy, one fighting energy, and then for three energy it had special punchand you never really attacked a special punch, but you could if. Well,it was not, I mean it was. I mean it wasn't necessarilya lot of damage, I think, for I think for one energy.Yeah, it was a lot for no downside, especially, I think.Well, I think, though, you look at you look at just theprevalence of energy removal cards being what just absolutely gate kept any right, allthree, four energy. Oh, yeah, it was. It did the mostdamage you could basically for one energy. At the simplest attack. It wason a basic which is also key, and there was so much denial backthen that, like hip. That's why I'm saying that, like amunch on, special punch for three energy was basically irrelevant because you were neverspecial punching, like as soon as the second energy comes down, you getsuper energy removal and they're both gone. So you were just jabbing away andentire decks were built around that concept. So elected buzz was another really goodattacker with very efficient attacks, but it hit on Chan, hit elected usfor weakness, and then later on it...

...when jungle came out, there wasthe cither, which resisted. At the time that was thirty so and Ihad for your treat, and so cither came into the mix and it wasjust a whole array at these really strong basic pokemon and him on Chan reallyis what the whole thing was formulated around, basically. So it was really cool. Back then you saw a lot of crazy fighting resistant pokemon get played, like farfetched was one of them. First the farfetch card was so awful. Honestly, it's really not a great card, but it was good byvirtue of resisting. HITM on Chan same thing with like they were too duocards that were played with fury attack, just because they've resisted hit Mun Chandso it's cool how like hit Lawn Chand got that time in the in theline by it's one thing I really like about the trading card game is itcan give relevance to Pokemon that wouldn't be relevant in the video game by itself. Sure, and I think you see that time and time again. Diddnna is like a good example of pokemon that's like doesn't do especially much inthe video game besides being cute, and is critical to the trading card game. Sure, so I love that. I think that's one of my favoritethings about the trading card game is any pokemon could be given the spotlight andI think hit nothing. Nothing emphasized that better than base. It hit MunChad. That's great. So, speaking of Basse Thatt, though, Ithink there is another topic you wanted to hit on. Yeah, well,it's has to do with a very controversial you can say that. Logan Pauljust recently opened a first edition base at booster box, among other things,I believe in an effort to raise funds for charity raised over a hundred andthirty thousand dollars for for charity via this live stream event where he opened theseboxes and he managed to pull, you know, some pretty good things.I think he had that first edition Charz ARD and you know, it's beencertainly the talk of not only the you know, trading card game game butjust general pokemon collectors as a whole. I mean this is a pretty bigdeal to see somebody so big, you know, because we really don't haveaside from I mean Leon Hart is kind of the pioneer for pokemon cards andhe has, you know, a million subscribers. So like compared to someother youtubers like, you know, some of the other big youtubers like He. Yeah, certainly, you know, to only to be our only representativefor POKEMON trading card game, add a million, you know, compared toa lot of other things, you know, having other content creators than have.All this cloud is following come into the game. That not really intothe game, but at least into the collecting side right, is really veryinteresting. So how many subscribers is loom Paul have? Do you know?Not off the top of my head. You fact check that from me aheadand yeah, I'll go check that out. Also, on the side we sawlogic, I think, bought what a first edition chars art and thatwas pretty Wogan. Paul has twenty two point four million youtube subscribers. Wow, a lot of people. That is a lot of people that you knoware now you know know that he likes pokemon. Yeah, and there isa pretty immediate like fall out to t a logic and logan getting into thePOKEMON trading card game collecting. Like the prices, I'm pretty sure, surgelike right away as soon as this happened. Yeah, I has. They saidCharter. He said, you know, I bought a base set grated cardof first edition chars are. That was like a nine or something.He said like, you know, I bought it for two hundred bucks andthen he showed a screenshot and it was over four thousand dollars sold on youon Ebay, and just amazing things like that where prices go up for those, particularly those nostalgic cards. You know, the base that jars are, alist of the first edition. Yeah, the chars ares especially, because charsare people love their jars aards. But I mean, I don't knowyour thoughts, Riley on kind of this new wave of of collectors, youknow, Logan Paul and logic being the two that we're kind of highlighting,but certainly there will be more to come. I think this is just kind ofthis start of a bigger trend. I don't know how you feel aboutthem, but I am kind of on board with it. I mean,Pokemon as a stock in essence kind of feels a little bit dirty, youknow, it kind of it always to me feels a little kind of grungyand Grimey to talk about, you know, the dollar amounts of pokemon cards because, yeah, it's you know, it's supposed to be this this thingfor kids and you know it's just supposed to be kind of whimsical and fancifuland it really just a kids thing.

But that's that's not true anymore.I mean certainly we're well past that. You know, pokemon is and hascreated a global brand for themselves and appeals not just two kids. You know, it's certainly has done an obviously job. Yeah, to adult man might checka podcast, feelings to feeling to so many people. So you know, what are your thoughts on kind of people coming into the market and maybenot even staying in the market for that long, like Logan Paul could hascertainly has gotten a lot of attention from this, and we know that justfrom interviews that he's given, he really does like to kind of manipulate hisfan base for, you know, just trying to gather as many people tofollow them as possible, and I mean he said that in various podcasts aboutthe ways, in the methods that he goes about. Yeah, you know, using to try to generate some kind of interest in what he's doing,and so, even if he's only here for a second, I mean I'mcurious your thoughts. Do you think this is a good or bad thing?I mean, on the whole it's probably going to be good for the game. There's more attention on it, you'll probably get more people who just wanderinto actually playing the game as a result. I don't think like collectors really offeranything to like the actual game inherently, besides like bringing money into it,like the collector scene. But the collector scenes kind of disparate from likethe actual playing scene and I mean sometimes you could argue the collector scene wouldbe harmful to the playing scene, like they buy out all product to getthe CHARS AARD and nouns unaccessible to people who need it. Sure that'll setI think. I think getting eyes on the game is generally good. Ithink that it will bring a positive energy to the game. It will reinvigoratepeople's opinions on Pokemon in general kind of kind of legitimizes it in some ways. Not that I think. I think POKEMON's kind of graduated from its phasein the early thousands or people it's like I bukemon like you're you're just aloser if you like Pokemon. That's certainly is past. Yeah, but youknow, it readds like some legitimacy to the game. I do think itsucks if you were a collector previously and you like you were holding out tobuy chars art or something, and now it's you know what is the wordfor, Fifty Times? I don't know, but it's fifty times in price.I feel for you. That is unfortunate. Sure, and my personalopinions on like collecting scene aside, I think I think it's good. Ithink there's a good thing being offered on the whole. Yeah, it's kindof it's kind of interesting just how perhaps undervalued these cards were for a longtime. I mean, let's say, interesting thing about collectibles, right,if they don't really have any value, it's just whatever people want to payfor them. Yeah, yeah, but it's you know, I've been inthe I've been in the Games way longer than you have, you know,ten years now, and so just seeing where things were compared to where theyare now and like I just wish that I had that, you had knownright like the bitcoing phenomenon that I had, I can Mr Bitcoin, which die. Yeah, that I had reached kind of a financial place where Icould have, you know, made a run at investing in some like weknow that, you know, Otto and Andrew particularly have, you know,made some higher end card purchases with their chars ards and their various, youknow PSA graded cards, and that was just never something, you know,I was able to get into. Is, you know, a lot of mymoney was going towards school or going towards, you know, just evenattending events and things like this. But you know, it's just kind ofit's kind of interesting, like, you know, what could have been ifyou had bought, you know, those chars ards for what, you know, five years ago would have seen like an extraordinary amount, you know,a thousand dollars or whatever that number was. You know, certainly far less thanwhat it is today. Just it's quite it's quite the thinker. Yeah, I will say one thing that's especially cool about like pokemon collecting specifically isis the fact that people are genuinely attached to the characters of pokemon. Soit's like Yukio and magic. I think magic is a couple of standout likecharacters and cards that people get attached to, but pokemon like, I mean wespecifically called out chart chars our people earlier and not even digging at themhere. It's just like people are attached to the character of Charles Ard.So pokemon collectibles, I think, inherently have more staying power and more likecompounding value because people actually like the thing on the card specifically and aren't justinterested in it because it's cool or whatever. And I think, yeah, that'sanother thing that is very interesting about the POKEMON trading card game is that, you know, chars art itself is like a brand to itself. Idon't know, like he could show is a brand to itself. It feelslike, you know, yeah, I...

...think of you and chars are arelike the to and Youtube, like like you too is a brand, mewas a brand to itself, and so like if you're a kid and youcan't get your hands on, you know, the first edition or whatever all theadults want, like there are they still print these cards, like theystill print these chars are cards and like you open one from a pack thatyou know it's worth, you know, significantly lest you know, Bucker to, but you're still like yeah, you know, I feel kind of apart of that, you know, and that, I don't know, tome, that's that's like so fun. Yeah, one thing, I mean, I personally enjoy like collecting pokemon in general. Like yeah, on myown right like I have a Pikachu and a Peche collection and a roulet collectionas well. It's cool to like well, have that like rallies obviously been outfor very short, amunt time, but it's cool to see like thecars evolve over time and like be a part of like that character's journey almost. I don't know how else to describe it. I think that's something uniqueto collecting pokemon that others, trading card games don't offer, and I doreally like that part of it is. The characters are part of it,you know. Yeah, and and it's like it's a little bit different thansports cards to write, because you have a sports card and the the theplayer is limited to the, you know, seasons that they had, right,the seasons that they played, the stats that they had, you know, and then, you know, presumably they would have, you know,multiple different cards per each season, but like it's very finite the amount oflike poses that they can capture, the amount of, you know, statsthey can put on the back. But, like with Pokemon, you can havenew arts, like we've just had. In the last year we've had whatwould it have been like six new chars art arts? So cool.It's a lot of ours arts. Like the possibilities are limitless. You canput chars out on anything. It's just so cool it. CHARS are youput you can put that on anything and it's a money maker. Put Iton skateboard man. Yeah, someone's got to do that. If you havesomebody should for sure. But then that's kind of it's kind of interesting too, because then you can kind of potentially try to figure out what the nextbrand is going to be. Right, so you could say, okay,well, chars ARD and then Pikachu. Those are probably, you know,mewtub mew, those are probably like the standouts from Gen one. And then, you know, going into gent to, like you probably have Marion, Toga, pe, Lugia, man Ugya, Lugia Hoo, potentially. I don'tI don't think how as much as Luviya. I know I never understoodthat. I always loved how way more. I think that. I think themovie was part of it. Maybe, yeah, sure, but it's justinteresting, like what's going to be the next thing? You know what'sgoing to be the next just like nothing will ever top chars ared, assuredlyat in terms of POKEMON card merchandise. But yeah, I don't know that. Certainly there are things that people can be on the lookout in, likefuture, jen you say like okay, this Pokemon Card in twenty years,because it's part of this. You know, species is going to be more highlyvalued than something else. You See. Is that what they called? Arecalled species? Yeah, I mean there's species of Polko. This isfunny to hear you like refer to him in that way as a species.So actually, I have I have an interesting query for you. What recentlyreleased? So Jen seven or Jen a Pokemon, do you think will bethe one that's like really nostalgic in twenty years? Um, my gut answeris toxtricity, just because of the interesting skateboard, but I personally don't likeit that much. I honestly would have to say something like Dragon Polt draglike that's that's pseudo legendary. Yeah, people really like dragged bolt. Ithink it's a good candidate. I was just a sleek design man. Iwas also thinking like Tapoo Coco would be pretty memorable looking really okay, Ithink people really like I like cocoa. I think it's cool. HMM,like the tapoos you think will be. I think specifically Coco. I thinkspecifically COCO, okay, because it has kind of that it just very thatkind of peaceful feel. He's like Sleeker, he's bouncing around, which is kindof fun. Yeah, like in the video games. He like halfback and forth. I could see cocoa. I could also see like decision ironsin rare being very fondly remembered. Okay, yeah, yeah, incantor could be cool. Since then or got smash as well. Right,I was going to say. Certainly there would be some tie in, likeany anytime you have a character that can do kind of this crossover where itjust makes sense. Yeah, yeah, certainly they get just more exposure andmore people enjoying that. And then you look at the anime. I haven'tkept up too much with the anime, but certainly something like, you know, Granninga right ashes grow. Sure that...

...was a big thing. Ash Canardwas sick and the head of a the card suck. Yeah, yeah,for sure, for sure. But I mean greninger might be the perfect stormwhere you have yeah, well, I specifically said Jan seven and Jenny,because Greningjas like the obvious answer from densis. Yeah, yeah, no, no, for sure for sure. But if you're looking, you know,just a shade earlier, I don't know what would be the comparable pokmon fromseven and eight. Yeah, they haven't really. They haven't put out aGran Ninja since. I feel like Gr Ninja was just almost like designed tobe so cool. You know, that's true. That's true. Everybody lovesNinjas. I just never understood the tongue thing. Like I feel like thatshould have disqualified it from being as cool. I like this. I like thetongue. You like the tongue really the tongue scarf? Yeah, that'skind of cool because a frog. Yeah, I mean it makes sense, butlike it also it also is kind of weird. I don't know,it's like weird to imagine it in real life like having but in the videogame where it's like far away from me, it's fine. Yeah, what's thattongue do? Like? Can you imagine like hugging your Grninja after abattle and like his tongue is just like right there? Do you think ituses the tongue as an extra hand, like to like pat you on thehead, like it hugs you with its arms and then it like I hope, I hope and I can't wait for the I mean that's going to bethe coolest thing in twenty years when we have, you know, full virtualreality pokemon. You think twenty years is all that we got left like untilit happens? I mean I think it could happen in ten years, probablywhen the computers are writing all the all the code and they're like self,self replicating. Yeah, so it's gonna be exciting time, for sure.I can't wait to meet Ours Art Grninja in the virtual realm. Yeah,I'm definitely gonna, Definitely gonna. Well, what would be your first did ShualPokemon? That's good question, peech you. Oh, of course youwouldn't want to go with something a little more off brand? No, Iwas thinking, like maybe I go for a SCRULP. I could go fora scirl from see what he's yeah, scrub is sick. Yeah, scrubspretty cool. I love like a Shinx. I always really like to luxury toshinks. was like my first ever shiny, which is cool. That'sa good shiny. Yeah, it's nice and gold. Yeah. So well, I think we've reached the natural conclusion for today, so it's W aswe close out today. I have one question for you. If you couldhave a collection just that has no it all montery values removed from it.You can't sell it. If you could have a collection for one pokemon,what would it be? Well, it's gotta be Pikachu, because then youcan get the world championship cards. Look those, I mean those are socool, like they just they look and I again the monetary value has somethingto do with that. Like I'm obviously going to be biased because they're allworth, you know, thousands of dollars, but they just look fresh. Well, let's say like any pokemon have like a comparable, like level ofmerge. Okay, okay, what would be that Pokemon for me? Yeah, what do you come to mind? I mean, don't say peach you, but do you have one that comes to one? Give me a giveme a second to think. Im Peach is like my easy answer, butI would have to say, yeah, I mean my favorite Pokemon is dragonI, but I don't think that that. I don't think necessarily the Dragon Ilooks that good. You know I'm saying. Yeah, like no,I did, I got it. He kind of Chunky, look goofy,little, goofy, little goofy looking, got a little, you know,tentacled things coming on his head. So it probably had to be some sicklike Ray Quasa or king draw O, King Dra. Yeah, that's acool it's very cool. That's a cool answer, I think. For me, I mean peach you I would take for sure, but excluding peach youfrom the equation, hmm, quiz is a good answer. I think.I think Meta gross would be really sick. HMM. Yeah, you know better. Gross is a cool pokmon. He is one of the sick atShini's. He does. Yeah, yeah, I agree, I'm agreeing, agree, Nice. Well, thank you all so much for listening. Letus know on twitter at tag team Pokemon what Pokemon that you would want tocollect or you think deserves more merchandise, and we will catch you on thenext time. Peace. See.

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