Sounder SIGN UP FOR FREE
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 24 · 1 year ago

2-24. The Meta Knights

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys deep dive into their thoughts on the meta at large. How is Pokemon doing? What could be changed? Riley and JW are very opinionated on this..

Hey hows it going everybody welcomeback to tag team. The POKOMON trading card games for MEOR podcasting do myname is Raley holvert joined by my good good friend, JW CRWALL GW hasn'thangitmath. It is hanging pretty well Ryly, I'm getting ready for my bigvacation yeah. We are going to the upper peninsula ofMichigan for a week. Next week I will be phoneless twitterless instagram. I don't really use ISCREEMface P asthe, grom bro. I do have an Instigram, but I I don't know how toutilize instagrea Isgraas a very for I just recently learned how to usetwitter. I don't think, that's true, well, useit appropriately sure Um, I yeah, so I use it appropriately,but for INSC I just don't know what I would put. I did create an inscreinwith the idea that I would like post like card pictures. 'cause apparentlyinstram is a really good way to connect with people. I know people I likeAlimard, celler, marke. Well, yeah! That's what I'm saying, but I justdon't. I don't know I don't discord. I don't really understand not that muchdum. So it's all. It's a mess over here inin then flex staddy land yeah. I don't know if ie mentioned this on the cast,but one of my favorite things is one you ant Andrew are trying to get astream going and like need to discord, works to me. The discord interface just isn'tintuitive. It is so intuitive and ro it s ally at work. You know, it'll be likeeight am I'm at work and all the se posts on my phone like if you andangere trying to get discurd towork like in the discord chat, anel pop inin the discorde hat. This is little inside of Infolk for all the listeners,so we have like a discor channel that all of our like friend group uses andthere's a ton of Voi, Shaners N it and one of them. I specifically made for JWandew to use lall streaming, because it has a two person limit on the voicechap. So no one can like pop in there and mess with them. They have litly,never used it every time iexcept for one time, and I don't know how you evendo that. How do you ran ther precisely one time and never used it again? We did it. We did it that one time yeahwe're we're fine, we're fun, we're learning, e'r learning I mean you, I you can teach an old dog new triks. Ittakes a while, though no it does because we're set in our wayst. Youknow when I grew up. I had to fight for my thirty minutes ofa Ol Messenger. Every night you know I had to use dial up. You know it's adifferent world like I grew up before the Internet. So not really I mean reallybro. We had a computerfiacting like hrceed. She compared to me Youre Justwe, had we hadnot a puteaspeditonuly just play like ice by haunted house on the computer. You knowforty five minutes like we didn't really do anything in computer class you're like not even that much olderthan me, andyouretacing, like elike five thousand years old, I'm justsaying I'm just saying we ha dial up you know is a different world. It's adifferent time! Twenty seven years ago I mean I was two years old and playingfredy to fish. You know straight out of the SA of the womb yeah. You know, ocanplay Freddy Fish. No, you know, like you know that whole genre, like theFreddi fish and the pyjama SAMs, and I was I was just going to bring up hi jamof Samma, so they're the same idea. I occupyd hon the name space. I don'tknow if in company, okay, yeah and then there's I lell Yo, the pup pot as well,I loved Paja, Sam e Jeson was good yeah. I sometimes I like want to go back andlike find those games. I haven't found like a good resource for that. Therewas one that I really used to like where it was like they. They wereadventurers and it was this adventure game but its scaled. So there was likea first grade through like a twelfth grade or SOM something, but you weregoing on different adventures every grade and it was something about. Iremember the one that I was in. I think it was like this volcano type thing. II really miss it 'cause. I remember having a really good time and actuallylearning something from it yeah, but my favorite game. It was like a flash game. Iremember, I think it was on. You know, funny junk or something Ah,and it was this monkey pilot game and you use the Eraqees and you controlyour monkey and he's in a spaceship and he he glides around and you're tryingto avoid the spikes and land your...

...monkey in the Plao. Wait. Do you know what I'm talkingabout? No, I don't okay ch help me out. What am I talking about here? What'sthe monkey game, I will say, though you know discord. You know it is a little newage, but you are still. You are young enough to occupy that age group, Hinkey,Landerbro, mmonklylander, inkey, lander, Mani, clip wow. Okay, we might have toplay the ames dream was quite the genre. What I was going to say is my flashgame of choice. Kinda almost like an ancestor to discord in a way was clubhanguin. You know you just gain with the boys and chatting on the clientlike in a way like occupied the same realm. Sure sure mymy browser game of choice was unreal tournament or my my computer game ohoeson Realternative Quak, and all that that was amazing, Yeahi oe arazing. Inever played any of that stuff, so mean really. I was kin oxy a completelydifferent space than me. It's like we lived on two differentearths yeah. It realyis so diving into it, though I think wehave some cool updates on the players cop going on. Obviously the second week.It just happened and players continued to advance honestly the mtastated aboutthe same in terms of representation Um. I think there are some notablecallouts, so your deck is locked in right over thecourse of the event, like the whole the whole way through we wanted we to 'cause. It is Hig ondouble, Eatontermin tournament. Isn't I was going to say, I'm pretty sure it is lived in soactually ith the way you were talking earlier. I was right to start yeah. Iguess you were yeah. I guess you were. Okay, so for contaxt we were looking atthe charts that POMANTCG had tweeded out, because that's the only that's the only only inrsite we haveinto the players cot like as at macro level- and we were talking about some of thetrends between Chart Dechar and we we're j were like mildly debating aboutwhether it represented like success or representation. But now that we'retalking about it more, I think they actually are the same thing: Rightyeahyou're, right, Um, you're right, so, let's I'me into it. So when week on, wesaw some- I don't know about standards. That'syou know, probably about what you'd expect Um Pretty in line with what wesaid would be the the representation of these decks. So you have PKRAM andDragonpole both occupying about twenty to twenty five percent um every the next most popular dect beingxashianvariance Cambo and IM ADP opying AOTHERR, like seventeen percent, andthen you had esepalon taking thirteen and then just the rest of the decks Um.I guess of or Ano other yeah. So everything else just occupied the restof the metow o you to and others Ashian variants and stall shricks and aspiritomb. You know t s stuff, we all know in love. Um Week too, was a little moreconcentrated, which is in some ways to be expected as you go or the course ofa tournament like the best thect will separate itself. Trom saw a prettymassive surge in popularity between we one. A week too jacoful saw lightincrease going from O Twen Thri to twenty five. I would say: That's youknow. In macro terms, hat's probably got thesame Y Digron, though jumping from nineteen to twenty six percent. That'sa lot of success for Pearon players. At this event. Yeah it is it is. I thinkit speaks to the consistency of the deck you look at just you know the amount of things that youneed to do and and what you can accomplish on a first tern, I think,like Pekaram, has maybe the best early game m of any of these decks. You knowyou look at aeklyvariants and, like they're GOINGTO, just pass a turn. Youknow. That's! That's almost a guarantee, with most of the zaushandecks same with,like a Bli effalon like they're, going to pass a turn, maybe two, maybe eventhree and then obviously drag apolt like Youv, just you're givin up thatfirst turn your best first turn that you could possibly give a dragpoll is atash pass, and so you look at Pikaram and it has this insane a turn onepotential, and so I think you look at that, and it makes a lot of sense whyit did so well and why it performed. Well, you know into the second week ofcompetition yeah I mean it really drives home the same kind of thingsthat we've been talking about about Om, just being consistent about being abeaste and really putting pressure on deck so fast that, especially in adouble elimination, style tournament,...

...where you know you can't afford to losereally Um. This is a really solid choice for thatevent. So it doesn't surprise me at all to seePeterom be over representaed over represented in the second week relativeto the first, just because it's so consistedt thatmore m more players will likely succeed on average with pecran relative toother dacks. Maybe maybe it has like a lower ceiling. I don't really think itwas that much lower or I ing yeah. No, I I wouldn't say that, but Um. Idefinitely think that some lists were pretty interesting. I did see a few ofthe list. I I can't remember who this speaks to what Wallace is asking in thechat this speaks to, you know, do we know who made it and Pogman hasn'tpublicly put out deckless or players that finished in the top Um. You know moving on to the next. Youknow week of competition, but Um. I've seen some of the lists from players incertain areas and just like the ways that you can construct. PKRAM have beenreally cool and I've seen you know list with four tad calls. I've seen a lot oflists that have shifted away from the two boltond going down to just one.Having that as kind of your lake ame finisher but kind of R relegating it tomore of a right, you ridtche spot where it's like you're, not really relying onBulltin to win you the game, but it's just that auxiliary attacker that youhave so a lot of I I would say from some of the lists that I've seen likeeven still there's some innovation to be had with the picture. Zechromlis,yeah and Kikram is just a great deck to innovate with, because it's got such asimple core to it that you can pretty much fill the void with whatever elseyou want. I mean people even realistically can play Dck like GreenTgram, which it sounds silly at times, but other times tree people like doingwell with it at least I relatively speaking Um. So you know at the end of the day,Pegramit Jus such a simple deck that you know it'll find this consistentsuccess. Tie after time I mean realistically, since since team up cameout, PT Gramhas Been B most consistently playe deck yeah, and I Imean it's cool. You can go Drachi, you can go, no Daracu an go. Ans, you cango volkinger, you can go. You know heavy Dadenna, you can go light thedn.I mean there's a lot of ways that you can heavy tag. Call no TA. I meanthere's just so many ways that you can play the deck that you can really adapt it to what whatyou feel kind of fish your needs fits your metagane fits. You know the waythat you can sceptualize the deck thats really great. So I think you know wewere talking about this heading into the Players Cup that we feelPicachunazaram was just going to be a general choice for that early game, aggression that it canprovide the kind of general consisency. I would say that it has in relation toa lot of the other decks and Um. You know kind of the ease of acquiringcards for someone that you know maybe was generating a lot of tickets, butdidn't have it here, one deck I mean. I think that was I. I don't want to saythat that's a lot of players, but certainly there are those players thathave you know likely advanced pastweek too, that just maybe you know, played alot of played a lot of TJ but didn't really use metadacs and, like maybe hadto turn to something a little bit more standardized. So for those reasons youknow you're looking at pictures, acramis as being a really strong choice,heading in the Players Cup and proving US right, yeah. A one thing I do findinteresting is how centralized this matter really God in the second week ofplay, we saw all of the nichtecks. So if you take all f this austion variants,the vsephlons, the jagbults and the Pacachoese, they took up more of a Metaat large and then the rest of the matter keep shrinking. One thing Ifound especially interesting was the other dacks which comprised a hugeamount of things. I'm sure just shrink to two thirds of what it wasbefore so at's, a pretty intinancial dip M. I mean to me what that says: is theMetoi is very centralized right now the decks are clearly defined as beingthe best tak, and you know if you're playing it's like kind of one of thoseweird medisores like if you're playing outside these, like top war decks. It'salmost like a trolling yourself right right. Well and you look at it. Imean they're so far in a way better in, in my opinion, than a lot ofthe other decks like just the the since I've played like weve. Never well,I don't want to say never, but I haven't really seen this kind ofquality across the board from the top. You know for decks, just being head andshoulders really in my eyes above the rest of the field like it's almost noteven close and a lot of times, it's not even fair Um. You know you look at likecounterdaxts like obstagoon, where the most played deck has like R, reasonableshot at beating obstagoon. You know...

Pekram like has a reasonable shot ofbeating obstagon in any given match up, and that's just that's just Wyd like itjust takes ther aren't even jouners to the best stecks that reliably win so mthese towfor decks being you know, Pkram Dragopole, Blasaflon and thenAzahan variant, Um really taking control, like you said the metagame andthere's almost well, there's no reason to really play anything else. Yeah andyou know, if you look at the numbers in that kind of way, I think a lot ofmedas will paint a similar story. Where there's you know clearly some batterdecks and that's just the nature of Card Games right. I think Progabadactually done a relatively good job of spreading. The love, like you know,rigt. I I would say, like four variants of decks being like the main meadow isa pretty reasonable amount like yeah. When you look at things like other cardgames, Ugeo and magic they've had lot of medals recently, even where it'sbeen one day and that's Sur, I'm sure. Maybe too so you know, I I like to getpocomon its credit, but the MEDA is fairly centralized and when you havesuch a divers array of decks and a cast of characters like Pokamon- and I thinkthat almost is what makes the this sentialize Meta in Pokman feellike a little worse, just ecause, there's so many like beloved charactersin the SRS that like when you don't get to use your favorite ones it justalthough to be f counterpoint, you know, Pokmi is able to double up or sometimestriple up with the tacteam cards. Oh, they used to be yeah. Now how thes are cancelled rightexactly another victim of of twenty onth of culture, yeah they'regoetactins sent some mean things ontitter, that's right, yeah, so I mean overall. I think Ithink it's probably a fine direction like the Matte is probably notridiculously unhealthy, can't say I'm a huge fan of exactly where it is right.Now, though, just the game is your whole Um Adwe've talked about this before on thecouse and off Um. I just I don't like these giganticPokama and just swinging back for multimal prizes at each other. Allthyeah yeah, especially as I played more and more ofthese old formats like using table top simulator and yeah, and just like youknow talking with my friends online. I really prefer when the game takes aslower stance and you know, shirt worse, to evolve and route. Your prizes reallymethodically like I will say what this metod has done better than more recentones is there's less one shotting um outside of like witafalon, there's notreally much one shoting going on. I guess Sauchin is like one shottingthings for three prizes: Ather eadings, yeah sure Ahsure, but you know, I think at least theconcept of Multiacaos is is a good direction but like when I think of the most fun Medisto play. I think of ones where you actually have to take six price cards,and you ha to figure out how you're going to do that. Six attacks, you meanB'cause, I mean obviously we're giting six five scars on six, a poke aon yeah.Those were my favorite medals to play. Yeah by far and away, I really enjoylike figirng out those rauts thinking about resources, and none of that stuffreally feels, like course, to mine. I mean B Sepams, the only deck that Ithink really devotes brainpower to resources and then only because ittosses them all away in the process of one shot, yeah right right and I thinksomething that some of the older formas to do really well also, at least in the Gxera, is kind of y.You contrast like this very powerful pokemine, with its very average andweak basic, and so there's some opportunity to kind of cut the head off before Um. You know the damage can bedone. You know in a sense like you can you can really get after the Zaruas,because when they have omen Dezork, it's going to be Yo, know a lot harderand they get really strong, but they're kind of vulnerable. For that one turn,and we don't really see that a ton in this Mata game, yeah wramost, there'sthat vulnerability. Where you know you can you can really disrupt an opponentbefore they can get going ll. What I was going to say is: Besides the ZashaAndak, that take multiple extra prizes. You know the two prize: Versons arethree prize for some of those vs and B maxes doesn't really make a differencein some CA, yeah Um, you know you're still going to have to take either twoor three knockouts, depending on which one you 're Kaoing, so yeah, it's justkinda feels rough and another thing actually looping back to gx's, and wetalked about this last week. I think, but um you know being able to control like theprizes on your board a little more, both in even and odd direction. So, ifyou WAN to only have one prizes on your board with t a gx stack, you can dothat. You know to see ot fe, your...

...basics fill the board. If you want toonly have two prizers, that's also a thing like if you, if your Ponis takinghe ig prizes, you just evolve all yoursruas like put your laylay down tofill your bench, and you know now you have these big guys that you need totake an exxtrapise. I play the seveprize game like I feel like a lotof this nuance is just not here right now. I and I don't know what necessarily hascaused it, but it feels less satisfying to me Inie MHMYEAH. I wonder if therewere any bans that I mean just this is all like hypothetical and, likeretrospect like, if there was a band that you could make to this Medagame,do you think that there is a ban that would solve the problems and if thereis, what would you ban? Not Really I mean if you had to ban anything, it wouldprobably be ADP just 'cause. It stifles out all the one prize Dacx, but if youlike, we Drago Pol almost kind of does the same thing yeah. I know in adifferent way. It takes a different route to also choking out like smallerdacks yeah. So I I don't know if I have a good answerUm, I think one of the BEA topokons got at one of the better things aboutPokaman, that pokona magic bullshare is the rotation system and in theory therotation system allows you to dial back the power level of the format, becauseyou can get into some cards that will temporarily be crap, and then yourotate out the cards that are overpowered and then the game is likein a better state. Again, yeah hat, I don't think is happening, though, is Idon't think poan actually takes advantage of the system that is put inplace for itself M, like rotation, has allowed them to experiment with thingslike we ditact to us for rotation and now we're doing vse and emaces for arotation. Who knows what the next mechanic will do, but instead of likeusing s Opportunitii to like move the power level up and down just keepsgoing up, which isn't, in my opinion, the way tohandle it like why? Why even have a rotation at the power level? The carsis just going to get higher and higher right right. Exactly that's that's areally really good point and to see you would like to see Pokman kind of likemove in that middle ground. Maybe trend upwards, because you know generallylike more, he p and more power is like going to sell more cards. You kN, Ithink, that's just the general thought, like you look at it a card that has twopockamon on it and that's cooler than a card that just has one pok omon on itor a card that does yinsan amount, O damn thever, so Eteron a car thatdoesn't b. You would like to see the balance in away that things could come back and things can dial back, and it does feellike we're on this runaway train in a sense that we're kind of creening off and likegoing upwards at this exponential rate. Do you think that a more vinaxdominated matagame will solve any of these issues that we're talking aboutwith this current metal? I mean I definitely. I definitely think vemaxeswere a better idea than taty teams in terms of yeah like Gamebalands, I thinkThac Gans were cooler. Cars Yeah, I think teaxes are potentiallybetter designed cards Um and you know Maycak that that comesback to what we were talking about with like this Gx era, where you couldevolve, you know again going aut to like ZERUATOZORC. You know it's justit's it's a better kind of idea there, where you have to choose whether not toevolve your vmacs or not, but I don't think vnaxes are as good as theevolving gxis. I think if olving jaons are probably one of the bettermechanics they've done in the last few years and on the whole, I think black andwhite was really the turning point where afterwards things started toreally ramp up Um. So you know it's hard to say right now.None of the vmaxes are like so insane that they, you know, just destroyeverything and Yeh loweerything out of the Water Jagopol's, really the onlyone that Ha that problem. I guess, if you WAN, to call it that Um, so I I think ten access have thepotential to like slow the game a little bit, but you know we still runsn the same problem where we have gigantic Pokman. They give multipleprizes and I don't, I think, the way thatpokonis design ing their cars theye kind of rabbit hold themselves wherenow you keep digging deeper and deeper as, like your mechanism o solve theproblem and it it extends beyond the multiprie spokeman too right 'cause.This single price boke on, have to do more damage and have more HP to dealwith these giant Popmon to even be a viable thing at all right, and so you know, because Thi single pricebookmen are also escalating, like there's no basis to deescaate theproblem, yeah yeah yeah, I mean in a sense you could see- or at least I cansee in the current Metto, where they did try to have that balance, and thatcomes in the form of blasaphlon and spiritum. I mean those are ourprominent one prizes, but you can see there kind of the gear turning I Ithink you know really with card design,...

...and you know focus and things like this,so blasaflan just being able to have that one shop potential, but maybe notas Um, not as cost efficient in those one prize matchups like you, look atthe BLACEPAN versus Malamar matchip, when that was a thing and Blseplan justcouldn't even compete really, and so I I felt like Gloseflon, youknow, lovider hated is this kind of yes savior of this format in the sense that it does allow, for you know if yeah,just certain things were banned like or if certain things weren't created likeit would allow for maybe a a little more healthy of a Medagaine. I don't know I say maybe, but you knowif we live in a world er bebl T seflon. Currently the only viable single prizearchetype like maybeecepalon itself, is just also a problematic cart. You know, but I mean in my opinion it reallyisn't like you need so many pieces to Combo. Well, with Babble Saplon I meanthey gave it a lot of tools. So, okay, there's there's that, like it's prettyinsane the amount of stuff you can do Elondeck, but you do need a lot ofCOMPA pieces in anyone turn and I think, that's fairly, you know fairlyreasonable to give that kind of card those amount of tools against what ithas to go against in these VIMAC and Tang Tin Pok on yeah. I guess I I guessI would agree more if there were like actual one prize archetypes that wouldpunish the cost inefficiency of it. Well, that's and that's again, that'swhyt, I'm saying like when you look back at the format where Bleseflon andlike a deck like Malamar were two big contenders. You know you couldn't takea BLISSALON DEC to a tournament that had Malamar because it just wouldn'tperform well, like the the ratio of energy to m prizes was just too bad forthe blasephlon player and so, like you, see, ADP kind of stifling out endzashin prism, Cambos, ation kind ofstifling out those one prize, dects like a Malamar Um. So I don't know Iagain and that kind of rotates back to what you're talking about. Maybe if youban an ad p or something, then you have like a rise or resurgence of a decklike Malma or something, but that's neither here nor there yeah. I mean, Ithink if we had to point a one card that is strangling them ot it at all. Ithink it's probably ADP JUS CPERTUM is existence. It makes y yeah, I think,Dragopol again rederating. I think Dragapol will have a similar effectwhere it can continue. freat damage, especially like having no folving oneprize tack against Dragopole, like that sounds horrible re. You know YEA Ayiping, he're candyagainst dragonpole man that sounds awful e, yeah yeah you're definitely going to have abedtime. I don't know. I think the problem is, you know, even thoughrotation in theory allows you to dial back power levels to do that, you need to print sets ofunsatisfying cards like the cards need to be substantially weaker for multipleslets and a royal, which means that the meadow won't change for the duration ofthose sefting added to the game. You know what I'm saying so yeah and notonly that, like from a sales perspective like if I'm a businessmantrying to sell my pokman cards, you know I don't want to print cardsthat are worse. You know who's going to buy those rigt rightright. I mean it'sdefinitely a tuit's, a tough spot. I feel like just in general for Um for Card Games, like you said, likethey're stuck between this, you know. Okay, how do you know we go from thesegxes that are pretty pretty strong compared to what we had before and then?Okay now we go into tag teams and N. Okay. Now we have venaxes and it's likethe HP, Gethihe and the attacks get m. You know more crazy and, like I don'tknow, I'm a little fearful about what happens next. Yeah Yo know we we thinkabout. You, know whether it be a new mechanic or just more Pogamon VMAC,like I'm L, got to say a little bit concerned about what we we'll see inthe next year or two when the new mechanics come out, because on thecurrent trend, you know we're seeing in post rotationion, at least that kind oftesting ground, that there aren't really a ton of viable, certainly not aton of viable one prize Dex. I think it it is going to be centered a lot aroundthe vmax Poke Mon and just what does that mean for the game and doesthat make the game any more or lessfun? I think the answer is less fun. I I'm optimistic, but it's just you look past that too, andjust thinking about the power creep and where could take us and it's prettyscary yeah it is. I mean I, I really don't want to see the day where fourPrie Pokeamon Getfrien...

...yeah, you know eventually or just havea biprice ord. You Know Lia Sixp, I mean I mean realistically,like a six price, Bok Mone, you know you knock this one out like it'd, beit'd, be incorporated, like maybe with the rain mechanic. Where you know youjust have this massive gigantimax and it takes. You know you knock it out andtakes all T it Suxpris that has like a thousand health or something I meanthat Caime, something very reasonable. That could happen yeah. It could be like a legend kind ofcard where you like, take two cars and make it one o I'm giving them an idea.You know or Cutboin Post. I gue, I coul see. SoI gal see that it is the worst part like a two part, really nice hollowcard thatis worth like six prices, and it has like seven hundred helf. Youknow yeah, I I regret even like saying it andrspeaking it into existence into the sphere of my w existence. So Yeahmassifor gets there. You know, that's not to say I hate Bok. I LIKOA'sstill my favorite card game to play. It's still my favorite game t myfavorite series. I just I think it's a natural problem that card games runinto and it's a really hard one to to manage yeah. You know I I don't know ifthere's a solution fundamentally to the problem of balancing card game yeah Imean it. Maybe it comes down to. I think one thing that we're looking atlike again in this post, ortation metagame is like you're, not reallysomething that we've had in the past, that you're not seeing heading into thefuture. Are these counter cards? These have balanced the game throughout myten years in the game where it's like you know, if your pogemadelis knockedout, then you do an additional amount of damage like a retaliate kind ofattack, or you know, a copy kind of attack thatwould hit a Pokamon for weakness and they're a little bit more splashble. Ithink about things like Mimic, U or Tarakian or a Drudagon. If anyone remembers thatfrom like five or six years ago, but these kind of retalian attacks that canbe powered up fairly efficiently, countergain or like a double colorlistor you know an energy and a some way to accelerate, but just beingable to hit those weaknesses that otherwise that deck couldn't hit tokeep the deck alive in certain match, ops that it otherwise wouldn't have the ability to overcome, andthat's something that I'm seeing here in this Sord, an shield era of cardsthat is lacking, like we really aren't seeing these kind of retaliate attacksbeing printed or at least splashable attackers. And when you consider that the primary mechanic that seems to bepushed out now is like these vemaxes, like you'd kind of need to hit forweakness to one shot them Um. It's tough! When you don't have theseretaliated attacks, because it means that only a specific archetype cancounteract you know the top architype and that that's a little bit concerningto me as well. I would counterpoint that and sayingthat I don't think it would be healthy to have very efficient attackers able to onehit co vnaxe one: okay, okay, like a basic one, prizor being able towna Ko O v Max, I don't think, is any healthier than what vaxes are alreadycausing interesting. Okay, I just elaboratemore on that. I mean what o you think. Realistically, what we Ou want out ofthe game is we want Tahe, slower and yeah by introducing just a bunch of oneprice spoke mine that an one Heca o anything like Bes zemaxes are areprobably not going to go anywhere regardless, but instead we just havelike these crappy counterproke 'em. On that just make everything feel horribleto play. You know and you're giving up so much.It's not like it's not like Tiraqi and onhcan O dark cing getting otwo prizes.This is, this is half of your prize charges thatyou're just giving up immediately for one tigting and like yeah. I thinkbuzwall is probably one of the better examples of how to handle that, whereasJrsyo want to Ge Big Wel, okay and, I guess youlay around sure, sure andansure- and that would be again something that I'v Just I'm, throwingout into the into the air here as just something that I am not seeing with thecar design of Sword Shield on I'm not seeing these kinds of countercarts likea buswl. That's a great example, actually a a very balanced card whereit's like insanely powerful on, like one term vall, now prpoststrong energy yeah right right, but I'm...

...just I don't. Maybe maybe there arethose kinds of cards that I'm missing, but I just haven't seen that from thissord sho black on and it just it kind of concerns me that there aren't thesekinds of cards that do significant damage. Two vmaxes, for you know asplashable cost yeah I mean I think in general, I'd like to see more like oneprize, boxy kind of dex be a thing Um. You know we were talking just yesterday in our group chat about like Riuesa in the twenty eighteenworlds, MEDA and buzzgarb shrine- and I think bozgarbs rine Um, while alsobeing kind of an oppressive deck, was a good example of like a one prize tool,box, Yo kind of dack. You know you use Y rainbows and your tackers and youbuild twisters to deal with. This is twenty eighteen worlds for the and, ofcourse, like buscarp shine, also, it l bled well into the twenty ighteennineteen season. So I think that's a a good example oflike wh a one prize, camary kind of style. Tack would look like you know.Obviously it's not the most consistent deck, just by virtue of being what it is like. A special energyreliant one prize deck, but in was very powerful. It dealt with the matter well,but it dealt with them met in specific ways like the meadow was very item Havylike rqasad. So the garbadors are really good against that. Thcombination of sledge hammer and billie lock was super good against Oorard Um.It was S in my mind, that's the kind of DEX Iwant to see more of now, sir, and as someone who really thought bus CapShind was horrible and impressive to play against in the early twenty NtyNinetyn season. I would rather have Mordex like thatthat force you to think about how you're playing the game yeah- and thatis true. It's true you did have to think about. You know. Okay, whan do Iwant to evolve and like in a splint evolution tree. You know that deckplayed one so window. I want to evolve into my trash Lanch, garbador and Wheno.I wanto ivolve into my Um. You know ability, lock, Arbatore and when do Iwant to attack with this pokmon versus this other POK Mon and like do I wantto bench something early if I know that it could get knocked out and that's myonly chance to you know, swing this match up and yeah. There were a lot ofthoughts that went into that deck, and I see your point there in that thiskind of maybe it's not a specific, like retaliate style, where it's like animmediate one shot on. You know a high HP pokmon, but it is kind of thisthinking deck that is based around basic or stage ones that only take youknow only give up one prize where you still had to do the thinkingyou still have to do the calculating the routes, the management, all thiskind of stuff, to put you in a position to win, but it wasn't, as I guessoppressive, is my initial idea, where it's just like. Oh, you knock me out,and then ai I'll, just attach my one energy and blow you up N, W, H, okay,that could get herry. That's what I'm saying. I think when I picture a healthier game,I think more turns is better. I think, like slower, methodical game playsbetter like yes, emaxes kind of have more methodical game play into eachother, but there's so little choice in what you're doing with a emac like alot of them, have one attack yeah thinkragople's, one of the few that hastoo U eside yet and there's like no realreason that you would want to u shred over the other. It's like it's, notwiim, not yoow, make on eoys. You know you should ov Bo one under and es Phantom. If you have to Breto that'sthat yeah. So I I would like to see more stufflike that, it's more of a tool box, more variety of attackers more turns. Ithink, that's where the skill expression is right, like the moreturns the game takes, the more actions that are going on and I'mdisincluding stall from that particular conversation. Anst all is a noskilldeck, but like the more M, methodical gameplaythat goes into it, the better players will succeed. The more you fun. Thegame is 'cause you're. Actually, thinking about whahat's going on, Iyeah and I will I will kind of Um C, it's not really a counter, but it'sjust saying that the skill right now you're saying that the skill is removedfrom the EEN game play r being lessened from the in game play. I would agree. Ithink that skill now is shifted. You know how much of it is up for a debateand whether or not it's like a very large shift, but a lot of that skillshift is going towards the deck building. I don't think yes, AU know, Imean the problem. I have with Deck Building Being Tho. The main source ofskill expression is that anyone can get a good list. You know and not just like. Not Anyone can make a good list, butanyone can get a good list sure whether...

...sore from an article or from a UTOvideo or someone shares it to them and they and then from there the gameplayassociate forward. You know- and I I don't want to this- isn't me likeinsulting anywhat or or like trying to Frad the gameplace being zero sko rightnow, 'cause. Obviously it's olike. You still see players consistently doingwell right now, yeahit just feels less so to me than in times that was moremethodical and slow hm sure sure a Y H, I I don't know quitewhat to say to that except yeah. I I would say that you know we still have,or we should still have innovative decklass coming out. You know postrotation h just things that we haven't thought of that maybe just shake up thewhole idea of what we're thinking post rotation can be. We have talked a lotabout this format and we'll still talk a little bit more about this warmouthere in the next couple of weeks, as we just move into this weird kind ofbridge time between current format and the new set and post rotation, but yeah it'll be interesting to see. Maybethere is some kind of combination of cards that does come out. That is exactly what we're talking abouthere like we think. I'm thinking about you know like C crbominable, h beingjust one of these Fokmon that I had no idea it existed and I had no idea thatit could, you know, see any play and obviously it has some really good use,and maybe there's some Dec that you know can use these kinds of attackers owe're just not even thinking of that kind of flips. The AD on his headdoesn't appear to be that way from from all the studying that I've fon onBostetation and all the stuff that I've seen fom ting from players and all the Games that I've tested andall you know, thought that I put into it. But you never know you know yeah and Al Reephosizees is not USwaving the flag of defeat. You know Ril or still in it. We still love the gameUm. We just would love to see it be better because we love the game. That's yeah, that's where it comes fromI'd love to answer some of these questions at least talk through themand shot yeah anjdankis asking how stall and control all but died out. Um.I mean not necessarily died out, but it's on a pretty low point. Right now Imean the staldeks. You know they have to hit hammers to succeed against stufflike dragopole and ADP cinsistently, especially with Di addition of boss'sorders into the Meta. So it's just in a tough spot and I don't think, there's areason to put yourself in that tough spot willingly when you could just playone of the better decks right. Absolutely absolutely, I think, just tojust to wrap up the and you we can answer. Obviously more questions afterthis, but just to wrap up my thoughts on this format is, I feel, like we are going to well. Iknow I will in a couple of years I may be kind of low on this format like howexcited I am about this car former, but I think in a couple of years you knowwhen we go back and revisit this warmat, I think we will find that there wasenough diversity and enough innerplay amongst the top decks to make it aninteresting forma in retrospect, a thin going through right now or seeing justyou know it's it's kind of the same stuff being rehashed, but I think goingback we'll look at this medigane and say you know what it really wasn't allthat bad. There was a lot of different options that you could do in terms ofdeck building D, a lot of different decks that you could play that all kindof had relatively decent matchs with one oanother.Certainly there were some, you know Um H. certainly there were some matchups thatyou know are just blowouts, but I than generally speaking, you haveinteresting game play amongst the top. You know five decks, and so I'm going to like this warmaut. I thinkin a couple o years, when we go back and play yeah, I mean you know theopinion of the format. I I don't want to harp on this river, but I think thOpiniong, O the format, is also informed by the foremats preceding it,and so what I mean by that is ye. You know: s've been playing Pekaram for ayear now, ween rse're playing Zashianvariance for Asir for half ayear, we've been playing Ed p variants for you know almost a year, so I it gets old. You know it gets pep e,be playing for a year and a half actually acty. Now I think about it. I time'sreally flown, so you know when you combined that it italso like paints, your your opinion of Howthins, a currently of course. Of course, not not not the hard perondefinitely,not Alexercia. Also asking Garbadar was really good for its time and reallyhelped slow down the game. What killed it off? I think that's a really goodoceration Garverlor definitely had a major impact on how people perch thegame when it was released. What killed it off the HP? The HPS got too high.garbador can't do that much damage...

...anymore it just it almost like, isn'tphysically possible for garbador to like you have to be doing somethingwrong. You have to be really going crazy, yeah for garbader to knockout anADP. You know especially garbeor yeah, exactlyexactly just yeah in expanded. You know, there's still some garbador thingsfloating around, but U'm in standards just wellobviously gaadors Rotan er,like I know that I'm just saying like in the way the dexs are built. inteterthere was an exact reburn of Garpotar. It wouldn't ka o anything sure, YEP YEP,exactly Wallace says here. Are you guys buyingdarkness oblaze cards? I think there is probably another scet beforetournaments are back, so are you buying any dark isplicecards? Roling um like physical cards? Yep? Not Not at the moment. I feel likeI'd rather just wait. Personal Age, I'm not going to be even if fisical eventsstart I'm not going to play in them until I think it is actually safe and Idon't think that'll be for a while in the United States. I think that I will keep my eyes out to full griped games tcom to see if theyhave any good deals and if they do have good deals. I pick 'em up but yeah. I mean kind of ECO thatsentiment just like trying to figure out what it would mean to have thesephysical cards, and I think I would just by them on onspecial or Onon adealor if ITA discounter, if I had stort credit or something to use up, butmaybe not going out on my way to get. You know, play sents F of everythingthat I need, as I would for like a normal set if it feels weird and itKindo just sucks to say, but again without table top tournaments, it's tough tojustify dumping. You know the money that you would normally dump into a newset in physical cards into that. What I will be doing for sure is: I will bebuying Rallet from the set 'cause I oversingle Raly I'll, be goin to oe games notcom for that, and I will also bebuying codes because I want to play online. Yes, I know no better resourcethan full grip codes. Dotcom there you go. I think the codes are like going toExplod. I think we've already been seeing this like uptick ineeral,oletive yeah. The codes are absolutely insane, so I would I would a hundredpercent go to a site that you trust for that kind of stuff 'cause I could. Icould totally see like a anyway, never mind forget I would go to a Esit, Itrass four codes and Um yeah and try to get try to get thosedeals 'cause. I E it should just boost up and up and up we've been seeing kindof a general trend with every new set relese that the codes go up and theyseem to get more expensive every single time. Yeah the Outerman Ninine Ann asking. Do youthink they will make the game more skill based? That is a tough question.Inherently, I think you know I I think they will try o know.I think they will do it. They can to introduce skilful archetypes, also maintaining business interests,and you know, following the will at the player base like oultimately like acertain kinds of playstyles and cards or whatis ends up selling. Well, then that's what they're going to develop to rum Al Carcia, asking probably the perfectcapzone question for the episode without Irl tournaments, which Bablaydo you think will dominate their current metol w thoughts say the red one with the strikes forsure yeah Alex. I think it's going to be the II'm a big fan of the left handed day: Blades, I'm a right, Hando Guy, but aleft Handa blater! So wait. Do you hold it in the lefthand and ripp right or you rip it with the Left and hold it in the right. I forget, but I remember they would asimply left handed dably. Ersad told me this when I played with them. So, okay,I think the left handed blades are really poised to dominate the matelright now, huhiall right! Well, only time will tell so that is our episode.Gus Think you so so much for joining us. It turned out to be a way longer upsothan we anticipated, which I feel like we always say: Yeah we're just reallycassionate. You know we get keed of discussion and we just keep talking so like said, thank you all so much forlistening. We appreciate you all your you're continued support mean so muchto us. You have no idea, especially this time is incredibly difficult t tomaintain the tempo of content. While you know, cove is happening andthere's no real, like tournaments and physical card tournaments are ophysical cars aren't really a thing...

...so we're doing our best for you, and weappreciate that return sentiment to us. If you have any ideas about things thatwe should talk about or any general fundinuances that you want to give usfeel free to follow us at taxing and poke 'em on on twitter and give us overa DM WE', be happy to see what you all gotand if we see anything particularly funny or interesting, we might read ithere on the gas, absolutely always looking for contentalways or thirsty for it very good. So I will be starting up theafter dark stream here and a second think you guys all for watching. We aretag team, followus again on twitter. You can watch the episode if you missedany of it: Catches on all the platforms, stitcher spotify itunes or on my UTUchannel Lextedi Rightos, I post the vad from the cast the day after ut beguseenjoyed this episode. I know it's a lot of fun to make and I will be out oftown next week but we'll catch you on the next episode see everyone. My.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (102)