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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 3, Episode 50 · 1 year ago

3-50. Season Three Finale!

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are wrapping up season 3 of Tag Team with a rousing adventure into the future of standard and a look at the GLC.

Yo, what is up? Guys? Welcome back to tag team, the Pokemon Training Card Games Premiere podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert, joined as always by my good, good friend Mr JW Curry, Wall Gw. How's it going today? Hey, it's going pretty well, Riley. How are you? I am on top of the world, man on top of the world. Well, you look on top of the way. You look like like Christian Bale or something, because I have a white shirt on. Yeah, white shirt, and your hair stop back. It's not really slick back, it's kind of headphones. Are doing that more than more than me, like a young Christian Bale. Thanks. I guess if you're listening on the cast, you're missing out. Yeah, yeah, well, I had this interesting moment at the gym yesterday. I was really feeling myself and I was like Damn, like, you're looking good right now, and then it made me think. You know, well, I'm also critically single right now. So if I'm looking this good and critically single, there's probably what isn't much more fundamentally wrong, right? You're probably not that good looking. Yeah, well, either that or like there's something so deeply wrong outside of my appearance, Brad, it cancels it out. Thanko, unfortunate reality that we live in. Thank what's been going on in your world, though? Well, I have been just chugging away at work and, yeah, I have been enjoying playing paper cards. I've been, I don't want to say addicted to playing or to like shuffling my deck, but I just have my deck out on the table and like whenever I take a mental break or like I'm thinking over something, I just like reach for the deck and start shuffling it up and if there's cards near me. Yeah, yeah, and like now that I have a full time job, like I feel a little less guilty about like going online and buying a few cards every so often. So, like I just kind of building up. I've never actually this is kind of a like inside baseball. I've never actually owned enough cards, like stable cards, to make two full decks at any one time, but I finally have that now. Yeah, like I have like twelve research you know, I got like six more Marni's on the way. You know, like I am just going hard trying to make sure that I can medium collection, full art right. Yeah, yeah, let's go with that. But, like I just you know, I get packages in every couple days of like, you know, a six dollar order or like a ten dollar order, and it's just got a few more staples that I can use to build a few more decks, because that is something that I really want to get into, is the tabletop game play, or at least a little bit more. Yeah, maybe it's not a weekly thing, but I've just been having fun with my setup and it's just another cool yet pol little wrinklestandrew Dankis on the other day. I was Super Fun. Yeah, it was a great time and look for more of that. Maybe, maybe, maybe, sporadically, but look for more of that. I think it'd be really fun too, because there is a pretty solid player base here in Columbus. I think it'd be pretty fun to like host a tournament here and then we could do like feature match up here on the on the table, and then we have a big table downstairs that, you know, everybody could play their regular matches and maybe do like a tournament one night and every regular plead matches. Yeah, they have to go downstairs and play on the you know, twelve foot dining table. Yeah, and if you're on the bottom table, you have to play in the basement. Don't even that kind of brings up bad memories. One time I played on a piece of plywood that, Oh, I was stretched out over a cardboard box. So there you go. Yeah, I've seen it...

...all, man, but yeah, I'm really excited to, you know, play paper again. I feel it feels weird like to go back just, you know, with like the Delta Varian and stuff, but I kind of feel like, after eighteen months, that I've earned it in a way, you know what I mean? Little entitled, but yeah, Yeah, a little entitled like I did my part. You know, let me play some cards, sure, man safely with my ask on, you know. Yeah, I don't know, it just it kind of feels like that to me. So, anyway, looking forward to it. Got A couple of tournaments this weekend, so there you go. Yeah, so, I mean you've referenced playing paper again. For people who maybe haven't been consistently listening or haven't been following the scene locally, what's going on this weekend? So there is the full grip games double header, two tournaments backtoback, Saturday Sunday. They start around nownish eastern time. So if you want to catch the stream. They're going to be streamed over on tricky JIM's channel. Andrew is going to be streaming those. But the first tournament on Saturday is a post rotation tournament that includes evolving skies. So not only are we going to see a rotation, but we're also going to get those new cards. People can play with the Ray quas of emax has, the Ryhans, the other you know, flavvy's whatever that they kind of come up waying Rey quays that without the flash. Yeah, I mean you can play with like a rose engine, like Turbo Patch. Rose. Turbo Patch doesn't work on the v Max is, though. No, no, you would turbo patch to the basic obviously. Come on, dude, come on, things rough man. That's Galerian articuno energy switch and then go into the going to the what's that other new card? The Yoga kickboy Meta Champ, the Meta Cham Yeah, and saying that, can say that we were talking about that before the cast. How I was like telling Riley my my impactful cards and it's like, Oh, glary and Articuno, Meta Cham V, and he's like, Bro, what are you cooking up? What saucy decor cook come up with those two. I'm like no, no, they're impactful in their own ways. But we got the double hitters header. So there's that first tournament on Saturday post rotation, and then the Sunday tournament is going to be the GYM leader challenge format. Yeah, absolutely. So you know, Folker Games obviously a partner in the podcast here and we're really excited to play cars in person. I won't be able to go to the event, but JW will be Repp in the cast for but sad us and getting two wins, one for each of us. That's right, that's right. I will definitely dedicate my wins to you, Riley, for sure. You. Thank you. So we wanted to talk, though, about both of those formats. So the first half of the cast today we're going to be talking about the standard format and the second half will be talking about the GELC GYM leader challenge format. When we get into second half as well, we'll give a brief explanation of GLC if you're happy to be unfamiliar. But absolutely let's dive in a standard so evolving, skies is dropping and the sun and moon era is rotating. So we're looking at sword and shield to evolving skies for this upcoming weekend at the Full Grip Games k some very notable cards have been lost in the shuffle here, namely all the tag teams, namesake of the show, have been rotated at this point. Good news is we're not going to become the v Max podcast. Shout out to Stell. I wish gaming for five bits. And so the v Max is, though, are definitely dominating the format. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago and our opinion largely remains true that v Max is are the cards to look at heading into this format. They've already started honestly dominating even before tag teams rotated. They kind of just overtook the format with...

...their massive HP and impressive attacks, and we're just seeing that kind of boiled down in the post rotation format as well. Some noble other losses in rotation. I think the most notable, and you'll see why, is the mew from unbroken bonds, the barrier mew. So there is no like universal bench production anymore. Damage that very feeling. Meet Yeah, on the bench. That's a major loss. Yeah. So, keeping with that theme, there are several different decks that take advantage of that. There are new decks in evolving skies, like the jolty On v Max that snipes, and you obviously have like your zero or a V that snipes. But the the single car that comes to mind when we're talking about snipe damage, hopefully as a parent, and that's going to be the rapid striker she food deck with the whole rapid strike engine with intellion. I mean this deck is really the top dog, I think, just really the number one deck with the biggest target on his back heading into the post rotation format, and it's easy to see why. I mean you have the bench damage, so can very easily just take decks out of contention in a way, like just completely prevent them from being able to play if they have to set up pokemon. And that goes for other decks that are like playing the Intelli online to write, like you can snipe double desile and and now they've kind of like lost their engine. It's very efficient, it can attack for few energy and the Intelli online offers consistency that isn't reliant on like a crow bat or any sort of yeah, less reliable draw like that. Yeah, and because one of the things that I found with this format is that when you're relying on Crowbat to draw, you're often finding yourself drawing way less cards right like you're finding yourself crowbatting, you know, because you're needing this is like your hand right clogged in. Your hand just gets clogged. There's not really many good ways to decrease your hand size. You're often going to want to crow bat in the early game. So that's usually, you know, not necessarily after like an opponent's Marnie, which would be one natural way to reduce your hand, but you're going to want to crow bat early and to a lot of times. Well, yeah, yeah, exactly. So it just it makes it tough. Crobat is not the drawing gin that you necessarily want to have. I mean it's kind of a necessary evil in some decks. It's not the drawn Gen that you want to have, but you know, it's pretty much all we got. So if you are, you know, have, if you do have the option to play the Inali online in your decks, like go for it, right, because that's going to be just way more consistent in a lot of cases, oh for sure. And Plus, like if you happen to run into the rogue cap the peak, then you're not impacted by that at all and you know, just having the ability to hand select the cards that you draw is always really good, oh for sure. So I mean I don't think we need to dive too much specifically into Ershifu. I think it's strength are almost apparent by just kind of what the format is looking like. And I think what we're going to see, JW, and feel free to push back on this, is the formats going to kind of warp itself around rapid strike or she fu. So we'll see or she food do well and then we'll see decks kind of come up with the intent to counter it and then you may have counters to those counters. So let's step through that logic. Then I think the the obvious counter to rapid strike or she foo is of course going to be shadow rider Cali X, with the the psychic typing hidden for we kness and just a dealing out tons of damage. Talk to me about shadow rider GW. Yeah, shadow at her. I played against that...

...over the last you know, yesterday when I was playing with with thanks and it felt just a little slow. No, I don't know if that's necessarily because, you know, he didn't draw particularly well, or if the deck, you know, in fact, you know, just needed that extra turn from gang ar mimic you to actually be viable. But it just felt particularly slow when we played at the other day and I wasn't extremely impressed. I mean, obviously we've been saying, we've been singing the praises of the shadow rider Calie rex ability, one of the most broken abilities ever printed, and so like it is good, but for whatever reason it just maybe it was the list, maybe it was the draws. We only played a couple of games. So, like, I could have just been the draws, but didn't feel particularly well. I should say it would feel good if the game's lasted long enough, right, because you saw in the end of that last game that Dankis and I played, he was able to ramp up to the you know, three hundred ten damage and, you know, just blowing away my board. But the problem was he wasn't able to put on enough pressure early to make that light game damage matter. So that was where, you know, I was playing an Ershfu build. That was where I was able to take advantage and capitalize. I was able to go in very, very early and go aggressive. Now, I think if the list had been modified a little bit more to play to accommodate the maybe Chris Selam. So that could be a possible way to just get things rolling a little bit sooner. Right. Go in turn too, with a Chris Slia, get a bunch of energy and play and then all of a sudden you can start attacking with shadow rodders. I think that might be a way to, you know, mix up the deck, a strategy that we didn't really see and maybe you want to play, you know, two, three, possibly for Krisselia to make sure you get that on the first turn. But just just some thoughts. There's that didn't really put on a lot of early game pressure and that was what kind of, you know, made it slip. Yeah, and I was actually kind of thinking down a similar process. I was you kind of preemptively answered my question. You know, what do we think about the loss GANGAR MIMIC? You one of the most toxic tag team cards of them all and I think it actually does make a pretty significant impact. I mean, I keep thinking back to the Alex Jamanski versus a Zul series, where a zool kept struggling to get the full setup he needed before Alex could start taking advantage of his board with snipes, and that was with Gangar Mimic. Now, granted, Alex also had karate belt, which is rotating, but I think that's almost like a similar exchange in a way. Like you right, have that lockdown anymore, but you get the snipe. I guess you also lose the you know, you lose the Drashi for the weakness prevention, right, but the the DRATI wasn't really a huge factor in that series. Yeah, not particularly, and that's kind of what I'm finding. Is like you're going to the thing when you're playing against shadow rider is when you're playing in pre rotation format, or, excuse we post rotation, you're going to want to try to force them to attack three times for knockouts. So you want to save your you know, maybe your vmax until late or if you do go in with the Vmax, then you want to try to you know, go vmax, v vmax. You know, if you're playing with the Ershfoo and telling how to build, that gets a little bit Saus because they can obviously gust around your you know, your active vis and make the prize exchange really nice for you. But if you're playing with the Ershafu multis build, then you can absolutely employ a strategy where you go in an attack with, you know, maybe it's the Ershfoov, maybe you're swinging for a hundred fifty. That's very viable damage, and then you get a multus and then you find some other attacker. Maybe it's their Shoo v Max. But like...

...you're trying to force them to at least attack three times. They're usually not going to get a knockout on their second turn right, for the most part, right like on their second turn of the game or that they play. That's very early. They would need to get three energy down for energy down, I should say, to knock out and Ershfu v. So it's just not usually going to happen that way. And so if they have to attach to the bench at the abilities right right, so it can just be a little awkward. But the late game potential of the shadow rider deck obviously is where it shines, and so if you can make it out of those first few turns without, you know, taking too much damage against nurse food deck, then you should be in the clear. Yeah, and I think that's I mean that's true in a lot of matchups. I feel like for a shadow rider, like if you scale up into the late game, you are going to be a monster to deal with because you have that you have that draw, you have a ton of energy and play. You're just dealing a crap ton of damage when it kowing be Max is potentially even. Yeah, yeah, and that's where I feel like if we were to like graph the power levels of the of the cards over the course of a game, right, like I feel like Ershifu is very consistent. That's what I was like say as well. It's like a lot. Yeah, yeah, throughout the course of the game, like it can't ever like reach too high, right, you're only going to ever Max out at what hundred eighty damage if you'd like snipe and you have the telescopic site and the the the monkey on the bench and then so that's only that's the most you can do, unless you're playing, I guess, you know, again the multist then you can do one hundred and ninety, but you're not really ramping up for one shots. If you're saying a pretty so that I think about it, that you have a higher theoretical bench damage output and enacting. Yeah, it is really it makes for very strange, you know, very strange lines of play where you actually you're like, Oh man, I want to boss something else up, to knock out, you know, the vmax that I just put to the bench. It's very unusual. But then if you were, if you were maybe to graph the the power level shadow under like it just goes pretty much infinitely up right because you're just getting more and more energy and play. I feel like it's our parabolic to or it starts off a little slow as you like try to get that initial set up and then it like spikes as you get like your second third shadow rider and play. Yeah, like cresting those early couple shadow riders down is really difficult. Well, and it's weird to write because you should, you know, you got twelve outs essentially to getting one fun crystal, your four basics and then for quick balls. So I'd like, theoretically should you know, happen with with regularity right to get out, you know, two, three shadow riders on the first turn and start attaching and building them up. But in practice we saw with the games that I played against Ankas he got maybe one, maybe two out yeah, and you're getting like two of them. Yeah, and and yet, and then you feel pretty pretty happy to get to yeah, I would think tune is like a good turn. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree with you there. I mean I think those are really going to be the big monsters of the format, that you're going to have your rapid strikers, both the Enteli on variant and the Mulch's variant as well. Yeah, thank you for bring that up. You know, another way that dad rapper strike could book to deal with shadow writer as well as just playing like path to the peaks and their untellian versions, kind of stammering that set up a little bit. Sure that's another very viable option, I think that we haven't really seen in lists. I mean, obviously nobody's really playing post rotation, but yeah, you know there is that thing that ersh food x could play paths themselves to try to slow supposing decks down. So yeah, just things to think about and I think we'll get a much clearer sense of the format. You know, it's always like kind of a crapshoot going into the format, especially a new one with new cards and rotating cards. Like it's just kind of gonna be a crab shoot, but we'll get a much clearer picture of what is...

...good at what most importantly is bad after this weekend. What most importantly is bad. Isn't it? Was it? What's good more important? No, no, what's bad is more important. I see. I see, because that's what we're going to be playing for Youtube video exactly. Yes, yes, yes, some other decks that I don't think we'll go as deeply into, but we wanted to give some some praise to. We have the GALACION VMAX is lesie. I felt like kind of an unsung hero for a little bit. People seem a little bit woke to it now, though. I mean the gist of glaze on. If you're unaware, it has an ability where it can't be damaged by vmax that isn't Glacion, so it's kind of like a counter vmax deck. The damage output on it isn't phenomenal. It does one hundred and fifty and thirty s night, but I would say that's like a knough to deal with, like single prizers that they might have tucked into their deck and soften up the bigger guys in the bench right. And that's the thing too. Is like. Remember that when you get a Glacion vmax out, your opponent can attack with their vmax has. So they have to bring up, you know, smaller guys and commit usually more energy to the smaller guys. So it's different from Zombisenta in the sense that it's maybe a little bit easier to power up, in the fact that you have, you know, Frost Moth, if you decide to play it right, you got Melanie. So it's maybe a little bit, I hesitated to say, more consistent, but like on par with consistency, and you're doing a little bit more damage and you're setting up chaos right. So that's the thing that's Amazon to can't do. You can't with Glacion. You can't really build something up on the bench too safely because it can get pained. And then again you're looking at like two payings with that thirty damage, and then most of these are going to die. Do you know the Max I s Coole? You know, two payings, sixty damage on that bench pokemon that you're trying to build up and then you hit it for one hundred and fifty and that's going to be a knockout. Right. That's just not something that is imason to can do. I can't really pre empt future attacks. I also like the glacie on my build played the Intelli online. So I also really like the Italian to ping some damage on the side of the board to kind of supplement Galacions, you know, relatively meager damage output. Yeah, that's a good idea, and I also I like the idea of having the Itali online. That lets you also find stadiums if you opponent does play a path to continue to bump them. Yep, YEP, exactly. So I'm a fan of that for sure. A quick question for you. What are you a bigger glacion stand or a bigger deciduo I stand? I feel like Lacion's just better. I think the problem that I find, or that I would imagine what happen with with the decidual I decks. It's just that they're not going to be consistent enough to get rolling in the you know, early turns, like they should lose to the Ershfoo and telling on decks like without they should just lose to it right because let's say, let's say the Ershfoo deck gets, you know, the rapid flow before you can get into you know, to Decidua. Well then you lose two rouletts like I don't know how you really recover from that. Additionally, you got on, telling, on a lot of pressure on you to write. You Got Italians that are, you know, sniping your guys, setting them up for, you know, doing stuff, you know, get knocked out and and they can do seventy damage themselves. So I just don't see how decidua makes it through a field of Er Schaffu and talion. That said, that said, I do, you know, think that there are you know, if the format ever shifts away from Urshfoo and tellion, then there is some potential for deciduation. But that's why I like the Galacion. I think lacends pretty cool, pretty neat, definitely has some some spicy stuff that you can include in the list for sure. And Yeah, is, I think, just generally the better wall deck, and I think I'll see that going forward. I think lacewn is better...

...poised against the two decks that we had previously talked about as well, although I do think Decidua I has potential, you know, run like a very heavy skyla engine with her field, stadium and the St Relax kind of emulate the Rosa that you're losing. Sure, sure, yeah, definitely. That's definitely last two decks they want to talk about. TURBOS Ashan with and tellyons is been a pretty popular deck and some post rotation events. Honestly, I'm not personally the hugest fan of this deck, but it has seen some success and I think one of the biggest things that has going for it is that it's really flexible in terms of the build like and how much and what you play in it. You know, you just got like your for Josh in and maybe some Zamas, Ventas and telly on, and then the deck is ears to play with. Yeah, any other thoughts you have? They're definitely be yeah, down, yeah, no, for sure. Right. And like I think that that build, the Zash and decks that are like of course they're going to be better when you have, you know, metal weak pokemon. Right. So the Lacion and, I think, more importantly, the ice rider. But I feel like I don't know it just ice rider doesn't I was kind of singing its praises towards the end of this format and I don't necessarily really know what changes all that much, but it doesn't feel like a great deck to be playing next format in ice rider, if you're thinking about it for the full grip series. Like it's not a bad deck by any means. I think it's, you know, in that tier two range, high tier two range, but I just think it struggles a little bit with some of the other decks, you know, shadow ratter and and Ershfu, I think that we mentioned, or than shadow rider. Yeah, between the two, but that's my take on it. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Last step we want to shout out is a new deck from evolving skies as well, and that's three quays of vmax. Honestly, it feels similar in shadow rider in the fact that, like, you have this amazing late game where you draw your whole deck and you can power up ridiculous amounts of energy every turn and deal craft on a damage. I think the the downfall of very quayza, in my opinion, is your your pokemon's powering you up isn't the same as the pokemon that's attacking and drawing you cards. You have two different guys in Riquaza or a shadow rider, as the one guy should the little dudes and ricquays of the flaffi's are very, very susceptible to a attack from a previously mentioned car, GMAC Safford flow. Yeah, definitely. I think that's the biggest hurtle. That the Rick Quais of vmax. That has to overcome, right, because you you think about the car just inherently again, like this is a broken card where you have unlimited damage potential and you got a draw ability. Yeah, you know it, just like it's good. It is a good card, and then you pair with flappy like those. That's a good combination, kind of a tried and true combination. You have that built in consistency. It should be good at some point over the course. Really right, like X, but a better deck. It's Ray X, but you get to like draw cards. Yeah, it's so crazy. It's so crazy. So it is is it's quite the deck, just just on a conceptual level, on a theory level, but then in practice you play against search for decks and you're like, okay, well, I got both my you know sheep knocked out on the second turn of the game and you know, where do I go from here? Because I can't really accelerate into my ray now. Will somebody break it? You know, play a new list. That's that's different, that's unique, possibly and, of course, like you do, awesome, you know right, you have rows. So like maybe there's maybe you just play a huge rose engine. But I think, you know, we've seen Andrew Mahone play his version of the the Ray Quasa deck and he likes to play those very streamlined deck. So, like, I couldn't imagine a more consistent build coming out over...

...the course of the weekend. That could, you know, outspeed the the the Ershfood deck. Yeah, I would agree. I right agree. It definitely seems like a monstrous deck, but we'll just continue to run to that problem. Where or cool snipe off a little sheet boys. I know it's a shame. It's a shame, but that's just the reality of the format right now. I mean we've always had kind of gatekeepers, especially recently. You know, it may have been earlier ATP or Pika Ram and now it's just Ershiafu and there is some fairness. I think there are some strategies that you can use to counters or food things like, you know, things like what's shoot? I my brain is fried. I don't know. My brain is what's the what's the special energy removal card, fan of waves. Yeah, Fan away. You got like fan of waves. You can possibly play to like remove an energy attachment? You Got I don't know, there's no real hand disruption, which is kind of tough, but you know, that's like one that comes to mind off the top of the top of the Dome piece. But it's really like to beat our Shafuo, you have to play like a direct counter to it, or at least not have, you know, those weaknesses of trying to evolve a pokemon on the bench. We hate evolving. Yeah, dude, ate it, ate, yeah, hammers. Yeah, we got ten types saying hammers. You know, same thing as like if you can maybe steal, you know, an energy attachment away from Urshafoo, because those are pretty vital, especially in the Italian build then you can, you can maybe you try to even the even the trade out. So I think we've we've hit on a lot of the the top decks people are thinking about in terms of viability. I also think we kind of went in about in order. That seems appropriate. We hit on a lot of these cards already, but from evolving skies. Is there any additional impactful cards that you want to call out. I think Ryhan is probably the most impactful. It probably does slot right into thirshfood deck or shrew and Italian just because you can search it out. It kind of becomes this stand in for the karate belt that we saw played in the last format, and so I think it's just a natural inclusion. Maybe just asn't one of but the fact that you can just search it out when the turn that you need it is just too good to to ignore. So yeah, I think that's the most obvious one telling on. So broken. Yeah, Super Broken for sure. The problem, though, with that, though, is like because there's no reset stamp right. So if your opponent's taking a knockout, and this is what bothers me a little bit about Ryhan, is that if your opponent's taking a knockout, presumably on your bear, they're taking three prizes and their hands just going to be huge. So if they're playing a decent deck, they should be able to respond to your ry Han, theoretically right. So I don't know, it's just in the Ryehan for game. Very true. Good Point. Didn't even think about winning the game. He gotta try to do that. At least didn't even think about it. So yeah, I'll not that. I now that I know that. You know you can try to ride on to advance the board state enough to win the game. I'll try to keep that in mind. Yeah, you know when I play it, there you hopefully that helps. Yeah, quite the insight, Riley, quite the same. There are a couple other cards, I think. Yeah, if you want to talk about those other ones to yeah, I mean we hit on some of these just by virtue of them being features of some of these decks. You'd mentioned the glary Ardakuno as well, kind of jokingly. Earlier. We're talking about the my last mix up, but obviously being able to accelerate some energy potential inclusion and shadow rider Cali x. We call that out when the car disturce revealed. And then another card that has people excited, maybe a little more niche, is the Meta Chan V, being able to...

...do that Yoga kick and skip your opponent's turn, especially when you have like in tell leans, to kind of manipulate the damage and potentially set those knockouts up. It's definitely valuable. I don't know if it necessarily has an exact place, but I'm sure someone will find it and really awesome used for the card. Yeah, definitely, I mean it. It's like one of those cards, right, you can see the potential, right, because just getting another turn is generally pretty good. Yeah, come on, did try to limit it because you can't use it over and over again? That's true. That's true. I don't know quite how you would do it. I guess you could, like if you're knocking out sobbles or something, right, you get two pings off an Italian and then yoga loop or something. But Yeah, love that. It doesn't do very significant damage and that definitely keeps an incheck to because I feel like the point that you're yoga looping, you know, like that card maybe maybe could have been something that, you know, gave you a bigger advantage earlier. Like I'm just struggling to think of a time where Yoga looping is the only way that you win a game. Right. It seems like a little bit of a wind more card, especially when we have, you know, because you're probably playing that in, you know, an Ursh foo build right where you're sniping a bunch, but we already have snipe modifiers right that we talked about earlier. So, yeah, it just doesn't look like if you take one a year lockout right, like maybe you're going to maybe have like three prizes left and they have like a sobbl and huge resiles on their bench or something. So you like Yavill Snipe Ko the sable and then you double snipe the dressiles or something. Yeah, yeah, and like the the counter argument I'd give to that is like, I don't know, you could just have played better early. That's my counter argument. Yeah, I just would just win for it. I agree. So heading into standard JW, what is your top choice? Well, I I don't know whether it is the top choice, but it is my top choice. I will be playing the Ershfu Multras deck for the full grip up games tournament, unless something catastrophic happens. I do feel like that's the deck that I don't know if it's the best because I would say maybe the Italian build has a little bit more versatility and it's less reliant or it's less impacted by path of the peak, which I think is a, you know, fairly prominent card at this point in the game, but it's the deck that I feel the most comfortable with and the one that I know the best. There you go her she foo multras. You heard it here first, so I think it's time for card of the day. Dude, a totally is all right. So this card is possibly one of the worst cards that do. You already know what I'm going to say. You already know what I'm going to say. It's probably one of the worst cards to have ever won our regional championship. It doesn't really do that much. It's basically a placeholder, but it was the perfect card in my two thousand nineteen raw egg vile plume deck. Not Flashy, in fact extremely ugly artwork. The Full Art Stephen, so Steven says search your deck for a supporter card and a basic energy and reveal them and put them into your hand. Then she'll file your deck afterwards. So you're basically playing a supporter to get another supporter and then, like you get an energy, but like it's it's kind of garbage. But the reason that this card was good was because, of course, in that vioplume deck we were trying to set up an item lock, and so this Stephen functionally provided us just another Stevens resolve in as an essence right, because we could just grab the Steven's resolve, which was the preferred supporter. We...

...slow down our opponent. They can't play trainers, which mots decks relied on. Yeah, we were just looking for the the best supporter for the time, be it Faba, be it Steven's resolve, and and grab it out. So Stephen was kind of that, that guy that you underrated. Yeah, he was that guy for sure, and got the job done. Yeah, it was always fun to Stephen for Stevens Resolve. So busted dude. Stephen was also an another regional winning deck when James Arnold One with the laughers deck. I was just going to say I think it had been in another deck. Yeah, that's that's the one. It was a very similar idea because DECIDUA vileplume was really popular at the time and laugh erus. The whole point of lappers was an operated really well under Decidui, or least that was one of the motivated actors with lappers. So Stephen, of course. You know, even if you don't have your your sycamore in hand at the time, you can always Stephen for one or like the end or you know, the lisander or whatever you needed and get the energy attachment, which was super important for both of the decks in questions. So interesting that, like, even though it is kind of like a very niche, not super powerful card, that it found like very specific use cases. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and it's just interesting that because I feel like there are better cards individually that, you know, haven't come close to the amount of success that Steven has had, and yet steven has just been so important for very specific uses. Exactly exactly. That's an awesome card pick. Good. Yeah, thank you. So let's talk about your later challenge then. So let's go. Let's get into it. I'm excited. For the UNINITIATED, Quick Summary, the gym leaders challenge is a fake format designed by Andrew Mahone. It covers the expanded card pool, no bands at the moment, and you can play one type of Pokemon card. You can play maximum of one of any given card besides basic energy, and there are no rule box pokemon allowed. So no x, has no tag teams, no GX has no VI's, no prisms anything as a rule box breaks a specs, a specs Yep. So the idea is that you're playing kind of a six prize game, you know, head to head but with just exclusively one type of Pokemon, and that means that ev does not count except in normal type decks. Right. So framp yeah, that's the biggest France. That's the the biggest loser of the format. So there's a lot of really creative depths that have come out of the GYM leader challenge format. Jw and I were kind of getting into discussion and ultimately decide that we should just talk to this on the podcast about some of the best types in that format. We came up with kind of a short list in terms of what we think is the real top tier types D and those are not necessarily in order, but those are lightning, water and grass. So definitely some staple types within the game in general and a lot of really powerful cards within each of those. JW, do you want to dive into lightning to start? Sure, so lightning. As I was thinking about this over the week, I've seen a new variant of lightning emerge. Now I had initially thought lightning was pretty midtier. You know, of course you have Zapp those, which is generally good, you got electric maybe flaffy, which are just good cards, and you had like Rye coup and you could build up a huge rye cou and it's a tank and it can go take, you know, multiple prizes. But the way that I've been seeing lightning be built recently has been with the amazing rare rye coup and putting a counter energy on it. If you're behind our prizes, you can all of...

...a sudden do a hundred twenty, do the act of a hundred twenty snipe, which is, you know, usually enough to take two prizes in a lot of cases. So you have that. You of course still have the Zapp those you have maybe Amt Fros and Lux Ray, which can also reach those higher numbers. The the luxury can hit for one hundred sixty, one hundred and eighty if you have a muscle band, and then two hundred and ten if you have muscle band and epower, and then the am Fros just of course, is it's another attacker, but it evolves from, you know, the Flaffe, which I think most x will be playing. So I've been seeing just kind of a newer style of electric and I had seen before, and that's what really excites me about the deck. I had been up till maybe yesterday and I'm still not completely off this train, but I had been solidly on the dark train and I look at dark and lightning as being very similar types. However, lightning has a draw engine that dark doesn't have. Yep, dark can take multiple prizes, right. We were talking about the Ryeku enlightning, but dark has the ghost Lord take those multiple prizes. You can ramp up to over two hundred damage with the wee vile. Now it's depending on what your opponent has, but abilities are just so big in the Jim later challenge format that that we've isle is pretty consistently hitting for, you know, a hundred fifty, two hundred, two hundred and fifty. So you have that one shot for one energy and then you know, you have the Hoopah and the Zapp those those kind of switch in hit and run attackers. So there's a lot of these similarities. But the thing that dark doesn't have is that drawing Jin. The best you can do is goal bat draw too into Crow Bat draw three, right, and those are you have to have those cards in hand and they're only a one time effect and they're not that good look cards. They're not that many cards, right. If it was like play at draw seven like, okay, yeah, we're shipping dark. That's in sad, but you know, play a goal bad to draw to. It's like it's okay, it definitely gets the job done in certain circumstances, but it's not electrode, which is a consistent filled to for, or it's not the use of strike O, which is discard draw for. So that's where I'm at right now. I feel like there's a lot of parallels. Dark has a little bit higher of a damage camp then lightning, but lightning might be just a little bit more consistent in the long run. So that's where I'm at in terms of those two decks. Yeah, I know we weren't really talking about dark, but I just felt like there's too much of a parallel between the two decks. So it's a lightning point. Yeah, lightning. Lightning super good type right now. We also got a couple other types. Riley, why don't you talk about the water deck? Yeah, before we hit on that, I just want to say another thing about lightning is I think one of the big things for it is it's really efficient with its deck space. Right like you have a lot of pokemon that offer utility and then also can either attack or offer something else to your deck. So you have like the flaffy devolves in the amph rose, is super efficient, the amazing error Ryko like sneaks extra prizes, which it just increases the efficiency of the deck, and so she's super streamlined, which I like that a lot. Yeah, water is a very explosive deck. It's very focused on getting out your accelerators, be it a blast toys or a frost moth, and powering up big attackers. We have seen historically. We've seen some like mylodic, amazing rare kayogre builds, which I don't think are horrible, but I think the premier way to play water that we've seen is really just using that frost moth powering up a giant uncapped attacker, which is where it shines the most. Water has a multitude of uncapped attackers available to it where you can keep attaching water energy and doing more damage. You have the Laparus, which has hydropump costs one energy. It does thirty more for every water attached to it. I think it's thirty. It's thirty right,...

...not twenty. Yeah, okay, I'm not going crazy. And then you have the way Lord, which has two hundred hell which is ridiculous, and it also has hydropump and it's forty times so you can do so much damage with the waylord so fast and it's just a huge tank. It's pretty uncommon for Jim leater challenge pokemon to be able to really effectively hit that number, at least consistently. Right. And then water also has really strong support cards and the format for it. So you have things like dive ball and Brooklet Hill to easily search out your pokemon. You have artillery, which draws up to five every turn, which is so good as well. Yeah, like cards like Frost Mooth and Blastois that clear the energy out of your hand, which is the right main thing that clogs your hand right. It's just it's just awesome how how powerful water is, and I think that's really what you're going for, is like an awesome explosive, like these huge turns where you doing tons of damage and have these giant guys in front they just can't be knocked out. So totally it's the absolute beats stick deck of the format. You're just able to ramp up damage so easily and so consistently, and the Nice thing about the water deck is that you have little reliance on like your prizes. Right. I think it's maybe one of the least prize or it's the most prize resilient deck and it has a lot of different routes to do the same or a similar thing. Yeah, exactly, because, like, you know, you got blast Yus, which is obviously your ideal you know, Deluge Pokemon, but then you also have, you know, the frost moth. So like you got you got, you know, a stage two that you're more likely to prize, that's a little bit more powerful, but then you also have a stage one that can get the job done. You got a bunch of different you know, like we were talking about those attackers. I can just ramp up to infinite damage. So, like it just all really works together very nicely, and so consistency is is definitely key. You got the actillery. I mean it's such a good card that has kind of a laundry list of just really good effects that these pokemon can use. So fun fact, water is the most common pokemon type, not assailing the cards but in general generally. Well, we'll see if it's most common in the tournament. There you go. We'll see. Last of our big three here. JW Walk us through grass, grass, the grass. We were talking earlier before the cast just how good the individual cards in grass are. Real a boom, very strong card. It's, you know, unlike the other rain dance Pokemon, just because you get to search it out of your deck. So it's just going to be, you know, not as explosive but maybe, over the course of a long game, more consistent. You have Venus or to just double that you got for energy from your deck for a turn. What's the yeah, disgusting Bro. How can it lose? You Got Shiftrey, which is a solid attacker draws cards for you as well. You got vile plume that can shut down opponents items, and items are extremely important in the in the gym later challenge. So there's a whole host of Stage two pokemon for grass, and I'm even missing a few, but there's a whole host of stage to Pokemon that, like individually, are just very good cards. Now getting them into play as another issue in and of itself, but that's where grass is strength comes from, is those very, very strong stage two's that allow your you know is a rude to do big damage, that allow your skeptile to do big damage. You're shining genoesec to do big damage. And so if you're able to find, you know, a rella boom and a Venosaur, like you're just going to town, you can probably sweep in a lot of cases with with that Combo. Yeah,...

...and the search in grass with a pokemon is so good. You have put you have multiple pokemon that search out other grass pokemon. In addition to having like Turfield to get the evolutions, you have force a giant plants to continue to evolve the Pokemon that you've just searched. So it's definitely a super evolution heavy deck, I think. In contrast to water, though, because you're in a singleton format, every single stage to each piece is a liability that can go into your prizes. So if your endgame Combo is like a shift three, a rella boom and a Venosaur in play, and that's nine individual cards that are bad for you to price. Yeah, and like completely like slow down your gameplay if you prize any of that as well. Yeah, definitely. So it's kind of like high risk ki reward. Right. You have just like all these super good cards, but the risk of prising them is, you know, pretty high. So yeah, I would agree, but I think it's, you know, kind of comparing it to the standard decks. You have that insane power curve. Or if you get to that late game, grass is just ridiculous. You're consistently drawing cards, you're pulling for energy from your deck per turn effectively with your stage two's out. You're got infinite damage ramp on some of your grass pokemon. So certainly the potential is there. It's just super difficult to get all the way there consistently. Yeah, definitely, definitely okay. So we've outlined, you know, lightning and, by extension, dark we've outlined grass, water. What are some other decks that you would figure it at least maybe? You know we we said those as maybe the top decks. What are some other ones that you would figure to at least be in the mix? Yeah, one type that I've really enjoyed actually, and it figures I really enjoy like the the colorless pokemon. So colorless is a very disruptive strategy. You have a lot of Pokmon that you know, kind of work against your opponent. You have your Reggie Giggas, which is just super tanky. You have your Chinchino and your Pujiyoto Line, you have your rang guru and just play a lot of disructive cards and if you manage to like find just the right things, you can kind of prevent your opponent from really effectively playing the game. I think some of these decks that we just talked about, especially though water deck, can be pretty resilient against that kind of strategy. But it's a really fun one to play and it's fun to see like the colorless pokemon band together, you know. Yeah, like the depth is the normies like that, you said earlier, supernoormy. Another type that I think is interesting is is metal, because it's kind of similar in that you have like pretty tanky pokemon. You know, they will try to tank a hit and then like slowly wittle your opponent down, but in more of a damagey way than then a mill stall kind of way, and that's always like a fun strategy to play, right, like the big tanky boy that you move all your energy off of and and Max Potion for Sheryl off of, and consistently. That's a strategy that people enjoy. Yep, definitely, definitely. So what would you would you play colorless, more as an attacking deck more as a like stall deck. Like how are you envisioning colorless more of like a stall deck? You know, you play, you play. Yeah, you set your Reggie Giggis in front you right right in the late game to get more stall cards back. You can importantly loop those guys, because I've seen, I've seen the colorless deck be played with poorrigon. I was just one of your thoughts on that. The poor gun version is cool to write, where you can, you know, get all your special energy into lay and like get really cool tax.

I actually do like that version a lot as well, and it's a it's funny. It's just a completely different take on colors as well, which is one of the fun things about GLC is that you have so many different routes that you can play these types as well. We talked about amazing Ray Kayogre melottic versus, you know, blast toys for water. I think you know powerful colorless energy as well. It's just an awesome addition for the four young day know for sure. For sure great card. It can also abuse things like triple Xel double colorist twin energy a little bit better than some of these other variants. Yeah, definitely. Um. How about fire? Fire, I think is okay. Fire just doesn't excite me in the same way. I think that like water or grass does. And I think waters prevalence also makes it more difficult to justify fire when it does such a similar thing. Like if I'm going to play like a similar kind of accelerate deal, big damage kind of archetype, yeah, might as well play the mirror match instead of the auto law. Right, right. I don't know if you have a similar take, but that's my take. Yeah, now I agree. I think waters kind of rise to prominence and perhaps just as being the benchmark deck of the format, really makes it hard for fire to compete. I think even without the weakness, like, let's just say, we were moved weakness from the equation, I still think the tools that water has are just better overall than what fire has. You know, of course fire you were not relying on a pokemon to acceler energy necessarily. Of course you do have embre if you need it, but you got the blacksmith, you got the welders, so those are some benefits that you have. But on the other hand, there's not a great drawing Jein for fire. You got the Dell Fox, but stage two is in the GLC are not something that you want to rely on necessarily, you know, in every game to have. So I just feels like, you know, okay, with water you got the actillery that's going to come into play, you know, more games than like a Dell Fox would, and so there is salazzle to but that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, you can do Sal Azzle, for sure, I'm sure. I I feel like I haven't seen Salazzle as a card in in the fire decks. Yeah, like be highly played. I could be completely wrong on that, but I feel like I haven't seen that. Like I, at least Andrew, I think, has moved away from the SALASTS. Yeah, but I'm presenting it as an altern yeah, drop option, you know, more comparable to artillery. Yeah, for sure, for sure, you know. And then you compare that with like a macrgo to consistently draw cards. It's just it's still kind of Harkens the same thing for me, though. where. Why am I not just playing a water deck? Yep, maybe that's the wrong train of thought. Maybe don't pruce me wrong. I'm open to that. I think fire pokemon are cool, but well, I think I think Kevin Baxter has been working on a spicy fire list. Well, you know, Kevin Baxter is historically a huge fan of mbore and delphos in the same decks, so that doesn't surprise me in one of counts as well. So he's actually like the perfect guy for this. He's the perfect guy. Absolutely. Kevin backster deck. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Any other type that really jump out of you? Um, I think like we're talking about fighting as being something that seems like okay, like you have just fighting. Is just it's fight guys, right, so you're just doing a lot of damage as efficiently as you can. It's got a couple of Nice you know, stage two's you got Gar Chomp, maybe much champ in there and a few other ones. You got...

...have a nice little m a choke in the middle to for the you do have the night. Yeah, absolutely, and then you have nice search if you can get a car chomp out and you can get the you get to luke car out, then you can search for a car to turn which is, of course nothing to scoff at. So there's some things that go for it some things that are maybe running against it. Is that there's no real surprise factor, like you're generally, for the most part, just swinging in as hard as you can to the active Pokemon, right, and there's no real kind of like spookiness about that. You're generally your attackers are going to be a little bit, you know, meteor in terms of HP, but they're also going to take a lot more to power them up to do the meaningful damage. So you know, there's pros and cons. I just unfortunately, without a solid drawn Jein for fighting, I think it just has to stay in the background. Yeah, for sure, I think. I think the decks that we see mean literally that the decks that we have in the top three have like their own self sustaining kind of engine right where they can either draw cards or search cards or do some sort of function of the game on their own on the board. Yep, Yep. I think that's definitely what separates, you know, the good from the great in this format. So one last type. I want to ask you about it. JW. The fairies, though. The fairies busted so musted. We love. I wish we just had I wish we just had like one more block with them, man, because I feel like there are some cool things that fairy can do, but just ultimately there's just too few car like you just run out of card you just run out of cards, to put it like a weirdly tough that does like sixty like that's yeah, yeah, because that's the best you can do. So I don't know. We have ten types saying that you can do fairy control. Like yeah, maybe you got the you got the floorges that, on a flip, can put a put a card back on the top of your deck. So like that's definitely possible. There's maybe a few other cards for fairy control that could work. You got the you got the Basic Pokemon, or the the stage one, the RABOMBI. That means that your opponent. Do you know this one? Yeah, the one that prevents the gusting. Yeah, yeah, so that could be kind of cool too, but I don't really know where else we go. Not really know where else you go with that. Yeah, well, figured ask. So, JW, we talked about your top pick for standard format. What's your top pick for the GYM leader challenge? Well, I think it's going to be dark because that's what I have the most cards for and that's what I've tested. Like the heck out of. So I'm a little hesitant to like pick up a deck that I haven't really played. So, like darker water, it's probably going to be what I play, but I'm leaving that a little bit open because I have Saturday night to like test with the boys. So Boys, Yep, there you go. Well, you heard it here first. Aw is a man of the darkness. He is a dark gym leader and he's playing Glarian Moltris for his standard deck. That's right, really a man that lives in the darkness. With that? No, I think I think we hit the end of the episode we have. So thank you all so much for listening. If you want to support the podcast or you're really excited about the events that we've been talking about and want more of them, you should choke out full group games, full group Gamescom or full group codescom. You know, they've been a huge partner in the podcast and super excited about these one case. So again, if you want to support them, please do. You can also find us on social media, namely twitter at tag team Pokemon for the podcast or for US individually. We got smiles with frials and real John Walter on twitter. Yeah, absolutely, if...

...you want to check on the podcast being recorded live every single Wednesday, you can do that at twitch dotv slash manner, or when I'm traveling, you can find it on flex. Daddy righteous and yeah, he also does independent streams and they're awesome. That's right. Definitely follow and Riley. This is the end of the season. This is the last episode of the season. Next is week we will be starting a brand new season. That's right. That's right. We're super excited to continue to bring new content and up the game and we'll continue to do that in season four of tag team down great. Thank you, guys all, so much for listening. We appreciate you guys listening and all your continued support. Thank you again. Will catch you next time. Peace. Do You.

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