Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 23 · 2 years ago

2-23. Tabletop Simpulator


The boys are here to share their experiences in the infamous Tabletop Simulator. Don't worry, unlike the rest of your Pokemon Content this isn't a tutorial.

Everybody. Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games for me or podcasting duo. My name is Riley Hulbert, joined by my good friend JW Curry. Wall JW. How's IT hanging? It's hanging pretty well. I got some new blue like glasses, yeah, which my wife is very excited about. There from diff the maker is diff and apparently that's like the Tom's of glasses, because they like they give a pair for every right, and so you you may know, my wife is like a super big craigslister facebook market placer, and so she got these glasses for an insane deal when they normally like retail for like eighty dollars. She's telling me I got him for fifteen, so pretty cool nice. Do you feel the difference, like when you're looking at screens? I do. I had been wearing these blue like glasses, but she said they were ungainly and definitely very orange and they kind of are like you know some well, I don't know, I look like Dr Disrespect or something like that, but yeah, yeah, it's stands. The mustache leans a little bit into the gamers own. I definitely a huge game. If I want to be a Gamer, I wear these and then if I want to be, you know, a an insightful hipster, then I wear these. Do they have like similar levels of efficacy, like, do you feel like they prevent the strain and about equal amounts, or is one better? Orth Um, I would just say that since it like it's a change of color, probably the other one is feels a little bit different because it also like dims a little bit, the orange colored dims. But yeah, yeah, I mean it's fine. I definitely do feel a difference just whether I wear these glasses or the other ones, just knowing that I can look at screens a little bit more safely. Do you do you? Do you like sleep better after looking at screens when you use these? Okay, actually had been before I got the orange glasses, which were like maybe two or three weeks ago, like, I was finding actually I was getting kind of I spasms and then I attributed it, right, because I was looking at a computer screen or something for, you know, most of the day. I attributed it to the blue light from the computer and since getting, you know, a pair of glasses, I haven't noticed the twitch, so I must have been it. Yeah, I've been cured I know I have like trouble falling asleep when I want to be using like my phone without the night shift is a good example. Like if I'm lying in bed just rolling through my phone, if it's I'm if I'm using blue light, then I'm much more likely to stay awake than if I'm on the night shift the right on the IPHONE. So yeah, no, I definitely noticed that too, but I always have used twilight or some other similar APP. Yeah, and I get rid of that basically use flocks on my computer. Yeah, but then I start when I whenever I do like graphic design stuff, you have to tear turn off flux because your your sense of the colors is going to be off to what's actually on the screen. Right. So I ended up just like stop using flush. But it's great, it's a good piece of software, right, for sure. And then emmage sustained effect, right, you know. Yeah, but based on the time of day. Cool. Well, speaking of computers, lately, the the world of online TCG has really been expanding. People have truly for raid into the magical realm that is tabletop simulator. I feel like every day I see another youtuber trying to make a tutorial on how to do this simulator. I don't know what the deal with that is. I guess they're just trying to hop on the trend. Sure, I mean it's still tabletop simulator. You know, takes some getting used to. I feel like once you actually get used to it actually feels like a pretty passable way to play a card game. Yeah, it's okay, it's okay. I think the the kind of onboarding is a little bit difficult for some people. Yeah, but, like you said,... soon as you get used to the mechanics, you kind of see these certain things that, okay, this makes sense because I've already used it in this application, and then if I do it here, then okay, that that you know, I use this already to try to do this effect, but then it's very applicable over here. And so I think just the onboarding is very difficult, but as soon as you get into it, as soon as you get in a flow, it's really nice program yeah, I think that the place where tabletops in falters right now, at least for pokemon cards. I think as a program it actually does its job phenomenally well, but specifically for Pokemon cards, I think we're struggles is with like weird pokemon cards like Marnie that like require this very odd set of actions, like even within like a physical realm, like it's odd. It's a Dumar. It's not a natural thing, definitely isn't. Yeah, I remember playing, you know, when we back when we had physical card tournaments, you know, playing the Marny and you're like you're trying to pick up your deck and maybe you don't pick up the whole deck and then you have cards like flying around. You know, are you like forget to offer your your shark hands and components? You know, it's just all this awkward stuff. Yeah, so like that part I understand. The other area, so, like any weird pokemon card interaction, it's just like very nontraditional like that. Yeah, the other area where I've seen difficulty it's just with like energy specifically, or like things that get attached to pokemon. It's like hard to stack them quite right. It's like it's like an art and you get used to it. Yeah, for sure, I wish someone would, and I've thought about doing this myself. I think I mentioned this last week of like maybe I maybe I just told this to Andrew, but I have thought about just as like a programming exercise to like try and do a MoD for a script. Yeah, I just like I just don't have the time. You know, we were doing the hast a little bit earlier today and I left work really late, so like I really got home about it like twenty minutes ago. Yeah, so, I mean, regardless, I think it's a it's more than passable and I think, you know, that's kind of the foundation right now. We've had so many, so many formats an now our people have done ridiculous stuff to try and do formats before they come to tcgo. You know we do. We do skype sessions, we do like tcg one, which, you know, that's probably my least favorite mechanism, like all this kind of crazy stuff, and I think tabletop Sim is almost seems to be like the final form of that right. Absolutely, absolutely. Now, Riley, from a from a viewer perspective, how do you feel like tabletop simulator, you know, compares to a real game of Pokemon? I mean, obviously it's worse, but how much worse, like a real life game of Pokmon? Yeah, I don't know. I think the most exciting way to watch pokemon is actually just TCGOH, like why? How you have animations and like you could set the movements are very smooth. I think there are notable pros and cons the tabletop simulator. I think overall it's like a worse experience than they know, like a traditional experience, just because, I don't know, maybe that's just like nostalgia, almost like an enjoyment of the physicality of cards. You know, that's that's part of the reason I like card games in general, to be honest, is like the physicality holding cards and moving them around doing stuff with them, for sure. So that being said, I think there's some notable pros and cons. The you lose out on something like the player feeling, I guess, where you have like physical people moving around and interacting with cards. But you gain you gain efficiency, at least in some areas, like shuffling is so streamlined, and that's really the benefit of any online tool is that shuffling is streamlined. which is the most time consuming part of any card game is the shop rolling, especially in love like Pokemon or you shuffle a lot. Yes, not every tcg shuffles as much as pokemon. Pokemon shuffle is an exceptionally large amount of times in a turn. That's right.

So that's right. Having it streamlined is actually really nice, I think, on the whole. Actually, I wasn't sure what I would feel about tabletop simulator like watching it. I think as people have gotten more familiar with it and it's been less painful to like watch them go through interactions, it's got it's gotten at least okay. Like I think the only areas were really falters are like those weird interactions like Marnie and and you know, things like great ball that like they's a little more effort full. I don't know, like it takes more effort to do them. Then maybe I would take to see. But other than that, like I actually do enjoy watching it. That's good. That's good, and you can tell, you know, kind of what the cards are and it's not like hard to read. I guess. I guess that would be for me. The biggest thing is, like I get the comments where it's like hey, could you, you know, turn up the turn up the resolution on the tabletop, but it's like no, that that's about where it is like going to be and you just, you know, it's kind of blurry and things like that. I'm wondering how that is for you. I don't know, like maybe I'm just familiar enough with the cards, but like, yeah, I tell you know, when I'm playing the game in real life, I look at the picture across from me. I don't read every single thing on my oppon its cards every single time. Like I know should know what the card is. Yeah, when we go to world's we play, we look at the picture, you know, right, right. So, like I don't see a problem. Yeah, no, it's definitely interesting. How and I think that speaks to going off on a little tangent. I think that speaks to how a lot of players can get, you know, certain interactions wrong or certain card text wrong, because a lot of it is just this this eyesight, you know, kind of yeah, looking at a card, you see, you identify the picture, you identify the color, the you know, the look of it, and then you go from there, right, and you just Oh, yeah, I assume that this does this or I assume that rice interacts with this and this way, and so, yeah, that's pretty interesting. Yeah, I think maybe that complaint is a little amplified because of the fact that we're working like with new format cards. Sure it's like people might not have that level of familiarity. I think you know, by and large there's not too many like there's actually a decent amount of stuff and darkness ablaze, but there's not a lot of like crazy complicated stuff, and most of the stuff is like heavy hitter stuff that you've probably already seen, like yeah, I like these complicated card I'm sure you agree. Is a turn of this. You know, there's a lot going on there. That's that's a real funny one because I've been doing some table tops over the last couple of weeks with Andrew and that's probably the most like asked question in the chat. is like someone will come in and one of us is playing at turn it this and someone will say in the chat, like what's with your bench, like you're over bench, like I'm like no, no, it can. It can fit up to eight. So No, and we're having a really interesting conversation prior to the gas because we're trying. I was saying, I was musing at the idea of it turn it this and like alternative ways to play, because I was at work today and I was walking to get food and I'm like, you know, I'd watched it because I'd watched your video on Youtube. How like a turn it this is like overhyped slightly and the like. Yeah, man, it has to be like some some way to play turn this. That is no one is seen through the glass, yet her see through the fog and I walking around like man like. Couldn't a turn this just be like an optimal to hit Ko deck versus other big polkes like you know, if you can't get the one hit Ko, the turn is could always guarantee you to AKA, which not every deck can boast that, and like and obviously you can win hit Ko like anything under two hundred and seventy all right. And so I'm like thinking about this and thinking, thinking, like God, I wish there's a way you could heal it and do all this kind of, you know, crazy fun stuff. And you brought up champions festival, and so we look up champions festival. If you don't know Champions Festival is, it's a world's Promo. It's a stadium and if you have a full bench, plus you active Pokemon, then you can heal ten on your board. That's what we knew. The effect kill ten from. He'll ten from all of your poem. Yeah, so that was what we...

...had colloquially know the effective champions festival to be, and this actually ties in like both kind of topics, like wherever you recognize like what the card generally does, as opposed to the words and the complicated nature of a turn, it is. So yeah, so we're like, Oh, maybe we can use that to heal and we look up champions festival and it says if you have six pokemon and play, then you can use it. And if you so, I guess you just can't use it with a turn. It is because you have more than six. I mean you could use it with the turn it is. You just have to hope. We have to have six. Yeah, as you're like that's so bizarre and it's like I doubt they ever thought about that because there wasn't any precedent for a larger bench size ability. There's pressent for like smaller bench size abilities and then there was precedent for like expanding your bench with like sky field, for instance. But then if that was the play, then you would never have champions festival, right. So so who is this bizarre? It's crazy. I really liked learning that though. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. Kind of yeah, hold the new world's collide. Long Story Short, we, I tried to think about a way to play attorney this as were of a tanky to hi Kao deck, and I guess we didn't really find anything fruitful, but it's a good thing to consider. Like yeah, I definitely, you know, I put out that video kind of saying like the counters to a turn it is and why it isn't. You know, maybe a it's not going to be the deck that just absolutely runs over much of the format like it does have. You know, it is a good deck. It is tier one in my opinion, but it's not like the one. You know, it's not the be dif. I think there are a lot of things that can go toetotoe with. But you bring up another point, is like how will we see these lists evolve into the future and what will they what will they look like? I mean we have these really nice baseless Andrew put out a very good base list of eternity is. I think there are a lot of good baseless out there for many of the archetypes that come out of darkness a blaze. But how will we reimagine them as a format goes on. That's really exciting because we have this kind of initial thought and then, you know, you go and test that thought and, you know, modify and change it up and and then we come out with a more developed format. I think that's really now or moving in. It almost feels, it's weird to say, like the set is, what, three weeks, four weeks away from dropping, and it's two weeks from dropping, well, four weeks from being playable, I guess, but like, you know what is playable, you know, at this stage of the game. Yeah, but that's why I'm saying is, like it's interesting. I feel like for this set we have more already in the time, in the short time period, like we have more of a developed idea of what the format will look like in you know, so far, you know, pass beyond what am I trying to say, we have such a good idea of the format before the set even drops, like that we've had for any other format. I feel like I'd say yes. And now. I mean normally, you know, at on present day, we normally be talking about the world's format. Right. Yeah, and I feel like we put a lot of effort into our world testing at least last year and I feel like you, yeah, pretty close, besides the fact that we just didn't know mew two was so good. Well, yeah, it was interesting, though, because we kind of picked a meme. Well, Planet Worlds. Well, it started as a meme and it developed into something much greater and honestly, I still say I'm by that. If, like, if we knew what we were doing with that, we could have definitely done better. Yeah, it's true. It's for sure true. It's for sure it was. It was still a little bit in the meme zone, but it was also like partially informed by all it. We thought that that it was going to look like, which was incorrect because we weren't factoring in the welder decks to the level that we should have. Yeah, absolutely, Non Greens water decks. That is absolutely so. It whatever. You know, bygones be bygones. We're talking about Guardi if you're not familiar, we play guardivoir at world's last year. But what I'm saying is, like, I feel like this tying us together. We had a what we thought was a good sense of what the metal would look like, and it was correct for a large subset of players. There was another subset of...

...players, which completely blew our our minds, basically, about what we thought was realistic impossible for the format. We saw Pidgey, we saw like these welder mewtwo decks that were very straightforward and very strong, obviously one tournament, and then we had like the firebox x, which obviously were a staple for the entire rest of the year. Yeah, so, yeah, I guess what I'm ultimately saying is, don't count your chickens before they hatched, Mr Jw. Well, for sure. And then, I mean you look at at our position to and just being content creators and being a kind of voices and just saying, like, we have to make decisions at certain points, right, so, like you have to make an opinion, you have to develop an opinion at this point. And so, yeah, of course, of course, like I'm always open and I've always said like the early opinions are some of the most fluid, right, in the sense that they can change the most. But I think there are some things, some truths that have developed over the couple weeks that we've been doing tabletop and, you know, just theorizing on the on the new format. I think one of those things is that ATP is still very, very good, and we were talking about like it dominated two formats ago and maybe wasn't as dominant this last format, although still had a very solid position in the metagame. But I think it comes back into prominence because of the lack of one prize attackers like Spearit Tomb and baby blow Cephalon like those are baby blill ceplon still a deck, not saying that you know no one will ever play baby blue cephalon and to an extent I'm sure spear tomb is a thing, but it's very obviously not the same deck that it once was. And so you look at the decline of those two decks and as for me being the reason that ATP just vaults itself into arguably the best deck in the new format. So obviously ATP remains as like a powerful force. It doesn't really lose anything, and the fact of the matter is doing thirty more damage and taking an extra prize when you have Zashan's in your deck is just good. So that all follows logically, makes sense to me. In your experiences there anything that really consistently stands up? I mean I think you can make a case for a turn it is. But the weakness they're in a turn it is is that you're not quite on the same turn clock. Like you can't really guarantee wins in the same way that you can with ATP. The thing with ATP and the eternity this matchup is that you don't even have to knock out in a turn it. You don't even have to hit into an eternity is to win the game. Like you can just you can just dink around the attorney is go after two crow bats and that's the game. And like we were kind of talking about, well, maybe there's a way for a turn it is to you know, not bench as many robats, but then of the point that you're not benching Crow Bats, you're not really getting the damage that you need to get out. So it's the good this kind of tightrope here. It's not to say like that etern it is can't beat ATP, because it certainly can. I think that's the deck that goes toetotoe with it the best in the next format. Yeah, I'm curious what kind of one prize solutions people will come with. I I feel like people always start with these insane one fries decks and we get narrow them down to like consistent masterpiece. I haven't really experimented with one prize, to be honest, in this format. Yeah, I've mostly looked at hern of this is kind of like my kind of deck. You know, fill your band. Sure, you know, travel a lot of I mean it's cool. I mean it reminds me a lot of like a I mean honestly, like as arc deck, like as ORC Sky Field Deck. Yeah, yeah, the light way, not quite the flavor that that's our cat. Sure, sorry, you know, that's just, you know, like best flavor of all time. But you know, it's it Harkens to it at least. You know, it gives you some of that satisfaction of hitting a lot of damage with a large bench, having a wide bench. It's kind of fun, you know, like it is man like when you're like when you're pushing your opponents to both sides, you're like hey,..., can I get a little extra room? I got to put another zigzagoon down, you know. Yeah, and the facts for a zigzagoon makes it better for right. There you go. So you know, it all follows. It all makes sense to me. Definitely. Does you know the other the other deck that I've been really impressed within their early testing has been Decidu I. I think I I knew Decidua I would be good to an extent, but kind of playing it as as the you know, essentially the egg round deck that we all just wrecked regionals with, I think it has a lot of promise. Again, the one problem I would say with it is like it just has a hard time with ATP. You pretty much gotta lays option down, you gotta get, you know, a couple decidual I out and you're not doing enough damage quick enough to like take out the one prize threat that ATP could potentially play. So that to me feels like a deck that if you can figure out attack or some way, some strategy to beat ATP, and that would be for sure like a top tier contender. Yeah, right now probably falls in that to your two category, but it's just something that I've been looking at and saying, you know, this, this could actually work. This does have a lot more viability than maybe I initially thought. I thought it was going to be good, I didn't think it was going to be as good as it turns out it probably will be. Honestly, my initial impressions of decidual I were bad. Yeah, gonna lie. Like the fact it was on a stage too to get this ability when we've had, you know, similar decks on Basic Pokmon to do this and I didn't even like those decks. Right. So you know the shift and dynamic there and I don't really know what's pushing decidual I. That didn't push those other decks when they were quicker and more simple. But you know, I think the format is old as centered itself enough around these multi prize Pokmon that it just makes it an easy contender. You know exactly for sure. So not the kind of decks that I like, though. I just I hate playing this kind of decks, man it. It really sucks when you just hit like a one priser that's plows through before you can do anything. Definitely, man, I totally agree. I don't know, I hate my strategy being like Friday cadd on my opponent not being able to do anything. Well, I know it's simple enough for some decks, including in not every day it works. It works a lot of the time, though. I gotta say, yeah, just like the general strategy is never one that I've liked. You know, it's not so much like like you'll win with it. You'll play it if you if you, you know, felt like it was the best play for the tournament. But right, you wouldn't never default to it. Yeah, I mean the only time I've really liked the deck like that, well, it's when I played the vioplume deck. Yeah, but you really liked that deck though. But yeah, a lot of thinking, you know, I put a lot of time into that deck and like, yeah, it was very methodical and you know, it was also just like such an exceptionally obviously good play that it made sense to well and your and just so listeners know, you're talking about the colloquially named colloquially named whacky smacky, that's correct. Yeah, which is a mill deck, stall deck, focusing around, you know, Reggie Gigas and has A. was it a? I mean it was a what three hundred and three vio plume or something like that. It's three little bit sicker, two hundred and two. Three out two. Oh, three out two, okay, yeah, yeah, three out two, vioplum line, blocking the basics from attacking. So just kind of this wall deck that you could put up anything to respond to your opponents and just eventually mill them out. The SANCHO Villa rings up in chats. Not The shift gears too hard from Bile Pluma stands for villa. Brings up an interesting point. If you're worried about any fighting decks in terms of a turn to this, you know, the only one I've even seen like worth being time at all. It's been like, I don't...

...know, say it. Say it. Do I even say my worm, Bro, what's that? Diving? Given a platform? Bro, say it. I can't. Man, I've died over the Pacimian rabbit hole once and now. Clearly the deck that he's talking about is X. Couldrill, true, true, extra drill. That's more fun, though. Now. Yeah, actually drill the philanx failings. Yeah, no, like, and I was actually a big Pacifian stand like with the deck. First became like a real thing when Kevin Baxter played it to top thirty two. I had worked on that so hard with him heading in. That's what I just didn't play it. So I'm know, I'm with you. Failings, people who like are about that, like I know that. I know the vibes. Right, I'm run with the vibes, but right, JE's there. This kind of decks just the worst. They're pretty bad. I feel so bad to play. Are Pretty late. They're awful, man like. Yeah, I don't know if you would in terms of being worried about any fighting decks. I mean fighting were at least right now, until we have colossal is not a tier one deck at it's simply relegated to being a counter deck solely based on having the weakness on a turn itis. And then again, I mean a turn it is, like we have previously stated, isn't the, you know, catch all best deck in the format. In my opinion, maybe it turns into that. I don't think so. There are a lot of ways that can be countered and some bad matchups that are already kind of showing up in the testing and and so, you know, fighting is only relevant because of turn it is and is relevant and it turn it, this may not be like the best deck that we thought it would be. You know, are crazy, crazy, be dif or something like that. And so, unfortunately, fighting next, I wouldn't worry if it turn it is becomes insane, you know, if some build comes out or we just find that, hey, it turn it, this is actually the best deck after more testing, more reps. you know, you can always include weakness pot are weakness card energy, right, if it's in right into that colorless energy slot. Yeah, so it really isn't that big of it. Like there is a counter that it turn it is has to these fighting decks. And again that's not like a perfect counter, but in the sense that you could always with the energy attachments or not have it on the right pokemon or they could gust around it, but there is that answer that you can play that should help you in a fighting matchup. Yeah, yeah, it's just my kind of logic. It's almost like the same reason I don't like playing the counter ish decks like the Hoopahs and the and inciduise is the same reason I don't like playing he's like weird weakness decks. It's like you're trying to do one thing right and if your opponent as a way around that thing or you don't hit the right matchups, like what's even the point? Yeah, and none of the fighting decks, I don't think our stand enough, stand up well enough on their own to to justify playing them. And it's it Harkens back to pursue me and again, like because if passilian truly wasn't a viable degg when Zark what dominated the entire format, why would now failings be a deck when we're not sure that a turn it is is even the best egg? Right, right, and I mean and you look at failings to like it has less tools, I feel, like them Passimian had in terms of sir counter attackers and counter attackers and things like that. Right, right. So it's really just it's kind of this one track mind that I'm not really seeing having a lot of other good matches outside of like maybe peek around, but obviously we're talking about next format. So lightning isn't a factor either. So yeah, I think you could make an argument for philanx in the kind of the the world's format, of the weird, the lost format, where it's ultraprism to darkness ablaze. You could maybe make a case for failings, but...

...the Leond that beyond that it's hard to say that that that will be much of a factor. has anyone like in chat put any creed into the lost format, the TCG Oh format, for like to two weeks that? Well, I mean there are going to be tournaments run in that format outside of like some grass roots ones. Yeah, grass roots tournaments can interesting. So yeah, I mean that is going to be like the TCGO standard as well for two weeks. I think it'll be fun. I'm really looking forward to Vika volt actually, because that that to me, like Vika volts. I think it's going to have a hard time without something like thunder mountain or something like counter gain, and I think if it has, you know, some way to make it so that you're only attacking for one energy, that's kind of what it needs. If Ka volt still feels like it has a place in the post rotation format. But unfortunately, Losing Thunder Mountain, I think it's too big of a loss for Vika volt to be, you know, to be like a top TI. I again, like a probably a tier two deck, is a vehic Vole in post rotation, but losing out on that one energy attack possibility is huge for that day. Yeah, if only there is a way to attach to energy with single attachment. Man, if only. Can you imagine such a thing? That would just be actually just a broken card. I feel like that should never be printed. That would totally imbalance cards that are yeah, right, right, the Tas, yeah, or if they made something like that, maybe it just goes away after the turn is done, or it's like only limited to certain Pokemon, maybe not the most powerful ones. Yeah, that's they'd have to do something like that, right. Yeah, I think they would have to write to make it a balance card. So anyway, well, we'll get back to the DEV team on that one. You know, I was I was never in tea and DC is inherently broken. I was on team the cards that had DC cost or broken. Yeah, I don't think I was there too. Yeah, I was there too. I was like, I was more of a fan of banning sky field. No, honestly, I mean like, but like seismtoad to I mean you're right. Yeah, you look at seismotoad or like even laser. Like I feel like seismitoad without laser isn't that bad? I mean we look at it here in the future format where you have Veka vol the seven shotting and a turn it is or seven shotting pretty much any other vmax right now. That's Times. Seismtoad was six shot usually. Yeah, six shot generally. Or if I had like a fighting for your belts and like, I mean it. Did you know the math gets a little bit funky and verbank and you know, there's some other factors that you can consider there. But yeah, there's no real good. I guess you could play vitality band and the vehicleles and that lesson. Then you got Ziga. Okay, I digress, but it is a lot easier for sizem story to hit, you know, get cleaner knockouts than it is for beatable rights. Big. Yeah, when I go it comes to DC, my like thought, and I'm sure this was the balance team's thought, was like, you know, it's a good way to bridge attack that's too powerful for one basic energy, a two week for two basic energy. Yeah, and I just think ultimately like they didn't hit that middle ground quite right where the attacks REDC you were just way too good to write to justify not doing it, you know, right from so, you know, maybe one day DC comes back. I was A had a glorious run, right, exactly. Cool. Yeah, well, I think I think now's the time we can open up the floor to any of your questions. If you guys have any questions. We do want to talk about one other thing today. Yeah, of course we did want to talk about our experiences and tabletop simulator with the cubes.

Yes, yes, now, the cubes are something very cool. I haven't actually participate in one. Tonight will be the first time. I'm hoping that, you know, everyone will be cool with me streaming it, because I think I'd like to show how, you know, a cube can work in this format. I other people have streamed it, but it's certainly cubing in real life is like one of the best ways to enjoy pokemon in my personal opinion, because there's a camaraderie to it that, I don't know, you don't really get in any other situation. Like, like everyone, it's lower stakes than a tournament, because I think Camaraderie is there in tournaments. But the problem with tournaments is that not everyone's going to do well. So you know, some people are going to be small te you know some people are going to be, you know, upset or frustrated that they miss played or something like that. But then in a cube it's so low low steaks that everybody is just enjoying pokemon in his purest form, and that is one of the greatest things about cues. Yeah, I love like the drafting phase and like talking trash and all your friends, you know, just flipping your shirt off after like ten consecutive baby flips and flinging it around in the air, something like, something like that. You know, I don't know who would do something crazy like that, but I've enjoyed them. What's cool about tabletop Sim is they are some plugins which, you know, I don't have to make them, like someone else has already made them, where you can like automatically pass the hands around. Yeah, I'm like, building the deck isn't too bad. And I actually I have that experience even before I played the Cube, because I was playing bunny kingdom on tabletops. That okay and like yeah, you know, that's also a drafting game and they had the same like pass the hand around button. Yeah, so you know, I think actually it's systematically works pretty well. As long as you have a group that as a whole understands, they will top them, you know, because one person really control the slowest person in a cube controls the pace of the queue, you know, yes, the entire group. So you know, having everyone in the same page as far as like readiness is is obviously key. But you know, once you get that narrowed down, it's pretty good it's pretty good, dude. It's good. It's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've enjoyed it. And what's cool is, like it's really easy to that dynamically updated cube with any card. Yeah, because, yeah, because that's one of the things too, is like with the fiscal cubes, you know, you might have overpowered cards, but then you're like, well, you know, if I want to play this again and, you know, buff up this typing or buff of this archetype, like, I'm going to have to wait a little while. The like order the cards and you might not have the things that you need on hand. But with a cube and tabletop simulator, just go hey, I want more of this card, clone it, boom, it's there. You know, it's immediately there. That's very cool. Yeah, let's you have really dynamic ability to change things and and alter things and rebalance types, and I like that a lie. It's a it's like a good medium to experiment as well, like, even in a future state where everyone's back to normal, like maybe you're thinking about doing, a cube is a great way to test it out and see if, like, it's balanced or if you need to rethink things. It's they get expensive too, especially for doing older formats? Oh for sure. These cards get really expensive over time. So you don't want to drop money on an archetype. That just doesn't work right. Right, and that's that's also another thing too. is like if you are thinking about getting into cubes, like starting as soon as possible. It would be my would be my advice, because the lawer, you wait, I mean, we're just seeing the card prices go in sanely high, like I never thought, you know, some of these primes would get over ten or fifteen bucks, but here they are, you know, and it's absolutely insane. Some of these literally unplayable cards, like never saw a single tournament play in their entire lifetimes, like, are now skyrocketing. Yeah, likes, I thinks one over a hundred bucks or something like which. One light drag nights over a hundred dollars. Light Dragon night is one hundred dollars more than unbelievable. They're listed.

So you know, this is important ebay trick. If you're everybody bay. The listing price isn't necessarily the value of a card. You want to look at like the recent sales, and so they have sold from anywhere from like a hundred two hundred eighty dollars in the last couple days. Wow, that's crazy, man. And like yeah, and like somebody like Andrews, like he has like for something in his cube, something like that, where he you know, he probably picked them up for ten or fifteen apiece. But just looking at it, like the card prices have gone absolutely insane, like the Primes I've been looking at. I don't know, it's really spurred it on either. I feel like this is almost a weird time to get into it. Yeah, it just seems like new money is coming into the end of the game. Somehow people are like more than home and just want to collect or well, and I also feel like big money is coming into the game. That's I mean, we've had some big movers and shakers in the Pokemon community, but certainly not you know. Oh well, I mean, and maybe this this could be a clueless I am, but so like certainly not like millionaires, which I almost feel like at this point there has to be some guy that just has so much money that he has no idea what to do with. He's literally buying up everything. That's what it feels like, because these cards that shouldn't be as expensive as they are are super boosted in price, like not even just like Oh, I'm noticing a difference, like they're inflating by two, three, four five times what they were worth not even six months ago. Yeah, and that is absolutely absurd. So, yeah, I mean to bring it back to the cube, like, if you want to start a cube with older format cards, either do it in tabletop simulator because, like Riley said, that's a good way to test and figure out like what you actually want to buy. But if you're thinking about doing something, I would just start now, because those old cards are not going to go down anytime soon. I mean there is a bubble, there's bubble speculation. That's a whole nother podcast. There's bubble speculation on the price of cards, but at least for now, for this foreseeable future, they should be and they definitely won't go down to where they were, you know, a year ago or two years ago. So certainly get in now if you if you're interested in making a cube. Yeah, awesome points, and who knows, maybe the investment podcast is coming next. Well, let's stump in a chat questions here. I see a couple already. Guy Kid one to one, asking will blownds be good. Post rotation. Jw Thoughts blonds is fine. Any time that you're looking at a one prize attacker that can one shot anything, I think that has like an inherent amount of value in this form, in a format in terms of like we're just seeing the HP go go to a scale that we've never seen before, but at least there's kind of this check, you know, in some way that we have in our in our baby blue cephalon. And so I wish that it had one more buff. It loses heat factory, it loses primarily the fire crystal. I wish it just had that one or not fire crystal, fiery flint right the fun. I wish it just had that one extra buff, like fiery flint was back, or like even professor's letter, just to give it a little bit more, because right now it doesn't feel like it has enough. You're going to lose to a late game N or like game reset stamp, excuse me, or like a Marni way harder than you did in formats past. And so that is the that is the most concerning thing to me about baby blue cufflon. Awesome deck should be, you know, viable, but it won't sniffed here one without some kind of buff. Yeah, I agree. I think the hardest part is having like a lowhand cost way to get a lot of energy to your hand. You know, the giant Earth is not quite as effective as having a fiery flint, and so the deck is a little bit stifled in its way to get out of the gate,...

...yeah, initially, and then also to keep it going. Yeah, and so it's just it's that's like a major, major loss. Is the flint. Honestly, like every time I played the deck I've loved having Flints in my hands. I love drawing them, I love continuing to draw them, like sure, early, mid late. It's just a good car. So sure, yeah, you know exactly, is it? The deck still has the tools. If you can get energy into the discard, like you still have the waist. Yeah, cycle them over and over. It's just, yeah, I mean for sure, and like Guy Kid says, lucky egg and like spinner for getting energy out. Like spinners good, don't get me wrong, they're but like the best case of spinner is to use it on the second turn. But since you're a lot slower, you're never really using spinner to like it's full effect, like right, like you're not going to get that many spinners as well, like right, like not just not even thinking about like late game not being a good card to draw, like I'd rather draw an energy almost that a spinner. M Yeah, in certain cases for sure. You know, it's just like why am I playing a spinder? But I could just have an end at that point. You know I'm saying this. But, like, you know, the the turn to value. If you're thinking about you know, maybe you go second and just try to get an explosive turn to you know, what are you going to draw? Like three spinners, like okay, right, you know, if you do that, you know you're really freaking plain that one. Well, you're sure. You know you have we have one welder. You drop threes of itters. Yeah, yeah, the late game, the late game with blounts is very different now because you rely solely on your fire crystals to get you those one hit Ko numbers. So you need to have enough fire crystals left in the deck to achieve, you know, against vmax decks to one shots, which isn't always that viable because in the early game, you know you might have the discard one like try to go for a dedne or you maybe have used one in the early game to try to get something set. It just is a lot better in theory than I think it is in practice, and I think we'll see that play out. blounds not dead again, not saying it's like the not saying it's horrible, not saying it's unplayable, just saying it's not as good as it was, which is I mean it's natural, which is pretty obvious, I guess. Yeah, you know, fits in, makes sense. Yeah, merciless. asking any thoughts on a ground with the sturdy ability and sturdy build is another one that I've ever been a fan of just like that. Well, I think you look at a sturdy ability being something that's okay. We saw it with, I think Donphan was the card in like loss under or something. One of the Games changed since then in the fact that we have a lot of decks playing scoop up nets and Zix ACO. Yes, and I was just going to say there's that and then there's also a problem with a ground being not only being a stage to making it just a little bit harder to get out than Don Fan, but also the problem that you don't have a healing mechanic that will heal a hundred and fifty damage a consistently. We had last last change dance potion, right, which is very good for Donphan, because down pin had like a hundred twenty or a hundred thirty health, and so last chance potions filled it all the way to full. So you look at that like, oh, that's a good Combo, like that actually works. But like with Donphan or with Agron, you would need to get a last chance potion and a potion and then, like I'm alone Laana, or like a last chance potion and then a potion, and it just that that extra combo is what's gonna you know, if it wasn't good already, like that extra bit of Combo isn't going to help. What's that? The last chance potion come in? I couldn't tell you, man, I don't know either. I guess I'll look it up here. You can addressed the next question. What is the next question? Or is there not a next question? Oh, celestial storm flush still store. WHO WOULD HAVE NOT? Who would have thought? CYANURA? Sorry, that slush. You'll start with such an underwhelming he said that last chance potion in it. Bro last chance potion, top tier contender. I...

...didn't even know last chance potion has like as to dune bars on it. Did you know that? No, yeah, has to done spars on the sides. Huh, you'll learn something new every day, you sure do. One last question from the Keel in chat. Any thoughts on the UPPAH deck? Does it still like Guzma and is that prevent it from being good? I think you actually have enough switch with the hide energy and the air balloon that it's probably fine. The problem with Hoopa is that the damage output just lacks a little bit. With Zaptos. The reason that's aptos was, you know, very strong and like tier one deck is because the HP was a little less back then. You weren't looking at, you know, Vmax Pokemon, and then you also had the additional damage buff of electric power, and so that's not again. That's not to say like Puppah is bad. I think it is a good card, but I don't think it can be a deck on its own because it's going to need some like additional damage. Now you might maybe there's a way to do like Hoopa plus like sable I or something as like a as, like that backup sweeper, but just doing ninety damage turn after turn isn't gonna isn't going to do it for you, I think in the long run, especially against these massive v Max's. All right, how I would frame it is, you know, Zaptos is a deck had two things that really we're going for it. The first was Goozma, which was ridiculous. Yeah, the second one was it threatened a to hit Ko or a one hit ko on everything pokemon. We're smaller back then. Eighty damage itself was already good and then, you know, taking the next step from that is you threatened that Koh, even a one hit Ko on a lot of pokemon. So I think loose using the losing the guaranteed Gust plus, which obviously hurts any deck with that, that strategy of, you know, pivoting around and doing damage. It's by virtue of pivoting, sure. But then, just like GW said, the the damage output being so threatened buy the electric power not existing for dark types. Nor should it right that. I it's not an archetype that I would pursue. I mean it'll be fine again. It's it feels a lot like a baby bill stuff on deck, like just not quite there. But maybe someone you know Nikiel's bringing up the Larre and you know, maybe that's the maybe that's the state of one dries decks right now. I don't know. Yeah, I mean there's still a lot to a lot to figure out and again this is the exciting time. So we kind of have this framework, framework that's been built, the foundation for the format has been built, a lot of good lists of been coming out and now we get to build upon that and see what what can stand a chance. Yeah, I'm excited to see how everything pans out. Lord knows, we get surprised all the time with how people might approach a format. So I'm excited to see what surprising things come out of this, what developments we get over the next few weeks and what you all from chat come up with. So one they stend. A hearty thanks to everyone in chat today. Want to thank Andrew Mahone and it's will Garcia Griego for the raids. We appreciate all you coming from those channels and we will certainly be catching you all next week. Peace. See You.

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