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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 4, Episode 4 · 1 year ago

4-4. TCG Live, TCG Laugh, TCG Love

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are back and fresh off the official announcement of Pokemon TCG Live!! Come hear some of the details: from the good, the bad to the uncanny valley.

Yo, what is up, guys? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games premier podcasting duo. My name is Riley Holbert and I'm joined by the one, the only, my good, good friend Mr JW Curry. Wall JW, how's it going today? So I'm pretty well, Riley. How are you? I'm doing okay, man. Honestly, I've been a little down the dumps last few days. I don't know why. I was because you lost all the Sarotonine from, yeah, you know, the huge rush of Saratona and it just all trickled away, you know, and I always knew I could have that effect on people. So thank you for thing. It's messed up, but yeah, so you have not been doing well. I would do it okay. It's just you know, sometimes you sometimes you have like a week where you're just kind of like phoning it in all week. I hear you, Bro like you're a hundred. That's where I'm at right now. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate, and Riley and I actually met up this weekend. We were in if you didn't see my twitter post, twitter at Real John Walter on twitter, and Riley is at smiles with Ryles on twitter. Gotta gotta get those. Gotta got to get on those. Gotta get on our early while weas there's someone in there's you've been you've been posting some fire lately. I've been posting some fire lately. So if you're not already on twitter, catch some of the funniest dudes in Pokemon over there. But yeah, post a little picture. We put the finishing touch. I mean it was a business meeting, wasn't it? Riley? It sure was, putting the finishing touches on the reveal of PGCG live. For legal reasons, that's not true, but I do think fair out of people who liked my tweet did think that was true. Yeah, so we're going to come clean. I when I initially posted the Tweet, I was I was because I had no idea, right. I had actually thought that Phcgu live was going to be released over the weekend, like during you know, the whole thing exact the world. Yeah, yeah, so so I put you know, business related being like, you know, Riley and I were going to talk the business of tag team. But yeah, then they released on Monday and we got a you know, we got to kind of like put a little spin on it. So for sure. I mean, let's just jump right into it then. So tcg live is officially announced. We have been brewing on it now for it feels like a couple weeks, I don't know, a month now. As far as like what that actually was, after the code card picture got leaked. With the TCG live I've and it's here. We got the trailer, you know, really running off about a trailer and a website and a press release, and between those things I think we have a good picture of what Tcgli is looking like. J You want to give us like a short and suite? Sure. So tcg live is going to be a new client. There was some debate a while ago when they first released, you know, the name. Would it be a new client? Would it be a rebranding and an upgrade of the old client, Ptcgoh, but we can confirm, of course, that it will be something brand new. Initially it looks to be very much a mobile focused game. It will work on desktop, of course, will work on tablet, but it looks like they've really honed in on trying to corner that online market. So we'll talk a little bit more about what that means. But you will be able to play it on the phone, which is not something that pccgoh could do. You know, legally you could get around it in certain cases with with certain apks and things like that, but now this game is designed to be played on your phone, which is a huge deal. It will play, you know, it will play essentially, you know, the same right, like the no new rules, right, it's the same pokemon stuff time. But besides, there's Times thirty weakness. But other than and of course, of course that is a joke. We on it. Don't want to be spreading any misinformation, Riley, but they made a little little gaff and people have been making fun of it. The Times thirty weakness was seen on Zashi and V which was just kind of just just a little slip up, of course. And Yeah, we'll be functionally the same to you know, playing the game, and all the cards are going to be there from the lost thunder expansion onward,...

...and then they will be adding more playable expansions as we go along. So really looking forward to it. I think one of the biggest things, if I may just throw out some of the things that I'm impressed with one of the biggest things that we absolutely have to touch on as a competitive pokemon trading card game podcast, the addition, long awaited, of a ranked ladder. Yeah, Hiley, what our thoughts? What are some thoughts there? When I when we talked last week about our wish list for TCG live, the number one thing for me was a ranked ladder, being able to actually track your progress in the POKEMON trading card game. and honestly, what kind of baffled me about Tcgo is that they had some sort of concept of like Yelo MMR, because you would get match against better players as you won more games, and you could see even see this in real time when you'd see like a streamer playing a meme deck and then eventually they would just cut down the fits of hell. So we can verify that that is something that existed. So it was bizarre to me that that was there was no sort of ranking system C G. Oh. What I'm really curious about is how the ranking system will manifest like. Obviously will have the ranked mode. I think, honestly, I think it's going to be the primary way most people play tcg live. You know, I think there's a lot of games where you pretty much only play ranked mode and to meet. The trading card game seems like one of those. You know, why would I unless I'm just playing like a mean deck to burn some time, like, you know, why wouldn't I go into rank mode kind of deal? Right? But what I'm really curious about is like how it manifests. Like, you know, what is the ranking system going to be? Is it going to be like an MMR or an Elo kind of system where you just kind of have your number? Is it going to be more like, you know, Harstone, where you have like these ranks that you climb up? Is it going to be like legal legends or some other big popular games where you have like these tears and you don't see your exact Elo but you know like Oh, I am gold or platinum right, as I as far as I know, like I feel like it would be good practice to incorporate some kind of system, and again this is all pure speculation, but some kind of system like meed, you see, has where it is that kind of tiered ranking system until you get to, I believe, the top five hundred, where they give you an individual number, similar, but Harston does to. So I would imagine, I would hope at least you know, because I think a tiered system just generally speaking, is maybe not as fun. Right, you can't go for like number one ranking, which I will be doing, but you know, I would imagine that it's just, you know, general tears until you know the last thousand or last five hundred or two fifty or whatever it and soup being and then kind of building off of that. The next thing I'm curious about is what sort of incentive will there be to be a high rank? You know, will you get some sort of in game reward like a cool sleeve? Will you get CP in the future? You know, what is the what am I fighting for when I'm besides just the pride? Sure, sure, absolutely, it's a it's a bit of a slippery slope, but not unprecedented if they give CP. I mean we've had recently the debate about cheating in online sphere and so obviously I don't believe that they'll be giving out, you know, a world's invite for reaching them number one rank, but something like, you know, one percent of a world's invite or, you know, the equivalent of a League challenge win for, you know, placing rank one or top you know, five hundred or whatever. I could certainly see something like that being incorporated again. It just gets you know, don't expect anything huge, like don't expect an online world championships or anything like that. But yeah, in terms of like will they do official events through the client? You know, I mean they've already done players cups through ptcgoh. So I could see something like, you know, a regional level event being held in ptcg live. Again, pure speculation, but they could do it. I hope they do. I mean, do you have any thoughts on ranked in particular that I didn't already kind of mull over? I mean, ranked was the biggest thing that we all wanted. Honestly, if PTCG live was just ptcgoh with a ranked ladder, I think that would have satisfied like everybody. The fact that they're doing oh, well, they I take that back. It wouldn't have satisfied everybody because not everybody could be satisfied. I would have satisfied the competitive player. The fact that they're making a new client that presumably will be, you know, updated and and well taken care of...

...in a way that ptcg Oh wasn't always. I think is is fantastic now. Yeah, you ask that question about what do you think will get for for climbing the ranked ladder? The Nice thing that I've seen so far from employees at the POKEMON company is that they've been very open to to, you know, dialog with the players. And I mean it's whole. I feel like a lot of the design direction that they went with for this game was built upon that survey that they sent out. However long ago? Do you remember that? I do remember that. Yeah, but that that was that during pandemic? I can't remember, because I know that they've been working on this game since two thousand and eighteen. Sure, but even that. So, sure you can change directions and, you know, change courses and things like that. Like what's the hardest part of the game? has to be like building the engine to play cards right, right, and then you can make a lot of decisions on top of that, for sure, for sure. So, yeah, I feel like the feedback that we've gotten from the POKEMON company, it really just seems like they're they're trying to make an effort, which is very welcomed after many, many long years of silence and very questionable decisions, both competitively and just within the company. After many years of that, we're finally seeing kind of like an incorporation of of, you know, developers or or community outreach people from pokemon or just, you know people that work with Pokemon like that were players at one point that still dialog with the community. There's just a lot of talk going back and forth, a lot of communication, which I really appreciate. So when you ask, do I think that there's going to be something for you know, climbing the ranks, seems possible, or it at least seems like we can. We can lobby for that if it's not, you know, immediately present in the game. What I am very excited about with this game, in you know, tandem with that dialog, is that it can hopefully change for the better and just kind of grow on itself. So I think we will see some growing pains. I think that there will be some things that players aren't excited about when it comes to release, be that, you know, the whole currency system, be that you know how it how it looks or feels or something. But the Nice thing is I think that we're going to be able to know at least have our voices heard in some capacity to potentially enact change in the future. I think that's a it's a very valid point. We've seen a lot of sort of openness from some of the developers and community outreach folks in Pokemon, which it's definitely a huge change of pace. I was definitely excited for the fact that it's now in house. And this is not even a slamm against Irewolf. I just think having no middleman to deal with their just streamline the ability to actually make changes and make the game better. Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's just you're eliminating that that other voice, right. So it just naturally makes sense, like as opposed to playing telephone with another company, Direwolf, you get to just, yeah, tell your coworker right, exactly, exactly. So I think there's so many points that that we could hit on here. We so we talked that. Rank talked about, you know, kind of the the general philosophy going into building this. I did want to talk a little bit about some of the things that people are upset about and I also I have some no, it's just about the game in general. But you know, I think a big contention point for this game has been the currency system or, more than anything, the shift from trading into more of a crafting system. So, for the uninitiated and TCG Oh, obviously you can trade. You kind of use packs as your currency and trade for the cards that you want using packs and TCG live. Instead, when you have excess cards, they get transformed into a new form of currency. I think it's gems or credits or something like that, credits, and you can then trading those credits for cards. So more along the lines of like what you would do in a legends of root EA and a hearthstone and magically adding arena, a very modern way to kind of handle the card game. What is your initial impressions on this change? GW? I think it'll be overall good for the game. I mean, let's step aside from the memes of it's a trading card game. I can't believe that there's no trading in the game. But you know, think about it like this, like it's the game for the trading cards. It's not a game about trading cards right like like it's a game about the trading kind of meaving it.

I mean, yeah, you get the idea right. Is like like trading is not part of the game, right, like it's part of the concept of the cards, like right, as they as a whole, but it's not a part of the actual game, like you're not mid game trading your opponent certain cards from your hand. That's just ridiculous, right. So, like it's cards that create a game that, yeah, based around, based around trading cards anyway. So my initial thoughts about them removing it, I'm skeptical, but only because I don't know quite what the new system will be. Yeah, I'm sure it'll. It will be equitable, or at least a little more equitable than it is now. Like I think right now, if you look at what's that thought too difficult to be more equitable than Kurnel ate. Well, yeah, and that's that's what I that's what I struggle with. Is, like people are very upset, or there's a small minority the people that are very upset, that we're losing trading and we're losing like presumably we're losing a great deal of the pack system. I mean that's going to carry over, but you know, we're going to see certainly a decline in the necessity of packs, right, and I think that's generally a good thing because if you look at how much money you would need to like complete a set or to get, you know, a place out of of the top, you know, four or five viable DEX on release, like you're looking at spending two to three hundred dollars every time a set drops to get those cards on PCG. Oh. So hopefully this new system eliminates, you know, kind of the scalping that happens on release right, like that's a huge thing. It's like on release everybody wants the Ray quises and they're you know, they're a hundred packs e or fifty packs each or whatever like. That's just that's that's kind of absurd and hopefully there's no kind of gouging like like that, you know, by the company in the client. There might be. There might be like a surge price or something, you know, but but, and we're all kind of hoping that it isn't the case. We don't know. Again, pure speculation, but hopefully things are a little more consistent. You know, will know going in, okay, if I want to complete my decks, I'm going to need this many crystals so that I can trade them in for the cards that I need or the many this may coin credits, I should say this many credits. So I hope that that will be a big improvement for us and for the health and financial wellbeing of the players. That's kind of my initial thought. Yeah, it's I think overall it's going to be a good thing. I think you hit on the thing that I wanted to hit on the most, the kind of the ratio, and that the mechanics behind the credit system will really determine how successful it is. Right, like if you if you dust a common and it takes, you know, five thousand of a common to get a meaningful car, then that is awful, right, but if, Ye, you know, if it's a more reasonable number than that seems fine. I I'm curious like how effective it will be. This one thing I've noticed sometimes with like these dust based Games is either if you play a lot, then you can kind of like remain free to play because you'll get a lot of cards like reinjected into yourself just by virtue of playing, which builds up your credit pool to get more cards, but then if you take a break, you have to make a huge investment to get back in because you need to like get those cars injected into you to start with. Sure, granted, that money will now go to Pokemon, it either through the game itself or through packs, I guess, as opposed to, you know, buying your illegal tropical beach from Cuba seller for two hundred dollars. I'm so I'm going in with optimism, with, I think, healthy skepticism for the yeah, for the trading evolution. I guess my hope and I think with a lot of these decisions that they've made they have been for the health of the player and the wellbeing of the player. So I I think. I think we won't. I hope, but I think we won't see too much, too much gouging. I'm certain. I'm very start like I feel very confident in saying this. I don't know anything, but I feel very confident in saying I feel very good. I won't saying I don't know anything. Yes, true, but we won't spend, we won't have to spend two hundred dollars every launch of a new set to get the top tier decks. I feel like that can be said with with some confidence. So you know, yes, you can get the cards that you need in other ways, certainly playing tournaments but those take time. Those take you know, those take like a day...

...or two after release right. You can't get them on release day in the client. So I'm having that a clears some of that up in terms of when you can get cards and how easy it is to get cards. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I just if we can avoid jolty on V situations with a new client for that. Yeah, I will say earlier it has been fascinating watching the tcg Oh economics over the last few days. It's crazy if, for the unaware, Gold Ball or gold quick ball is kind of like a value store in tcgo economics. It's worth like a hundred of the most recent standard pack usually, and that's what you use to trade for other big ticket items. Like they're in terms of gold quick balls, you know, tropical beach is in terms of gold quick balls and goal quick ball has plummeted and value it's got like what, under thirty? It's under forty or something after you get a hundred, like before Monday's announcement. So crazy for just letting them fly. It's so crazy. To that end, I guess, if if you're uninformed and you happen to be storing like a ton of a card on your account. You can only chancefer over for copies of a card and one copy of like a specs and stuff. So do unload your stuff. Yes, yeah, let's talk about that, Riley. What is going to transfer and in what amount? I'm sure a lot of our listeners have probably heard, but just to reiterate, Riley, can you kind of talk about and what's going to transfer? I did want to specifically talk about thoughts on the rollout process. So yeah, sure, or sunset, I guess you call it the nice name for saying like taking them out back and put a bullet through his brain. So the TCO sunset, your council be preserved. You'll be using the same play pokemon account that you do today. I'm assuming the link to like your player idea and everything will just be automatic, because it's literally just pulling from the same database. What you will bring over is all of your cards from black and white on will be preserved. There is currently no plans that were aware of to support legacy. So your heart, cold soul silver stuff will unfortunately disappear in the transition. And once you have that, so you get all your black and white cards up to four copies. So basically up to the playable quantity. So if it's an a speck or prism star, you'll bring one copy. If it is a piece of a v Union, you will bring one of each piece, which is sad for the people who want to play for of Grenninja's right knee, but nevertheless you get one piece and you don't get pretty much anything else. You get some amount of cosmetics and the unopened products. You won't get the products themselves, but up to a cap of products of one hundred and twenty five on open products you will get a reimbursement in terms of in game gems, crystals, crystals. So basically the strategy is to get as many four ofs as you can and to get a hundred and twenty five on open products so you can get your crystals. The the thing with in that that I'll call out is the goofy like unopen things that fall into like your packs, section of your collection don't count. So you can't buy a hundred twenty five of the Pikachu costume collection and it get the gems for it. Sorry, yeah, right, right. So it's a pretty straightforward system and you also won't be getting credit for cards past the fourth, as far as I'm aware. Yeah, those those go into the void. So if you really want to, you know, get something, right, like if you're transferring them past four of, let's just take you know, any any four of card that's not special, not an aspect, not a prison star, where like a four of Car Dousandans. Yeah, if you're switching those over, you're not going to get anything for the extra, for anything above for of if you're in the client, if you're in TCG live and you have for dance already and you get one more Dan that day and gets crushed up into, you know, a credit or, I believe, a coin, actually a coiner credit, and then that you can use to purchase more cards. Right. And and they did actually confirm that the transfer for actress isn't happening.

There was a little bit of confusion because the sunset website said you only transfer the for but then the press release, I just think, was confusingly worded because it used the words transfer and then talked about credits, but it was really just talking about having for copies. Yeah, yeah, because there's a difference, right, because you have four copies or you have more than four copies and you're transferring them right, and then you get credits for more than four copies, which both statements are true, but not necessarily right. You're they're not like related to each other. They're not related, right if you have more than four in TCG live like after you've already transferred, you for with a little bit of my being a little bit of flub on the way they were to the press release. But yeah, yeah, if we got it all cleared up. So thank you, Pokemon, for being so community to True, plus one, plus one, because I would say I would be, I would balled a little bit if we have these people who just have like tenzero copies of a meme card and they get like credits. True. True. Well, that's I mean initially when I saw that, right and I saw the flub and and I was like, Oh man, the people that have been playing, you know, since ptcg Oh started, like are just never going to have to buy a card again. That doesn't seem I mean, they're definitely going to. They're definitely going to be rewarded right, and it's not like, I think pokemon had to kind of meet at the Middle Right where they couldn't alienate all the people that, you know, put effort and time into their accounts, but they also had to say, you know what, you're going to probably have to put some money into this game at some point, or at least we want you to consider putting money into this game at some point. So it seems like a decent middle ground where we're going to keep a lot of things but, you know, get rid of a lot of things as well. Absolutely with that, I think we're hitting the perfect pause point for us to go into our cart of the day. Okay, very good, very good. I have card of the day this week and I always love to shed some light on some of the support pokemon that we're played. I think that, you know, sometimes support pokemon are almost as important as the main pokemon. I mean, you know, to a degree, but they play a very vital role in helping that main archetype be as dominant as it was. And maybe five years ago, now, six years ago, there was the Mega Ray quasa expansion, that are the evolving, no, not of all expensed, roaring roaring sky, roaring skies expansion, and we had some support pokemon that went very well with the with the with the Rick Quas archiect. You remember what some of those were? Riley? Well, we had the Altario, which had delta evolution and would remove weakness, which is huge. We had the bronze on Fan and forces to get the metal energies on of I think those are really the only two. Shaman. That's that car's band man. That's well, not back then. That back then. But we also had one of my favorite pokemon turned pokemon card, Dragon I x. So Dragon idx N had an ability called pull up. When you play this pokemon from your hand to your bench, you may put two basic pokmon from your discard pile into your hand. So what this was really nice for was if your opponent played a parallel city on you or some other kind of bench manipulator or they knock something out, then you could drop your dragon night, pull everything back up and go about your turn, you know, play your Shaman's again and you know, player a classes and things. So Dragon IDX had a really nice gold yeah, the full art, full art. I mean I just really like it. I think it's really classic looking. It's in that evolution's style of card and I think it's one of my favorite dragonite cards. If not my favorite. So you know, I shouted to Dragon Oute, to that dragon night card. Actually, when I first started playing and my first free release tournament, I had played Andrew Dankis in the finals of that tournament to basically see who got extra packs or or something like that. It was a leak challenge after for release to see who got extra packs. Yeah, and I said no to the ID because I wanted to beat him, and then I did beat him and then I got the extra packs and within the extra packs was the Gold Dragon night. Let's go. They all held that over his head for years. Yeah, that's awesome, great looking card. Love it as my card to the day. Awesome. Love it too. And what better time than now to mention the sponsor for this week's episode, and that would...

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...about the avatars a little bit. I mean they they're just a little unnerving, I think, like the kind of shifting back and forth, like did you see them kind of like rocking back and forth, like I just I don't really like. Yeah, when when an Aviat and I mean I understand what they're doing, like this is not a big point of contention for me, but it's just funny to talk about. They just kind of like rock back and forth like they've like they've come to life. But like realist. Realistically, I don't want to know that my avatar like possibly could be living. That's interesting take. I just don't think I need that. Like I don't think I need to know like that the he's he's living, you know, a computer living in a computer? I don't know. Anyway, it's neither here nor there. It looks kind of weird. I don't like that. I thought it was funny that much tailor, when they in one of the clips in the trailers, I'm some guys crow back gets knocked out by its actually had yeah, and when it's Krovact snacked out, he kind of like throws his hands up and he's like no, I kind of like that. It's like it literally courage to get your crow at that. What what if? What if they did like those big over the like what if that's final gameplay footage and they do these big overthetop reactions anytime anything happens? Like, I don't know, I hope so. It's it's weird. I thought that pokemon unite did a really good job with their yeah, I like the avatars. I really like them in unite, which is why when I saw them in tcg oh or TCGL. They were a little bit kind of jarring to me. They're freaky, man, they're for you. Well, it's just kind of interesting because they also kind of made them a like a main feature, like I really try allertize. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like, I don't know, it's kind of it's kind of hard not to talk about them when they actually just did a closeup like hey, you can change your guys, you know, hair color or whatever. Like his hair like looks like it was made of skulpy. Agree. Yeah, that's great. What is your thoughts and kind of like the overall like direction, the Ui and how that how that feels? Um, Hey, don't like it initially. And now I will say that with the caveat that that's not necessarily the final gameplay footage, so I can be hopeful that things will change. But I will echo the sentiments that you said where there's just so much space, like if you look at some of these pictures it it's actually a little confusing to me, you know, because we come out of a client. We come out of a client where there's already a lot of space, right, like Peachcgoh has those big wood panels on the side and it's like they're not even using a third of the screen, and I always thought that that was I kind of understood it, because you're trying to fit like a a square inside a rectangle of it, of a TV or screen or whatever, but there are still so much space left over on that. You look at the Ui here and it's just there's much more space. It's in a different place. It's a little bit more in the center of the screen where they're doing all these animations, which, admittedly, are very cool, but it's just very interesting that you have these cards that, from from just these screenshots, look smaller than they did on Pccgeoh, and that's why I think the mall it's just confuse antality kind of got it, you know, because, yeah, it looks good on mobile. I completely agree. I will also say that it is like mobile. I think this works. This design is great. I would like to see their be a little bit of a difference, though, because I think on the desktop, like you should be able to display the full card and I I personally feel like I should be able to read the card and what it does and everything without needing to like zoom in on it. Yeah, you know. You know, other thing that I wasn't a huge fan of is this is more about user experience necessarily, than like the graphic design. But in TCG Oh, you know, when you click on a card to do an action from it, it pulls the card up and you see the card, it's entirety, and then it off to the side will have the thing that you want to do with it. So like if you want to attack with a as ash and you'll see the wholes ash and card and then it lists the attacks, like ry grave later. He's most most like with Mewtwo, for example, you have like a list of attacks that used roll through, whereas on Tcg live it kind of like just gets in the way of the card. Yeah, covers the car especially for like try Larson stuff. That's like kind of unsatisfying for me. I don't know if you feel the same. Yeah, sure, I agree. I think there's just some things that I think, you know the longer we go on, but I just the biggest complaint that I have is desktop. You know, Mobiles Good Mobile I think we both agree is like that's probably as good of a design as you're going to get at this point. You know, for that game. So our complaints really are just with...

...with what it looks like to take that mobile version and put it on desktop, which I think they just they lose out, like there's just so much space and maybe they're maybe they're actually thinking of the player, like maybe they're thinking of like, Oh, the Damer's head can go right in this big space. But even that it's just like too much. Still. Yeah, right. So, and I will also say, like, you know, tcg Oh had a lot of space, but it felt like more alive, I guess, because it tcg live. You're in this very sterile kind of like computer space, almost like this this matrix e trowny kind of space, whereas and TCG you know, you're sit down at a table, you know you got here, you got your your wooden table, you got your play mat in front of you and said Yeah, you know, it felt like more Homie, I guess. And maybe it's nostalgia speaking, but it felt like more homie at like the TCG Oh set up then like this blank, empty void, and now they're HEX has, they're HEX HEX is a meaningless design decision. In Two thousand and twenty one everything got a hex. Now, oh well, looking like a Katon board at here, Bro Yeah, building roads and stuff. What about the battle pass? What are your thoughts on the battle pass? Battle Past is school. I mean it just makes it like every other you know game right now. Right. I think what we fail to realize is that, you know, pokemon needs to make money off this. You know, certainly if they're going to invest all this money into the game, they gotta get something out of it, and they really haven't gotten a ton out of it to my knowledge of Petecgo, and I think we've seen that in just the lack of improvements to the game. I mean right, they kind of like you might have been like a net loss for them. To be honest, we don't know. Will never know. Again, pure speculation. But like the battle passes, is pokemon saying, okay, this is how we're going to make some money off you guys. Like you know, and I think we just have to kind of recognize that ptcgoh is gone. You know, Peccgo is is kind of a poor business model. Assuming that, you know. Again, this is US assuming that they never made money off of Peachccio, which we don't. You know, there's no reason, I think that they did. So the battle pass seems like a necessary evil in a way, as I think it's evil. I think some I enjoy the battle passes. There there might be some you know, benefit for sure. I don't play too many games to know like what a good battle passes versus a bad battle pass but certainly, like unite, I've considered, you know, hey, maybe shilling out the few extra you know, bucks or whatever to get a get a battle pass too, to get more things quicker. But yeah, I think it's kind of a necessary evil if you look at it from the purely financial perspective. Yeah, I mean I would agree. I'm excited for the battle pass personally just because at least that the rewards are good. I'll be curious to see what the rewards for doing it are. I like doing battle passes, even if they're not great, in the Games that I play a lot, just because it's fun to like progress and get something for it and like contribute back. You know if, for example, in my team fight tactics, I would always get the the ten dollar battle pass just because gave me a little something, something for playing and I gave back to the developers for developing this fore to play game and there's kind of my opinion on the battle paths for tcgl is. Like I am happy to like pay a couple bucks and enjoy the game and maybe get some little dosh out of it. You know. Yeah, completely agree, completely agree. I think the the last thing I really have on my list that I want to make sure we talk about is the roll out of sets. So obviously, like we're starting with only lost thunder and expanded will come in time. A nebulous mean lost under to the current rust. Yeah, only lost under. Actually you can only play lost under deck. Yeah, still lost under. Onward and they're going to roll back over time to black and white. No indication that they'll go earlier than that. Yeah, and I'm inclined to believe they they don't have any plans to at the moment, because that's kind of like, if you think about it, like black and white on it's kind of like the pokemon supported Card Pool, you know, because that's expanded. Yeah, but that's upset a lot of people, you know, like losing legacy, losing those hard coold energies cards that maybe you spent a lot of time and even money like building up. Do you have any thoughts on kind of like the removal of legacy or even just the fact that expanded won't be available right away. Sure, I think the expanded not being available right away is just, you know, it just is what it is for them to get this going. You know, I'm I'm I wouldn't say I'm frustrated by it. I'm a little, like one degree disappointed by it, just because, you know, they're they're rolling out a game where they have a format, but we can't play that format, you...

...know, like a supported format, right like that. A regionals could be in or tournament could be in, right, we're not gonna be able to play that. That's that's fine. That's fine to me. As long as I get standard right, like it and it works like I'm cool with that for the most part. Right. And then ideally it's like within the next six months they can get expanded up and going. What I would like to see and and I am mourning for the people that built up legacy collections because I know how hard that was. There aren't really that many codes going around. You have to go play the game, get the locked packs, open those packs to complete your sets and there's no real trading of any of those, you know, legacy cards. So I do feel for the players that had a big legacy collection built up. That's just not a supported format, unfortunately for Pokemon. So there's no real need to poured over the legacy cards. So again, from a financial standpoint, that just is what it is. I do hope at some point that if they don't give like free if they don't give out those legacy cards in some capacity or like put them into the game, I hope what they eventually are able to do is code in the for world championship decks dating back to, you know, two thousand and four so that at the very least people can get taste of what these cards were in the past and, you know, be able to play some old matchups. Is that a perfect answer? No. Is that the best answer? Maybe not, but it would be kind of cool to see some support for, you know, these legacy formats. If not you know, coding all of the cards ever created, maybe just coding, you know, one year at a time, they code in, you know, for decks that can only be played against each other right from each of the world championships. I think that might be a decent compromise. But again, who's to say that it's even worth it for them to do it, and I doubt will ever see that. So yeah, I think we're going to have to wave goodbye to the pre black and white and really, you know, did I don't think legacy had a huge practical purpose. I think one of our chatters hit it while on the head that it almost felt like it was just a compromise too for there to be a purpose to the heart goold soul silver cards from when Tcgo came out. So it's sad to see him go. I do feel for players who enjoyed legacy, but it doesn't surprise me either. I would love for them one day to to kind of like backtrack, you know, maybe progressively over time, like were these older cards and you know, maybe you can only get them with in game currency, like there's no codes or anything, but you can build up these like fun decks from Old Eras. But that is like definitely a nice to have and not a necessary item to make the client successful. Yeah, yeah, completely agree to that end. I was curious if you had a wish list of things that you want to see that we haven't confirmed or that you know aren't happening right away. But one in the future. Well, old cards, you know, that's a that's low on my priority list. I think just a better looking desktop client, like with just less dead space, and I think that will happen, if not just immediately on release, like I think it will happen over over time, that they'll change the look and feel of it more. More wish list items would be like I almost wish that they had a depending on the price of like gems and things. One thing I wish they would have is like a a monthly subscription to have a play set of all the cards. Again, this opens up a little bit of a Pandora's Box, right, because if they, you know, it's like Netflix right started at you know, x amount of dollars and is being hiked up like every year, you know. So there could be that kind of thing. But if, from a from a player standpoint, if I could get all the cards on release of a new set and I just had to pay, you know, five dollars a month, like, I would really heavily consider that just because of how easy and efficient that would be in how much time that would save me. So that would be a big wish list for me. Again, this is assuming that it's going to be kind of cumbersome to some extent to like get all the cards like by transferring gems. You know, you got a transfer, you know, one gem for one card. You got to do that for the entire set or whatever it is. Like we don't know how easy or difficult it will be to exchange those in game currencies. But a subscription base model to get all those cards on release just automatically uploaded to your account seems kind of cool to me it and that would be I think, you know, it's a careful what you wish for type of type of hope, but I think that would be something I would be interested in. I mean that's something I've wanted for years for a TCG Oh is a subscription service. I you hit on one of mine, which was kind of...

...like an improved graphical direction for desktop in particular, and I also wouldn't be surprised if, like by release it's even better than what we saw. I mean they did hit us with the gameplay not final and agree in the trailer. Agree, Yep, keep seeing that gameplay not final can actually mean something sometimes, because the the diamond and Parl trailer is definitely had a major improvements. So true. Yes, absolutely. So it's not just a cop out. It could be room for change in the future. And we've also seen, you know, a big budget movie change based on Kay. Yeah, although that took that made a delay by it amount of time, I believe. Yeah, it's true. So I don't want that. I would rather have it in hand and they work on the my philosophy on this is like I obviously want the graphical direction of desktoc to be better than the trailer, but in my opinion, you can always fix the graphics, you can change the graphics, you can't change the core of what the game is running on nearly as easily, and what we're getting now is hopefully a core that is much more polished than what Tcgo was. I mean, at the end of the day, tcg Oh was a website. You know, is built as a website where you play the game. So I think having a more modern platform is the most important thing first. Yeah, the other wishless item for me, kind of in the vein of being like a modern game, is I want like either a retrievable like realtime game log or API calls that people can make from third parties so think of things like debt trackers or automatic prize checking, things like, you know, being able to build in twitch widgets where you can like cover over cards and get information about them. Like all that stuff is possible because these other card games have really in depth like pools of information that are directly available to developers. I have love for that to happen for for tcg live, and you know, we talked the other a week about things like the objective deck. You could run services like that so much more efficiently if you can like retrieve actual in game information as the game is happening. Oh, for sure, completely agree. Completely agree. So that's my like number one big ticket wish. This item is it's like Apis or our local game log the I almost put as a wish list item as a joke, like not to have the done button be the same for all services, but it actually is different. House. Yes, so that, thank goodness, huge. That is so massive. I mean, how many times have we clicked done on something that we thought was going to just end the ability but instead past our turn? So dumb. Yeah, I'm done. That was that was such an interesting design. So that was a that was a huge pro so I mean, overall criticisms aside, I am very excited for this. I'm really excited for the direction and I'm excited that we have developers who are also excited to be working on it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We've talked to a number of them. Ryan is one of the big ones that, you know, we have kind of a communication with, and it seems like their stoke to make it. You know, pokemon seems excited about it. You know, this has been in the works for a number of years and they've certainly thought about a lot of these decisions that we're kind of, you know, pouring over today. So give you know, give them a lot of credit for coming up with something that should hopefully play well, you know, look great on your phone and and you know that will be the future of the POKEMON trading card game. They listen to us in a lot of ways. Some ways maybe not so much, but overall, I mean I'm very pleased and, like you said, very excited. Can't wait to get my hands on it. I mean, with that, I think that's a perfect stopping point for this week's episode. Jever, you have any final thoughts for us? No, no, I don't. I just see you on the ladder. See on the ranks ladder. I watch out for rank one and two ordered bed true Pokemon TCG live. So with that will wrap up this week's episode. Make sure to check us out on social media. Smiles, the frials and Real John Walter on twitter, as well as the podcast twitter at tag team Pokmon. And if you want to catch us live every single week, you can catch us on one of mine or JW's twitch channels. Usually on mine, but if I'm on trip or something, JW takes the reins. So that's TWITCHEDTV monner and twitchtv Flex Daddy righteous and of course, as always, rate and review if you liked it or ff feedback. Absolutely I think we've had a great stopping point here.

I appreciate the listenership from all of you and we will catch you all next time. Pace see you.

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