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Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast
Tag Team Pokemon TCG Podcast

Season 2, Episode 26 · 2 years ago

2-26. Vika No Bulu

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The boys are ready to sit down and lay out the path to winning the Pog Championships. Come check out the best decks and figure out whether it's better to go first or second (how often is THIS a debate?!).

Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome back to tag team, the POKEMON trading card games for me, or podcasting duo. My name is Riley Houlbert, joined by my good friend JW crew. All, JW, how's it going today? It's going very well, Riley. How are you? Man? I am doing great. I gotta say, What's new that you're doing great, and I mean nothing, you know, just thriving. I was listening to I don't remember what it was, I was watching a video the other day and this guy was talking about like working out and his mentality around it. And this is this is going to be some crazy motivational thing, but he was thinking, like your mindset around it shouldn't be like, Oh, I want to achieve this body type or I want to like lose x amount of weight. It should be like, Oh, you know, I respect and love myself and like I want to do that for myself, you know, like an active like self love and self care. So yeah, I've been trying to like put myself in that mindset over the last week and like so when I whenever I clean my apartment or I'm working out, like I'm thinking, like I'm doing this for me and like because I feel better and doing it, sure, and I felt like better and happier as that. So that has helped your mental space. I think so. I mean, you know, obviously it was this. It's just a short amount time, like this could just be an up week for me, you know, but I've been feeling good and I think, you know, your mentality is part of it. At least. I definitely went through. I mean I you know, the mentality thing, like in middle school, like I remember, I used to be very just. This is not life advice for first of all, this is not like I'm not I'm not trying to trying to tell anyone what to do, just full disclosure. But I was, you know, I was just a very like angry and kind of sad child. I don't know, so weird, like ankst for sure, and then I just like one day I was like I could be sad, but then like if I'm choosing to be sad and angry and like I could just be happy, right, and I know honestly. And then that's not any presence. You know, you've have to say it. It's not. That's a fule. Yeah, yeah, and I've struggled with like depression my whole life. I'm on you know, I take medication, like I have my own like mental health care, but it was more so like just readjusting my mindset for like, you know, why am I working out and eating well and doing all these things? Well, it's not so much because I want to be an Adonis, which I you know, I obviously I do have like a goal body type and like all those things, but and you are an Adonis. But like I want to, I want those things for myself because, like, I care about myself and that's where that's like the root of it, and framing it in that way is healthier for you. Yeah, that I've actually never thought of that. Yeah, and it's something that I personally can relate to because I have a lot of like body image issues, and interesting because they fluctuate a lot. Like, you know, one I'll look at myself and I think, Oh, you know, you're pathetic and really skinny and ugly, and then you look hear yourself like later that day you like, Oh, you're like fat and disgusting and ugly, and so like I'm trying to reframe from that mindset. Okay. So, yeah, yeah, that's really profound. Yeah, it is. So, you know, a little life advice splashed into your pokemon content. But yeah, I guess. Yeah, whatever you're doing, do it for you, right, like, do it because you like it and enjoy it. And one thing that I really enjoy is poke on training card game. Me To really tell me that's not the segment of the century. Well, Dude, before we get too deep into it, I was talking with someone this morning and he was telling me that he has been listening since day one to the podcast and he was telling me that when we were just on youtube only, he would download the video, cut the you know, cut the video so is just audio, and then he'd have that as his podcast along too, on the way to work. And so, Alex, if you're listening, just I told you this morning, like love the dedication. So happy that we can make this for you and that you're enjoying all the content with that we produce. And Yeah, that just like May I felt like you should hear that, right. That is that's super cool. So it's it's very cool. We have...

...we're coming up on the end of this, you know season. Yeah, I was thinking about that like just yesterday actually, how we're effectively. You know, we decided last year that we're going to divvy it up in seasons, like marking the competitive seasons. And technically, you know, even though it doesn't really feel like it, we're at the end of the line here for you. quotquot season too. Yeah, pretty wild. I mean season three we get to put that up there. I mean now it's really starting to feel like if it wasn't already a commitment, you know, it's starting to feel like that. It's getting a lot of kind of stuff under our belt. I mean we've done a lot of things and I think we're kind of seeing that to like you're just seeing a lot of other people try to podcast, and not to say that we're like the genesis of it, but we certainly been the most consistent over the course of the last three years and two years, and that's something to be proud of for sure. So just thank you again to the fans. If you guys aren't already plugged into our communities, you can go over to twitch and we're at TWITCHTV monner. That's where we do the podcast live every Wednesday at thirty eastern, and then I am on twitchtv slash flex daddy righteous. And then we have our twitter over a tag team Pokemon podcast, which is a great thing, great resource to follow as well. So very cool. All that said, let's hop into pokemon discussion. We have, you know, the end of the season. So effectively, we would have, you know, all been in London right now. Yeah, we would world wasn't flipped on its head and we would be, you know, frantically trying to figure out the bust for worlds. And so do you feel like, even though, I mean even though we're not in London right now, even though we're not in England, do you feel like the metagame is shifted to a point that it we have kind of seen the cream rise to the top? So it's a little interesting. I don't know if I have a great answer to the initial question, but I'm just kind of thought dumb for a second. Yeah, I'm just I feel like podcasters do that all the time and I'm just going to outright say that I'm going to do this. Okay, straight up. I love it. I love he's gonna go on Tangent. I'm going to let you roll, Riley. So I have, I've noticed, first and foremost, like I just want to call out. So many people have mentioned that, like this is the time when worlds of you happening and how much they miss everyone, and I do feel that to an extent. But I almost didn't even notice that so much time had passed that like now is going to be worlds until other people called it out. Like there wasn't like a pit in my stomach like Oh, I should be a world's right now. It's like I saw other people and it was like wait a second, like it's actually been six months that we've been living like this. But yeah, that's it. That's a complete aside. Do I think the Meta has completely developed? I think it's kind of in a weird spot because there isn't really an official substitute for the World Championship. There's not something that the communities fully unified on and behind. That being said, I think the largest subset of that is going to be that pog championship right and we have mentioned in passing a couple times in the cast. It's got a pretty large player base. I was checking in the discord today. There's like seventeen hundred people in there or something. Maybe it's over two thousand, I don't it depends on how they do. The numbers on discord was like five hundred offline and like one seventeen hundred was the second number. I don't know if that was total or offline. So it's either it's in the ball park of seventy hundred two thousand. That's a lot of people. That is and you know, mad props to that as gaming folks who are who are working on that. Do I think that the Meta has progressed to that end game? I want to say no, to be honest, and the reason I say that is twofold. So it world's we saw the Meta progress pretty far, but even then it's still didn't reach the end game. I don't think of that format. We got close, like...

...we got a lot of the archetypes were there, but the list weren't there. And that's like the best players in the world labbing for you know, some of them were labbing for less time than others, but still, like over the course of multiple months. That was the culmination of the best players in the world absolutely focused on the one task. I think that there hasn't been as much of a unified effort on that, and that's not because I don't think these tournaments are valid or anything of that nature. I think, you know, you find a lot of players who have lost the motivation or seeing some steps out or, you know, maybe only started testing once tcgoh became available. You don't you don't see that fervor where you're bringing proxies to locals just because you can. Yeah, you know, like her, you have you have tabletop simulator. That's an option. You have like tcg one. Is options, but it's not the same right. You know, you can't really achieve that same level of like enthusiasm through a whole community in that way, unfortunately, and so I don't think it's really possible, because if we can't get to the end game of a Meta when we have literally everyone in the world like labbing for the post rotation format, and also the fact that it's pre rotation, I think also has an element to it as well. We're sure of substance. Community that are working on post rotation don't really care about pre rotation, and then yet people who are playing in Pog you like, want to do pre rotation while it's available. So that's like that's another factor in whereas with world's last year, for example, everyone is ready for rotation, even if you were in world's, like you were thinking about rotations and rotation decks. So, yeah, everyone in the world, they're all playing these decks, are all butt their heads together and we still couldn't get to the end game of the format completely. Yeah, yeah, so I don't if it's not possible for world's last year, I don't see how it could be possible for the world's format this year. Yeah, especially when you factor in that, you know, we're not even talking about the best players in the world necessarily. Like the day one is just literally anyone that wants to play, and that's not a you know, slight on anyone, but it's like certainly they're the quality of the average player is going to be lower than it would be at world's anyway. So that's an interesting thing to think about. Is like a day one Meta vers the day too met and how you know you have that at world's where it's kind of like, okay, what do I think people are going to play in day one, and then will they switch and day too, and you know, there's a lot of questions. I go along with that, but even more so now the day one Meta could be completely different from a day to Meta just because the vast amount of people that are trying to qualify for day two that don't, I mean that they don't necessarily have to have any you know, any accomplishment. You know. Right, that's that's cool and and kind of scary and right. And I think the way that you mean to phrase, I mean, I don't think you're phrasing it wrong, but I think the way you want trying to portray this is it's not really about like the skill level or anything like that. It's more so when you get these concentrated pools of players, it's much easier to understand like what they're thinking and what they're going yeah play, you know, when you get a huge pool of players that anyone can enter, like, you have no idea what the mindsets of those people are. Yeah, right, right, yeah, exactly. That's another great way to phrase what I just so it really opens up all sorts of rabbit holes that you can go down when you thinking of like trying to predict the Meta, and that's like and that's a problem too. I mean we talked about this a lot, but just kind of getting in your own head about, okay, well, you know, here are the top decks and and everyone says the top decks, but then you know, maybe this other deck we're just completely overlooking, and and you know that ends up being the best deck and having the most placements. And I mean yes, like to an extent. You know, any content that you listen to, the people that are producing the content only have so much time to think about and test what they're talking about, and so, like, you can never take anything that anyone says. You know, the best player in the world, though, the worst player in the world, like you can. You can draw positives...

...and negatives, I think, from from anyone that speaks, that creates content, and so you know you're just we're going to there's going to be things that slip through the cracks, because all I mean to say, yeah, so that all being said, that giant preface, let's kind of dive into what our thoughts are going to be. I jotted down a couple of decks that we talked through before the cast. This certainly is not inclusive. We might even think of something in the middle of talking about these decks. Are Like, Oh yeah, we didn't write this down, but obviously this is something you should talk about. But what we have jotted down, starting from the top. We got to talk about return to this. I mean this is the the cover card of the set. It is really the focal point of the darkness ablaze format. Got That Mega Ray feel to it where you're drawing a lot of cards. With your draw to six Pokmon, you got your bench of AIDS. You're doing a little over two hundred forty damage. Yeah, but the thought is there like you're doing thirty for the bench. Yeah. So, JW I, I've been a proponent of a turn it is, for the last few weeks. I really like the deck. I still really like the deck. I'm curious what your thoughts are. Yeah, well, it's definitely the biggest, like go ham deck of if you look at it, it just it's the new thing. It's definitely something that Pokemon has wanted to, you know, make a big thing like that's, you know, very like, a very reasonable reason to play it is that it is the new deck and it is very strong and like. It is something that the testers, you know, when they're creating the cards, said okay, we would like to make this because it's better than what has come before it. You know, in there in there testing in order to get people to buy cards. Okay, another another topic. But yeah, it is very strong and I think one of the biggest things that it has going for it is that is it's Vika volt matchup. And you know, obviously we have to talk about these decks in context of other decks. So we're going to talk about people in more in depth later. But the vehicle volt deck, as it's starting to kind of formulate around this kind of just very straightforward concept. I mean it still has a very bad matchup against e tarnity. I think that's one of like the selling points for me when I'm looking at whether or not I want to play at earn it. Now it doesn't have necessarily great matchups across the board. It can get kind of skunked out by fire sometimes ATP can be a very unconventional matchup, like it feels very close. Yeah, and then you know, there are things like Decidu I which are really, really difficult to beat with a turn ites, and so there's some positives or some negatives. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on a turn this in terms of matchup spread. Yeah, so when I think of a turn it this you know, there's only so many dark pokmon that you can tech and even then there's only so many dark pokmon that actually like do something. You know, when I think of the Choppah pair, neither of them is really that fantastic of a card, to be honest. You know they're fine, yeah, but but they're they're like easily played around or, yeah, don't do enough damage to be in a right I really don't like the the Zaptos whopa that does the ninety. I really don't like that card for multiple reasons, like switching around it is annoying. Attaching a energy to it is annoying. Like the polk is. It's fine, but you know your attachments are so valuable in the turn this deck as well that it just feels kind of ichy to do it. That's besides the point, though. Like the dark Pokemon, you don't have a lot of tools in your box, like really the trick. The only tricks that at turn it this really has at its disposal is potentially Delta Al Gex Shenanigans and potential like Zigzagoon Shenanigans, and outside of that it's a relatively straightforward deck and I think there's nothing wrong with that. We see straight forward decks do fantastically well all the time. But I think that's probably its biggest weakness and that's where you see bad matchups...

...appear. So yeah, go, yeah, you know, going down that list. I think at turn it is does exactly what I thought and wanted it to do really well, where it'll reliably to hit Ko any v Max, potentially one hit Ko and his exagun's and it will reliably one hit Ko anything that's not a v Max, and I think it does that job really, really well. What it doesn't do a good job against is things that can tip price trades against it. So the ATP matchup is closed just because you can one hit Ko. The ATP out of the gates. But yeah, they also can just really tilt the price trade. And we were talking about this right for the cast where you know it feels so bad that you can one hit Ko and ATP on turn to, like before they altered creation. Potentially, I guess it would have to be altered for this to really happen, but like, let's say they altered turn to and you went second or something and U Ko the eternity. Are They UK have the ATP with your turn of this, you know. Yeah, now it's three prizes to six, like you should theoretically, in your brain, be in a good spy there. Yeah, but they and with three hundred forty undamaged pokemon in the act, right, no damage on your board, like you're feeling good. And but there's is always the potentially can go gust Gustin win with two attacks and there's nothing you can do about that. There's nothing you can do to out trade that, unless they bench a second ATP for some reason, which you know that's on that you know you don't have control over that. So right and grand. I still think the matchup is close because of the fact that you can come out of the gates so aggressively, sure, and also like Gust Gust, while also powering up reliably. Is like not something that you can necessarily pull off every game. So the mashups closed. But you know, that's just an example of you know, there's a deck that has a bag of tricks to it, like it gets around price trade, and that is something that turn is can't necessarily handle very well. Yeah, sure, and then the other thing too, that is I mean it's a hindrance. I think, like you're talking about the bag of tricks, is just like the way it has to be constructed, and I feel like the lists that are coming out are pretty strong for eternity's just because you have to, you have to have so many pokemon on your bench. Yet the devote that many slots to all these pokemon that you don't necessarily want, like we're talking about like the hoopos and stuff like. At a certain point outside of the eternity is the crow bats and the Zigzagoon's kind of like okay, well, I guess you know, I got the dark symbol on you. So, yeah, right, you know, and like, I mean, I guess we're toomb or, like, I guess south. You know, people are messing with me out you know. Yeah, and there's just comes a point where it's like, well, I don't really know what to put in and there's nothing that really like extremely aids me in my quest to win the game. But like you have to include so those kind of feel like dead slots to me in a lot of in a lot of scenarios in a way in that they're not as geared toward helping you win. Like sure, sometimes you're just playing HOOPA's down just so that you can fulfill the requirement and they're never going to come into play. And sometimes, like you're benching Crow Bats your only way to draw with the Pokemon just because you need that extra, you know, thirty damage, even though you've played a Crobat earlier in the game. So there's some weird things that come around with the yeah, deck building that just kind of hinder it, where you can't really do anything to spooky like it turn it is just is right. You know, and I think I agree with thing. We got the crow at point more than the Hoopah point, because I don't think it really matters if you have a one prize or in events that doesn't do anything. Yeah, mostly, yeah, sure, sure, but you know, I think we're getting at the same underlying point where the the deck is so straightforward and it is trying to do one thing and it does that thing very well, but when other things like ATP or Decidu I or mill decks that remove energy, like all those things are not playing the game in the same way that you're trying to play the game. Yeah, and when that happens is when it turn its falters. I still think it's very good deck. It can win a lot of matchups...

...just off of like being really aggressive. It's probably the most like most often the most aggressive deck on the second turn of the game, where it's doing you know, between two ten and two seventy reliably on the second turn, assuming you hit your attachments, and there's lots to be said for that. And I think deep decks that do reliably do a lot of damage very quickly tend to be successful. So yeah, you know, yeah, I mean it. Yeah, but it's just interesting. Like it is probably the best Vmax pokemon. I think we would both agree with that. Just like if you look at the card, like the damage potential for how little cost it takes, like the best vmax card that we've that we've seen. But it doesn't have that supporting cast that something like sent to scorch might have, where you know, you could come in with the heat ran and like one shot something, or you know, you can play all these other pokemon. What's had dark welder either? Yeah, no, dark welder, yeah, but you know what I mean, like there's no like this supporting cast, like you just have a turn it. This is pretty much manual attachments unless you want to go some kind of turbo patch route, which probably isn't ideal, and then you're just trying to swing and like hoping that your draws are good enough that you can get out. You know what you need to get out the turn. They should need to get it. There's no real tricks, like you're saying. I largely agree, and so I know, I think we're going to end up hitting the same point over and over if we keep talking about it. Turn. It is, you know, straightforward deck, powerful deck. I still like it like that's yeah, all that's sad, like I still like that to say, like that's not necessary. Yeah, like it's still it's still actually probably my favorite act to play. Yeah, but you know it has flaws and acknowledging those is important. Yeah, so let's go just right down the list then. I think the first deck that you specifically called out with the turn of this is speakable and especially in this pre rotation format. Vehicle has certainly taken the world by storm. You know, getting the acts to electric powers and the Thunder Mountains is certainly a boon. You have been a big proponent of equal for a while now. How are you feeling about that deck. I mean I think it's really good. I'm pretty like, pretty set on just about shipping it. Like it just feels very good against the known decks, aside from eternities, like it should reliably be ATP, it should reliably beat fire, maybe have kind of a if he matchup against Sen to Scorch, depending on how they draw, but it just feels like a deck that doesn't take a ton of band matchups and can even wiggle out of a lot of bad matchups. I've just been loving the deck a lot more now that I've ditched a lot of the the the fat in terms of Mariep and, you know, slumbering forest. It was kind of cool to play with that and I think that like has a place to be played. But when you just make it more of trying to get out that second attack and doing one hundred and ninety, yeah, I ever like them like forest. No, no, for sure, but I think it was I think it was viable, like I think it was like a thing that that should have been discovered and should have been played and like should have been messed around with. But then making the deck be able to stream, you know, one hundred and ninety at the end of the game. You just get to this point that you know your checkmating towards the end of the game and like, yeah, you just get to this point where you almost can't lose when you have like two vehicle bolts on the bench that both have three energy attached and like you're just item locking and you're just waiting to, you know, draw your last bomb us or you're waiting to, you know, get enough damage on the active to do one hundred and ninety two and knock it out. I mean there's just a lot of a lot of bonuses there to playing vehicle volt that it can wiggle its way out of bad matchups. I has some pretty solid matchups again against like ATP and fire, I would say, the two biggest ones, and against, you know, things like mad party, it just is going to destroy, against things like straight exhaustion, it's just going to body. And so it's a deck that I would think a lot of people will gravitate towards because item lock again can get you out of sticky situations. Yeah, I mean item lock historically a...

...fan favorite or fan least favorite, depending on which fan you ask. But yeah, certainly a powerful archetype like historically, item lock for low energy costs has been very good. I don't think that's going to change with the onset of equal one thing I definitely agree with you on is that second attack on vehicle is super good. Actually, I am and it kind of works out really well where you get a poker two off with item lock and then you blow something up, but then also the time that you afforded yourself with the item lock has also set up your future attackers and it all culminates in the fact that you're attacking with a too priser. Yeah, and I think vehicle, honestly, of the decks that we have listed, is one of the decks that feels most impacted by rotation to me. You know, really using electric power, Losing Thunder Mountain. Yeah, no doubt. I like really don't think the deck works without electric power. Yea, you know, it just and that's yeah, that's that's pretty obvious. The just the damage boost and being able to hit the certain numbers is really, really valuable. But v Volt is a deck that I am not going to be shocked if a lot of players play it, because it does have a little bit of room to be spooky. I mean you can play with hammers, you could play it with I mean I think Turbo Patch is pretty much the norm, but you can do it with just a bunch of different things to disrupt. You know, you could play with abs all, you can play it with like Larry and slowbrow if you want to get some poison damage as well. You can play with Gerage, you can play without Geraci. There's a lot of different ways to build it that are all reasonably good and that can all reasonably when you know a high percentage of games. I was playing it before the stream and I just wanted to get ten games in with it before I stream later tonight, and I went one, two, three, four, five, six seven. Yeah, like eight in two or something like that in too, just like, you know, not really even thinking about it, maybe not putting a ton of effort into the list, but just running it, seeing how things things, seeing how things felt again, and it felt great. Yeah, it's a really great deck. I mean one thing I want to specifically call as well is you talked about bag of tricks and you list a bunch of Pokmon. I want to even argue like, compared to a turn, it is Vika old itself. Has More to it than like the entirety of the intern stack, right. Yeah, yeah, like you can just play Vika and like the supporting items, and that already is a more complicated deck than the entire attorney of this deck. Sure that's not run the one of the coolest things that I like about vehicle is that it can utilize gust I think, better than any other deck in the format, and that is just like you can boss's orders up something to stall for a turn like very reliably. You know, there are a lot of to retreat, pokemon or rang Guru Zashin. Those both, you know, just come to mind instantly, and then many others. But you can gust up something and then if you need that extra turn, you know you can usually buy it right where you got stop something that you don't necessarily want to Ko like like in a rang Guru, and just stall it for a turn or two while you get energy built up or while you find the resources that you need, the lecture powers or something, on the next turn to take the big one shot on the threat you know that your opponent has. That's one of the things that I really valued in that there were times where I was playing the deck and I was like, okay, you know, I don't win if they get an attack off. I just need like a turn or two more and just being able to guss up something on the bench, stall it and you can really out maneuver your opponent in a lot of ways. Yeah, I definitely agree with that, and so I don't know if you watched the tricky mchame today, but it happened live against Andrew. Yeah, they're right, right, that I don't lock his powerful man. I mean, what can you say? It's historically been powerful. It's probably going to be powerful for the entirety of its existence in the FUCKMON trading card game. Yeah, you can't sleep on item lock decks. Yeah, I think vehicle is probably in my my top three decks that I would consider for the for the POC championship or any post rotation or pre rotation rather gameplay. At the moment.

It's just so strong and I feel like you really want to take advantage of it while you can, because as so much that it benefits from prerevolution like and not as much as other decks that it's like, you know, it likes to have certain cards. It's like this that really likes to have these cards. You know, it loves the electric owers, the loves the Thunder Mountain, although I would say for people that I think it has the biggest target on its back of the new decks. Like we could talk about it earn itys, but the amount of a tarnityis that I you know, and this is again on the ladder. So like we won't know about what happens, but I think to an extent we can take the results from the ladder and apply them. Well, I would even argue for two hour it's this big. Like yeah, the ladders actually probably a decent representation, especially the people on the ladder right now are probably people who are thinking about playing in tournaments like this. Sure, and so you know, I just haven't seen a lot of a tarnitys on the ladder and I've seen a very sizeable amount of Vika volt and so I would just think that if you're heading into the Atlas Championships, you would want an answer to Vika volts in your deck or to play a deck that can handle vehicle volt or at least have a game plan against it, because you know it just it is something that has been played a lot on the ladder, I've noticed. So this is your glowing endorsement of failings and stone journer. Right. Yes, everyone play fail I will say stone Juner was was kind of good. I'm just personally proud of myself for not forgetting failings his name, for there you go, for like the third time now we've done it. I really am just bad. I don't know why, because I like failings, but it is what it comes down. It comes down to the pressures on remembering failix is damns tough man when the bright lights are on your crumple. It's true, at least when it comes to failings. So, PA couple, fantastic deck. Definitely got a big target. If you're looking to play in any of these pre rotation formats, make sure that you have a way to deal with equal like if you lose immediately to you know, turn one, going second, paralyzing bolt probably should be consider like maybe think about it. Yeah, for sure, although, although I mean it is like it's going to it's going to have a target on his back and I think one of the few ways that you can counter veh bold is just to play a deck like not entirely built to beat it, but like an eternity is deck you know would beat it. So you had to make your deck choice to beat vehicle as opposed to like, I don't think there are any text or anything that you could just slide into something to yeah, I got really a good beat item lock decks. It's usually not tax right. It's more about like, yeah, building and deck choice. That just just throwing that out there. Next up on our list is one that we also specifically called out earlier, and that's the ATP deck. I mean, I feel like we probably don't even need to talk about ATP to too much, in the fact that we already know an ATP does. It does the same thing as always. The actual lists for ATP really aren't being too transformative. Besides navy, including Turbo Patch. I mean, I don't have a lot to add to the ATP discourse besides the fact that is continually powerful. It continues to skew fries traits in his favor. It's going to warp the entirety of the POKEMON metagame for the entirety of its existence in the trading card game, and it's good. Yeah, well said, but yeah, definitely, definitely another deck. I mean, of course, be prepared for it and probably just the deck that you know. It's the known quantity going into this tournament. I mean, I think we're getting a lot of new things that should rise to the top. You know, like firebox, we haven't really seen in past formats. You know, turn it is obviously knew because old obviously knew. So you look at ATP is just kind of being like a comfort pick, a very strong deck still.

Obviously it's something that deaf people will just kind of default too if they haven't tested, I think especially, and you know, they played ATP. Maybe maybe they played ATP to formats ago, maybe they pay played ATP last format and they kind of look to it and say, Hey, you know what, this is still very, very good, very very broken ability and should be one of the best decks for the park championships. Yeah, all right, ATPS was ashly, at least since the addition of the Ostion, has continued to be one of the best decks. That's not going to change. And I think to like you look at it like maybe someone would play combos option, but I think the amount of combos option that will be played and certainly the amount of combos option that will do well, we'll all kind of hinge upon vca volt. That's a deck that truly like needs to have items to function properly. And if Vka volt is this kind of bigger quantity, you know, very sizeable share of the metagame, then that's where a deck like ATPS option just like makes way more sense than something like combos. Oh, you know. So, just saying that that, you know, maybe in the last format we saw ATPS option kind of take up, you know, seven to ten percent of the metagame and like all the the zostion variants were kind of split in this way. I think they'll kind of coalesce more around ATP as opposed to more item heavy builds. Yeah, and I think the ATP is pretty much made it self the prevailing variant in the current format. I'm sorry, I agree with you there. Sure, sure. I think also one of the cool things that you can do with ATP not not to talk too much about it because, well, you know, we all kind of know again the known quantity thing, but you can include like a water attacker and as fire continues to rise. I mean seriously, I don't know, I'm just I just laughing because you said the way you said it. I don't know it was funny, but as fire continues to rise, having that water attack of that splash of water attacker, that was a good pun that's flashable water attacker is less funny now. Okay, well, I ruined it. So having that splash of water attacker is very valuable because it just gives you more matchup coverage and type coverage. Yeah, so we've referenced this deck a lot, though, and I think we got to go into our next one here, which is going to be fire, primarily the sent to scorch deck. So sent scorch been tearing up the ladder a little bit. I I hope you can speak more to this, because I'm either are missing all the streams where sent to scorch does well or I'm just like not playing a good list myself, because for me it just hasn't been performing the way that I feel like other people have had a perform. It just feels like one of these decks that I'm looking at people saying, Oh, yes, sent to scorch is good, like centray scorches, like this top deck, and I'm just kind of shaking my head and questioning that. And so I'd be curious rally just to hear you speak on sent to scorch and what you think the matchup spread is and why you would play sent to scorch over just a welderbox. Sure so, as compared to it like a welder box? HMM. Well, first off I don't in terms of Fire Deckx, I think the baby will cephalon deck is probably the superior one. I just don't think there's any meaningful discussion to be had about Babil Cephalon, like even less so than ATP because it's a less it's a more straightforward deck and it does one thing. It's done the same thing. It's not changing at all. It's continuing to do the same thing. But with regards to sent to Scorch, I I haven't been too impressed when I play it myself, but I feel like it's one of those decks for every time I'm against it, they like immediately get a welder and also some energies to continue to power up and I can't Kayoh it and it gets stronger and it just gets absurd, and so I think part of sent to scorches appeal is that snowballing element to...

...it, where it continues to power itself up more so if you're winning, you win harder over time, and so that that makes the deck feel better, if that makes sense. You know, because like would you when you beat people, like you're really really beating them right, like you know, you're just pounding it like foot on the road, like you're gasping for they're they're not happy about that. So I think that's where like part of the Septim it comes from, is because you have these insane blowout games and they feel incredible and obviously off some close games too, but then you know, if you have a loss after that, you'll remember for the game that you destroyed the person with and got like a million damage on turn three. Yeah, so are you? Are you kind of saying that you think maybe the hyper on sent to Scorch is a little unwarranted? I mean, I think it's fine. Like it. It's got a lot of HP and you know, you can say that about every v Max, but I think that's kind of a saving grace for all of the v Max has. They got a lot of health, so they got time to work with. I think if I was going to play a VMAX, and my goal is to do a lot of damage. I would probably play a turn to this. Yeah, because it's a more consistent I don't know if consistence right or but like it's a reliable strategy. Does the same thing. It's always doing a lot of damage, not really reliant on continuing to find a bunch of fires and attacked our self up and welder and all this stuff. You know, you set up a board with the turn it is and that's your board. You're like, you're swinging, you're good. Yeah, I don't think sentence hours out right bad. I just if I'm going to put a three priors on the board, I want it to be ATP or turn it this. HMM HMM. Yeah, I mean I feel pretty similar inly and and that's why I just haven't thought since scorches anything anything special. I mean you're very reliant on welder, I would argue, more so than then something like firebox, just in the sense that you have less time. You know, if you are putting the the vmax into play, it just I'm surprised. I want to get more reps with the deck and see if it really is something that should be taken seriously, but as of now I would say something like you know, the firebox that I was playing it on stream the other day had some very good results and I liked it a lot. And then all my testing, even like pre PCG o, when we're doing tabletop with Andrew, like, it just wasn't something that I would have ever thought would be good enough. Yeah, and I mean firebox is fine. It's not really a deck that I've ever truly liked very much. I really enjoyed the chars art version like right after worlds, but yeah, like since then I haven't been as much of a fan of playing firebox. It's still good, though, and I'd not and it's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like like maybe the Celon in the fact that like not a lot's changing about it. Fundamentally, is still the same saying Dang Dec that you've been seeing. Man, yeah, for sure first but it does. My logic for senus coach makes sense. Like you know, when you win, you're really blown people out. So like Oh, yeah, this txt in save man. Yeah, I just struggle because, like you have, you know, the numbers just don't work out for me. So let's say you welder on to a sense of scorching to get an attachment like you're only doing one sixty. You know you're not. You're not K owing Crowbat. You're nowhere near K owing an ATP. Well, I think the threat of sense of Scorch is the looming ass spect of it where, yeah, you know, if you know, it's got a lot of health. Got Three hundred twenty of those suckers. And so, yeah, if you fail to knock it out, you know now it's a scarier set the scorch that it was the term before. Yeah, I mean, I guess, like I feel like it's in that kind of I don't know, I feel like that's kind of a thing with most decks, though. I guess most said to Scorch. Here's like,...

I guess race point where it was like a day yells everything immediately. Yeah, most decks get a scarier board if you don't knock them out and sent to scorch just becomes a scarier pokemas that to scorches itself gets scarier, like and it makes myself scarier. You know, it's I feed and do itself right, right and it's kind of exciting that way to you know. I guess, I guess, I don't know. I just play it to you more, your hater don't. Granted, I need more time with it and I need a good list, because either either my list is horrible or it's really not as good as it needs to be. But I'd be I'm really open. Like sent to Scorch is kind of, for me, kind of an unknown factor. I've got my reps in the vehicle, I've got my reps in with ATP, I've got my reps in with eternity, so I've got my reps in with firebox, but I haven't gotten my reps in with sent to scourge and so gotta get your reps that send us God. Get your reps in, man. You know. I gotta do your gotta do your you know, gotta get your hundred Games, said to scourage into be yeah, exactly, exactly. One last dect that I wanted to call out, and I'll preface this by saying if we didn't call it a deck specifically, it's not because we don't think it's viable out right. There's plenty of other decks that are good. There's just kind of, like we said, for like baby Cephalon and firebox, you don't need to call them out too much at this point, like they're known quantities within the realm of the game that we're playing at this point. So things like Peter Ram slightly less so, but dragon pulled, deciduy spiritum decks like. We know what those steps do, we know what how they work and they bought. They are occupying the same niche they always have. But the last thing that I want to hit on is is the mill decks. You know, they disappeared for a little bit there, with the which drag of Pul kind of oppressing them to a certain extent, keeping them down with their sniping constantly, and I think they've really made themselves poised to return. I think they have decent matchups against a lot of the top decks that we've just mentioned. So have you experimented at all with Mil I'll just post that question you. First, I'm not, and the other thing is I haven't seen it played. That's funny. I'm ill. Oh, go ahead, I I was going to say I don't see a lot. It's certainly not like you know, the original Sword Shield set drop right or it was just everywhere and it was really toxic. I don't see it like that, but I have seen it and every time I see it, it feels really icky, you know, for me. Okay, yeah, sure, sure, and you know especially, you know, we talked about these a turn of the decks being straight word. You know, mill really punishes that. You know, they get in there as it's crushing Amers and recycling those suckers. And you know what is it it turned us to do. And I'm right. No, for sure, a turn. It is seems like a sketchy matchup ATP seems bad, though. I mean it was historically not a matchup you'd like to see. Obviously, now that ATP has maybe some ATP list have gone away from having like all the gust that they used to have. You know, you're remembering lists that play. I was talking about. This is actually this morning with someone where is like, you know, the for Pokemon catcher in the for custom cats, like I favor always got. I think that's like my favorite deck of the year. It was that. Yeah, yeah, for sure, it was Super Fun. It was Super Fun, but like there's there's a little less ghost. You know, people are playing like a great catcher and three and from boss's orders or three boss's orders and an eldergoss or some combination of those and you're seeing just a little less gust. So maybe there's more to be said about that matchup now that you know just the wait lists are generally being built, that there is more chance for a mill deck against ATP yeah. Yeah, I certainly think that's one factor there, although I'd also argue. You know, some of these decks are including turbo patches in addition to metal patches. Right, and then you get in this weird place where, yeah, they can't gust as much, but the offset of that is when they do they will can't really be always energy. Yeah, like,...

Yep, usually your end game against his ATPDX is to prevent them from gusting for long enough that you can deny energy. But like that's so difficult now. Yeah, sure, yeah, absolutely, or more difficult. And then you look at other matchups that mill might be on favorite in. I think another one, I mean, is Ka Volt. Like that seems like a very rough matchup. You're not going to be able to get rid of much of their energy, you're not going to be able to disrupt in the ways that you want to disrupt reliably, and so that seems very tough as well for mill. Yeah, but then you know, I your off side of that. It's like people cephalon decks are super good for you. The Santa Scorch decks, I guess, or horrible matchup. So that's the thing. But, like you know, you got your your vehicle bolt start or not very good, but your Attorni this is is good. I think your ATP is probably passable enough that you can play against it, you know, and then a lot of those more niche decks like the peak roms of the world or the spear tombs of the world, of the city eyes of the world like those, aren't going to be able to really handle you very well. Right, right. So, I mean you take a legit spot for it or like, I mean it was general thing. Certainly. Certainly you take very, very good matchups against certain decks and then very kind of scary matchups. Yeah, it's the kind of thing that would benefit more from like a day to thing where you can know the Meta a lot better going in. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's exactly like if you see day one and there's like no vehicle, you know, maybe you can squeak by and like you just like when the coin flips against an ATP and you know prevent them from getting an altar creation off early or something like that, and you just take your chances against like one very bad matchup as opposed to having multiple in day two. Yeah, so I think that's a pretty good perspective on the Meta. We've called him out a couple times now. But some other random decks would be the peak rams of the world, the others Ashe and variants like Luke metal and Combos. Ashan I drag a hold is kind of a thing. That sin ju I kind of a thing. Trying to think what else you call it. You mentioned Salaman's earlier. I hate that card man. I don't know. And then I think you have to mention this deck for for the fans out there, and that's mad party. It's kind of it. Yeah, kind of a thing. I alas, it's not partners. It's not horrible. So so mad party would be something where you probably want to play. I was I was playing this with Danny on stream the other day as well and he played an again of lgx for the Stinger. And now that you have, you know, these three prize Pokmon the idea is just that you Stinger and then you just need to have like two attacks to win the game, and so I thought that was a cool potential. Are you yeah, that's a cool potential. I guess you need one attack because you would need to get like you're losing folk like ahead of time. Yeah, you'll get like wheezing or poke ahead. Yeah, exactly, and and take the take the last prize there. So I don't know, that's something cool. That that I just really admired. Yeah, it's like a combat, a little sure. I mean that party, you can't lie. That party is definitely fun. Yeah, no, for sure, for sure. I can't wait to play it post rotation because I think it'll be in a better position than it is now. Let's talk about the tournament breakdown, though. So we mentioned a lot of decks. GW. In your opinion, one of the top three decks going to be top three decks probably are a TP and lightning. So Vika volt and then Peka Ram. I really think peak ram is going to be a major artill that big. I don't see why it wouldn't be. Yeah, I mean it doesn't really lose anything. Also, like arguably as arguably the best deck of last format. It doesn't have any like super hard counters that I can think of, and it's still, you know, it's very cheap. So for like a day, one metagame like again or these are all these people that literally have no they...

...have no disincentive to do poorly. You know, it's not like you're going to London and you're like spending all this time and you're spending all this money and you're like trying to be correct. You know there's gonna be all these people just like chilling on their couch in their underwear, you know, cheeto stained hands, click in the keyboard and like I'm just gonna one last ride with p Kurram as I know it. So you had to for trade the P Kuran players quite like that. But sure not. Just kidding, just this is like kind of an aside, but do you think that Tcgo prices will play a factor into the Meta Games these tournaments? Oh sure, I mean we were talking about how the ladder could like affect how we are thinking about the metagame as a whole. And just like, I haven't seen a lot of a turny this. You know that. That's the that's the truth of it. Maybe other people that are testing have, but I think, like you look at that kind of deck and it's you know, if crowbats are, let's say conservatively, twenty five packs and a turn it is v Max Hovers around twenty packs and then the V is like ten packs. Then you're looking at playing, you know, fours of each. You know, all of a sudden you have like a like a hundred dollar ptcgo deck, you know, somewhere between fifty and a hundred bucks in codes to get this deck, and that's just not a thing. You know, that's just not doable for a lot of people. Are That's not just not an investment that a lot of people want to make. So for sure, I think. I think that will absolutely be a factor. Yeah, yeah, that's rough. For sure. Yep, Yep. This is kind of same thing with Dragon Ball, all the dragon bold. I think quad its way into the meadow over time, for sure. For sure. It definitely did towards the end game. I think, like you know, you get people that you get more coins or whatever, they can buy the packs from the store. Like the more people do that, they get more locked trade locked ones, but they just get their stuff. You know, from playing the game more, that'll absolutely be a thing. I think after we settle into and, like the code, price will drop. And Yeah, of course the longer we go, the more we should see. But I think, to go to your point, it will absolutely be a factor that they were so expensive to serve out that we shouldn't see a ton of them. Yeah, and the reason I ask that is I would think that a turn it, this would be the most popular deck in a vacuum where if there are no outside factors and everyone just got to play the deck that they wanted to play, you know, and of Communist society or everyone had unlimited access to coins and packs and all that. Yeah, that attorney is would probably be the most popular deck because in my opinion, yeah, I don't know how to frame it now. I haven't really thought about it critically enough, I don't think. Yeah, but if it was up to me, I would say the top of three would be actually the first three decks that we talked about. With turn of this people in ATP yeah, it would price being a factor in the size of the tournament. I kind of agree that Peter on is poised to sure they will steff on as well, maybe like the ground a stuff on, like occupying that fighting for that third spot yeah, yeah, I'm baby we'll ceph on is another one that I just don't it should full. I mean I haven't done a lot of testing. It should full. To Be cobal die, you know, I might. It might be the kind of thing where I'm like overestimating me. Vold and baby will stuffing on right. Yeah, yeah, baby will stuff and obviously being very good against the vmax deck should have a place. I don't know if it'll be a big place. Yeah, so cool. So one last thing we want to talk about. I had a viewer questions and that is the somewhat new debate in the POKEMON trading card game. I was I was going to say like an age old debate, but it's really not, like this is not a relatively new thing in pokemon. Yeah, and that is is it better to go first or second in the POKEMON trading card game? JW. Yeah,...

...we got two minutes to explain. Yeah, this was a too. This was a tweet by Andrew and he basically just said yes, it is better now to go second in pokemon trading card game. And obviously that's not a nuanced opinion. You know, it's definitely like kind of a kind of a opinion that is going for kind of a reaction and it but it, but it is true and he's expanded on a more and just saying that you're going second is more and more viable and going first is less and less the optimal way to play certain DEX and I would totally agree. You look at certain things, like ATP I would argue, Vika volt, that for me do want to go first. But then you look at other things, fire stuff, you know, the sense of scorch and even like, arguably a turn of this like wants to go second. And so I think that's a cool new debate that displays more skill both in deck building and in in game play, and I think that's a great debate. Like, I think that's great for the game that we're even talking about this. Yeah, I I will say I pretty much agree with everything you've outlined. I do think second has really risen up into being generally better circumstantially. Like there's obviously circumstances that factor into whether first or second is better, but I think second, like if you were picking completely blind, second is probably better for most decks at this point. What I want to say outside of that is I think if we ever get to the point we're going second is objectively better with every single deck and it's not a debate, then that is very bad and I think that's actually worse than like a metagame where first is like consider the better turn. And the reason I think so? I think that is because, you know, going first you're very limited in what you can do right now, and second you can do everything, including attack and play supporters. So if that turned that is objectively better, that's very unhealthy because, like you have these people who are trapped essentially in their first turn and can't do anything. You know, it kind of brings you back to these like weird like I don't want to say Donk, but like similar to doc type Metas, where you know a person effectively does not think they'll like attached and pass or something, and you see that happen all the time for people going first now or they can't do that much. And you may be part of it is engines of these decks. But I think if we ever get to the point where second is always objectively better and you everyone who wins the kind of will always choose to go second, then that is not a good thing, right right. Yeah, from a game design perspective. Well said, as the game rules are currently laid out, at least. Sure, sure, and I think I mean fixed to that would just be you can't attack on your first turn, but you can't play a supporter. Oh Yeah, yeah, that and there are, there are, there are problems with that to you know, there are there issues that I think too. But yeah, it's just an interesting thing right now. We're seeing this shift and, like you said, if it ever goes completely towards going second is just going to be better. But I think we have enough, you know, support pokemon where that's never going to be really the case. I can, like you know, said, like I think it's not to the point where it's horrible right now. It's just something. I think that we should think of it well. The other thing too, is that we are seeing, I think generally, and I don't speak for everyone and every deck, but we're I think we're generally seeing a lack of or decrease in Geraci play, and certainly for post rotation like that. That is not something that a lot of players sure play, you know, just decklists are built in a different way and post rotation. I think GERACI is being left out of that conversation there and that seems to me like a great consistency card. That kind of makes up for the lack of a supporter on a first turn. If you're able to get a quick ball off that Geraci, you know, you just get that extra dig get that extra you know, ability to set up in the early game. I...

...mean I just I want to specifically give an example. Even I think expanded has reached that state. You know, bands aside, like ignoring any band potential and expanded. The last time we saw expanded it was in that state. We're going second. Yeah, pretty much just always better, and that was super unhealthy and obviously expands a lot of the get cards that like factor into that, but I think limiting the first turn so heavily and then giving the second turn all the tools in the world is just super icky. Like the first turn any card game should usually be limited to some degree. Yeah, of always be, of course always be gated somehow, but when it's gated to the point that you always choose to go second, and that's really bad because it means you actually aren't really playing the game on your first turn. Yeah, for sure, for sure. I think that's a good. That's a good analysis of what what we have going on. Let's move on to some viewer questions, Riley, where there's some. I think there were some that you highlighted, yeah, in the chat that you want to talk about. Well, they automatically got highlighted by the highlight feature, but very good. But John had posted that he wanted us to talk about expanded actually. So this is a nice little segue. And if shame and should eventually be banned, so with the advent of Scoop upnet, is Shaymin maybe antiquated at this point? Is it no longer have a place in the metagame? What I'll preface this conversation with is that I don't think in a rata will happen and I don't really want Anarada to happen. I think pokemon was intentional and not including x's on that card and I don't think that's going to change. Follows that. Should Sham and be banned. I mean I don't see a reason why it should stay. You after not, even though so much arguing for the band, it's like, why argue against it? Like shame? It enables all sorts of crazy things. It does the same combos. Crowbat feels that niche in a more healthy, sustainable way. And someone in chat earlier had asked as a follow up question, you know, if shame and remains unbanned, should we unbanned HEX and gets us? And I don't think that's the solution. I think if it comes down to bringing you some of the most toxic cars the game has ever seen, all right, or get rid of Shaymin. I would rather get rid of Shaymin and I think to denny and Krabat are just like the healthier evolution of how that draw six pokemon should look, especially in a world where scoop up that exists. Right. So, Rad do you have any more take on the shame and debate? No, no, I think you lined it really, really well. Yeah, Blizzi means ask do you think twin energy is too good for expanded? No, it's. Yeah, it's pretty balance. I think there are enough cards that can I mean here's the thing, right, like DC and then you have you have so many busted cards that it's like to take out some of those busted grants. To put it's what I was when energy like part of the reason the DC is so good and people like it so much and then it was hated and got all this bad name for it. Is because it gives you all that extra deck space to be flexible. So decks like nightmarch, they only want the for dce most of the time, like with special charge, and you know the special charge gives the six, and so that's satisfactory. Like they're only trying to attack couple times just for energy. Potentially give them a boost. And formats, especially where there's a lot of the Nile, sure, but not like so much more that I think it really changes anything. Right. Yeah, I would agree. I don't think that. I don't think that's when energy is necessarily that bad, because you probably wouldn't see it as like an eight count. That's feels just to have one. He's the point. You're right. To have like one tenth of your deck be energy just feels wrong. And then in that capacity right...

...where you're looking at it through the ends of a night march or loss march and then, yeah, it just feels like there are too many other good cards that already facilitate your getting the energy out that you don't need too many more beyond the four. I mean you could maybe run five six, but at a certain point, like you're defeating the purpose of your own deck. Yeah, so, John, as a follow up question, asking you know if how is expanded, get affected overall by a shame and bandwidth control being such a large thing, and I think you can't really look at it like that necessarily, where whereas like yeah, shame and enables fun crazy combos, but shame and also enables really unhealthy things. And ultimately, shame and it's not a balanceable card if you're not going to call out x is in the future. And so, yeah, they could band scoop up net but what's what's the next thing that's going to be broken? With Shayman, you know, of death, we're going to start having to ban all sorts of cards to account for the fact that shame and exists. You know, Trevor No, our gang, our maybic ging, or maybe you might be worth a band anyway, right. But you know, like trevor are is a good example where that's a really toxic combo that's enabled by shame and shame and is what make that deck work. It's a shame in deck that plays a TRAVN are in it, right. So you know, we can't. We can't forever ignore the problem. Element, Ban around shame it like Shamin, is what enables toxic decks, toxic Combo X. very good. All right. Any other questions here? From Chat's horse. She asked how would you guys feel if pokemon made a new bridget card that was allowed to be played on the first turn? I think I would be in favor of that if it worked like how bridget did, where you couldn't use it on, you know, the the major two prizes of the day. Back back then it was x. You could get one X or three basic. So if it worked in a similar way, where you could only get, you know, one V or three Basic Pokemon, that I think I'd be in favor of that. That sounds great. Yeah, I mean I don't know what it I don't know what it necessarily changes. Yeah, but I thinking you reached ultimately a tough point where, you know, evolution deck still probably won't be viable and there's not a la lay in this format till like make bridget work. You know, bridget was really facilitated by laylay's existence. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. I think one last question here, and that's from big D hundred and thirty two. One asking do you guys do coaching? I personally don't coach right now. I'm a little too busy in my my regular career. JW, Do you have any extra coaching slot still? I do. Yeah, I do coaching. Yeah, so reach out to Real John Walter on twitter to shoot him over a DM and he'll get back to you right away with with that coaching. Hey, sad, awesome now, but if you do want, if you do want more information on coaching, I do offer that in in the discord. I have a whole little section devoted to that. So yeah, I'm JW is really good coach. Heard nothing but good things from his clients. This is not me from a biased perspective, this is me hearing this from his actual coach. He's very good. So well, thank you guys again for joining us. This is it feels crazy wrapping up season two. Man. Yeah, I mean out of this week, maybe not next week, probably pretty soon. We're getting in here next week actually. Yeah. Yeah, wow, so I got ideas, though. I've ruined we got. I've been wanting to get in touch with you, Bro. I had to get some no, I have...

...been brewing okay, good. I'm excited to hear what you have to have to bring. I'm I am like, I really want to know where you want to take the cast. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, could be cool. So we got good things in store for you in the future. Thank you all so much for the continued support and listening. If you're looking to play in the pog championship, be sure to check out full grip codescom to get all your tcg Oh needs fulfilled, and we will be catching you, guys, and next time peace. See Him.

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